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TGS Forza 5: Severe Visual Degradation? No, Uncalibrated TVs, No Geek Squad Available

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M

maplelord93

Banned
Parapraxis said:
How....do you know this?
Honestly, elaborate, because you potentially have information which could change this entire thread.
Which conventions were you at, just how GOOD will the final build be?

gimme that insider sauce bro!

EDIT: haha i Still await that sauce.
Click to expand...

what kind of silly question? he is the lead xbox one planning guy off course he would know.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Parapraxis said:
How....do you know this?
Honestly, elaborate, because you potentially have information which could change this entire thread.
Which conventions were you at, just how GOOD will the final build be?

gimme that insider sauce bro!

EDIT: haha i Still await that sauce.
Click to expand...

You have no idea who you're talking to do you? lol
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
crazygambit said:
Just to play devil's advocate, it wasn't shown on retail hardware as it didn't exist at the time. So it was running on dev kits. Today we just found out that dev kits have the ability to overclock the CPU and GPU and enable the 2/14 CU disabled for redundancy in retail hardware, so the fact that it was shown on a dev kit doesn't mean it's exactly the same as retail hardware, the recent downgrade of Ryse should make that clear.

I'm not even saying it's particularly wrong if they did that. They might have been trying to show how the game would look once it was optimized and finished so they upped the hardware a little. Maybe right now it's running on the same spec as retail and when they're done it might go back to E3 level.

That's just one way it could have gone.
Click to expand...

Not true.

First of all, our Dev kits and Retail kits are exactly the same. The only difference is the SW running on it.

Second, developers cannot turn off/on CU's. Some of our internal engineers have been able to do that for testing purposes, but it's not something available to developers.

The Gamescom builds looked better than the E3 builds. The final game will look even better I'm told.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Albert Penello said:
Not true.

First of all, our Dev kits and Retail kits are exactly the same. The only difference is the SW running on it.

Second, developers cannot turn off/on CU's. Some of our internal engineers have been able to do that for testing purposes, but it's not something available to developers.

The Gamescom builds looked better than the E3 builds. The final game will look even better I'm told.
Click to expand...

Don't the dev kits have 12gb ram as oppose to 8gb? Often dev kits do have more ram for added debugging and optimisation leeway and buffer. It would make no difference to the look of the final game mind, since the games would be running designed specifically for the amount of ram in the retail kits.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Albert Penello said:
Not true.

First of all, our Dev kits and Retail kits are exactly the same. The only difference is the SW running on it.

Second, developers cannot turn off/on CU's. Some of our internal engineers have been able to do that for testing purposes, but it's not something available to developers.

The Gamescom builds looked better than the E3 builds. The final game will look even better I'm told.
Click to expand...

Really? so what about that extra USB port?

Edit:

Well not USB but this mystery port

 
A

Albert Penello

Member
nib95 said:
Don't the dev kits have 12gb ram as oppose to 8gb? Often dev kits do have more ram for added debugging and optimisation leeway and buffer. It would make no difference to the look of the final game mind, since the games would be running designed specifically for the amount of ram in the retail kits.
Click to expand...

No, they don't. This was a rumor going around a while back. Not sure how it started.

EDIT: I'm talking about the current, retail-form factor dev kits. Anything shown on one of the black kits, or white zebra kits. There were very early PC-based dev kits with specs I'm not familiar with, lest I get caught in semantics discussion. :)
 
ref

ref

Member
Gotta give it to Penello for coming back after all the crap he usually gets when he posts just about anything.

Good to hear some clarification, but I already assumed there was no visual downgrade as it looked pretty much the same as the earlier Gamescom videos.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Albert Penello said:
I really don't know. When I had time on the floor I was checking out the.. ahem... competition. Stuff I don't get to see normally.

I had the same build as was on the floor in the Conference rooms, so I know it was the same, but I didn't see the issue described in the article.
Click to expand...

This is off topic in regards to Forza 5, but I would absolutely love to know.

Do you see stuff happening on competitors hardware that surprise you, and/or gives you new ideas that you want to bring back "home"?

Does the team at MS feel, at the moment they have 1 or 2 direct competitors?

Questions answered or not, I think it's awesome that you are checking out competitors, do you see a lot of Sony/Nintendo people checking out the MS booths?
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
nib95 said:
He was joking lol. Makes little difference if the dev kit has that extra ram or not. Might have helped devs a bit, but ultimately the important fact is that the Xbox One's retail specs remain unchanged.
Click to expand...

Having dev kits have 50% more ram wouldn't really make much sense to me, wouldn't that make them have to downscale to retail?

Also, pretty sure Albert caught that zinger. Hence the bolded.
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
nib95 said:
He was joking lol. Makes little difference if the dev kit has that extra ram or not. Might have helped devs a bit, but ultimately the important fact is that the Xbox One's retail specs remain unchanged.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. I was just saying it was awfully close to what really happens. It happened twice at TGS, actually. It gets frustrating.

Despite what everyone would love to believe, I'm not in PR, but I have been helping do demos - and I'll probably be on the road more before launch. If I *was* in PR, I'd probably do a better job watching what I say.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Parapraxis said:
Having dev kits have 50% more ram wouldn't really make much sense to me, wouldn't that make them have to downscale to retail?

Alos, pretty sure Albert caught that zinger.
Click to expand...

No, because they don't design the game around having 12GB, but the retail amount of 8GB. The extra ram (if it existed) just helps shifting stuff around, or acting as extra buffer for debugging and optimisations. Think of it as extra storage you can use temporarily but later remove whilst trying to get stuff to fit in a particular box as efficiently and tightly as possible.

Doesn't always happen, just sometimes.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Albert Penello said:
Yes, I know. I was just saying it was awfully close to what really happens. It happened twice at TGS, actually. It gets frustrating.

Despite what everyone would love to believe, I'm not in PR, but I have been helping do demos - and I'll probably be on the road more before launch. If I *was* in PR, I'd probably do a better job watching what I say.
Click to expand...

Hey Albert, i'd like to apologize for my initial dickishness, just seen too many people claiming to have "inside" knowledge whilst making up tall tales, I suppose it comes with the nature of the industry where many people are armchair experts.
Wasn't paying attention to the person I quoted, 3:am, just finished some pretty intense karaoke.
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
onQ123 said:
Really? so what about that extra USB port?

Edit:

Well not USB but this mystery port

Click to expand...

Yes. There is a diagnostic port on some dev kits. Still functionally the same as the retail units and made on the same line. To be even more specific, there are several versions of SW for kits based on what's being run. And many of them are literally the same boxes.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Albert Penello said:
Yes, I know. I was just saying it was awfully close to what really happens. It happened twice at TGS, actually. It gets frustrating.

Despite what everyone would love to believe, I'm not in PR, but I have been helping do demos - and I'll probably be on the road more before launch. If I *was* in PR, I'd probably do a better job watching what I say.
Click to expand...

True, but any employee of a company doing public information relaying regarding it's products, interviews and so forth, is actually indirectly or directly doing public relations. I think that's why people label you as doing PR. You're a spokes person for the company and it's product whether you want to be or not.
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
Parapraxis said:
Hey Albert, i'd like to apologize for my initial dickishness, just seen too many people claiming to have "inside" knowledge whilst making up tall tales, I suppose it comes with the nature of the industry where many people are armchair experts.
Wasn't paying attention to the person I quoted, 3:am, just finished some pretty intense karaoke.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize at all. It was a fair question. I never assume people know who I am, so fair to ask. I wish more people were as critical of their information sources :)
 
B

Blimblim

The Inside Track
While I don't really have a reason to defend Microsoft these days, I can at least confirm that they suck at calibrating their demo screens. We can go to any TV at Sony's booth with our usual 6500K color calibration and have perfect colors. At MS' we have to do a manual color calibration almost every time. It's like they plug in the console, turn it on, check if there is a picture, and done. I remember an incident at a French games show where at least half the consoles had the yuv cable in SD mode (it was before the HDMI consoles where out), so half the demos where running in SD on hdtvs, and no one at MS seemed to care when I told them that they should do something about it. Obviously they care more about E3, at least, but who knows if there was someone in charge at the TGS for this stuff...
I have raw footage from the TGS (the now infamous Spa incident :p), and it's absolutely the exact same demo that we saw at Gamescom.
 
Y

ypo

Member
Albert Penello said:
No need to apologize at all. It was a fair question. I never assume people know who I am, so fair to ask. I wish more people were as critical of their information sources :)
Click to expand...

Can you tell us why haven't third party multiplatform games been shown running on the X1 yet? The only one so far I think was Fifa. The system is only 2 months away from launch and yet 99% of the multiplatform games haven't been shown running.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Albert Penello said:
No need to apologize at all. It was a fair question. I never assume people know who I am, so fair to ask. I wish more people were as critical of their information sources :)
Click to expand...

Cool man, but seriously, I was a total dick.

So, yeah...is Nintendo even on your guys' radar now? I kid I kid.

What game has you most excited for next gen? I haven't personally seen Titanfall, but it looks amazing from the 2nd hand footage.
I guess in this thread you should probably say F5 ;)
 
M

Metzhara

Member
Phire Phox said:
Meh, taken with a grain of salt. Just wait for the reviews and final build to pass judgment. Probably badly calibrated monitor.
Click to expand...

Looked like badly compressed video on my end. Even the green in the booth was artifacted. Other than the track being empty as I would expect from Laguna Seca, did I miss something happen in the video (other than the weird flash of light that happens 3 or so times towards the end)? It's also at 720P (all resolution jokes aside) and a little difficult to see any legitimate issues.
While I agree it's possible they tried to trick us with the E3 demo, it was a super sweet demo. I'd really like to hear if this was legitimately seen by other participants as so far as Youtube was concerned I could only find THIS video...which is weird because I could find all sorts of people singing their own renditions of every terrible act on the radio.
Either way, would be disappointing as I've got a lot of respect for the Forza franchise. I do wish at times though I had blind devotion, it's nice to not have to think about if I will enjoy all aspects of the game. -Adam
 
S

Salvor.Hardin

Banned
ypo said:
Can you tell us why haven't third party multiplatform games been shown running on the X1 yet? The only one so far I think was Fifa. The system is only 2 months away from launch and yet 99% of the multiplatform games haven't been shown running.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I'm wondering. I'm interested in getting the One but I'd at the very least like to see some of these multiplatform games running on the console before I decide to splurge.

Now of course I'll get the chance to do that post-launch, but if I do decide to get a launch console (which I've begun thinking I should), I'd like to see what these guys have to offer in ways of multiplatform performance.
 
N

nib95

Banned
PTG said:
What's going on in these gifs? This is the first I've seen of this in any of the Forza gameplay videos.

@1:00 mark


@1:22 mark


@1:40 mark


From the TGS gameplay video posted by IGN.

Link
Click to expand...

Looks like some kind of post processing filter is kicking in randomly. Maybe what they use to differentiate the minor ToD differences among the tracks?

Or as Blim suggested, the camera recording colour settings glitching out.
 
C

crazygambit

Member
Albert Penello said:
Not true.

First of all, our Dev kits and Retail kits are exactly the same. The only difference is the SW running on it.

Second, developers cannot turn off/on CU's. Some of our internal engineers have been able to do that for testing purposes, but it's not something available to developers.

The Gamescom builds looked better than the E3 builds. The final game will look even better I'm told.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks for the clarification!
 
A

Albert Penello

Member
ypo said:
Can you tell us why haven't third party multiplatform games been shown running on the X1 yet? The only one so far I think was Fifa. The system is only 2 months away from launch and yet 99% of the multiplatform games haven't been shown running.
Click to expand...

You know, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask the 3rd Parties. I was hoping to see more myself.

If I had to make a GUESS (please note the highlighted "guess" as the following statement is made by me personally and not as a representative of the Microsoft (R) corporation), and it's probably because everyone is busy trying to ship in two months. Taking time off to make playable demos may be too time consuming. You've got two new console launches on top of likely 4+ existing platforms.
 
B

Blimblim

The Inside Track
PTG said:
What's going on in these gifs? This is the first I've seen of this in any of the Forza gameplay videos.

@1:00 mark


@1:22 mark


@1:40 mark


From the TGS gameplay video posted by IGN.

Link
Click to expand...

Definitely a bug or something wrong with the camera. I have raw footage from the TGS and it doesn't have this issue at all.
travisbickle said:
What's this?

Also, probably the visual difference between Laguna Seca and Prague that has led to disappointment here.
Click to expand...

I was told by the guy who did our footage at the show that he had footage from the Spa track, and I reported it on the Forza thread here. When he uploaded, it turned out it was Laguna Seca, leading to a few disappointed (to say the least :p) people here :)
 
N

nib95

Banned
Albert Penello said:
You know, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask the 3rd Parties. I was hoping to see more myself.

If I had to make a GUESS (please note the highlighted "guess" as the following statement is made by me personally and not as a representative of the Microsoft (R) corporation), and it's probably because everyone is busy trying to ship in two months. Taking time off to make playable demos may be too time consuming. You've got two new console launches on top of likely 4+ existing platforms.
Click to expand...

:p

Yes that would make sense. But it does look a bit odd considering a few PS4 versions of different multiplatform games have now been shown publicly (oft playable) at different events. In any case, hopefully they sort out optimisations and polishing in time for launch.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Metfanant said:
or its just now for the first time being seen on actual Xbone hardware, and not a PC with a Titan in it...
Click to expand...

Read the thread.
The story here is that the E3 demo and TGS demo were different.
Many people saying Gamescon/PAX/TGS build are all the same, and the visual downgrade is quite "overstated" if it exists at all.

YES It's quite possible the E3 demo was quite bullshot-ey
YES visual downgrade between the E3 demo and subsequent ones is possible.
YET, very hard to support given the lack of direct feed videos and the fact only one person is claiming there was a downgrade between E3 - and any other demos.

IF the E3 demo was spectacular, and the subsequent PAX/Gamescon and TGS ones were severely "downgraded" there would be many more articles about the issue now, than there currently is.
 
P

Positional4

Neo Member
well turn 10s Dan Greenawalt is at eurogamer expo on thursday at 1.00 at the developer sessions for the gaming public discussing forza 5.I would wait for impressions from that before jumping to conclusion abut the quality of the graphics.
 
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