TESV: Skyrim New Info from Power Unlimited [Up: Tons Of New Details In OP]

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
#51
Haunted said:
Thinking about this some more, I still don't really get it. If dungeons do not scale to your level, why do they need to be "locked" upon a first visit?
i dont know if this is how it is but it certainly sounds like it. Say dungeons have a range of levels. A mid-range dungeon has a level of 20-25. It spawns enemies in that 5 level range. If you enter at level 20, the dungeons spawns level 20 stuff. If you enter at 25, it spawns level 25 stuff. If you enter below 20, it spawns level 20 because thats the lowest and vice versa if you enter at a level higher than its maximum spawn.

Tiered level scaling is fine. Level scaling based solely on you (everything is your level like in Oblivion) in an explorable world is bad.
 
#52
Haunted said:
"Low fantasy" What does this mean?
wikipedia said:
High fantasy is defined as fantasy fiction set in an alternative, entirely fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the real, or "primary" world. The secondary world is usually internally consistent but its rules differ in some way(s) from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary, or "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.
.
 
#55
FlawlessCowboy said:
The hell is that last quote about archery... shooting slow? That was exactly what was wrong with Oblivion's archer class.
I know...at least the arrows are more powerful now. But they're apparently rare now too.

I've already decided that my stealth character will use magic from afar...sucks that you can't zoom with magic though.

Do we know if Bethesda is sticking with "magicka?" Can't we just drop the pointless "ka" in this one?
 
#56
Haunted said:
No.

Think of your run-of-the-mill Wii game. Then scale that game up to 720p and remove the jaggies. Will it look as good as Uncharted 2 and God of War III, yes or no?


Poly count, shaders, DX10/11 effects (like tesselation), PhysX effects, texture resolution... all elements that are held back by PS360 if the games "are equal except for better resolution and AA".

Yes but I still see it as different. The difference between a Wii game and PS3/360 game is fundamentally bigger. PS3/360 games already can push enough polygons and textures that it's the effects, shaders quality, post-processing effects that will make the real difference --- and those might not be held back in the PC release.
Ultimately, the game should be fun even for the master race.
 
#57
EviLore said:
It's the method they used in Fallout 3. An area will have a designated level range, let's say 5-10. If you go there for the first time at level 1, it will be level 5. If you go there for the first time at level 7, it will be level 7. If you go there for the first time at level 15, it will be level 10.

Once you go there for the first time, it's locked at that level and if it's too hard for you you can leave and come back later and it won't have scaled any further.

Hypothetically it's not that terrible, but in Fallout 3 there weren't really any areas in the whole game world that you couldn't take on early game pretty easily, so I don't like how it turned out in practice.
Hm, I can live with that if the ranges aren't too large. I like being clearly out of my depth, stumbling upon something I probably shouldn't have. High risk, high reward as someone put it.

I think your problems with Fallout 3 stemmed from the fact that you got very powerful very quickly if you had a modicum of knowledge of RPG conventions. Not sure they can fix that given the overall balance they're trying to achieve (i.e - you can't build your character into a dead-end even even if you take all the wrong choices.

I think the various damage balance mods for FO3 and NV did a good job rectifying some of these, though. Skyrim probably won't be any different.


water_wendi said:
i dont know if this is how it is but it certainly sounds like it. Say dungeons have a range of levels. A mid-range dungeon has a level of 20-25. It spawns enemies in that 5 level range. If you enter at level 20, the dungeons spawns level 20 stuff. If you enter at 25, it spawns level 25 stuff. If you enter below 20, it spawns level 20 because thats the lowest and vice versa if you enter at a level higher than its maximum spawn.

Tiered level scaling is fine. Level scaling based solely on you (everything is your level like in Oblivion) in an explorable world is bad.
Yeah, I get it now. The ranges do have to be well thought out and be fairly upscale (= lean towards the high end) for this to have the proper impact, though.
 
#58
EviLore said:
Hypothetically it's not that terrible, but in Fallout 3 there weren't really any areas in the whole game world that you couldn't take on early game pretty easily, so I don't like how it turned out in practice.
Well, there's always Old Olney and that cave full of Deathclaws, but those weren't scaled at all, as far as I know.

All I'm hoping for is some areas in Skyrim that take thought and consideration before entering. If you rush into those areas recklessly, something with big teeth will eat your face.

The Lamonster said:
stealth character will use magic from afar...sucks that you can't zoom with magic though.

Do we know if Bethesda is sticking with "magicka?" Can't we just drop the pointless "ka" in this one?
Magicka is still magicka, but fatigue has been changed into stamina. Which makes more sense.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
#59
The Lamonster said:
Do we know if Bethesda is sticking with "magicka?" Can't we just drop the pointless "ka" in this one?
Whats pointless about "ka?" It differentiates between magic and magical power. i like Magicka better than Mana.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
#60
The Lamonster said:
Do we know if Bethesda is sticking with "magicka?" Can't we just drop the pointless "ka" in this one?
Why would they change the lexicon they've been using the entire series?
 
#61
water_wendi said:
Whats pointless about "ka?" It differentiates between magic and magical power. i like Magicka better than Mana.
I think I'm just an idiot. I never realized that Magicka is used to perform magic.

I still like Mana better but at least it makes more sense to me now :)

Blue Ninja said:
Magicka is still magicka, but fatigue has been changed into stamina. Which makes more sense.
The anal bead inside me is happy about this. It never made sense to me as Fatigue, because that's what you get from having low Stamina!

Krauser Kat said:
well it looks like mods will help us once again. I dont know if i like the locked magic or how i assume its going to be. I loved making super spells in oblivion and enchanting my own weapons and armor.
Me too. I hope it comes back in Skyrim. Near end-game, I was using pretty much 100% my own customized spells/enchants.
 
#62
well it looks like mods will help us once again. I dont know if i like the locked magic or how i assume its going to be. I loved making super spells in oblivion and enchanting my own weapons and armor.
 
#63
Ranger X said:
Yes but I still see it as different. The difference between a Wii game and PS3/360 game is fundamentally bigger. PS3/360 games already can push enough polygons and textures that it's the effects, shaders quality, post-processing effects that will make the real difference --- and those might not be held back in the PC release.
I don't agree. We're rapidly approaching a generational jump in the power difference between a 2005 360 and a 2011 high end PC.

And I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable tech guys like brain_stew will take the argument further than that.

Ranger X said:
Ultimately, the game should be fun even for the master race.
Of course. However when talking theoretically like this, the goal must be higher than "it should be fun" and more something like "it should be as good as it can be".
 
#64
Ranger X said:
Yes but I still see it as different. The difference between a Wii game and PS3/360 game is fundamentally bigger. PS3/360 games already can push enough polygons and textures that it's the effects, shaders quality, post-processing effects that will make the real difference --- and those might not be held back in the PC release.
Ultimately, the game should be fun even for the master race.
The gap between pcs and 360/ps3 is as big or bigger than the wii/360 gap.

If you want to go by synthetic benchmarks
the rough equivilent of the 360 is an X1950+ some special stuff through in from the 2kHD range
this would score around an 850 on PASSMark (which is generous)
the current top performer is the 580 with whopping score of 3797

its hard to find an equivalent of the wii
 
#65
FlawlessCowboy said:
The hell is that last quote about archery... shooting slow? That was exactly what was wrong with Oblivion's archer class.
Yeah, but it sounds like the damage has been greatly increased. Coupled with crazy high stealth bonuses to damage (10x is getting batted around), archery has a lot going for it.
 
#67
JBuccCP said:
Magic, Dragons and other monsters, entirely fictional setting. Sounds like it fits "High Fantasy" better to me. Not that I really care.
Yes. elves, magic and dragons seems pretty damn 'High Fantasy' to me. Not that I am bothered with this, TES was always High Fantasy.
 
#71
I hate the locked dungeons thing.


Doesn't Bethesda get that there's not one person playing this game who minds being destroyed by an evil magic-draining super mage 5 minutes into the game as a punishment for venturing too far outward?

I'd like to meet the person who first requested all this and punch them in the face.
 
#73
Yes it did, but more subtly, and I wasn't aware of it.

The moment someone explained Oblivion's to me I became enraged by the super bears that were unimpressed by my GIANT MAGIC SWORD.
 
#74
DennisK4 said:
Dragon Age "dark" or The Witcher "dark" is the question.
Hopefully the later, but hey, this is Bethesda and Elder Scrolls.

Well, at least I'm totally into this "Norse" setting. This may very well be the first ES game I actually like. Just make sure we're getting a grim game instead of Lord of the Rings with snow.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
#75
chaostrophy said:
Did Morrowind use any kind of level scaling system?
Yes, but it wasn't very noticeable. For example, you would find rare items like grand soul gems more often in chests/barrels in dungeons when at a higher character level.
 

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
#76
The arrow thing sounds cool but are enemies still going to fly backwards 40 feet when they get hit? That always drove me crazy, was there ever a mod for Oblivion that changed this?
 
#77
Borgnine said:
The arrow thing sounds cool but are enemies still going to fly backwards 40 feet when they get hit? That always drove me crazy, was there ever a mod for Oblivion that changed this?
It was totally unrealistic, but damn it felt awesome to me. Kind of like when you kill someone with a sword and they fly up in the air like a water balloon.
 

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
#78
The Lamonster said:
It was totally unrealistic, but damn it felt awesome to me. Kind of like when you kill someone with a sword and they fly up in the air like a water balloon.
Maybe if there was a cliff and you didn't have to see them seizuring on the ground after they were dead. A little ragdoll is cool I just don't see why they had to have it cranked to 11.
 
#82
Borgnine said:
The arrow thing sounds cool but are enemies still going to fly backwards 40 feet when they get hit? That always drove me crazy, was there ever a mod for Oblivion that changed this?
Realistic Physics and Force. Watch this. Skip to 53 seconds if you'd like to see exactly what you're talking about (someone flying 10' from a sword hit). The first sequence is vanilla, the second is with the mod (youtube video linked is from an older version of it, but mostly similar).
 
#83
EviLore said:
Oblivion and Fallout 3 were in line with that quote. No high res textures, no additional effects, bare minimum of changes to the interface.
Exactly...why would you expect anything fancy from Bethesda? They have been using their patented uglytech for a long time now, and from the shots they have shown they still are. It might be a "new engine," but it still looks like crap.
 
#84
That Dungeon quote annoys me. I really like traveling around exploring the map and dungeons when my character is still gimped. Exploring is a lot more rewarding and exhilarating when death is just around the corner, your decisions have to more thought out and tactical too.

Though the Dark brotherhood are in the game so that is a plus and hopefully the dungeons have different architecture and there are a wide verity of assets used. In oblivion is was bit like seen one seen them all
 
#85
water_wendi said:
It says dungeons will be locked at "their" level, not the players level. So you can enter, get your ass-kicked, leave to get stronger, and return with the dungeon not leveling up after you leave. Sounds alright to me.
Indeed. It sounds like a good and fun system, if the dungeons have different "innate" difficulties. For instance:

Some random "goblin's camp" dungeon might be set up to be level 3 through 8, depending on the player's level when they first encounter it. If the player stumbles across it while still at level 1, the dungeon will be quite challenging and maybe impossible. However, since the dungeon will then be "locked" at level 3, forever, that dungeon will become easy-peasy for even level 5 characters. And that's great, since we all enjoy kicking a little ass from time to time, and we don't always want to wait until we're level 30 to start doing it.

Another dungeon might be set up to be level 20-30, depending on the character's level when it is discovered. Nicer loot in this dungeon, but it will be instantly fatal to a low level character. Again, that's fine. If you discover that dungeon in the early game, it will be impossible, but it will contain loot that encourages you to give it another shot, ASAP. If you discover the dungeon at level 25, it'll just be modestly challenging and modestly profitable. If you discover it as a level 50 demi-god... you'll kill stuff like you were a demi-god. It seems to make sense to me.

("Main quest dungeons" will need to have wider initial ranges, so that they will never be "too easy" when the character first encounters them. But even there, locking them down would be nice, so that a person could decide to beat the game at a fairly low level if they wished to. Well, wait. I guess main quest dungeons probably shouldn't be locked at all, just to preserve some minimum level of difficulty/drama.)
 
#86
n0b said:
Exactly...why would you expect anything fancy from Bethesda? They have been using their patented uglytech for a long time now, and from the shots they have shown they still are. It might be a "new engine," but it still looks like crap.
What are you looking at? The screens I've seen look great.
 

Borgnine

MBA in pussy licensing and rights management
#87
Minsc said:
Realistic Physics and Force.
Niiice, thanks. Exactly what I was looking for. Pretty cool that because this game is Oblivion Part II, I can start building my mod checklist to be ready for discounted Skyrim as part of the Steam Summer Sale 2012. Only 18 months to go yeaaaaahhhhhhhh!
 
#88
guidop said:
That Dungeon quote annoys me. I really like traveling around exploring the map and dungeons when my character is still gimped. Exploring is a lot more rewarding and exhilarating when death is just around the corner, your decisions have to more thought out and tactical too.

Though the Dark brotherhood are in the game so that is a plus and hopefully the dungeons have different architecture and there are a wide verity of assets used. In oblivion is was bit like seen one seen them all

Yeah, in Risen I spent an half an hour or more and nearly killed my quickload button kicking a group of skelettons AND their leader guy in their brittle hip bones with one or so points in swordfighting. THAT was fun.

If they fix animations, AI, phyisics and their human "faces" I´ll get this day one.
 
#89
Disappointed to hear that the PC version is going to be hampered by consoles, but other than that, this is some good info. This game is definitely going to be the top 3 for me. Its coming out this year right?
 
#92
rexor0717 said:
Disappointed to hear that the PC version is going to be hampered by consoles, but other than that, this is some good info. This game is definitely going to be the top 3 for me. Its coming out this year right?
No it won't. It'll be the same as Falout 3 or Oblivion where it is still the best looking version and 6 months down the track we'll have texture mods that'll blow the original out of the water.
 
#93
Speevy said:
I hate the locked dungeons thing.


Doesn't Bethesda get that there's not one person playing this game who minds being destroyed by an evil magic-draining super mage 5 minutes into the game as a punishment for venturing too far outward?

I'd like to meet the person who first requested all this and punch them in the face.
You can still get destroyed.
Read post #49.
 
#94
EviLore said:
Oblivion and Fallout 3 were in line with that quote. No high res textures, no additional effects, bare minimum of changes to the interface.
If they repeat this with TESV then they're throwing out money.
They could easily re-release a cross-generation GOTY version on PS4/X720 with HD assets.
 
#95
I don't care if everything else is as in consoles, so long as the game:
* supports mods (which it does)
* runs at higher resolutions (which it does)
* has a separate UI for PC with appropriately sized/designed elements (???)
 
#99
water_wendi said:
Even if it doesnt i suspect DarN will have something out in a few days.
Maybe I just never got it working quite correctly, but I was never happy with the DarN "same thing, but smaller" update. I really want an interface that acknowledges that I have a mouse and don't need to tab panels to fit more information.