The Descent Devs praise Gamepass. Increase in sales

Will gamepass continue as a viable service?

  • Duh. Devs win ($$$) MS win ($$) & gamers win(🎮)

    Votes: 38 71.7%
  • Nah. This is one example. It devalues the hard work of developing

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • Possibly. Only if it gains more traction

    Votes: 5 9.4%

  • Total voters
    53

Dolomite

Member
Tripled is quite good. I wonder if bigger games/more known games see a higher or lower increase?
Just found out today that all first party titles are coming to gamepass. I can only imagine sales increase. I just don't see MS giving away games with no plan for the service to make Devs money in return
 

Dr Bass

Member
Sony fanboys in hiding.

Why is everything a war with some people? This has nothing to do with Sony. :rolleyes:

Pretty interesting result, but I'd be curious to see the numbers. I doubt more music is sold because of things like Spotify and Apple Music. Why would that many people play the game for free to their hearts content, then go buy it? Their numbers would have to be pretty low to see 3x total sales and 5x increase on a weekly basis, no?

Regardless, I think the idea of Game Pass is great if it works out for everyone.
 
I’m happy for them, descenders is a great game but probably would have faded in to just a tiny niche playerbase (especially on Xbox) had people not played it on the gamepass
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Just found out today that all first party titles are coming to gamepass. I can only imagine sales increase. I just don't see MS giving away games with no plan for the service to make Devs money in return

Thats been happening awhile.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Just found out today that all first party titles are coming to gamepass. I can only imagine sales increase. I just don't see MS giving away games with no plan for the service to make Devs money in return

It's not "giving away" games because you pay for the service. Ten dollars a month, in theory. If Microsoft can get 10 million players on this service, that's 100 million dollars a month to do whatever it wants with. Pay devs to put games on Game Pass, fund exclusive Game Pass games, put a little in their pockets for profit. Game Pass IS the "plan to make money." It's literally monthly recurring revenue, or MRR in SaaS speak.
 
Why is everything a war with some people? This has nothing to do with Sony. :rolleyes:

Pretty interesting result, but I'd be curious to see the numbers. I doubt more music is sold because of things like Spotify and Apple Music. Why would that many people play the game for free to their hearts content, then go buy it? Their numbers would have to be pretty low to see 3x total sales and 5x increase on a weekly basis, no?

Regardless, I think the idea of Game Pass is great if it works out for everyone.

Certain people on this forum have been claiming Game Pass will devalue games and devs won't get paid. Just thought it was funny that the exact opposite is happening.
 
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Dolomite

Member
Why is everything a war with some people? This has nothing to do with Sony. :rolleyes:

Pretty interesting result, but I'd be curious to see the numbers. I doubt more music is sold because of things like Spotify and Apple Music. Why would that many people play the game for free to their hearts content, then go buy it? Their numbers would have to be pretty low to see 3x total sales and 5x increase on a weekly basis, no?

Regardless, I think the idea of Game Pass is great if it works out for everyone.
Artist make more touring than records sold. I mean artist used to get paid fractions of cent on the dollar😂😂
Also people buy games because titles are usually on GP for about a yr tops. Like Netflix, the shows don't stay there forever. Few IPs have been renewed but many people simply buy if they like it, because they have 100's of other games to try for free that may also be gone soon. GTA was on gamepass for a long time, and just recently was replaced with Red Dead. Most GTA online players simply ponied up and bought it when it left gamepass to keep playing...into MS's hand muhahahahah!
 
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I mean it makes sense that GamePass is good for the developers/publishers. MS pays indie devs good money to put a game on GP (sometimes even at launch) practically guaranteeing the game will be successful and giving them free marketing as well. For big publishers, the games are often older and past the biggest sales point, so getting some money to put the game on the service is also big for them as it’s basically free money. I have a feeling that the Konami games (MGS and PES mostly) will stay on GP for a long time as it makes sense for Konami to just accept the few million to keep the games on the service.

And for MS, it’s perfectly sustainable too now that they have a lot of subs. It’s rumored they paid $20,000,000 for DMCV like 4 months after launch to come to game pass, and with 10,000,000 paying subs it’s barely a dent in their revenues but still a good amount to give
 

Arkam

Member
tripled from what to what? I have no idea who they are so I would hazard any exposure will increase their sales. Hell this thread probably will. I think people want to know what Gamepass does for games that historically would have sold a couple million copies. Is it better worse for developer/publisher and MS.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
It sounds like PS+ right? The game is bundled into the sub and the developers given a cut? Then analytics will just take over - what's trending? Descenders - oh right let;s check that out. Looks cool, I'll buy or subscribe.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Certain people on this forum have been claiming Game Pass will devalue games and devs won't get paid. Just thought it was funny that the exact opposite is happening.

It's an anecdotal case and doesn't prove anything one way or the other. Therefore no one should be using it. We don't know their numbers. Tripling sales of 100 copies to 300 isn't anything great. If it was 1 million to 3 million that would be fantastic. After looking at the game I have a feeling their numbers aren't high.

I don't see the argument for Game Pass devaluing games necessarily. If the numbers work out, devs will want their game on the service. If not, they won't and no one is forcing them to. Microsoft can put their own games on their own service all they want. And if other companies are putting their games on the service, then Microsoft is giving them enough money to make it seemingly worth their while.

I don't foresee any "We were doing amazing ... and then Game Pass came along" stories in the near future.
 

Dolomite

Member
It's not "giving away" games because you pay for the service. Ten dollars a month, in theory. If Microsoft can get 10 million players on this service, that's 100 million dollars a month to do whatever it wants with. Pay devs to put games on Game Pass, fund exclusive Game Pass games, put a little in their pockets for profit. Game Pass IS the "plan to make money." It's literally monthly recurring revenue, or MRR in SaaS speak.
 

zeorhymer

Member
I was a little confused. At first I thought it was the Descent game from back in the day because of the title. Then I realized it was the crazy bike game that was being promoted.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
I was a little confused. At first I thought it was the Descent game from back in the day because of the title. Then I realized it was the crazy bike game that was being promoted.

Ok but what about a Descent 90s game with bikes?
 

Dr Bass

Member
Artist make more touring than records sold. I mean artist used to get paid fractions of cent on the dollar😂😂
Also people buy games because titles are usually on GP for about a yr tops. Like Netflix, the shows don't stay there forever. Few IPs have been renewed but many people simply buy if they like it, because they have 100's of other games to try for free that may also be gone soon. GTA was on gamepass for a long time, and just recently was replaced with Red Dead. Most GTA online players simply ponied up and bought it when it left gamepass to keep playing...into MS's hand muhahahahah!

Ok that makes way more sense to me then. I had Game Pass for a bit but let it expire after I sold my One X in prep for the XSX. I didn't realize games were removed. If people are buying more games after a game is removed, or in anticipation of a game being removed that seems like win/win to me.
 

Kuranghi

Gold Member
Good to have an account of it being a straight benefit, are their any other devs who've publicly said the opposite/had a different experience?
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Good to have an account of it being a straight benefit, are their any other devs who've publicly said the opposite/had a different experience?

Night School studios said something similar and praised the service.

“What I was worried about was, 'Is this going to cannibalize other sales early on?' That was the main concern. If this is going to be out on the same platform -- I want people buying it on Xbox still -- but what we found out was not only did it not [cannibalize sales], it increased our sales everywhere else on every platform,” Krankel said.
 

Kuranghi

Gold Member
It would be cool if they made a really good game with the subscription money they are making, is there a plan to have large-scale games exclusive to the service?

If not I guess its just going back into the first party studios, so we'll see the results there.
 

Dolomite

Member
Night School studios said something similar and praised the service.

“What I was worried about was, 'Is this going to cannibalize other sales early on?' That was the main concern. If this is going to be out on the same platform -- I want people buying it on Xbox still -- but what we found out was not only did it not [cannibalize sales], it increased our sales everywhere else on every platform,” Krankel said.
Oh wow. Do you have a link? I'd like to read that article
 

Neofire

Member
Of course he's praising game pass. Who the fuck would play this shit if it wasn't on game pass? Looks garbage.
Yeah the game looks super generic but that is subjective.

Whoever I love how people get one indy dev saying "sales tripled" on a clear budget friend game and act as though every developer is making bank.

Not knocking the dev that increased their sales through GP but let's not get carried away from one incident folks 👀
 
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It's absolutely a great fit for high quality indie games that might slip under the radar otherwise. Just don't expect third party day 1 AAA games there any time soon.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
It would be cool if they made a really good game with the subscription money they are making, is there a plan to have large-scale games exclusive to the service?

If not I guess its just going back into the first party studios, so we'll see the results there.

I think thats the idea. They are using Game Pass to not only make money but are using it to fund their first party games. Exclusvies on the service wont really help in theory because all of their first party games are coming to the service Day 1 anyway.
 

Dolomite

Member
Yeah the game looks super generic but that is subjective.

Whoever I love how people get one indy dev saying "sales tripled" on a clear budget friend game and act as though every developer is making bank.

Not knocking the dev that increased their sales through GP but let's not get carried away from one incident folks 👀
Not every show makes money on Netflix. But the service offers exposure to an audience that otherwise wouldn't care or can't afford it. At worse a Developer doesn't triple their money, they still get paid to have thier content hosted🤷🏾‍♂️

MS paid 20 mill for DMC to hit gamepass, and it didn't do crazy numbers. Still a great value for gamers who cared and MS made that 20 M's back in under a month. 10 million subs @10-$15 = 100-150 million a month
 

Ellery

Member
I love gamepass, but I am genuinely terrified of future impact in game design and models.

It sounds stupid when I say it, but my favorite type of games are Full Price AAA games I pay 60-70$ for one time and own it physical for the rest of my life.

I know I am going to subscribe to Gamepass in the future again. It is like Netflix. They sometimes have great old movies, but the stuff they make is never quite satisfying enough and you won't get The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Zelda, Mario on it, but I played some older indie games, Forza, Gears and Prey (awesome awesome game. underrated. play it!) on it and for 1$ it was unbeatable.
 

Roberts

Member
Pretty interesting result, but I'd be curious to see the numbers. I doubt more music is sold because of things like Spotify and Apple Music. Why would that many people play the game for free to their hearts content, then go buy it? Their numbers would have to be pretty low to see 3x total sales and 5x increase on a weekly basis, no?

Regardless, I think the idea of Game Pass is great if it works out for everyone.

I do it with films: if I like the movie I saw on a streaming service, I buy it on blu. I bet there are tons of people who do the same with games.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I love gamepass, but I am genuinely terrified of future impact in game design and models.

It sounds stupid when I say it, but my favorite type of games are Full Price AAA games I pay 60-70$ for one time and own it physical for the rest of my life.

I know I am going to subscribe to Gamepass in the future again. It is like Netflix. They sometimes have great old movies, but the stuff they make is never quite satisfying enough and you won't get The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Zelda, Mario on it, but I played some older indie games, Forza, Gears and Prey (awesome awesome game. underrated. play it!) on it and for 1$ it was unbeatable.

I really don't understand this attitude. Even using your Netflix example; Netflix is throwing around the budgets of the big movie studios and then some, same with TV studios. They only started doing this a couple years ago so we haven't seen the fruits of that labor (aside from The Irishman, which cost them $160 million reportedly.)

But this also isn't Netflix so stop trying to make that analogy fit lol

The trick to understanding the GamePass "math" is that you need to forget how much money you personally spend as a hardcore gamer, and think about the kind of money the AVERAGE person spends. The overall software tie / attach ratio for a console on the market for ~7 years is generally well under 10. Usually around 7-9.

Which means the average gamer is buying well under 2 games per year. The idea for MS is that eventually once it catches on they hope people continue to subscribe at the $10 a month price, which means the average person is spending more money not less than they were before even WITHOUT factoring in the fact people are encouraged by having access to so many games to spend extra outside the sub.

Yes the money is distributed among MS and third parties but I really doubt MS is paying THAT MUCH for the majority of content on Gamepass. The games that come to GamePass (and XBL Gold, PS+, PSNow, Epic Game Store free deals, etc.) are way past their revenue generating primes or are dinky little indie games.

Either way just like Netflix started producing high budget content MS wants big AAA games to sell the service along with the smaller games for people to want to keep subscribing.

People have to ignore the insane discounts MS gave out and remember the actual price is supposed to be the same as 2 AAA games per year.. which is as much or more than the average gamer is spending anyways.
 
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I LOVE Descent. played it tons way back with my friends and get dizzy from running around the 3D maps collecting power up and ammo while killing each other. but regarding these sort of things, I feel they might be an exception rather than the rule. with these sort of service, yes more people will get to know the games, but a lot of them will treat these games like sampler plates in supermarkets, tried them and think nothing of it afterwards. I'm not sure how devs get pay for these sort of deals but I feel in the end it might actually hurt some of the games more than helping them over all. I'm not sure what's a good solution for it thou and my limited knowledge with these arrangements might be completely wrong and it could be awesome for the devs so don't quote me on it.
 

Sota4077

Member
Just found out today that all first party titles are coming to gamepass. I can only imagine sales increase. I just don't see MS giving away games with no plan for the service to make Devs money in return

Ignorance on full display here.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Not every show makes money on Netflix. But the service offers exposure to an audience that otherwise wouldn't care or can't afford it. At worse a Developer doesn't triple their money, they still get paid to have thier content hosted🤷🏾‍♂️

MS paid 20 mill for DMC to hit gamepass
, and it didn't do crazy numbers. Still a great value for gamers who cared and MS made that 20 M's back in under a month. 10 million subs @10-$15 = 100-150 million a month

Source?
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Yeah the game looks super generic but that is subjective.

Whoever I love how people get one indy dev saying "sales tripled" on a clear budget friend game and act as though every developer is making bank.

Not knocking the dev that increased their sales through GP but let's not get carried away from one incident folks 👀
In this thread alone people have provided links from devs of 3 games that praise being on gamepass and have similar sales stories. I have yet to see a dev come out and claim gamepass hurt their bottom line but I could have missed it.
 

Griffon

Member
Just like how some devs had praises for the effects of Bundles back when it was starting out.
That was very shortsighted.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Yeah the game looks super generic but that is subjective.

Whoever I love how people get one indy dev saying "sales tripled" on a clear budget friend game and act as though every developer is making bank.

Not knocking the dev that increased their sales through GP but let's not get carried away from one incident folks 👀

Good thing it's more than one dev then huh.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
I don't doubt it is huge for smaller developers to get your game exposure leading to general word of mouth and increase in overall sales. Gamespass is great the small guy gets exposure not a large audience and guaranteed income. The big guys get extra revenue from a game that is no longer selling. Gamers especially families get a large diversified library for a fixed cost.
 

jigglet

Member
I can see this. When I was subscribed to Gamepass, I used it as a demo service, with the intention of buying whichever games I actually liked.
 

supernova8

Member
Not really sure about what it all means for the larger publishers, but I just checked and there are 242 console games on Game Pass, of which just over 20 are 360 games.

I suppose if you really binged on games a lot and played a shit ton it'd be worth it but otherwise I wouldn't pay for it. Don't like companies getting the needle in, so to speak.
 
Glad to hear it. I've certainly played more games because of GP and given my experience I've purchased an additional 3-4 games than I would have without GP this year so far.
 

Clear

Member
Mark my words. This is going to go just like mobile. At first the minnows do well, but once the big fish arrive and start to dominate mindshare and attention... they die off fast.
 
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