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The Black Community

matt404au

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Stop using this weaselly euphemism. What you really mean is black people, but you know it's wrong to group people by the colour of their skin rather than the content of their character. You're still a tribal moron though, so you can't quite manage to put that wisdom into practice. Instead, you replace it with the softer, more socially-acceptable euphemism of "community". Black activists do it to make it appear as though they speak for all black people. White liberals do it because it makes them feel good, like they're making a positive change for the world (narrator: they're not). Both groups are distilling people down to an immutable characteristic and pretending they all share the same thoughts and values. We collectively agreed that this was wrong when white supremacists did it, and the reciprocal form is just as wrong, albeit morally and socially fashionable in current_year. If you consider yourself a liberal, treat people like individuals. Same goes for all other "communities". There is no black community; there is no gay community; there is only your local community.

 

Vicetrailia

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You're helping while working working with a stick up your butt. I wonder how productive that is.
 

matt404au

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The problem in America is not racial; it’s cultural. Black American culture is collectivist while European-derived general American culture is individualist. Many of the problems are derived from this and BLM’s lack of success to date is because they are attempting to push a collectivist message onto an individualist society. They look at group level outcomes and work backwards to try to make the pieces fit at the individual level, then wonder why their message is rejected. It simply does not work and is not borne out in the statistics.

Sometimes it takes an outside pair of eyes to see these things.
 

Riven326

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The problem in America is not racial; it’s cultural. Black American culture is collectivist while European-derived general American culture is individualist. Many of the problems are derived from this and BLM’s lack of success to date is because they are attempting to push a collectivist message onto an individualist society. They look at group level outcomes and work backwards to try to make the pieces fit at the individual level, then wonder why their message is rejected. It simply does not work and is not borne out in the statistics.

Sometimes it takes an outside pair of eyes to see these things.
Your second sentence contradicts the first.
 
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Riven326

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Andrew Yang‘s parents are from Taiwan. His race is likely Chinese. What sub-group, I don’t know. He was born in America. What is he culturally?
I don't know anything about Andrew Yang other than he's Asian. Again, show me a black community with Asian culture. Stop dodging.
 
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BigBooper

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That collectivist lie is the only way they can keep them down. There is a big discussion to have about the police's use of force in general that I have a lot of problems about. But when you look at the problems isolated from the drama, it's clear that it's not a police vs black problem, but a police vs civilian problem. The more you look the clearer that is.

That doesn't help the shysters and Democrats use the black voter for their own power struggles though. They want that division so they can try to hold their vote hostage. It's worked pretty well for a long time.

TLDR: You're right, keep up the good work.
 

matt404au

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I don't know anything about Andrew Yang other than he's Asian. Again, show me a black community with Asian culture. Stop dodging.
It’s a dumb example. At no point did I say that there must be every permutation of race and culture in every country in the world. Ergo, it’s not necessary for me to prove to you the existence of a black American with Asian culture. However, I’m sure that if you had an African sub-group in China, they would be culturally Chinese.

What I am saying is that the goal should be to induct minority racial groups into the majority culture, not to encourage the growth of distinct sub-cultures with disparate values and political goals. That’s how you get civil war. This is particularly important when you have an added dimension of skin colour allowing people to self-identify as the other.

In America, the majority culture is a European-derived culture of individualism. The American gander became successful by empowering the goose, not the gander. The goal should therefore be to induct black Americans into the individualist American culture. Perpetuating the idea of a separate “black community” inhibits this.
 

monegames

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I'm sure you can. The fact that outliers exist doesn't mean black culture isn't a thing.
You said this.
There is. But they go together. You can't have one without the other. Show me a black community with Asian culture.
If a black man is not part of black culture, then the race and culture do not go together, and you can have one without the other. While they often go together the outliers prove you wrong. No one is arguing that black culture is not a thing. Just that race and culture are different. As matt404au matt404au pointed out to you with his initial reply to you.
Only if you can’t comprehend that there’s a difference between race and culture.
 

matt404au

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I'm sure you can. The fact that outliers exist doesn't mean black culture isn't a thing.
Their existence proves that race and culture are not intrinsically linked as you assert. The goal should be to make them normal instead of outliers. I suspect that they probably already are, but the loud activist minority and complicit media, academia and Democrat party have convinced everyone they’re not.
 

Riven326

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Their existence proves that race and culture are not intrinsically linked as you assert. The goal should be to make them normal instead of outliers. I suspect that they probably already are, but the loud activist minority and complicit media, academia and Democrat party have convinced everyone they’re not.
No. Because one person does not a culture make. You can find outliers anywhere, but that does not mean that race is not tied to culture. Black culture is as it is because it is black people who make up that culture. Same with white people, Asians, etc.

The United States for example, was founded by white Europeans. Thus, the culture was European. That has now changed as a result of immigration which involves the importing of a different race of people. Now they can assimilate and adopt white European culture. But that does not mean that their original culture has nothing to do with their race or place of origin.
 

matt404au

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No. Because one person does not a culture make. You can find outliers anywhere, but that does not mean that race is not tied to culture. Black culture is as it is because it is black people who make up that culture. Same with white people, Asians, etc.

The United States for example, was founded by white Europeans. Thus, the culture was European. That has now changed as a result of immigration which involves the importing of a different race of people. Now they can assimilate and adopt white European culture. But that does not mean that their original culture has nothing to do with their race or place of origin.
If what you say is true, then the only society that will ever work is a racially homogeneous one. I reject that. You’ve also started with an assumption that they are outliers but I see no evidence to suggest that other than your own personal prejudice. In fact, most of the evidence I see is to the contrary. As a local anecdotal example, we have a relatively homogeneous culture here at GAF, so I wonder what would be the result if we held a poll to see what race everyone is. I suspect it would be highly variable.

Immigration simultaneously imports both different race and different culture. Race is a product of biological evolution (immutable) while culture is a product of social evolution (mutable). If you assume that both are immutable then you must assert that no immigration should be allowed at all. I believe that the most reasonable solution is an assumption of cultural mutability with low rates of immigration supported by cultural integration programs.
 

Zefah

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This got posted in another thread, but I've been thinking about it a lot since I saw it earlier today.




That gap is massive. I'm not sure it can be bridged. How are we supposed to have any kind of progress if one broad racial group mostly thinks race is not important and over half of every other racial group thinks it is important. I don't think the answer is for White People to start thinking that race is, actually, really important to their identities. That rarely ends well.
 

-Arcadia-

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I would argue that these general weird exclusionary tendencies are harming black people as a whole.

Take a look at the Japanese. Public enemy No. 1 for a while there. Put into camps during wartime. Homeland decimated by literal nuclear war. It really doesn’t get much worse for peaceful relations between two groups of people.

What did Japanese Americans (and Japanese as a whole) do? Did they play victim, exclude themselves with a parallel culture, and dredge it up at every opportunity? Or did they put their nose to the grindstone, assimilate to the dominant culture, and achieve the utmost success in society?

Meanwhile, it seems like quite a few black people are still seeing things through the frame of the middle of the 20th century, or the 19th.

To be clear, not every black American does these things, and I really, really like those people. It does seem to be however, the predominant attitude among many (or I’m being given that impression).

In the same manner, black people should have never have been treated as they were initially to begin with, but at some point, everyone has to move on. In any relationship, a unhealthy fixation on past grievances will inevitably lead to a split or a blow-up. Only by looking forward, and beginning to forgive, can progress be made.
 

matt404au

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This got posted in another thread, but I've been thinking about it a lot since I saw it earlier today.




That gap is massive. I'm not sure it can be bridged. How are we supposed to have any kind of progress if one broad racial group mostly thinks race is not important and over half of every other racial group thinks it is important. I don't think the answer is for White People to start thinking that race is, actually, really important to their identities. That rarely ends well.
Think of it like trade unions. The little guy makes himself strong by collectivising. However, we know from the history of the 20th century that collectivism leads to the downfall of society. Thus, capitulating to the demands of collectivized minority groups like BLM hastens the destruction of society. No good can come from working backwards from group-level statistics.

The solution here is what America has always been the best at: rugged individualism. Promoting individualism requires the rejection of collectivism. The rejection of collectivism requires the elimination of weakness as a virtue. The elimination of weakness as a virtue requires the promotion of traditional masculine values. This means dads in homes. This means an elimination of the welfare state. This means a rejection of Democrat policies that have crippled the black family unit since LBJ. Reinstall discipline into the black family unit and negative police interactions, including deaths like George Floyd’s, will trend to zero.

The absolute worst thing America could do is capitulate to the demands of BLM and start policing differentially on the basis of race.
 

matt404au

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I would argue that these general weird exclusionary tendencies are harming black people as a whole.

Take a look at the Japanese. Public enemy No. 1 for a while there. Put into camps during wartime. Homeland decimated by literal nuclear war. It really doesn’t get much worse for peaceful relations between two groups of people.

What did Japanese Americans (and Japanese as a whole) do? Did they play victim, exclude themselves with a parallel culture, and dredge it up at every opportunity? Or did they put their nose to the grindstone, assimilate to the dominant culture, and achieve the utmost success in society?

Meanwhile, it seems like quite a few black people are still seeing things through the frame of the middle of the 20th century, or the 19th.

To be clear, not every black American does these things, and I really, really like those people. It does seem to be however, the predominant attitude among many (or I’m being given that impression).

In the same manner, black people should have never have been treated as they were initially to begin with, but at some point, everyone has to move on. In any relationship, a unhealthy fixation on past grievances will inevitably lead to a split or a blow-up. Only by looking forward, and beginning to forgive, can progress be made.
The world needs fewer Tariq Nasheeds and more Larry Elders.

To any black men reading this: if you’re called an Uncle Tom, take it as a compliment. It means you’re doing something right; that you’re rejecting collectivism and trying to build something better. Don’t let the crabs drag you back down into their bucket of shit.
 

Riven326

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If what you say is true, then the only society that will ever work is a racially homogeneous one. I reject that. You’ve also started with an assumption that they are outliers but I see no evidence to suggest that other than your own personal prejudice. In fact, most of the evidence I see is to the contrary. As a local anecdotal example, we have a relatively homogeneous culture here at GAF, so I wonder what would be the result if we held a poll to see what race everyone is. I suspect it would be highly variable.

Immigration simultaneously imports both different race and different culture. Race is a product of biological evolution (immutable) while culture is a product of social evolution (mutable). If you assume that both are immutable then you must assert that no immigration should be allowed at all. I believe that the most reasonable solution is an assumption of cultural mutability with low rates of immigration supported by cultural integration programs.
Well you can reject it all you want. But that's just your own personal prejudice. Same goes for immigration. That's just your middle of the road, multi-racial, multi-cultural, preference.
 

matt404au

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Well you can reject it all you want. But that's just your own personal prejudice. Same goes for immigration. That's just your middle of the road, multi-racial, multi-cultural, preference.
Translation: “no u”

You're still conflating race and culture. I’m opposed to multi-culturalism. I’m in favour of multi-racialism as an outcome of a fair system that does not distill individuals down to their immutable characteristics. It’s not middle of the road for the sake of it as you suggest. I’m not sitting on the fence. I’ve made my position clear and have substantiated it. Where’s your substantiation?
 

Riven326

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Translation: “no u”

You're still conflating race and culture. I’m opposed to multi-culturalism. I’m in favour of multi-racialism as an outcome of a fair system that does not distill individuals down to their immutable characteristics. It’s not middle of the road for the sake of it as you suggest. I’m not sitting on the fence. I’ve made my position clear and have substantiated it. Where’s your substantiation?
You sound like an idealist. The United States is proof that it's not possible to have a multi-racial society with just one culture. You get the multi-culturalism along with it. This is also being demonstrated in various European countries.

Migrants coming from places like Somalia and Syria, are refusing to assimilate. Thus, the countries are now multi-racial and multi-cultural. The results of this integration have been nothing short of a disaster for the Europeans. There's always this friction which is the result of this clash of cultures.

Plainly, if you want the multi-racial, you have to accept the multi-cultural. It's a package deal. No amount of ideals is going to change that. You can't change human nature. I've provided examples for you to ponder.

As for validating my argument, I use the United States again. Specifically the U.S. as it was pre-1965 compared today. The cultural changes, which are irreversible mind you, are a direct result of the changes made that year to the immigration laws. Once a certain amount of non-whites entered the country, the balance to shift in favor of multi-culturalism. And here we are today. A country more divided than ever largely on racial and cultural lines.

As for homogenous societies being the only ones that are successful long term, yes, I believe that is the case. I believe the Asian countries, specifically China and Japan, will outlast the United States, with China likely becoming the next super power. That is the long game that's being played. The U.S. will not be conquered from an external force. It will be conquered from within by failing to identify and acknowledge human nature, just like you.
 

matt404au

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You sound like an idealist. The United States is proof that it's not possible to have a multi-racial society with just one culture. You get the multi-culturalism along with it. This is also being demonstrated in various European countries.

Migrants coming from places like Somalia and Syria, are refusing to assimilate. Thus, the countries are now multi-racial and multi-cultural. The results of this integration have been nothing short of a disaster for the Europeans. There's always this friction which is the result of this clash of cultures.

Plainly, if you want the multi-racial, you have to accept the multi-cultural. It's a package deal. No amount of ideals is going to change that. You can't change human nature. I've provided examples for you to ponder.

As for validating my argument, I use the United States again. Specifically the U.S. as it was pre-1965 compared today. The cultural changes, which are irreversible mind you, are a direct result of the changes made that year to the immigration laws. Once a certain amount of non-whites entered the country, the balance to shift in favor of multi-culturalism. And here we are today. A country more divided than ever largely on racial and cultural lines.

As for homogenous societies being the only ones that are successful long term, yes, I believe that is the case. I believe the Asian countries, specifically China and Japan, will outlast the United States, with China likely becoming the next super power. That is the long game that's being played. The U.S. will not be conquered from an external force. It will be conquered from within by failing to identify and acknowledge human nature, just like you.
No, it doesn’t. It proves that you can’t have a harmonious multi-racial society with colour of skin collectivist liberals at the helm. My understanding is that cultural homogeneity is much better in content of character individualist conservative states.

I reject your race realism.
 
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There is. But they go together. You can't have one without the other. Show me a black community with Asian culture.
The hell is "Asian culture"? Are Asians a monolithic group now? Last time I checked there wasn't.

There are general values, morals, convictions, virtues, sense of justice, tradition etc. that all groups have in common, since those things are shared human elements. From there you get variances that build off of regional differences and often those coincide with different ethnic groups.

Things like "black culture", "white culture" etc. were just marketing labels designed for post-modernist societies to obtain socio-political goals. Almost all of it has its roots in American society and almost all of it has been manufactured. I'd argue how much of "black culture", "white culture" etc. from America is genuine culture versus product fads that go in cycles driven for financial profit.

EDIT: Oh never mind, you're one of those Stephen Molyneux sort of pseudo-"intellectual" race realists. The sort who want simple answers in dismissing whole groups ranking them on some self-narcissistic ego-driven totem pole to satiate their own personal imbecilic thinking and lack of critical thought and/or success in various aspects of their lives.

Welp, that's a 'you' problem. Go deal with it.
 
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Riven326

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No, it doesn’t. It proves that you can’t have a harmonious multi-racial society with colour of skin collectivist liberals at the helm. My understanding is that cultural homogeneity is much better in content of character individualist conservative states.

I reject your race realism.
Fair enough. You can always go join the flat earth society.
 

matt404au

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The hell is "Asian culture"? Are Asians a monolithic group now? Last time I checked there wasn't.

There are general values, morals, convictions, virtues, sense of justice, tradition etc. that all groups have in common, since those things are shared human elements. From there you get variances that build off of regional differences and often those coincide with different ethnic groups.

Things like "black culture", "white culture" etc. were just marketing labels designed for post-modernist societies to obtain socio-political goals. Almost all of it has its roots in American society and almost all of it has been manufactured. I'd argue how much of "black culture", "white culture" etc. from America is genuine culture versus product fads that go in cycles driven for financial profit.

EDIT: Oh never mind, you're one of those Stephen Molyneux sort of pseudo-"intellectual" race realists. The sort who want simple answers in dismissing whole groups ranking them on some self-narcissistic ego-driven totem pole to satiate their own personal imbecilic thinking and lack of critical thought and/or success in various aspects of their lives.

Welp, that's a 'you' problem. Go deal with it.
I agree with your post, but what does Stefan Molyneux have to do with it?
 
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I agree with your post, but what does Stefan Molyneux have to do with it?
I remember seeing Molyneux basically peddling a lot of the same race realism stuff that poster was saying in this thread. So he's an easy go-to since I'm sure at the time he influenced a good deal of other people to carry on with those kind of thoughts.

Granted I do not keep up with his stuff these days, maybe he doesn't do that anymore. I wouldn't know. But I'm not particularly interested in knowing, either. They can choose to freely speak what they want but I can choose to freely ignore it. That said I basically got turned off of stuff like that as I was getting tired of alt-righters in general when the extreme alt-right started taking over things. That's probably a reason anti-SJWs became a thing.
 

matt404au

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I remember seeing Molyneux basically peddling a lot of the same race realism stuff that poster was saying in this thread. So he's an easy go-to since I'm sure at the time he influenced a good deal of other people to carry on with those kind of thoughts.

Granted I do not keep up with his stuff these days, maybe he doesn't do that anymore. I wouldn't know. But I'm not particularly interested in knowing, either. They can choose to freely speak what they want but I can choose to freely ignore it. That said I basically got turned off of stuff like that as I was getting tired of alt-righters in general when the extreme alt-right started taking over things. That's probably a reason anti-SJWs became a thing.
If you’re not totally sure, I’d suggest not slandering someone like that. I’ve seen some of his videos on YouTube and found him fairly reasonable. Obviously I’ve not heard every word the man has ever said so if you have evidence, I’m all ears.
 

Riven326

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I don't know how anyone could listen to Molyneux. He's so boring. Not an ounce of charisma. I prefer Jared Taylor's videos on the subject of race and culture. And before you ask, no, I don't like Richard Spencer and I'm not part of his dwindling club of losers. I just like all kinds of people. From theists to atheists, to fascists and communists. They all have some kind of valuable information to share.
 
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If you’re not totally sure, I’d suggest not slandering someone like that. I’ve seen some of his videos on YouTube and found him fairly reasonable. Obviously I’ve not heard every word the man has ever said so if you have evidence, I’m all ears.
Like I said I haven't seen their stuff in years so I'm going off the impressions I got at the time. But I wouldn't call it slander, either. Trust me, I'm rather loose when it comes to taking in varying ideas and perspectives, even potentially controversial ones. However like I said, I remember at the time seeing him utilize his and presenting topics in a way to pander to far-right extremists talking points and viewpoints for politicized reasons. And I just didn't agree with obvious misuse of data related to things he discussed and how he posited them.

Honestly I'm not interested in providing evidence because I've debated about this type of stuff lots of times across different websites and forums a good while ago and I'd rather spend my time on a gaming forum focused on games and keeping politics out of that. If you like his content that's cool I just hope you're one of the ones who can interpret their stuff critically and research things they bring up for yourself. That's an unfortunate thing I've seen with people who watch political content creators these days; they just let them do the thinking for them and a lot of times the content creators turn out to not have done much thinking themselves (this goes for "progressive" ones too, not just anti-SJW or alt-right ones).
 
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matt404au

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I don't know how anyone could listen to Molyneux. He's so boring. Not an ounce of charisma. I prefer Jared Taylor's videos on the subject of race and culture. And before you ask, no, I don't like Richard Spencer and I'm not part of his dwindling club of losers. I just like all kinds of people. From theists to atheists, to fascists and communists. They all have some kind of valuable information to share. Perspective mostly.
🤔

For some reason, I don’t believe you.
 

-Arcadia-

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I would be interested to see a multi-racial society with enforced (by social methods) cultural homogeneity. I suspect I would love it.

I don’t think we’ve ever totally had that. We’ve had whites separating out other races, and essentially not inviting them to the table (and much worse), and we’ve had the modern problem, where everyone is in a constant state of blowing minorities, whether they’re right or wrong, to apologize for the former.

We’ve never had a race-inclusive excellence and cultural standard, despite coming close a few times.
 
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Dirk Benedict

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Fetid, rotted, cursed Isz
Stop using this weaselly euphemism. What you really mean is black people, but you know it's wrong to group people by the colour of their skin rather than the content of their character. You're still a tribal moron though, so you can't quite manage to put that wisdom into practice. Instead, you replace it with the softer, more socially-acceptable euphemism of "community". Black activists do it to make it appear as though they speak for all black people. White liberals do it because it makes them feel good, like they're making a positive change for the world (narrator: they're not). Both groups are distilling people down to an immutable characteristic and pretending they all share the same thoughts and values. We collectively agreed that this was wrong when white supremacists did it, and the reciprocal form is just as wrong, albeit morally and socially fashionable in current_year. If you consider yourself a liberal, treat people like individuals. Same goes for all other "communities". There is no black community; there is no gay community; there is only your local community.

You're one of the only people on this site who can be a cunt and help both simultaneously.
 
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