Estocolmo
Member
What is there for Cameron to pick up? The last 4 movies/tv messed up the franchise!
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Terminator 3 (and possibly all subsequent Terminators) was doomed to suck. Why?
- Thread starter DeaconKnowledge
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What is there for Cameron to pick up? The last 4 movies/tv messed up the franchise!
Ah, googled an article on how that comes about. Interesting, glad. Though, he'll likely never make another on his own.
He doesn't need to. He can keep others from making em though
He doesn't need to. He can keep others from making em though
He could produce one though. That might be interesting.
the way i look at it, if you use rules similar to Back to the Future, it's broken.
but if you use rules like Dragon Ball's time travel (in this series, events changed by time travel just create an alternate timeline and the original timeline never changes. you just end up with new timelines) it makes more sense since each movie gets a new timeline and past events are old timelines.
time travel in Terminator seems to be closer to DB's.
this is how i think it happens with DB's rules:
original time ------> things go on and Skynet gets made and starts the war. Terminators are made and then sent back in time. Skynet was desperate so it didn't give a damn about time travel not changing the current timeline. it just wanted an alternate time with it winning. Kyle is a John Connor fanboy to the point he gets in love with his mom based in just one picture. John's actual dad is never known here. John has no idea Kyle will become his dad in another timeline.
T1 alt timeline ------> T-800 and Kyle go back in time and this creates an alternate timeline. T1 events happen and now Kyle becomes John's dad since he confessed his love to Sarah and she never met John's real dad. Skynet gets a speed boost in development due to the remains of the T-800 and Judgement day is moved forward. time goes to that point and the war still happens. John still becomes the leader of the resistance since he now knows about the danger and is better prepared (the soldiers seem more evenly matched against the machines in T2's future scenes)
now, Skynet this time tries to eliminate him with a more advanced Terminator since the resistance is much better this time and it concludes it needs to send a better machine. T-1000 is sent back in time and John sends a reprogrammed T-800 to stop it.
this John does get to meet Kyle but there's no need to send him back since it's an alternate timeline (or he would just create yet another timeline by sending him back too)
T2 alt timeline --------> when the T-800 and T-1000 go back, they create a new timeline from the point T2 begins. now they are set to prevent Judgment Day since the Terminator tells them about the old T-800's stuff helping Cyberdyne make Skynet faster.
they go and destroy the whole thing and this timeline gets a no war future (in the alternate ending at least).
since the movie went with the open ending, they gave room for T3 to happen since "apparently" only the stuff used to speed up Skynet's development was destroyed and Skynet itself was still possible. since John decides to live off the grid now, there's no way to trace him until the war happens and he becomes the leader of the resistance. once Skynet is again smashed into a pile of junk, it makes another last ditch effort to create an alt timeline where it wins and now sends a T-X capable of destroying other Terminators (Skynet is pretty much "use a bigger bomb" mode in every attempt) and also uses a T-800 to assasinate John when they think they've won. the T-800 gets reprogrammed and sent back by his wife (no idea how they met in this line lol).
T3 alt timeline -----------> T-X and T-800 arrive and create yet another timeline. this one doesn't really have many differences outside some of John's lieutenants being dead and him meeting his future wife earlier (i'm assuming he met her in the previous timeline after the war began) since the events are on the day Judgment Day happens.
Salvation doesn't have time travel so it's a given it happens after T3's alt timeline (it even starts when T3's Judgment day happens)
from what i've seen, Genisys is gonna break this since they meet the T-800 from T1 and that should not be possible with DB's rules. in the end, now i wish i could go back in time and not spend half an hour making this post since time travel in Terminator just keeps changing.
lastplayed
Member
Yeah he was ultimate all right, he ultimately failed.
lol
DiipuSurotu
Banned
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I don't know what's sadder, the people that hold T3 as their favourite Terminator movie, or the people that shit on those people, before propping up that godawful TV show.
That was supposed to be Salvation. Some of the concept art for the film was fantastic.
This opinion can't possibly be real. Someone needs to send a mod back in time to erase this from the gaf timeline.
Take the brief future action scenes from T1 and T2 that takes place in the dark nighttime wasteland of skulls with chrome machines marching along obliterating everything and make an entire movie about it. How hard is that?
That's what Salvation was leading into.
But nope. It seems people wanted more Arnold, and more time travel, so now we are stuck with Genisys and its timeline retconning shenanigans.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Estocolmo
Member
I haven't seen Salvation or anything else after T2. Care to summarise why your salty about Salvation?
i remember reading an interview with mostow (T3 director) a long time ago... he said there pretty much was no effort whatsoever to match the first two and he set out to make a movie defined by its ending a la Sixth Sense. he kind of implied a lot of it was supposed to be a parody (like the male stripper club, john growing up to be a burn out, ect)
it sort of made me regard the movie differently after that... though i still think it was handled poorly overall. worst offense IMO is the movie didn't have any soul... like the soundtrack was virtually non existent. we never really got to know the kind of person john grew up to be. his interactions/"relationship" with kate was uninteresting and pointless. ... script had some passable ideas, but went nowhere with it
it sort of made me regard the movie differently after that... though i still think it was handled poorly overall. worst offense IMO is the movie didn't have any soul... like the soundtrack was virtually non existent. we never really got to know the kind of person john grew up to be. his interactions/"relationship" with kate was uninteresting and pointless. ... script had some passable ideas, but went nowhere with it
The art direction was crap despite the earlier concept art that really nailed the dark atmosphere seen in T2. Part of that was due to poor lighting decisions and overall shoddy cinematography. Not to mention poor use of CGI for say Ahnuld's face.
Some of the robots are so ridiculous like the above, that it doesn't make sense how the humans lasted as long as they did. They have Transformers running around.
Bale did a crappy job acting along with everyone else. Nobody gave a good performance and while you can definitely attribute part of this to the script, the actors themselves shoulder some of the blame as well.
It's easier to link you to this for the plotholes:
http://movieplotholes.com/terminator-salvation.html
http://moviechopshop.com/2009/06/02...or-salvation-abandons-all-semblance-of-logic/
The script is terrible on so many front.
Salvation was a misguided attempt at a future Terminator movie that didn't at all feel like the future Terminator world we saw before. It lacked the atmosphere, it lacked the soul. It had transformers and tron bikes chasing people through a desert in sunny daylight. That's not oppressive and scary, that's lighthearted and laughable.
Discotheque
Banned
this is my dream terminator 3 (with cameron under the helm)
a lot of blue filters in post (with some more color of course for the lasers and stuff). god damn, fuck terminator salvation.
a lot of blue filters in post (with some more color of course for the lasers and stuff). god damn, fuck terminator salvation.
Lucky Forward
Member
That's the difference between a film maker with a creative idea and a passion to tell the story, and a studio turning it into a "franchise" to be milked for every last dollar.
gioGAF
Member
This.
1) No James Cameron ***Agree 100%
2) It went a little too far on the comedy aspects in my opinion ***Agree 100%
3) It basically shits on Terminator 2s ending ***NO! T23D shat all over it and it was made by James Cameron.
4) Terminator 2 was the perfect ending to the franchise. ***Again No! as James Camerons own T23D ride was the "true ending" according to himself.
How was it pointless? It was supposed to be a trilogy leading up to all things most of us fans wanted i.e the future war scenes we all seen in flashbacks.
I agree. Personally I loved seeing the T-600 and the beginning of the development of the T-800. Also a young Kyle Reese before he met John Connor.
The sequels to Salvation were supposed to take place in the "dark/always night" future that fanboys orgasm about. I, myself was really looking forward to them.
But now...?
Oh, and Christian Bale was the best John Connor we've ever had.
But Salvation sucked so we never got them sadly. Also what zma1013 is what it should had been.
No. But at least we are finally getting the final nail in the coffin for the franchise.
m_shortpants
Member
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It was supposed to set up the thing we wanted!
Why not just give people the thing they wanted? The Future War needs no setting up from a completely different film.
T3 should've been the future war. Salvation wasting its time hinting at its beginning was beyond dumb. They keep skirting around the only thing people wanted.
I agree. Personally I loved seeing the T-600 and the beginning of the development of the T-800. Also a young Kyle Reese before he met John Connor.
The sequels to Salvation were supposed to take place in the "dark/always night" future that fanboys orgasm about. I, myself was really looking forward to them.
But now...?
Oh, and Christian Bale was the best John Connor we've ever had.
Why did it have to be the sequels that were supposedly going to be the cool ones? The first one could have been good from the start. Also, if Salvation did end up successful and sequels were made, how do you know they wouldn't have sucked. (They probably would've been just as bad as Salvation).
Also you're acting like the current Terminator is the only alternative to Salvation and is what people wanted, which isn't true at all.
Sunnington
Banned
It's like making a sequel to Blade Runner. The story has been completed and the themese were so well created the sequel can't match up. There's no reason to revisit that universe again.
Erm wasn't T23D non canon, being that it was a theme park attraction and has a few obvious continuity issues? T23D being a real sequel is like saying Back to the Future: The Ride is canon to BTTF.
That setup was unnecessary and filled with plot holes large enough for a Hunter Killer to fit through. We already know John grows up from a punk teenage Ed Furlong to be a badass Michael Edwards (the guy from T2's Future War scenes). What we need was the days leading up to sending Kyle/the second T800 back, and then him ending the war.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Do you know the first few minutes of T2 with the future war? Imagine a 2 hour version of that with a budget of $200 million.
The one downside being that you'd need to wait 10 years for the special effects to be ready.
Salvation was cool to me, so I disagree with you. I didn't like the whole hybrid thing with Marcus, but I highly enjoyed the rest of what the film did, especially with the idea of John Connor not starting as the official leader, but gaining the trust of the other soldiers first.
rokkerkory
Member
I thought the last one was pretty good
Neff
Member
I've never heard him saying this, or even that he considered it canon against the movies. But he's certainly proud of it as both a technical showcase and an entertainment piece, and rightly so.
And yeah, it's better than T3/Salvation, cheesy as it is.
Finaika
Member
Who's that black dude beside Kyle Reese?
Noisepurge
Member
I liked Salvation more than 3, atleast they finally gave us the future war instead of retreading the same plot the third time.
But yeah, can't top perfection so all sequels will be inferior. They should have made the third film about the future war, like Salvation. But without Christian Bale, as they originally were supposed to.
The main hero being a Terminator without knowing about it himself.
But yeah, can't top perfection so all sequels will be inferior. They should have made the third film about the future war, like Salvation. But without Christian Bale, as they originally were supposed to.
The main hero being a Terminator without knowing about it himself.
Lando Calrissian
EroticSushi
Member
This thread makes me extra sad to see Genisys releasing soon. Gotta put that final nail in the coffin.
Banjotanooki
Member
On the contrary for me. Not taking it seriously, just gonna watch it for some laughs and seeing Arnold back is enough for me.
Noisepurge
Member
i just wish it was a sequel to Commando or something. Not another slap in the legacy of Terminator
Banjotanooki
Member
i just wish it was a sequel to Commando or something. Not another slap in the legacy of Terminator
lol, I just assume it ends at T2 and that's that. The first 2 took themselves seriously, 3 was alright, never saw Salvation since no Arnie so this'll be another fun movie.
MilkyJoe
Member
Noisepurge
Member
i do recommend watching the Unrated cut of Salvation. Atleast just so you know what to bash.
Terminator 3 The Coming Storm edit is also slightly better than the default cut.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
What are you waiting for, breakfast in bed?
Terminator 3, Terminator Salvation and Terminator What The Fuck, are all missed opportunities at doing future war movies.
I wanted a solid, grim war story, human vs machines, with the ultimate goal being smashing the grid and taking the time facility. Along the way there would be loads of potential for seeing various new terminators as skynet gets increasingly desperate, and of course the discovery of a second time facility/Cameron style second ending featuring the T1000 battling to get sent back.
I wanted a solid, grim war story, human vs machines, with the ultimate goal being smashing the grid and taking the time facility. Along the way there would be loads of potential for seeing various new terminators as skynet gets increasingly desperate, and of course the discovery of a second time facility/Cameron style second ending featuring the T1000 battling to get sent back.
and a nuclear bomb detonation
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