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[pramod]

I know it seems kinda picky to try to poke holes in one of the greatest movies ever made, but I always felt the movie was missing something, I kinda felt it in my gut but could never figure out exactly what it was, until recently.

It's just that I never felt a real "personal" connection between Batman and The Joker. Yeah the Joker was kinda "obsessed" with Batman, but for Batman, it seemed to me the Joker was just "another" psycopath that he had to defeat.

In fact I felt there was more of a connection between Joker and Two-Face. Joker killed Rachael and he turned Harvey into an insane killer(which also made no sense that Harvey didn't just shoot the Joker), but I couldn't even really tell that Bruce was that upset about her death. I dunno, maybe there were just too
few scenes with Batman/Joker together? Besides that one great interrogation scene, you never got a feeling that these 2 characters really connected in any real way.

I actually felt Ras AlGhul was much better as a "personal" enemy to Batman in Batman Begins, and they even did a better job with this with Bane, where you truly feel Batman took his defeat personally and wanted revenge on Bane.

 

[Schattenjäger]

I thought they connected really well in the last scene at the construction site.. remember Joker was to appear in the next movie and that relationship was meant to blossom and flesh out over the course of a few movies

Two face was more of a 1-hit wonder.. which was 1 of my biggest issues with the movie

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I thought they connected really well in the last scene at the construction site.. remember Joker was to appear in the next movie and that relationship was meant to blossom and flesh out over the course of a few movies

Two face was more of a 1-hit wonder.. which was 1 of my biggest issues with the movie

Don't remind me. Still hurts. I can't imagine a universe where we saw that character fleshed out in sequels.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Don't remind me. Still hurts. I can't imagine a universe where we saw that character fleshed out in sequels.

I know man

He was awesome

 

[Richard Packer]

The movie needed better tits.

 

[pramod]

I thought they connected really well in the last scene at the construction site.. remember Joker was to appear in the next movie and that relationship was meant to blossom and flesh out over the course of a few movies

Two face was more of a 1-hit wonder.. which was 1 of my biggest issues with the movie

I dunno I felt that last scene was a bit underwhelming, it was just Batman going "haha I foiled your plan again". Maybe the problem is I never felt that the Joker got under Batman's skin, if you know what I mean. The great Batman/Joker stories/movies always involve the Joker doing something to really mess with Batman, to get under his skin, etc...I don't think they did a good job with that in The Dark Knight.

This is also why I felt the decision to make Joker the killer of Bruce's parents in Batman 1989 an acceptable creative change to me. The writers knew they had to set up Joker to have a more personal connection with Batman if he is to be the "arch-villain". In the comics we know Joker has been Batman's oldest foe and has killed Robin, etc...there isn't any of that backstory to work with in the movies so the writers have to do something else to create that connection between Joker and Batman. I think TDK failed to do that well.

 

[BigBooper]

I thought something similar after watching Batman Begins and The Dark Knight last autumn. I didn't love Ledger's performance at the time and I didn't realize why. I've no doubt it would have turned out a better movie overall if he hadn't died. The Joker didn't get to do a proper send-off.

Nicholson from Batman, got to end his encounter with an amazing dual. Ledger didn't get a chance. I wonder if Bane was always planned as the third villain?

 

[ResilientBanana]

I dunno I felt that last scene was a bit underwhelming, it was just Batman going "haha I foiled your plan again". Maybe the problem is I never felt that the Joker got under Batman's skin, if you know what I mean. The great Batman/Joker stories/movies always involve the Joker doing something to really mess with Batman, to get under his skin, etc...I don't think they did a good job with that in The Dark Knight.

This is also why I felt the decision to make Joker the killer of Bruce's parents in Batman 1989 an acceptable creative change to me. The writers knew they had to set up Joker to have a more personal connection with Batman if he is to be the "arch-villain". In the comics we know Joker has been Batman's oldest foe and has killed Robin, etc...there isn't any of that backstory to work with in the movies so the writers have to do something else to create that connection between Joker and Batman. I think TDK failed to do that well.

So killing Rachel and tricking him into saving Dent didn’t get under his skin?

 

[pramod]

So killing Rachel and tricking him into saving Dent didn’t get under his skin?

Maybe it did? But I couldn't really tell, honestly. I dunno if it was just a weak performance by Bale, or bad writing by Nolan. We saw Harvey in suicidal despair after losing Rachael, while Batman/Bruce was like ok whatever.

 

[pramod]

I thought something similar after watching Batman Begins and The Dark Knight last autumn. I didn't love Ledger's performance at the time and I didn't realize why. I've no doubt it would have turned out a better movie overall if he hadn't died. The Joker didn't get to do a proper send-off.

Nicholson from Batman, got to end his encounter with an amazing dual. Ledger didn't get a chance. I wonder if Bane was always planned as the third villain?

Yeah, I know right?
I mean, in Batman 1989, Batman outright murders the Joker. In TDK Batman actually SAVES him. He didn't even try to save Ras Al Ghul. But here he outright saves the life of the dude who killed the woman he loved. Made no sense.

 

[plushyp]

But here he outright saves the life of the dude who killed the woman he loved. Made no sense.

That was the whole point of Nolan Batman. That he's even now stuck to his moral code and incorruptible - which is something echoed by the Joker himself.

 

[Raven117]

I don’t agree with the OP at all on this.

I think it was (1) clear joker got under his skin. (Remember how he is fuming to Alfred in his apartment). (2) more importantly was a mirror of Batman. Something that was supposed to resonate more with people watching.

Joker was supposed to be someone that the audience understood more than Batman.

 

[MastAndo]

The only issue with the movie is how two handsome ass, wealthy and successful dudes were fighting over Maggie Gyllenhaal. I mean, come on fellas, of all the girls in Gotham City...

 

[GeekyDad]

Firstly, Batman Begins has always been and still is my personal favorite of the trilogy. But it's funny this topic just came up, as I was thinking about the movie (for whatever reason) last night laying in bed, about the one thing which bothered me about Dark Knight -- and it's trivial for sure. It's when Batman jumps after Rachael after Joker lets her go. He grabs her and puts his body under hers in order to break the fall with his body. Sure, he had super armor or whatever, but physics is physics. Admittedly, I know so little about physics, but that force has gotta push against something, whether it be his suit or the ground. I'm thinking brain death/spinal destruction instantly, for him at least, if not for both of them.

 

[SlimySnake]

The movie lacks an emotional punch like most Nolan movies. It's cold and most of its characters including Bruce Wayne seem detached and aloof.

There is definitely something lacking.

I think Interstellar and Inception are better Nolan movies. I rewatch them far more often than TDK. Both movies had a stronger emotional core and that makes the lead characters far more relatable. Bruce gets over the death of Rachel pretty fast whereas DiCaprio and Mathew Machaughney spend the whole movie trying to get back to their kids.

 

[Dr Bass]

Some pretty dumb takes here ...

Bruce spends two movies mourning Rachel and doesn't "move on" until the very end of the last movie, i.e. closure and character growth.

The movies are by far the most "personal" and relatable batman movies that I've seen, with Bruce Wayne being an actual character vs. the one note persona he is in others.

Maybe it did? But I couldn't really tell, honestly. I dunno if it was just a weak performance by Bale, or bad writing by Nolan. We saw Harvey in suicidal despair after losing Rachael, while Batman/Bruce was like ok whatever.

This is not accurate at all. It wasn't bad writing OR a bad performance, your description of the movie in this thread reads like you don't even know what you were watching.

Firstly, Batman Begins has always been and still is my personal favorite of the trilogy. But it's funny this topic just came up, as I was thinking about the movie (for whatever reason) last night laying in bed, about the one thing which bothered me about Dark Knight -- and it's trivial for sure. It's when Batman jumps after Rachael after Joker lets her go. He grabs her and puts his body under hers in order to break the fall with his body. Sure, he had super armor or whatever, but physics is physics. Admittedly, I know so little about physics, but that force has gotta push against something, whether it be his suit or the ground. I'm thinking brain death/spinal destruction instantly, for him at least, if not for both of them.

The cape slows down the impact in that scene I thought? Sorta like a parachute ... from what I remember anyway. I could be wrong here. But again, it's a super hero movie.

The only issue with the movie is how two handsome ass, wealthy and successful dudes were fighting over Maggie Gyllenhaal. I mean, come on fellas, of all the girls in Gotham City...

This is the only correct response in this entire thread.

 

[EverydayBeast]

 

[Jsisto]

Hmmm…I view it as more of a one sided obsession that The Joker had with Batman than some kind of personal relationship that they were supposed to have. For all that the Joker suggested that they needed one another, it was always just about his psychotic
obsession with Batman more than anything else, and Batman responding out of necessity. At least thats what I got out of it.

 

[AJUMP23]

Needed more knights at night.

 

[GeekyDad]

Hmmm…I view it as more of a one sided obsession that The Joker had with Batman than some kind of personal relationship that they were supposed to have. For all that the Joker suggested that they needed one another, it was always just about his psychotic
obsession with Batman more than anything else, and Batman responding out of necessity. At least thats what I got out of it.

True, but I think Joker was also right about their relationship. It was something Bruce ignores, but still true -- they needed each other in terms of his being Batman. A disgusting truth that simply defines the way things were, but not the way things had to be. And that was the nature of Joker as told by Nolan.

I don't think, however, Joker was speaking about a "personal" relationship so much as a cosmic one.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

Umm... Did you forget the scene when Joker is in the jail cell?

He gets under everyone's skin. Batman almost kills him trying to find out where she is.

After that he's hollow, empty. Like most people are after they lose someone. But he pushes thru because Dent went nuts and his next best buddy's son gets kidnapped.

To me The Dark Knight is about as close as it gets to a comic book movie masterpiece. Only thing comparable is Logan.

I see what you mean about their relationship, as it's true. That did not get fleshed out, though I feel like that was meant to happen in another movie. But each one of their encounters was memorable, all the way down to the end.

It fleshed Joker out, and kinda had you take a look at him from Batman's perspective. Which is.. how do I deal with this psycho without breaking my code?

 

[bender]

Heath's performance just outclasses everyone else, Bale's performances throughout the movies especially.

 

[AgatonSax]

It could have used a more Gothamy Gotham but I understand why they wanted to present a more normal cityscape given the film themes.

 

[AgatonSax]

I thought they connected really well in the last scene at the construction site.. remember Joker was to appear in the next movie and that relationship was meant to blossom and flesh out over the course of a few movies

Two face was more of a 1-hit wonder.. which was 1 of my biggest issues with the movie

I think there was realistically only going to be one more movie and I’m not sure how well Joker would have worked thematically with Bane’s revolution in TDKR.

 

[FunkMiller]

Still the best comic book movie ever made, and still the only one to transcend the genre.

 

[KrakenIPA]

It's a great comic book movie, with so many great lines (word-for-word lines from The Long Halloween). I think it's strength is it's characters, Bale's portrayal is wooden but it works with the supporting cast.

Maybe more on topic: I didn't understand the whole 'Rachel letter to Bruce' thing for years. I had to look it up online. That was a cold relationship har!

 

[Soltype]

Enjoyed the film a lot over repeated viewings, but there are little things I find jarring. They spend so much time grounding these films in reality, so when certain things pop up it's harder for me to suspend my disbelief.Think the first movie had a better balance.

 

[sinnergy]

I dunno I felt that last scene was a bit underwhelming, it was just Batman going "haha I foiled your plan again". Maybe the problem is I never felt that the Joker got under Batman's skin, if you know what I mean. The great Batman/Joker stories/movies always involve the Joker doing something to really mess with Batman, to get under his skin, etc...I don't think they did a good job with that in The Dark Knight.

This is also why I felt the decision to make Joker the killer of Bruce's parents in Batman 1989 an acceptable creative change to me. The writers knew they had to set up Joker to have a more personal connection with Batman if he is to be the "arch-villain". In the comics we know Joker has been Batman's oldest foe and has killed Robin, etc...there isn't any of that backstory to work with in the movies so the writers have to do something else to create that connection between Joker and Batman. I think TDK failed to do that well.

So kidnapping his girl and strapping her to a bomb is not getting under Batman’s skin? I think you have a different level of getting under someone’s skin than me?

 

[Schattenjäger]

I think there was realistically only going to be one more movie and I’m not sure how well Joker would have worked thematically with Bane’s revolution in TDKR.

I don’t think we would have Bane if Joker was in the third movie

 

[Fbh]

I thought that part was fine, it's the start of their relationship. If this version of Batman and the Joker had stayed around they'd probably have developed a more personal connection over time.

Honestly at this point my biggest issue with the movie is that after years of parodies I really struggle taking Bale Batman seriously when he makes the silly voice.

 

[IDKFA]

It was missing the fun of previous Batman movies.

Where was the Batman credit card?

 

[Stop Motion Pornography]

The movie needed better tits.

This movie needs a better class of tits.

AND I'M GONNA GIVE IT TO 'EM

 

[Dural]

Maybe it did? But I couldn't really tell, honestly. I dunno if it was just a weak performance by Bale, or bad writing by Nolan. We saw Harvey in suicidal despair after losing Rachael, while Batman/Bruce was like ok whatever.

What do you expect with the changes to Rachel from Begins to Dark Knight?

The only issue with the movie is how two handsome ass, wealthy and successful dudes were fighting over Maggie Gyllenhaal. I mean, come on fellas, of all the girls in Gotham City...

Exactly!

 

[thefool]

I think their idea was Joker as a manifestation of the weird shit Gotham is slowly becoming, which Batman plays a big part. Damn shame he wasn't around for Rises.

 

[Halo is Back]

I disagree. They were great together on screen. Such a shame we never got a third movie with Heath Ledger. I hate drugs.

 

[Pagusas]

I think the biggest problem (and take that word very lightly, as I love the DK) is the LACK of actual direct screen time with the two of them. They were only in the same frame together in 2 scenes in the entire movie if I recall. It would have been nice to have future films with those 2 badass actors getting to directly interact more.

 

[Nikana]

I like the Dark Knight but Begins has always been the better movie for me.

 

[Mitsuda Maniac]

I like the Dark Knight but Begins has always been the better movie for me.

Yeah Begins feels like a better Batman experience IMO.

TDK was great but also too long and corny towards the end. We could have skipped the whole deciding whether or not to blow up the other ship moral quandary sequence and lost nothing of any value.

 

[Nikana]

Yeah Begins feels like a better Batman experience IMO.

TDK was great but also too long and corny towards the end. We could have skipped the whole deciding whether or not to blow up the other ship moral quandary sequence and lost nothing of any value.

Bale in the suit never clicked with me in TDK or TDKR. I like him as Wayne in all 3 for the most part.

 

[FunkMiller]

Well… the fucking Dark Knight doesn’t have its own Oreo cookie, does it??!

https://www.adweek.com/brand-market...ies-with-riddles-that-unlock-the-batcave/amp/

Checkmate atheists!

 

[dr_octagon]

not enough tangerines