The Biden Gun Plan

[OmegaSupreme]

Let's be real here guys. Biden ain't doing shit. He's going to sleep through the next 4 years and hand it over to the cop when he's done.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.

So the main reason I own an AR15 is that it’s easier to use and way more accurate than a handgun in my home for my wife in particular. They’re light, easy to aim and don’t have a lot of recoil like a shotgun. I lock it up with multiple failsafes including a safe, locked door, and magazine lock.

With a pistol in the home it’s way easier to miss than to get an assured hit with the AR15: bonus it looks scary but the bullets actually won’t hit my neighbors through a wall unlike many common pistol calibers which I have too.

Plus it’s just a fun hobby like golf without rich assholes.

 

[dcll]

No one is getting my ar-15 and 9mm. A majority of people I know have guns and feel strongly about their right to own them, best of luck. They also are not the ones being criminals and commiting crimes. Wait I know, if we make it for illegal then surely all the current criminals will listen

 

[Nobody_Important]

It's an attempt to have you see the logical fallacy of your assertion. If one believes that one constitutional right can and should be taxed, how would you be able to disagree with another? I don't agree with either, so I'm consistent in keeping government the fuck out of people's lives.

Interesting so you consider abortion to be a constitutional right?

Noted.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

You can want this all you want, call it amazing and glorious and dance in the street.

Just make sure you volunteer to be one of the people that goes out and enforces it. Volunteer to knock door to door like a Jehovah Witness and take the guns.

Don’t be a bitch and vote to send men and women to their deaths while you sit in front of the TV and tweet “Oh No! that such as shame law enforcement/soldiers are getting blown away... thoughts and prayers y’all”.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Interesting so you consider abortion to be a constitutional right?

Noted.

I consider it lawful and legal. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Plus it’s just a fun hobby like golf without rich assholes.

Target shooting is a blast. When I dial in an optic and take it out 3-400 yards it's incredibly satisfying hearing that ping of metal from that far away. When I go shoot a round of 5 stand with shotguns, it's more fun than any game I've ever played. I've never understood how so many people on a gaming forum can enjoy shooting games but not understand the appeal of target shooting in real life. It's baffling.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I consider it lawful and legal. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.

That's not quite the same as a constitutional right, but I guess I understand where you're coming from.

 

[HeresJohnny]

That's not quite the same as a constitutional right, but I guess I understand where you're coming from.

Correct, it's a right nonetheless. Although I should say that since the 2A is clearly enumerated in the constitution, its right is even more explicit than law like Roe is. I'm just using the two as a means of contrast (something the Right feels strongly about v. something the Left feels strongly about).

 

[Nobody_Important]

Target shooting is a blast. When I dial in an optic and take it out 3-400 yards it's incredibly satisfying hearing that ping of metal from that far away. When I go shoot a round of 5 stand with shotguns, it's more fun than any game I've ever played. I've never understood how so many people on a gaming forum can enjoy shooting games but not understand the appeal of target shooting in real life. It's baffling.

it probably has something to do with the fact where if someone is careless or stupid during target shooting someone could be seriously injured or even die. whereas if you are careless or stupid while playing a first-person shooter then the worst that can happen is you lose the match and get called several racial or homophobic slurs.

Looking at you call of duty.

 

[HeresJohnny]

it probably has something to do with the fact where if someone is careless or stupid during target shooting someone could be seriously injured or even die. whereas if you are careless or stupid while playing a first-person shooter then the worst that can happen is you lose the match and get called several racial or homophobic slurs.

Looking at you call of duty.

That has nothing to do with the fun factor. Shooting a fictional weapon and taking enjoyment from it and shooting the real thing and taking enjoyment from it are not mutually exclusive I would imagine. I love racing games and I'd totally dig getting behind the wheel of a race car and doing a few laps, even though it would be infinitely more dangerous than doing so in a game.

 

[Nobody_Important]

That has nothing to do with the fun factor. Shooting a fictional weapon and taking enjoyment from it and shooting the real thing and taking enjoyment from it are not mutually exclusive I would imagine. I love racing games and I'd totally dig getting behind the wheel of a race car and doing a few laps, even though it would be infinitely more dangerous than doing so in a game.

I have done both since I was about 12 years old and I can with all seriousness tell you that I have had more fun doing the video game equivalent than the real life one. Because the anxiety involved with handling a firearm or being around other people who are handling a firearm has no equivalent when it comes to just playing video games for fun.


I don't have to worry about getting seriously injured or dying permanently when I play call of duty.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I have done both since I was about 12 years old and I can with all seriousness tell you that I have had more fun doing the video game equivalent than the real life one. Because the anxiety involved with handling a firearm or being around other people who are handling a firearm has no equivalent when it comes to just playing video games for fun.


I don't have to worry about getting seriously injured or dying permanently when I play call of duty.

There's less responsibility involved, I'll give you that. However, there's the absolute rush of dealing with real bullet drop and wind that a simulation in a game just can't match. They both have their tradeoffs, I'm just saying I find it baffling that some people are anti-gun but also enjoy shooters. The enjoyment of shooting the guns (sans at people, of course) in real life and that in games comes from the same place to a degree.

You really don't have to worry about dying permanently at a gun range, either. Range officers patrol the lanes and if someone fucks up or acts a fool, they're ejected. Sure, there are other hazards when it comes to shooting a real weapon (squib loads, for example), but it's generally quite safe assuming you are versed in safety and have maintained your weapons.

 

[MrMephistoX]

it probably has something to do with the fact where if someone is careless or stupid during target shooting someone could be seriously injured or even die. whereas if you are careless or stupid while playing a first-person shooter then the worst that can happen is you lose the match and get called several racial or homophobic slurs.

Looking at you call of duty.

This is where training comes in: I personally think it should be mandated by law especially with an AR. That said most Range Officers will boot anyone fucking around out with a potential lifetime range ban. Most are NRA certified and will help you out for free if asked.

 

[Horns]

For as long as I've been alive I hear this or that Democrat will end the 2nd amendment or take away your guns. It's tiring. The fear mongering needs to stop.

 

[Nobody_Important]

There's less responsibility involved, I'll give you that. However, there's the absolute rush of dealing with real bullet drop and wind that a simulation in a game just can't match. They both have their tradeoffs, I'm just saying I find it baffling that some people are anti-gun but also enjoy shooters. The enjoyment of shooting the guns (sans at people, of course) in real life and that in games comes from the same place to a degree.

You really don't have to worry about dying permanently at a gun range, either. Range officers patrol the lanes and if someone fucks up or acts a fool, they're ejected. Sure, there are other hazards when it comes to shooting a real weapon (squib loads, for example), but it's generally quite safe assuming you are versed in safety and have maintained your weapons.

Agreed to disagree.

 

[Vanish]

Why is my owning a gun important to you? I'd rather not be told by some rando lib on a forum how I should protect myself or my family. On top of that, it's a constitutional protection, so why don't you vanish, Vanish?

You owning a gun is important to me because America has a huge gun violence problem (including unintentional shootings at home), the worst of any 1st world problem.

If it's really about keeping your family safe then you should be for strict gun control to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of people not responsible enough to own one.

 

[diffusionx]

For as long as I've been alive I hear this or that Democrat will end the 2nd amendment or take away your guns. It's tiring. The fear mongering needs to stop.

Right, all those times Dems actually push anti-gun plans, like say requiring people pay a $200 tax and fill out complicated paperwork, is just a fantasy.

You owning a gun is important to me because America has a huge gun violence problem (including unintentional shootings at home), the worst of any 1st world problem.

If it's really about keeping your family safe then you should be for strict gun control to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of people not responsible enough to own one.

Either pass a Constitutional Amendment or STFU.

 

[HeresJohnny]

You owning a gun is important to me because America has a huge gun violence problem (including unintentional shootings at home), the worst of any 1st world problem.

If it's really about keeping your family safe then you should be for strict gun control to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of people not responsible enough to own one.

Gun control doesn't work, dude. Chicago has nightly shootings -- also has some of the strictest gun control measures in the country. Gun control has shown time and again that it takes guns away from people like me, while people who kill others still have full access to them. Do you really believe that most shootings that take place are done by perpetrators who went and bought a gun legally and paid retail for it, while passing a background check? We already have strict gun control and it does not work. Do you really think taxing an AR15 (which isn't even used in most shootings anyway) is going to make some criminal second-guess his life choices? Come the fuck on, man.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Why do we need mandatory training? Is there some epidemic of firearm death as a result of improper handling?

Nope. Very few actually and most that accidentally shoot themselves (like children) aren’t owners of the gun obviously.

 

[Loki]

If anyone can look at what has happened in major cities the past 6 months and still say that they see no reason for gun ownership, they are deluded. When you see mobs of people going into residential neighborhoods demanding that homeowners give up their homes as reparations and menacing/vandalizing, you should ensure that you are prepared to defend your family and property by any means necessary.

And for those who posit that "property" is not worth defending with lethal violence - when did this become true? I'll tell you one thing: my father worked 100+ hour weeks for many years to be able to have the house he has (and prior to COVID was still working 80+ hour weeks at age 67), and I will certainly not allow some entitled cretin to "take" my parents' house due to some misguided sense of social justice. I personally have never owned a gun, nor has anyone in my family (both immediate and extended); but I plan on applying for a handgun license, because the prospect of mobs of people attacking folks in their homes or running wild in the streets menacing people doesn't sit well with me. I am especially concerned for my wife and parents, if not for myself (since I'm able-bodied, quite large, and athletic - though of course that in and of itself is not a deterrent against mob violence. Just saying that I'm definitely not the type of guy who'd be their first target). With the climate of civil unrest and social instability we have currently, it only makes sense.

 

[Singular7]

Why do we need mandatory training? Is there some epidemic of firearm death as a result of improper handling?

Nope. Very few actually and most that accidentally shoot themselves (like children) aren’t owners of the gun obviously.

Agreed - otherwise you risk the idiocy of the UK and their knife bans.

Life includes risk, in all situations. Playing COD for too long can kill you.

Not to mention, a strong central government is the most dangerous entity on earth since recorded history.

The 2A is what gives us *some* semblance of protection from them. The first line of defense is the 1A.

 

[MrMephistoX]

You owning a gun is important to me because America has a huge gun violence problem (including unintentional shootings at home), the worst of any 1st world problem.

If it's really about keeping your family safe then you should be for strict gun control to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of people not responsible enough to own one.

None of the above will happen with stricter gun control. Look at California we have an assault weapons ban and a “safe handgun” roster which is full of 30 year old less safe models.

Guns used in crimes are not being bought at Cabella’s / Bass Pro they’re being sold on the black market and won’t go away: you can technically get a revolutionary war era or Civil War pistol up and running steel guns last forever. Those guns are not getting off the streets.

Suicide and mass shootings are reflective of our terrible mental healthcare.I’d trade socialized healthcare for keeping the 2A as is.

 

[Mista K]

Frankly, I wouldn't be as worried as I am if it weren't for a potential one sided political system and packing the courts.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Frankly, I wouldn't be as worried as I am if it weren't for a potential one sided political system and packing the courts.

Agreed. It's the Democrats that are fueling the idea of destroying the checks and balances within the government. One party rule would be a disaster for this country.

 

[autoduelist]

No boating accident tax, though.

 

[Razvedka]

There's no compelling evidence for the gun control argument, in particular as it is framed by people like Biden. And it isn't like we don't have data/studies and yearly FBI crime statistics like the UCR.

If you want to tackle crime then look into poverty, broken homes, recidivism (and our prison system), and the quality of education in the US. But none of these have easy answers you can tweet about, and the average person has a pretty shallow knowledge of the any of these subjects and an even smaller attention span. This is an emotional subject, but 'assault weapons' are both not real and not really a subject worth mentioning in the conversation on crime.

 

[oagboghi2]

For as long as I've been alive I hear this or that Democrat will end the 2nd amendment or take away your guns. It's tiring. The fear mongering needs to stop.

Than stop trying to pass gun control laws.

and while your at it, stop trying to pack the Supreme Court and abusing senate rules

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.

If you don’t want to own a gun, don’t. Don’t buy one.

Why is other people’s freedoms so concerning to you? Does home security systems and companies have a “tyrannical government protection” package I am unaware of?

The whole gun buyback thing has always confused me. How can you buyback something you never owned?

Well remember it is from the same dumb people who believes government gives you the freedom to own a gun. They believe the 2nd tells citizens they can, not that it denies the government from infringing on it.

 

[Vanish]

So the main reason I own an AR15 is that it’s easier to use and way more accurate than a handgun in my home for my wife in particular. They’re light, easy to aim and don’t have a lot of recoil like a shotgun. I lock it up with multiple failsafes including a safe, locked door, and magazine lock.

With a pistol in the home it’s way easier to miss than to get an assured hit with the AR15: bonus it looks scary but the bullets actually won’t hit my neighbors through a wall unlike many common pistol calibers which I have too.

Plus it’s just a fun hobby like golf without rich assholes.

Thanks for the level headed response. I'm not necessarily for banning guns but I just think there should be stricter gun control so there aren't so many out there especially in the hands of people who shouldn't have one. Plus there's no reason for one person to own dozens of guns like some people put there. You sound like the ideal, responsible gun owner.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Thanks for the level headed response. I'm not necessarily for banning guns but I just think there should be stricter gun control so there aren't so many out there especially in the hands of people who shouldn't have one. Plus there's no reason for one person to own dozens of guns like some people put there. You sound like the ideal, responsible gun owner.

What stricter controls should be implemented? And why should anyone be able to say how many guns one can own? If you trust a citizen with one firearm, why not thirty? Here's the thing: why can't people stay out of the lives of other people? I remember back not too long ago, games were being called murder simulators and people were trying to tie video games to mass murders that occurred; what if the government decided that each household could only own one copy of a violent game and that the person who played it had to go in for psychological evaluations every 6 months to make sure they weren't be adversely affected by it?

 

[Vanish]

Gun control doesn't work, dude. Chicago has nightly shootings -- also has some of the strictest gun control measures in the country. Gun control has shown time and again that it takes guns away from people like me, while people who kill others still have full access to them. Do you really believe that most shootings that take place are done by perpetrators who went and bought a gun legally and paid retail for it, while passing a background check? We already have strict gun control and it does not work. Do you really think taxing an AR15 (which isn't even used in most shootings anyway) is going to make some criminal second-guess his life choices? Come the fuck on, man.

I mean, yeah Chicago has strict gun control but that doesn't mean much when you can still easily get one in the next town/state over. It needs to be enforced on a national level to be truly effective. Seems to have worked out just fine in places like Australia.

 

[Vanish]

What stricter controls should be implemented? And why should anyone be able to say how many guns one can own? If you trust a citizen with one firearm, why not thirty?

I'm all for freedom but when it's weapons that you can easily go on a mass killing spree then it should be restricted. You don't need 30 guns to defend your home and family.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

What stricter controls should be implemented? And why should anyone be able to say how many guns one can own? If you trust a citizen with one firearm, why not thirty?

It won’t keep it out of the hands of those that shouldn’t anyway since 89-97% of all homicides committed with firearms in the USA are by people who don’t legally own the firearm.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I mean, yeah Chicago has strict gun control but that doesn't mean much when you can still easily get one in the next town/state over. It needs to be enforced on a national level to be truly effective. Seems to have worked out just fine in places like Australia.

Australia banned guns. That's not gun control. You're advocating for a ban. Two different things.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I'm all for freedom but when it's weapons that you can easily go on a mass killing spree then it should be restricted. You don't need 30 guns to defend your home and family.

It isn’t need it is god given right. Also the 2nd denying the government the ability to infringe wasn’t created for solely home defense, rather to fight back against a tyrannical government. And the government shouldn’t let me me know how many guns is appropriate for fighting back the government

 

[tfur]

The government does not get to tax an inalienable right. The government does not grant me 2nd amendment rights. The 2nd amendment is my right to restrict the government.

Also, you do not get to tell me what I need to protect home and family. People who live with that mentality, usually live in shithole cities.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I'm all for freedom but when it's weapons that you can easily go on a mass killing spree then it should be restricted. You don't need 30 guns to defend your home and family.

What difference does it make if I own 1 or 30? I'm either responsible with them or I'm not. Again, this is about your feeling the need to tell people how they can exercise a constitutional right. It isn't based on logic, but feels.

 

[rorepmE]

Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.

Naw, I'm good.

You owning a gun is important to me because America has a huge gun violence problem (including unintentional shootings at home), the worst of any 1st world problem.

If it's really about keeping your family safe then you should be for strict gun control to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of people not responsible enough to own one.

The murder rate in my small city is virtually zero, crime is at a 20 year low but gun ownership rate is high. Why? We don't have dysfunctional single-mothered man-children running the street and solving their issues with guns. America doesn't have a "huge gun violence problem", blue cities have a "huge gun violence problem. These "cultural" issues within communities of color and the tools they use to resolve their inter-personal conflicts happens to be firearms.

 

[Tesseract]

Why are guns so important to you guys? If it's about self-defense than invest in a home security system and 1 or 2 handguns if that. Otherwise get a better hobby that doesn't revolve around a device literally built to kill.

 

[O.v.e.rlord]

I mean, yeah Chicago has strict gun control but that doesn't mean much when you can still easily get one in the next town/state over. It needs to be enforced on a national level to be truly effective. Seems to have worked out just fine in places like Australia.

wrong on the australia bit. Robbery, murder, theft, and home invasions went up. So it really didnt work.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

wrong on the australia bit. Robbery, murder, theft, and home invasions went up. So it really didnt work.

Get a home security system

 

[Mista K]

wrong on the australia bit. Robbery, murder, theft, and home invasions went up. So it really didnt work.

I can only imagine. What is one person going to do against a group in any home invasion or mob attack? Nothing, that's what

 

[rorepmE]

wrong on the australia bit. Robbery, murder, theft, and home invasions went up. So it really didnt work.

Wrong.

It did work. It made him feel better which was the goal!

I can only imagine. What is one person going to do against a group in any home invasion or mob attack? Nothing, that's what

Call the the defunded police to draw chalk outlines around your family's corpses?

 

[Vanish]

wrong on the australia bit. Robbery, murder, theft, and home invasions went up. So it really didnt work.

Proof? Because Australia's Bureau of Statistics say otherwise.

PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

27 years of Recorded Crime – Victims data

National statistics about victims of a range of offences as recorded by police between 1993 and 2019.

www.abs.gov.au

The number of certain types of crime may have gone up but the number where a firearm was used went down.

 

[rorepmE]

Me personally I just goad them into dropping their chicken shit gun to engage in a knife fight.

 

[O.v.e.rlord]

Proof? Because Australia's Bureau of Statistics say otherwise.

PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

27 years of Recorded Crime – Victims data

National statistics about victims of a range of offences as recorded by police between 1993 and 2019.

www.abs.gov.au

The number of certain types of crime may have gone up but the number where a firearm was used went down.

HAHAHAHA you funny you know that. I read the politicfact article. Did crime stop or decrease with the ban? No the levels went up. Up as a increase. do you see that in your article?
"The Australian Bureau of Statistics reported that armed robberies increased by 20% (not 44%), but the number involving firearms decreased to a six-year low of 19%. " HAHAHAHAHAHA thats not fucking good.

"There were 132,297 victims of assault in Australia – a 6% increase from 1997 (not 9.6% as the post states), the organization says. Assaults had been on the rise for years." See that funny word again "increase" weird right

fuck if you look at the graph you posted with the crime stats, the gun ban has no effect

 

[MrMephistoX]

Thanks for the level headed response. I'm not necessarily for banning guns but I just think there should be stricter gun control so there aren't so many out there especially in the hands of people who shouldn't have one. Plus there's no reason for one person to own dozens of guns like some people put there. You sound like the ideal, responsible gun owner.

Thankfully we do have a pretty decent background check system already in places other NICS but I do agree the loopholes should be fixed: the gun show loophole isn’t so much about gun shows not checking backgrounds but in some states you can just do a private party transfer without a background check. For immediate family sure I can see not doing that but yeah two strangers should be checked out.

My biggest beef with the gun lobbies and some owners is that that they no longer are willing to compromise. You could argue that it’s a slippery slope like scaling back abortion rights at the state level though so it’s better to have very few regulations.

For me though I’m like yes I don’t want a mentally ill kid who threatened classmates or a dude who habitually beats his partner to own guns and I just want a database that immediately boots them off.

 

[ExpandKong]

Proof? Because Australia's Bureau of Statistics say otherwise.

PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

27 years of Recorded Crime – Victims data

National statistics about victims of a range of offences as recorded by police between 1993 and 2019.

www.abs.gov.au

The number of certain types of crime may have gone up but the number where a firearm was used went down.

The number of certain types of crime may have gone up but the number where a firearm was used went down.

crime gone up

Stay frosty ya dipshit.

 

[Razvedka]

Proof? Because Australia's Bureau of Statistics say otherwise.

PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

27 years of Recorded Crime – Victims data

National statistics about victims of a range of offences as recorded by police between 1993 and 2019.

www.abs.gov.au

The number of certain types of crime may have gone up but the number where a firearm was used went down.

Crime in the west has been on a downward trend for decades. So unless there was a bigger dip than what would be expected anyway then it did nothing, which is what I recall reading in detail some time ago. For gun control to work, as promised, there needs to be a significant and direct effect on net crime and according to the research it just isn't there. More guns do not equal less crime, nor does more gun control. So why bother? It just makes people feel good for no real return while hindering a market and curtailing the means to defense (for some) + hurting your individual agency.

To be clear:

1. Gun Control !== significantly less crime than what would otherwise be anticipated nor does it increase crime. Does pretty much nothing.
2. More gun access !== less crime (per my research), but nor does it mean more crime. Again, it does pretty much nothing.

Crime is less a factor of tools available and more due to socioeconomic problems as mentioned prior.

So on balance gun control is more about 'good vibes' than actually accomplishing anything. And considering the side effects of invoking it, such as turning otherwise innocent people into criminals over night, hindering (certainly not helping) SD use, hunting use, market impacts and in the US's case infringing on the 2A I don't really see the argument. There's no good reason to do it.

In the US's case specifically the FBI declared the assault weapons ban of the clinton era (AWB) did not lead to reduced homicide rates. How you measure the success of something definitely matters, because if you play shell games and talk only about 'gun crime' vs 'net crime' then you can paint a rosier picture. One should care less about 'reducing gun murders' vs 'reducing net murders', and gun control does not accomplish the latter.