The Amy Hennig Interview: On What Changed With Uncharted 4, Leaving EA, and What's Next.

Negotiator

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I thought it was sad that Amy really had to cover herself when saying that in her career she felt she hadn't been subjected to egregious sexism and oppression because of her gender.

Although she claims that part of her success may have been down to obliviousness to it on her part, its very clear that she isn't oblivious to the threat posed by going against the party line that gaming is a boys' "locker-room" environment that institutionally holds down women.

How wrong is that? If there was a real desire to get more women involved success stories like hers would be shouted from the rooftops, rather than making her be almost apologetic about it...
Amy probably doesn't like all this outrage culture/4th wave feminism/MeToo culture.

She's a worthy woman that earned her status in the industry legitimately, not by playing the "victim" card. I applaud her for that and she'll always have my respect.

I wish she could talk more about what happened at ND HQ that "forced" her to leave, but I guess she has signed a 20-year NDA contract or something like that. Sony would sue her ass off.

Now I'm surprised to learn she had such a hand in Uncharted 4, I thought the whole thing was Druckmann and co.

Well, she truly was the mastermind behind the series then and it's a shame she left Naughty Dog.
Her script didn't include Nadine and some other details were also different.

I guess she didn't like Druckmann's plans of including forced diversity to appease Anita and Co...

Did you even watch the video I linked? The game is fucking DULL. It's one step up from Dragon's Lair. It's scripted to shit. You can't even fall off platforms. It might as well have been a rail shooter with a lightgun.

It was laughable trash for the time it came out.
Do you like any particular Uncharted game or do you hate all of them? What difficulty do you prefer? Do you play the MP?

Personally, I consider UC4 even weaker than UC3 (that's not Hennig's fault if you learn about their development process) and UC2 is the pinnacle that hasn't been topped yet.

UC4 isn't a bad game per se, I just don't like the gloomy atmosphere. Even the menu music is depressing and not as cheery as it should be. That belongs in the TLOU universe, not Uncharted's.

I guess Druckmann's great success with TLOU made him really arrogant... they didn't even expect it. I still remember TLOU's day 1 game cover saying "by the same team that made Uncharted". They thought it would flop. And maybe it should have flopped (blasphemy, I know).

Don't get me wrong, I like TLOU as much as I like UC2 (including their MP components), I just don't like the fact that it changed ND so much in a bad way.

However 2 suffers from extremely generic bad guys, 4 is the one that fires on all cylinders, which really makes it almost a shame it's Nathan Drake's last adventure, like just when it starting to get REALLY good, ya know? But at least it ended on a high note.
I don't consider Zoran Lazarević a "generic bad guy".

Nadine on the other hand? Oh boy, where do I even start? The fact that Amy admitted Nadine wasn't even in her script says a lot IMHO.

Uncharted 4 ended on a bad note and The Lost Legacy made it even worse. Nadine became even more annoying there and you have to see all the optional dialogues to understand why I'm saying this.

It's not really surprising if you find out who wrote the TLL script.

I hope they'll never make an Uncharted 5, unless they bring Amy Hennig back (unlikely to happen).

I also wonder what was up with the old woman, Evelyn, and if that was teasing something in the future, reference is made to her having a daughter (I was thinking Lost Legacy would have something to do with that, but nope)
Originally it was an old man, not a woman.

"Q: You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?

A: When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.”

Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”"


Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/uncharted-4-director-neil-druckmann-on-nathan-drake-sexism-in-games-43705/
 

Fox Mulder

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I can't say I "hated" UC4, but it was definitely the weakest entry for me. It didn't have the fun level designs, story, or gameplay that I came to love with previous entries. It tried to be super "serious" and fell flat on its face.
Hate is a strong word, but I just didn't like it at all. It was way too slow and grounded for an Uncharted game. I loved that stuff in TLoU though. I got the platinum trophies in UC 1-3 and just want set pieces, lots of shooting, fun dialogue, and monsters in my Uncharted.

But I know I'm in the minority as the game got near perfect reviews everywhere mostly for the story.
 

Geki-D

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The shift towards more stealth sucks, as it's very shallow compared to even TLoU. You don't get AI distraction items to throw, you can't move bodies, there aren't any silenced weapons
You defeat your own point. You don't get and can't do that stuff because it's not a stealth game. Pretty much every fight starts with a stealth segment but they nearly always force you at one point or another to be seen and start an open gunfight. The lack of the things you list are also to push the player towards direct conflict. This is in fact a shift away from stealth.

UC4 had it's flaws but allround it was pretty good. I'd take its slower paced, lack of monsters story anyday over the nonsensical, incoherent plot of UC3 (that was written by Hennig).
 

John Lee Packard

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Amy probably doesn't like all this outrage culture/4th wave feminism/MeToo culture.

She's a worthy woman that earned her status in the industry legitimately, not by playing the "victim" card. I applaud her for that and she'll always have my respect.

I wish she could talk more about what happened at ND HQ that "forced" her to leave, but I guess she has signed a 20-year NDA contract or something like that. Sony would sue her ass off.


Her script didn't include Nadine and some other details were also different.

I guess she didn't like Druckmann's plans of including forced diversity to appease Anita and Co...


Do you like any particular Uncharted game or do you hate all of them? What difficulty do you prefer? Do you play the MP?

Personally, I consider UC4 even weaker than UC3 (that's not Hennig's fault if you learn about their development process) and UC2 is the pinnacle that hasn't been topped yet.

UC4 isn't a bad game per se, I just don't like the gloomy atmosphere. Even the menu music is depressing and not as cheery as it should be. That belongs in the TLOU universe, not Uncharted's.

I guess Druckmann's great success with TLOU made him really arrogant... they didn't even expect it. I still remember TLOU's day 1 game cover saying "by the same team that made Uncharted". They thought it would flop. And maybe it should have flopped (blasphemy, I know).

Don't get me wrong, I like TLOU as much as I like UC2 (including their MP components), I just don't like the fact that it changed ND so much in a bad way.


I don't consider Zoran Lazarević a "generic bad guy".

Nadine on the other hand? Oh boy, where do I even start? The fact that Amy admitted Nadine wasn't even in her script says a lot IMHO.

Uncharted 4 ended on a bad note and The Lost Legacy made it even worse. Nadine became even more annoying there and you have to see all the optional dialogues to understand why I'm saying this.

It's not really surprising if you find out who wrote the TLL script.

I hope they'll never make an Uncharted 5, unless they bring Amy Hennig back (unlikely to happen).


Originally it was an old man, not a woman.

"Q: You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?

A: When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.”

Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”"

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/uncharted-4-director-neil-druckmann-on-nathan-drake-sexism-in-games-43705/
I like Uncharted 1-3 a lot, in fact I love 2, but to me they were all games that didn't quite live up to their fullest potential (although 2 came the closest), 4 is the one for me that I can't point to any major flaws. (I've never played the MP however)

One thing I didn't like about the other games is the vagueness of the stories when they would veer into semi-supernatural territory (spoilers ahead), UC1 has the dumb plot twist of the island being populated by monster dudes, UC2 has Shamballa containing a magical tree with blue sap that when you eat it turns you into a monster dude and 3 has, well who knows what was going in 3, it was the vaguest of them all with a plot point that is totally dropped (the thing with the tarot cards)

The semi-supernatural stuff just felt out of place to me and never gelled well with the other elements and it was always so vague and unexplained, why was there a mummy that turns people into monsters? Why was there a magical tree? It should have stayed focused on treasure hunting, meanwhile in UC4 Libertalia became forgotten simply because everyone got real greedy over the treasure and killed each other, no monsters needed, to me, that's perfect.

And Nadine Ross and the Shoreline mercenaries were way less generic than the evil Russian bad guys in Uncharted 2, if you look at the concept art for that one you can see hints that originally Nathan Drake would have been going up against the Chinese military, which would have made more sense given the setting and been a little less generic.

However, arbitrarily changing the old adventurer from male to female is a little dumb, but it's a minor element of the game, I'm ok with it being Drake's daughter though, she was cute.
 

Negotiator

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One thing I didn't like about the other games is the vagueness of the stories when they would veer into semi-supernatural territory (spoilers ahead), UC1 has the dumb plot twist of the island being populated by monster dudes, UC2 has Shamballa containing a magical tree with blue sap that when you eat it turns you into a monster dude and 3 has, well who knows what was going in 3, it was the vaguest of them all with a plot point that is totally dropped (the thing with the tarot cards)

The semi-supernatural stuff just felt out of place to me and never gelled well with the other elements and it was always so vague and unexplained, why was there a mummy that turns people into monsters? Why was there a magical tree? It should have stayed focused on treasure hunting, meanwhile in UC4 Libertalia became forgotten simply because everyone got real greedy over the treasure and killed each other, no monsters needed, to me, that's perfect.
I liked the supernatural twist and I've even played the djinn part on Crushing which admittedly is batshit insane, lol. Different strokes for different folks.

So yeah, I expected to see pirate ghosts in UC4 and there was nothing to be seen... spoiler alert: you'll find a "substitute" if you play Survival Co-op (beware though, it gives a new meaning to "bullet sponge enemies").

Setpiece-wise UC4 didn't really impress me and we all know that the PS4 is far more capable than the PS3 when it comes to physics/destruction simulation.

I guess the change in direction influenced the game more than it should and cutbacks were inevitable.
 

The Alien

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UC4 had it's flaws but allround it was pretty good. I'd take its slower paced, lack of monsters story anyday over the nonsensical, incoherent plot of UC3 (that was written by Hennig).
UC4 is on my backlog and am excited to play it.

I am hoping it's a return to series form since I loathed UC3. I often wonder if, after UC3, that's when ND decided she didnt have 'it' anymore and cut her loose.
 

Geki-D

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UC4 is on my backlog and am excited to play it.

I am hoping it's a return to series form since I loathed UC3. I often wonder if, after UC3, that's when ND decided she didnt have 'it' anymore and cut her loose.
It really isn't much of a return to form. It's slower paced and lacks the paranormal stuff but it's plot is probably the best written. Plenty of people hate it for the pace but it's really not that bad and at least each scene and location actually feels like a continuation from the next, unlike UC3 which is a stitched together mess.

As for Hennig, I really think Bruce Straley & Neil Druckmann were unpleased with what she did for UC3, looked at her work for UC4 and said "this is just trash". Not that they'll ever say as much.

She gets a lot of credit for the UC series but on Drake's Fortune she was one of three writers, same on UC2. UC3 was the one where she was all alone (no doubt ND had too much faith in her capabilities) and it's the one with the worst writing in the series (she had nothing to do with Golden Abyss and TLOU).

So when she's not backed up by 2 other writers she falls flat on her face. I'm really not familiar with her other works (I hear they're good) but UC is a poor example of what she can do.
 

Cranberrys

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It really isn't much of a return to form. It's slower paced and lacks the paranormal stuff but it's plot is probably the best written. Plenty of people hate it for the pace but it's really not that bad and at least each scene and location actually feels like a continuation from the next, unlike UC3 which is a stitched together mess.

As for Hennig, I really think Bruce Straley & Neil Druckmann were unpleased with what she did for UC3, looked at her work for UC4 and said "this is just trash". Not that they'll ever say as much.

She gets a lot of credit for the UC series but on Drake's Fortune she was one of three writers, same on UC2. UC3 was the one where she was all alone (no doubt ND had too much faith in her capabilities) and it's the one with the worst writing in the series (she had nothing to do with Golden Abyss and TLOU).

So when she's not backed up by 2 other writers she falls flat on her face. I'm really not familiar with her other works (I hear they're good) but UC is a poor example of what she can do.
Well, it's a matter of taste I guess because UC3 is my favorite episode, even if I like very much the whole serie, I loved UC3.
 

mckmas8808

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It really isn't much of a return to form. It's slower paced and lacks the paranormal stuff but it's plot is probably the best written. Plenty of people hate it for the pace but it's really not that bad and at least each scene and location actually feels like a continuation from the next, unlike UC3 which is a stitched together mess.

As for Hennig, I really think Bruce Straley & Neil Druckmann were unpleased with what she did for UC3, looked at her work for UC4 and said "this is just trash". Not that they'll ever say as much.

She gets a lot of credit for the UC series but on Drake's Fortune she was one of three writers, same on UC2. UC3 was the one where she was all alone (no doubt ND had too much faith in her capabilities) and it's the one with the worst writing in the series (she had nothing to do with Golden Abyss and TLOU).

So when she's not backed up by 2 other writers she falls flat on her face. I'm really not familiar with her other works (I hear they're good) but UC is a poor example of what she can do.
My take away from this post is maybe Uncharted shouldn't leave the writing to one person. It's when it was multiple writers is when it's done best.
 

Negotiator

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My take away from this post is maybe Uncharted shouldn't leave the writing to one person. It's when it was multiple writers is when it's done best.
Uncharted The Lost Legacy had multiple writers* and its writing is "cringey" at best.

Have you played it? If so, have you seen all the optional dialogues?

I did and I didn't like many things about it... let's just say that Nadine (a character that did NOT exist in Amy's script) is the most annoying Uncharted character by far and they portray Sam (an annoying character in UC4) as a weak mangina. I don't like him, but I felt pity for him.

* https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

We know for a fact that Amy left due to "creative differences" (a polite way to say that she most likely clashed with Druckmann and his pandering to a certain audience).

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind black characters when they're done right (Quantum Break has Martin Hatch, props to Remedy for that), but I don't have to necessarily like it when they inject a forced, badly-written black character down my throat. I hope you understand the difference.

The fact that I trust a woman (Amy) more than a man (Druckmann) for the script should also tell you if I'm a "sexist" or not... I know we're not on QQera, just want to make things clear and not have any misunderstandings (very common on an internet forum).

I enjoyed UC3 way more than UC4, even though it's not the best in the series (UC2 is still the pinnacle). UC4's dreary and serious tone is depressing as fuck for a light-hearted IP (Uncharted is not TLOU).
 

mckmas8808

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Uncharted The Lost Legacy had multiple writers* and its writing is "cringey" at best.

Have you played it? If so, have you seen all the optional dialogues?

I did and I didn't like many things about it... let's just say that Nadine (a character that did NOT exist in Amy's script) is the most annoying Uncharted character by far and they portray Sam (an annoying character in UC4) as a weak mangina. I don't like him, but I felt pity for him.

* https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

We know for a fact that Amy left due to "creative differences" (a polite way to say that she most likely clashed with Druckmann and his pandering to a certain audience).

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind black characters when they're done right (Quantum Break has Martin Hatch, props to Remedy for that), but I don't have to necessarily like it when they inject a forced, badly-written black character down my throat. I hope you understand the difference.

The fact that I trust a woman (Amy) more than a man (Druckmann) for the script should also tell you if I'm a "sexist" or not... I know we're not on QQera, just want to make things clear and not have any misunderstandings (very common on an internet forum).

I enjoyed UC3 way more than UC4, even though it's not the best in the series (UC2 is still the pinnacle). UC4's dreary and serious tone is depressing as fuck for a light-hearted IP (Uncharted is not TLOU).
Why do you like to add such terrible takes into your post? Are you doing this on purpose for clout and NeoGaf fame? All the bolded stuff made me want to cringe when I read it. Like......wat?!
 

Negotiator

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Why do you like to add such terrible takes into your post? Are you doing this on purpose for clout and NeoGaf fame? All the bolded stuff made me want to cringe when I read it. Like......wat?!
I'm giving an honest opinion. I guess that bothers you? I'm not going to be politically correct just to please people like you. You know, there's another forum for that...

I gave plenty of arguments that you dismissed... oh well, good riddance. Not going to waste my precious time any further.
 
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Sam was anything but a "mangina" (seriously, what?) I mean the problems in UC4 were Nadine existing and Nate's i'm sorry dear escapade in libertalia lol (BUT to be fair, nate did screw Elena over, she's not a bad character for sure). And they re-writ drake having a son into having a daughter for no reason. I said it before but Hennig should've stayed in charge for this game.

But sam...? I mean he's his own man... I don't really like him particularly but to call his character weak is quite an odd choice.
 
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Negotiator

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Sam was anything but a "mangina" (seriously, what?) I mean the problems in UC4 were Nadine existing and Nate's i'm sorry dear escapade in libertalia lol. And they re-writ drake having a son into having a daughter for no reason. I said it before but Hennig should've stayed in charge for this game.

But sam...? I mean he's his own man... I don't really like him particularly but to call his character weak is quite an odd choice.
I'm going to ask you the same question that the previous poster refused to address (I wonder why):

Have you played Uncharted The Lost Legacy? If so, have you seen all the optional dialogues? (there's a trophy for that, so not many people will experience what I'm talking about)

I'm very clear about what I said.

Btw, I would easily bet $1000 that Amy's take on Sam would be far more interesting... too bad we'll never witness that and she's too tight-lipped about her script/vision.
 
Feb 15, 2018
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I'm going to ask you the same question that the previous poster refused to address (I wonder why):

Have you played Uncharted The Lost Legacy? If so, have you seen all the optional dialogues? (there's a trophy for that, so not many people will experience what I'm talking about)

I'm very clear about what I said.

Btw, I would easily bet $1000 that Amy's take on Sam would be far more interesting... too bad we'll never witness that and she's too tight-lipped about her script/vision.
No lol I never played the lost lesbians (that's more than a jab, I remember seeing some employees of ND posting a Chloe x Nadine pic) There's nothing weak about Sam's character in UC4, unless we're talking about his weak moral scale.
 

Negotiator

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No lol I never played the lost lesbians (that's more than a jab, I remember seeing some employees of ND posting a Chloe x Nadine pic) There's nothing weak about Sam's character in UC4, unless we're talking about his weak moral scale.
Remember what I said about misunderstandings above?

I specifically mentioned that he is a mangina in the Lost Legacy (which you haven't played and frankly you're not missing anything), not UC4. Maybe you should pay more attention to my posts. :)

And the script was written by a self-proclaimed SJW: https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

I know he's not the only one, there are couple of other guys as well, but all ND devs have to share the same "liberal" beliefs these days.

They pander to a certain audience. Sorry if the truth bothers anyone!
 

mckmas8808

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I'm giving an honest opinion. I guess that bothers you? I'm not going to be politically correct just to please people like you. You know, there's another forum for that...

I gave plenty of arguments that you dismissed... oh well, good riddance. Not going to waste my precious time any further.
It's not about being "Politically Correct". They are just terrible takes. Just because you don't like one black character in a game doesn't warrant you saying this.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind black characters when they're done right (Quantum Break has Martin Hatch, props to Remedy for that), but I don't have to necessarily like it when they inject a forced, badly-written black character down my throat.
Like WTH man?! Down your throat? Really? I do like her as a character, but that's not the point.



And your take on Sam is just horrible. You clearly used the word "mangina" for a reason.
 

mckmas8808

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Remember what I said about misunderstandings above?

I specifically mentioned that he is a mangina in the Lost Legacy (which you haven't played and frankly you're not missing anything), not UC4. Maybe you should pay more attention to my posts. :)

And the script was written by a self-proclaimed SJW: https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

I know he's not the only one, there are couple of other guys as well, but all ND devs have to share the same "liberal" beliefs these days.

They pander to a certain audience. Sorry if the truth bothers anyone!
OH! I see. You're an "Anti-SJW" type guy. Okay......nevermind. No need to explain further. You're fighting the GOOD FIGHT!
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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OH! I see. You're an "Anti-SJW" type guy. Okay......nevermind. No need to explain further. You're fighting the GOOD FIGHT!
They don't seem like an "anti-SJW" type, they just seem like someone with a brain. Nadine was a terribly written character that was pushed to pander to political ideologues who wanted more "diversity" of strong, minority women. They then denigrate Sam throughout and make him into a weaker character than he was in 4. This is obvious to anyone who played the game.

However, you are a self-proclaimed "SJW" and are going to try and continue to, in your words, "fight the GOOD FIGHT!" Good luck with that.
 
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John Lee Packard

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I didn't get the impression that they were slamming Sam in Lost Legacy at all.

And I didn't mind Nadine, sure, she was there for the diversity, but I don't think her addition really hurt the game, even if she didn't "need" to be there, her kicking Drake's ass was kinda funny to be honest.

Yes there was some SJW flavoring in UC4 and LL but I thought it was all generally pretty mild, nothing that stuck out to me as too out of place.

Sometimes you have to just roll with it, it's only a big problem when it really sticks out like a sore thumb.

At the end of the day Chloe still had a pretty nice badonkadonk you spent the entirety of LL staring at, if ND were truly hardcore SJWs you wouldn't even get that.
 

sahlberg

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So Amy Hennig was pushed out before UC4? Maybe that is why the magic is gone in UC4?

I liked UC1, it was flawed byt groundbreaking. I replay it at times.
UC2 was the zenith. It was soo good.
UC3 just felt like the by numbers sequel, same thing but do it harder, make it more spectacular, in every scene. I never replayed it. I liked the MP though.

UC4. I finished it. Will not replay it. Will not platinum it. It is technically impressive. It is super beautiful.
But I just feel I don't care. If Nathan lives or dies I just don't care. I tried the MP for 5-10 minutes and decided, nah
this is still no for me.

The magic is gone. Amy should be proud she was not part of UC4.
 
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Negotiator

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They don't seem like an "anti-SJW" type, they just seem like someone with a brain. Nadine was a terribly written character that was pushed to pander to political ideologues who wanted more "diversity" of strong, minority women. They then denigrate Sam throughout and make him into a weaker character than he was in 4. This is obvious to anyone who played the game.

However, you are a self-proclaimed "SJW" and are going to try and continue to, in your words, "fight the GOOD FIGHT!" Good luck with that.
What's funny is that Josh Scherr called himself a "SJW". I even gave proof about it: https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

Not to mention the gender pronouns... not my fault that he makes it obvious enough to everyone.

I understand that black people (among others) feel "oppressed" and thus they're willing to side with left authoritarians/populists, but I don't have to like authoritarianism, whether it comes from the left or the right.

Just because someone doesn't like SJWs, doesn't mean they're anti-SJWs. I don't like the GG crowd either. What does that make me?

Just because someone doesn't like libtards, doesn't mean they like republicans.

Divide and conquer is their strategy: https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/956/597/f57.jpg

I didn't get the impression that they were slamming Sam in Lost Legacy at all.
As I said, you need to pay close attention to all the optional dialogues.

And I didn't mind Nadine, sure, she was there for the diversity, but I don't think her addition really hurt the game, even if she didn't "need" to be there, her kicking Drake's ass was kinda funny to be honest.
"You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?

When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.”

Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”

You have some sexist focus testers who were really upset by Nadine beating up Nate, and really upset at the end when it was Nate’s daughter. To the point where we had to ask one guy to leave. In his core, it just affected him. He was cursing, “Not you, too, Naughty Dog! Goddammit. I guess I’m done with Uncharted if you guys ever make another one, with his daughter. This fucking bullshit.” And I was like, Wow, why does that matter?"

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/uncharted-4-director-neil-druckmann-on-nathan-drake-sexism-in-games-43705/

Should I feel sorry that I don't like extremists like Anita and her ilk? I don't like religious zealots either. SJWism is a modern religion.

Yes there was some SJW flavoring in UC4 and LL but I thought it was all generally pretty mild, nothing that stuck out to me as too out of place.
It becomes worse in every single game.

This trend started with TLOU Left Behind DLC. They're trying to shove things down your throat and E3 2018 is a testament to that.

Yes, UC1/2/3 also had heterosexual romance scenes between Drake and Elena/Chloe, but they NEVER made it the forefront of any E3 presentation. Ever wondered why?

But they decided to make a lesbian kiss the forefront of E3 2018... why? And why would you spoil it for LGBT fans? The only plausible explanation is that they wanted to score some "woke points".

"Hurr durr ND is soooo progressive!" Yeah, right...

I don't even believe them when they say they're "feminists", especially when they cover up serious scandals:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/former-naughty-dog-employee-named-in-sexual-harassment-claim.41697/

Sometimes you have to just roll with it, it's only a big problem when it really sticks out like a sore thumb.
Just wait for TLOU2. Virtue signalling will go up to eleven.

At the end of the day Chloe still had a pretty nice badonkadonk you spent the entirety of LL staring at, if ND were truly hardcore SJWs you wouldn't even get that.
UC TLL Chloe is a butterface:


UC2 Chloe had the whole package.

Which Chloe is the best?

This trend of injecting ugliness for NO apparent reason gets really annoying...

Not to mention that they changed her ethnicity from Australian to Indian for god knows what reason:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202464-uncharted-the-lost-legacy/75729830

The way I see it, Druckmann and Co have zero respect for Amy's lore. They literally piss on it. Sad.

As I said, TLOU2 will make it even worse. Just wait.
 
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John Lee Packard

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What's funny is that Josh Scherr called himself a "SJW". I even gave proof about it: https://twitter.com/joshscherr/with_replies

Not to mention the gender pronouns... not my fault that he makes it obvious enough to everyone.

I understand that black people (among others) feel "oppressed" and thus they're willing to side with left authoritarians/populists, but I don't have to like authoritarianism, whether it comes from the left or the right.

Just because someone doesn't like SJWs, doesn't mean they're anti-SJWs. I don't like the GG crowd either. What does that make me?

Just because someone doesn't like libtards, doesn't mean they like republicans.

Divide and conquer is their strategy: https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/956/597/f57.jpg


As I said, you need to pay close attention to all the optional dialogues.



"You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?

When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.”

Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”

You have some sexist focus testers who were really upset by Nadine beating up Nate, and really upset at the end when it was Nate’s daughter. To the point where we had to ask one guy to leave. In his core, it just affected him. He was cursing, “Not you, too, Naughty Dog! Goddammit. I guess I’m done with Uncharted if you guys ever make another one, with his daughter. This fucking bullshit.” And I was like, Wow, why does that matter?"

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/uncharted-4-director-neil-druckmann-on-nathan-drake-sexism-in-games-43705/

Should I feel sorry that I don't like extremists like Anita and her ilk? I don't like religious zealots either. SJWism is a modern religion.


It becomes worse in every single game.

This trend started with TLOU Left Behind DLC. They're trying to shove things down your throat and E3 2018 is a testament to that.

Yes, UC1/2/3 also had heterosexual romance scenes between Drake and Elena/Chloe, but they NEVER made it the forefront of any E3 presentation. Ever wondered why?

But they decided to make a lesbian kiss the forefront of E3 2018... why? And why would you spoil it for LGBT fans? The only plausible explanation is that they wanted to score some "woke points".

"Hurr durr ND is soooo progressive!" Yeah, right...

I don't even believe them when they say they're "feminists", especially when they cover up serious scandals:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/former-naughty-dog-employee-named-in-sexual-harassment-claim.41697/


Just wait for TLOU2. Virtue signalling will go up to eleven.


UC TLL Chloe is a butterface:


UC2 Chloe had the whole package.

Which Chloe is the best?

This trend of injecting ugliness for NO apparent reason gets really annoying...

Not to mention that they changed her ethnicity from Australian to Indian for god knows what reason:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202464-uncharted-the-lost-legacy/75729830

The way I see it, Druckmann and Co have zero respect for Amy's lore. They literally piss on it. Sad.

As I said, TLOU2 will make it even worse. Just wait.
I don't like it either but it's just the way western devs operate nowadays, you have to take a glass half full approach, if you're going to dismiss a game just because it has some SJW shit in it then you'll be skipping the majority of games released these days.

To me it's just a matter of degrees, I can handle a little SJW stuff even if I don't really like it, so long as it doesn't overwhelm the overall game, so long as the game in question is still good despite these aspects.

You gotta learn to just laugh some of this shit off, because getting angry about it is literally what they want you do, it's why they put this shit in games in the first place, so don't let them win.

To me Nadine kicking Nate's ass was just something to laugh off, yeah it's stupid, yeah it was really fucking obvious, but that's why it was funny.

She's barely in UC4 when all things are said and done, it was a minor issue in an overall excellent game.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the SJW trend dies soon, but in the meantime I won't let the bastards win and allow them to ruin my fun, I still enjoy playing video games, even when I have to roll my eyes at some things.
 

Negotiator

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I don't like it either but it's just the way western devs operate nowadays, you have to take a glass half full approach, if you're going to dismiss a game just because it has some SJW shit in it then you'll be skipping the majority of games released these days.

To me it's just a matter of degrees, I can handle a little SJW stuff even if I don't really like it, so long as it doesn't overwhelm the overall game, so long as the game in question is still good despite these aspects.

You gotta learn to just laugh some of this shit off, because getting angry about it is literally what they want you do, it's why they put this shit in games in the first place, so don't let them win.

To me Nadine kicking Nate's ass was just something to laugh off, yeah it's stupid, yeah it was really fucking obvious, but that's why it was funny.

She's barely in UC4 when all things are said and done, it was a minor issue in an overall excellent game.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the SJW trend dies soon, but in the meantime I won't let the bastards win and allow them to ruin my fun, I still enjoy playing video games, even when I have to roll my eyes at some things.
Don't get me wrong, TLOU2 gameplay seems top notch and I'm looking forward to see what they're cooking for the MP as well.

The only reason I'm still playing western video games is because of the gameplay, storytelling went downhill since 2014 at least. I don't watch Hollywood movies anymore for the same reason, not even for free via torrents. That should tell you that much.

I'm only criticizing the story and certain controversial choices that they make (like, for example, hiring a trans Asian actor that hates white people on Twitter). Bigotry should not be tolerated, even when it comes from the left. Too bad there are many hypocrites out there.

I'm gonna buy it used, since most people only care about finishing the story ASAP and they don't even try the MP.

Yeah, I know that one used copy won't make a dent to their profits, but it's the least I can do.

If the MP is trash, I'll just sell it and get my money back. I also don't plan to spend money on MTX.
 

mckmas8808

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They don't seem like an "anti-SJW" type, they just seem like someone with a brain. Nadine was a terribly written character that was pushed to pander to political ideologues who wanted more "diversity" of strong, minority women. They then denigrate Sam throughout and make him into a weaker character than he was in 4. This is obvious to anyone who played the game.

However, you are a self-proclaimed "SJW" and are going to try and continue to, in your words, "fight the GOOD FIGHT!" Good luck with that.
It's clear when people are "anti-sjw" when they see one single black person in a game and then claim the sole reason that person existed in the game was for "Diversity" purposes. I see the bull all the time and it's easily noticeable. There's literally no reason for Nadine's character to be a white dude. Would it have made more sense for the character to be a guy? Like I don't get it. Why do people care about her race and gender so much?
 

DeepEnigma

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I dream of a day I can sit down with Amy Hennig and pick her brain from Blood Omen/LoK series, all the way to Uncharted. Especially 4 in confidence.

One of my favorite game designers/pioneers.
 
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Fox Mulder

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I didn't get the impression that they were slamming Sam in Lost Legacy at all.

And I didn't mind Nadine, sure, she was there for the diversity, but I don't think her addition really hurt the game, even if she didn't "need" to be there, her kicking Drake's ass was kinda funny to be honest.

Yes there was some SJW flavoring in UC4 and LL but I thought it was all generally pretty mild, nothing that stuck out to me as too out of place.

Sometimes you have to just roll with it, it's only a big problem when it really sticks out like a sore thumb.

At the end of the day Chloe still had a pretty nice badonkadonk you spent the entirety of LL staring at, if ND were truly hardcore SJWs you wouldn't even get that.
I didn't even think sjw agenda about Nadine, she's just a poor character in the game and it suffers a bit. Her ass beatings had no payoff really, I thought there'd be more to it. I had also just finished UC3 where villains feel outright unfinished. Marlowe and Talbot have massive story plot holes and dropped elements that impacted the ending greatly for me too.
 

Geki-D

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My name is not Druckmann, sweetheart.
You sure? All your posts in this thread are political. It's a thread about an Amy Hennig. You're injecting politics into this thread. Practice what you preach, maybe?
 

Negotiator

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You sure? All your posts in this thread are political. It's a thread about an Amy Hennig. You're injecting politics into this thread. Practice what you preach, maybe?
Are you dumb or what?

Amy Hennig left due to having "creative differences" with Druckmann. How is that my fault? I'm only mentioning facts. Sorry if that annoys you.

There's no need to sugarcoat it. And I'm pretty sure I have logged more hours than you in Uncharted 4.

Not going to argue with idiots anymore. Neeeeext...
 

Geki-D

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Amy Hennig left due to having "creative differences" with Druckmann.
lol The fuck does this have to do with gender politics? You got receipts proving it does, my dude?

Get the fuck outta here with that transparent bullshit :messenger_grinning_squinting: You're like one of those crazies who sees a fly land on Obama's hand and says it proves he's Satan. Hennig getting the boot because she was against apparent gender politics being inserted into the game is just your conspiracy theory.
 
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It's clear when people are "anti-sjw" when they see one single black person in a game and then claim the sole reason that person existed in the game was for "Diversity" purposes. I see the bull all the time and it's easily noticeable. There's literally no reason for Nadine's character to be a white dude. Would it have made more sense for the character to be a guy? Like I don't get it. Why do people care about her race and gender so much?
Its got nothing to do with Nadine being black. Context is everything. Your avatar suits you for sure.

She is a 150lb or less woman beating up a character that has taken down huge men twice his size and has ridiculous survival feats. And she fights off him and Sam at the same time, no less. The Nadine fights make no sense within the context of the series.

The issue is you make an already established character look far worse than in previous instances for the sake of identity politics.
 

Aurelian

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And Nadine Ross and the Shoreline mercenaries were way less generic than the evil Russian bad guys in Uncharted 2, if you look at the concept art for that one you can see hints that originally Nathan Drake would have been going up against the Chinese military, which would have made more sense given the setting and been a little less generic.
Not disagreeing with the basic premise here, but I'd say that Shoreline is a bit generic in that, surprise, they're South African mercenaries. That's a frequent trope in movies (see: Andy Serkis and crew in Black Panther).
 

Negotiator

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Anyways I hope Hennig gets at least one chance to make a game she wants next gen. Seems like she just had bad luck with EA.
If you read her interviews, you'll see that she's in favor of shorter, linear experiences (7th gen), not open world collectathons (8th gen), let alone GaaS products.

I'm afraid she doesn't have a place in this industry anymore and trust me, it saddens my heart to say this.

I'd love to see her return at Sony and be in charge of Uncharted 5, but this is extremely unlikely to happen... she left for a reason and she's not going to compromise her script/creative vision to appease certain people.

EA was a bad choice IMHO.
 
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NickFire

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https://www.usgamer.net/articles/amy-hennig-interview-uncharted-4-leaving-ea-ragtag-star-wars

Amy Hennig always speaks her mind. At the DICE Summit in Las Vegas, Nevada last week, the first thing that came to the former Uncharted and Legacy of Kain series director when asked about the development of Michael Jordan: Chaos in the Windy City in the early '90s was that "there was a lot of cocaine at EA during that time. I wasn't indulging in any of it."
replace EA with hollywood, and that's the same quote I say when trying to describe horror movie continuity during the late 80's / early 90's. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

wutnau

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Anyways I hope Hennig gets at least one chance to make a game she wants next gen. Seems like she just had bad luck with EA.
I like to shit on EA as much as the next guy, so not trying to defend them as such. But reading up on "Project Ragtag" after it was cancelled, I can't help but to feel she was trying to do a Naughty Dog game - without Naughty Dog tech and Naughty Dog staff (say what you will about their games, but the engine is great and they employ some frightfully talented programmers/great animators and artists). As such, I think the project was a bit doomed from the start.
 
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I like to shit on EA as much as the next guy, so not trying to defend them as such. But reading up on "Project Ragtag" after it was cancelled, I can't help but to feel she was trying to do a Naughty Dog game - without Naughty Dog tech and Naughty Dog staff (say what you will about their games, but the engine is great and they employ some frightfully talented programmers/great animators and artists). As such, I can't help but to feel the project was a bit doomed from the start.
Yeah, seems like development tools were sub par for that kind of game. I think she said uc1 had better tools than frostbite lol.
 

Negotiator

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I like to shit on EA as much as the next guy, so not trying to defend them as such. But reading up on "Project Ragtag" after it was cancelled, I can't help but to feel she was trying to do a Naughty Dog game - without Naughty Dog tech and Naughty Dog staff (say what you will about their games, but the engine is great and they employ some frightfully talented programmers/great animators and artists). As such, I think the project was a bit doomed from the start.
Yeah, she thought EA could replace ND, but she couldn't be more wrong.

Not to mention that EA is too focused on GaaS these days...
 

mckmas8808

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Its got nothing to do with Nadine being black. Context is everything. Your avatar suits you for sure.

She is a 150lb or less woman beating up a character that has taken down huge men twice his size and has ridiculous survival feats. And she fights off him and Sam at the same time, no less. The Nadine fights make no sense within the context of the series.

The issue is you make an already established character look far worse than in previous instances for the sake of identity politics.
You mean characters in video games do things that are hard to believe if they happened in real life?!?!?! I'm shocked! :messenger_face_screaming::messenger_face_screaming::messenger_face_screaming:

Have you seen Drake climbing in Uncharted? Have you seen the things that Nathan can pull off in his own game?!







And you blame it Nadine fighting two dudes and beating them on identity politics? Yet Nathan Drake can climb mountains with his bare hands and make 30 foot jumps at will with equipment on his body! Just think about what you're saying here. Be smarter bro.

If you read her interviews, you'll see that she's in favor of shorter, linear experiences (7th gen), not open world collectathons (8th gen), let alone GaaS products.

I'm afraid she doesn't have a place in this industry anymore and trust me, it saddens my heart to say this.

I'd love to see her return at Sony and be in charge of Uncharted 5, but this is extremely unlikely to happen... she left for a reason and she's not going to compromise her script/creative vision to appease certain people.

EA was a bad choice IMHO.
There are plenty of places for her. EA was just the wrong place. The industry still needs Amy and has alot of room for her.
 
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You're just proving my point, he can do all that but skinny chick has his number in a fight? I thought about it plenty, "bro". Nate is written as an unrealistic daredevil borderline invincible character and Nadine was specifically written to take him and all male characters involved down a peg.

Obviously they're fictional characters but the limits were already in place ; you never saw Chloe beating down on a 350 pound meat mountain in uc2/3.

If for example Elena had a berserk mode in uc1 and started beating on dudes, I could accept Nadine as being something other than pure pandering.
 

John Lee Packard

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Not disagreeing with the basic premise here, but I'd say that Shoreline is a bit generic in that, surprise, they're South African mercenaries. That's a frequent trope in movies (see: Andy Serkis and crew in Black Panther).
Not saying they aren't still a little generic in their own way, just way less than generic than the Russians in the second game.
 
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but storylines are among the last things I care about in games. It's all about graphics, gameplay, and some solid modes to keep me interested.

Unless a writer wants to be a rebel and actually write something unique (like that cool and fucked up Memento movie, or pumped up cop movie NARC (don't laugh Butsa Rhymes was great), I wouldn't give people like video game writers Amy Hennig the time of day.

Put it this way gamers, out of all the action/RPG kinds of games you've played in life, how many of them truly had awesome dialogue, Oscar worthy plots, and wasn't the usual "Weak dork vs. waves of enemies and Kill King Boss = You Win" plot? Hardly any.
 
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Vader1

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EA shut down the Amy Hennig/Visceral Games Star Wars game because it was too linear for them.

Uncharted 4 was probably the best in the series story wise, what they could have worked on a lot more were the shooting sections imo.
 
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Vader1

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Tbh I think that if Nadine were a male character, there probably wouldn't be nearly as much backlash.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Maybe I'm in the minority, but storylines are among the last things I care about in games. It's all about graphics, gameplay, and some solid modes to keep me interested.

Unless a writer wants to be a rebel and actually write something unique (like that cool and fucked up Memento movie, or pumped up cop movie NARC (don't laugh Butsa Rhymes was great), I wouldn't give people like video game writers Amy Hennig the time of day.

Put it this way gamers, out of all the action/RPG kinds of games you've played in life, how many of them truly had awesome dialogue, Oscar worthy plots, and wasn't the usual "Weak dork vs. waves of enemies and Kill King Boss = You Win" plot? Hardly any.
I certainly remember Soul Reaver, ICO, SotC, TLG, Gravity Rush 1/2, Uncharted, Beyond, Heavy Rain, Uncharted (all series), Shenmue I/II, Marvel Spider-man, God of War 2018, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island 1/2/3, MGS 1/2/3/4/5, Silent Hill 1/2/3/4, FF 7/8/10/11, Zelda TOoT, etc... very fondly and story, characterisation, atmosphere, dialogue helped prop them up and make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

It does not mean I do not like gameplay focused titles in and of themselves (Lumines, Columns, Crazy Taxi, Final Fight, Virtua Fighter, Resogun, SSHD, DriveClub, NMS, Ridge Racer, Zaxxon, etc...) either though...
 

tassletine

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Why do you like to add such terrible takes into your post? Are you doing this on purpose for clout and NeoGaf fame? All the bolded stuff made me want to cringe when I read it. Like......wat?!
Makes me cringe when people write wat? Why do you do that? For clout?