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The Biden Gun Plan

Dec 8, 2018
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Notice how all of the weird shit like Red Flag laws, taxing existing owners and banning online sales (which already have to go through a federally licensed firearms dealer) gets lumped under common sense measures. I don't agree with bans but I would be okay with like a mandatory safety class where you have to be cleared by an NRA instructor or something before purchasing an assault weapon for non-military or law enforcement first time buyers. I was just at the range today and some idiot nearly shot me in the head by pointing his AR my way for a fucking selfie.
Yeah that's the kind of thing that gets you a lifetime ban at the range I go to
 

HeresJohnny

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Notice how all of the weird shit like Red Flag laws, taxing existing owners and banning online sales (which already have to go through a federally licensed firearms dealer) gets lumped under common sense measures. I don't agree with bans but I would be okay with like a mandatory safety class where you have to be cleared by an NRA instructor or something before purchasing an assault weapon for non-military or law enforcement first time buyers. I was just at the range today and some idiot nearly shot me in the head by pointing his AR my way for a fucking selfie.
Yep there are way too many idiots who don't know the first thing about handling and firing a firearm. I was at a range in Arizona called Ben Avery and they have strict cease fires, when the range is hot no one can step in front of the red safety line. I've had guys point the gun in my direction when they get a jam, even had a guy's kid run downrange when it was hot. They don't mess around; they eject you instantly when that happens, but the point is there are a lot of dumbasses with guns.
 
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HeresJohnny

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What is an Assault Rifle? I want him to explain that to me.
He referred to a Glock pistol as a weapon of war (our military doesn't even carry Glock lol, they carried Beretta M9's for years and just recently switched to the Sig320), so your guess is as good as mine.
 
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Dec 8, 2018
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yo legit. The fuck? Its not illegal for you to have guns. If it is, im in trouble.
Generally speaking only PTSD sufferers who rate 100% (which is very rare and requires pretty constant medical care) are in danger of losing their gun rights. Unless they've also been declared mentally incompetent on top of the PTSD.
 

MrMephistoX

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Did he get kicked out? The range I go to does not fuck around. They've got three people constantly standing by to stop anyone who might be an idiot. I don't know if this is a new thing due to the massive increase in gun sales.

My problem with banning "assault weapons" is that there is no such thing. An "assault weapon" is whatever you want it to be.

Oh yeah he did but it was scary AF but some ranges are better than others. The dudes at this rang did not fuck around. But I was at one indoor one recently too where a dude was aiming his glock gangsta style, hit the target and then his girl hugged him from behind while his crew was shooting a video for "the gram" and the ROs didn't see it or didn't care.

I hear you on the assault weapons thing and I don't trust the Biden administration to come up with the criteria on how to define it...technically my AR is no longer an assault rifle in California because I have a hideous fin grip installed.
 
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Tajaz2426

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yo legit. The fuck? Its not illegal for you to have guns. If it is, im in trouble.
It’s not federal, but in 2013 South Carolina enacted a law that people with certain mental health disorders or was in a mental health institution for a gun relate issue cannot own one. However, we can get them back if we apply. I won’t however, as my mental health issues are too severe.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Oh yeah he did but it was scary AF but some ranges are better than others. The dudes at this rang did not fuck around. But I was at one indoor one recently too where a dude was aiming his glock gangsta style, hit the target and then his girl hugged him from behind while his crew was shooting a video for "the gram" and the ROs didn't see it or didn't care.

I hear you on the assault weapons thing and I don't trust the Biden administration to come up with the criteria on how to define it...technically my AR is no longer an assault rifle in California because I have a hideous fin grip installed.
It's so arbitrary and ridiculous these things they come up with to classify these weapons they clearly know nothing about. It still shoots 5.56, and they think a bayonet lug and a pistol grip make it less deadly lol.
 
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HeresJohnny

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It’s not federal, but in 2013 South Carolina enacted a law that people with certain mental health disorders or was in a mental health institution for a gun relate issue cannot own one. However, we can get them back if we apply. I won’t however, as my mental health issues are too severe.
That's a hell of a sacrifice to make on top of the sacrifice you already made. Thanks for your service.
 

MrMephistoX

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It's so arbitrary and ridiculous these things they come up with to classify these weapons they clearly know nothing about. It still shoots 5.56, and they think a bayonet lug and a pistol grip make it less deadly lol.

Thats honestly why I wish the NRA and other organizations got more proactive like the MPAA. Yes eventually all of this could get over-ruled by the Supremes but thats a long time to wait. Why not come up with a counter proposal instead of just saying "shall not be infringed!" and just appealing to gun nuts? Like seriously its a good time to go on a positive PR tour with this many new owners.


EDIT also I have found outdoor ranges are the best at enforcement: indoor not so much.
 
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O.v.e.rlord

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Generally speaking only PTSD sufferers who rate 100% (which is very rare and requires pretty constant medical care) are in danger of losing their gun rights. Unless they've also been declared mentally incompetent on top of the PTSD.

Huh, the more you know. Didn't know that.

See, that's what im trying to fi
It’s not federal, but in 2013 South Carolina enacted a law that people with certain mental health disorders or was in a mental health institution for a gun relate issue cannot own one. However, we can get them back if we apply. I won’t however, as my mental health issues are too severe.

Ouch sorry about that SSgt. question real quick, here in AZ, as long as i wasn't dragged to the mental health hospital. i was good to go. Is it the same up there?
 
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Tajaz2426

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Huh, the more you know. Didn't know that.

See, that's what im trying to fi


Ouch sorry about that SSgt. question real quick, here in AZ, as long as i wasn't dragged to the mental health hospital. i was good to go. Is it the same up there?
You should be fine, brother. Nothing to worry about.
 

Xdrive05

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Private gun ownership isn't going away, and neither is legalized abortion. Each issue can be worked on around the edges, but there's too much push back from the public (the base of each party) for any real ground to be gained with either cause. Both are wedge issues to get people worked up on both sides. Nothing more.

Doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, advocate to protect what you believe in. But don't believe the hype, either.
 
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diffusionx

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Thats honestly why I wish the NRA and other organizations got more proactive like the MPAA. Yes eventually all of this could get over-ruled by the Supremes but thats a long time to wait. Why not come up with a counter proposal instead of just saying "shall not be infringed!" and just appealing to gun nuts? Like seriously its a good time to go on a positive PR tour with this many new owners.


EDIT also I have found outdoor ranges are the best at enforcement: indoor not so much.

You don't get it my man. The counterproposal is SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Have you been conscious the past 50 years at any point? For liberals, their end goal is the complete removal of private gun ownership from society. They are working the long game, and the slippery slope is real as we have seen from a million of their pet issues. You cannot reason or bargain with these people, give them an inch and they will keep demanding more. The only viable proposal is "fuck you, pass an amendment."

Only the gun guys seem to understand this, which is why they are so hated in Republicuck circles.
 
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MrMephistoX

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You don't get it my man. The counterproposal is SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Have you been conscious the past 50 years at any point? For liberals, their end goal is the complete removal of private gun ownership from society. They are working the long game, and the slippery slope is real as we have seen from a million of their pet issues. You cannot reason or bargain with these people, give them an inch and they will keep demanding more. The only viable proposal is "fuck you, pass an amendment."

Only the gun guys seem to understand this, which is why they are so hated in Republicuck circles.

I agreed but it’s not a persuasive argument tactic for millions of new gun owners who aren’t up to speed. I’m not in favor of bans but I do agree with requiring background checks for everything not currently covered like private sales and for strengthening that system so police and the FBI talk to each other and can arrest potential threats with due process. Also you have to admit libtards and republicucks buy guns too: do you really want them to buy an AR without any safety training?
 
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diffusionx

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I agreed but it’s not a persuasive argument tactic for millions of new gun owners who aren’t up to speed. I’m not in favor of bans but I do agree with requiring background checks for everything not currently covered like private sales and for strengthening that system so police and the FBI talk to each other and can arrest potential threats with due process. Also you have to admit libtards and republicucks buy guns too: do you really want them to buy an AR without any safety training?

I don't know, I think SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED is a pretty clear and absolute argument, and those are the ones that tend to go over best.

Do I want people to buy ARs without training, no, do I want the government deciding what people can and cannot buy with their permission, also no. And I feel a lot stronger about the latter than the former, especially after what we saw from government in 2020.
 
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MrMephistoX

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I don't know, I think SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED is a pretty clear and absolute argument, and those are the ones that tend to go over best.

Do I want people to buy ARs without training, no, do I want the government deciding what people can and cannot buy with their permission, also no. And I feel a lot stronger about the latter than the former, especially after what we saw from government in 2020.

It’s like trying to win an argument with a line designed to shut down debate. All I’m saying is that making “shall not be infringed” the only line of argument and not countering with something like: “look we all agree mass shootings are abhorrent: it’s a mental health issue not a gun issue. Let’s work together to find a common sense bipartisan solution” basically leaves one side with a plan and the other side, the right side, without a seat at the table.
 

diffusionx

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It’s like trying to win an argument with a line designed to shut down debate. All I’m saying is that making “shall not be infringed” the only line of argument and not countering with something like: “look we all agree mass shootings are abhorrent: it’s a mental health issue not a gun issue. Let’s work together to find a common sense bipartisan solution” basically leaves one side with a plan and the other side, the right side, without a seat at the table.

Back to my original point: there is no "common sense bipartisan solution" because the left wants all guns banned. They're not going to accept these half measures. They're not going to stop just because you sit down, have a meeting, and agree to restrict peoples' Constitutional rights in a bipartisan way. Once you "sit at the table" and present "an opposing plan", you are buying into the left's frame of these events, that guns are a "problem" that need to be "dealt with." Even if you frame it as a "mental health issue", that's not how it is portrayed. We have seen it dozens of times at this point.

The debate really should be shut down, because this really is crystal clear. Pass an amendment or fuck off. That's the starting point.
 
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MrMephistoX

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Back to my original point: there is no "common sense bipartisan solution" because the left wants all guns banned. They're not going to accept these half measures. They're not going to stop just because you sit down, have a meeting, and agree to restrict peoples' Constitutional rights in a bipartisan way. Once you "sit at the table" and present "an opposing plan", you are buying into the left's frame of these events, that guns are a "problem" that need to be "dealt with." Even if you frame it as a "mental health issue", that's not how it is portrayed. We have seen it dozens of times at this point.

The debate really should be shut down, because this really is crystal clear. Pass an amendment or fuck off. That's the starting point.

Try to get that passed if Dems win all three houses. The Republicans need to come up with an alternative or they won’t have a voice in the discussion and the media certainly aren’t going to give them air time. There are millions of new owners out there and they don’t know half the shit that’s already on the books: it’s our job as gun owners to set the record straight and educate. But leaving the table with a fuck off solves nothing. Hell even Glock was smart enough to realize this in the 80’s by voluntarily including gun locks to stave off a semi-auto ban. Republicans just aren’t very good at winning legislative battles: look at Obamacare. They didn’t have an alternative and got their asses handed to them.
 
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diffusionx

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Try to get that passed if Dems win all three houses. The Republicans need to come up with an alternative or they won’t have a voice in the discussion and the media certainly aren’t going to give them air time. There are millions of new owners out there and they don’t know half the shit that’s already on the books: it’s our job as gun owners to set the record straight and educate. But leaving the table with a fuck off solves nothing.

A Democratic plan is illegitimate and unconstitutional - I don't see why that isn't a starting point. I don't see why you need to come to the table with a plan that may be somewhat less illegitimate and less unconstitutional.

Dems are going to steamroll the legitimate rights of Americans no matter what, a principled Republican (as opposed to a conservacuck, aka a liberal in disguise whose job it is to lose with the appearance of fighting) does not need to play into their rigged bullshit game.

If you watch Dems, you will see the scorched earth strategy the Dems roll out whenever anybody challenges their key pillars - Republicans need to take a hint. Would you ever see Dems "come to the table" on an abortion restriction law?
 
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MrMephistoX

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A Democratic plan is illegitimate and unconstitutional - I don't see why that isn't a starting point. I don't see why you need to come to the table with a plan that may be somewhat less illegitimate and less unconstitutional.

Dems are going to steamroll the legitimate rights of Americans no matter what, a principled Republican (as opposed to a conservacuck, aka a liberal in disguise whose job it is to lose with the appearance of fighting) does not need to play into their rigged bullshit game.

If you watch Dems, you will see the scorched earth strategy the Dems roll out whenever anybody challenges their key pillars - Republicans need to take a hint. Would you ever see Dems "come to the table" on an abortion restriction law?

Republicans just passed fix NICS recently. The NRA has advocated for allowing teachers to voluntarily carry in the classroom. Poor intra agency communication allowed the parkland shooter to buy his guns and mental health sucks in this country. Why not propose a plan that ACTUALLY fixes some problems and take that opportunity to win hearts and minds by showcasing actual victims of home invasions or AR15 owners who chose the platform because it has less recoil and danger of accidentally taking out the neighbors than a shotgun? Your approach doesn’t work: CA’s assault ban has been in effect for years and it will take a few more years to get heard by the supremes. Just walking away from the fight by saying “I refuse to argue: see you in court.” solves nothing.
 
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dave_d

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Yep there are way too many idiots who don't know the first thing about handling and firing a firearm. I was at a range in Arizona called Ben Avery and they have strict cease fires, when the range is hot no one can step in front of the red safety line. I've had guys point the gun in my direction when they get a jam, even had a guy's kid run downrange when it was hot. They don't mess around; they eject you instantly when that happens, but the point is there are a lot of dumbasses with guns.
Oh people are like that with bows too. Admittedly this was in high school but we were doing archery and shooting at a line of targets. Kids would actually run down to retrieve their arrows while other kids were still shooting. No the gym teacher didn't say anything.
 

Cutty Flam

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Since it didn't come up at any of the debates, I figured I would post a video from mrgunsngear showing exactly how intrusive into 2a liberties the Biden anti-gun agenda would be. I knew it would be bad, but I had no idea it would be this bad.




For a person who bought a standard Glock 19, the most popular handgun in America right now, you would have to pay over $800 to remain in compliance with the new laws they want to pass. I've always said they want to tax guns out of existence; essentially leave the 2a alone but make it so expensive for anyone but the elite to own them that the country is essentially severely disadvantaged when it comes to exercising their right to bear arms and that's exactly what this looks like.

To be fair, I don't only blame the debate moderators for not bringing this up; I blame Trump as well -- he's said Biden would destroy the 2nd Amendment, but he really didn't clarify on how, and while obviously he couldn't go into a 20 minute explanation as mrgunsngear here did, he still could've pointed out some of the more ridiculous claims on Biden's own site to show how invasive it would be.

Put simply, a vote for Biden is a vote against 2nd Amendment rights.
Biden would make a horrendous president for several reasons but this is one of the most alarming positions he takes
 
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I just heard about it now on fox, I'm surprised I missed all this before and it wasn't bigger news. Fuckin hell

This would be amazing, but it would never actually happen.
 

HeresJohnny

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This would be amazing, but it would never actually happen.
Why would making people pay an exorbitant tax on items they'd already purchased and paid tax on legally be amazing? Especially when it appears to be applied in blanket fashion with no regard to factual data (AR15s are not used in the vast majority of crimes or shootings). The magazine tax is fucking stupid and shows how clueless Biden is: magazines can be bought by anyone -- they aren't regulated in any way. There's literally no way for the federal government to track who owns what when it comes to mags.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.
Why is my owning a gun important to you? I'd rather not be told by some rando lib on a forum how I should protect myself or my family. On top of that, it's a constitutional protection, so why don't you vanish, Vanish?
 

Mista K

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Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.
Because all this is straight from a communist playbook
 

Flying Toaster

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Hey I am 100% for that. But like I said it would never actually happen. This country is far too fucked in the head to allow reasonable gun control.

It was sarcasm on my part. I am a strong advocate of some changes that many might see offensive. I personally do not like people open carrying small arms like they are bad ass cowboys. I believe in a sensible way that if you are running around with a sidearm at a local store or in a public area it could create stress for others around you. Sensible gun ownership means not being a dick.

I would like to see CCW polices implemented for taking handguns into stores.

That is a more extreme view than many are willing to accept and I know that. But honestly I would love to know people with hand guns at least show a gun range employee or gun store employee they know what they are doing, they can load them and they are not dumb asses.

Gun buybacks, taxation on certain weapon types that are not classified already I draw the line on.
 

HeresJohnny

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Because your question is bait and I'm not going to derail a thread on guns with posts about abortion.


Nice deflection though. I give it 6 "hell yeah brother!"s out of 10.
It's an attempt to have you see the logical fallacy of your assertion. If one believes that one constitutional right can and should be taxed, how would you be able to disagree with another? I don't agree with either, so I'm consistent in keeping government the fuck out of people's lives.
 
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HeresJohnny

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It was sarcasm on my part. I am a strong advocate of some changes that many might see offensive. I personally do not like people open carrying small arms like they are bad ass cowboys. I believe in a sensible way that if you are running around with a sidearm at a local store or in a public area it could create stress for others around you. Sensible gun ownership means not being a dick.

I would like to see CCW polices implemented for taking handguns into stores.

That is a more extreme view than many are willing to accept and I know that. But honestly I would love to know people with hand guns at least show a gun range employee or gun store employee they know what they are doing, they can load them and they are not dumb asses.

Gun buybacks, taxation on certain weapon types that are not classified already I draw the line on.
I am actually in agreement with you on open carry. There's literally no tactical benefit to it; I don't care if it makes people uncomfortable or not. If you are carrying open and someone comes in to pull some shit and sees that you are the only armed sheep in the room, guess who's getting shot first? Concealed carry is the best and most logical way to carry a gun, hands down.