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The Fallacy Of Game Pass “Value”

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martino

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There is plenty of value if you want it for the MS published stuff. Just don't "expect" anything from 3rd parties and whatever you can play in that category is a bonus.

I could see Gamepass becoming a second wind for third party games not finding audience because releasing in crowded periods.
 
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DaGwaphics

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A lot of great third-party stuff has passed through GP since its launch. Most of it years after release, so while you can't count on anything specific coming there, they've done a good job keeping the content interesting, IMO.
 

danielJackson

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5 years of gamepass Ultimate = about 930€

"That is only 11-12 PS5 games!"

Is the faulty logic.

Like it would be only option to pay full price, Sony aint nintendo you know?

For 930€ PS5 gamer can get:

2x12x5 ps+ games for 200-250€ = 120 games that are permanent, if you continue to pay 35-45€/year for ps+ on sales

For rest 500-600€ you can buy 10-100 games depending sales/used game prices.

So for same sum you can get max 220 games, realisticly maybe 150-180, or zero games that you can keep on gamepass, but more launch games(i dont know how many games live gold gives, so lets say 2/month too)

Whom plays even 100 games/gen?

That is why gamepass isnt as good as people say, lot of games but they dont add value as time is limited

And if xbox gamer also buys games that arent on the pass = they spend even more than 930€
 
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Riky

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The first party games which are day one aren't time limited though, so even for those it's worth it. Add in Starfield, Elder Scrolls and Fallout for starters and whatever happens to Quake and Doom on top.
 

DavJay

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Are you on crack? Game pass offers too much value. People just wonder if it can be sustained. That of an inevitable price increase. $10-$15 is really too good to be true where it is at. And that’s without ea play or Bethesda at the moment.
 

Rentahamster

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The point is that while Gamepass has a lot of new games on its service, it’s still limited by not having brand new 3rd party games there. The value argument is lost then since it’s those games that will be full priced and are the most popular and played games are both consoles.
You just made a case for why it doesn't have value by completely ignoring the things that give it value. Good job bro.
 
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lastmessiah

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Are you on crack? Game pass offers too much value. People just wonder if it can be sustained. That of an inevitable price increase. $10-$15 is really too good to be true where it is at. And that’s without ea play or Bethesda at the moment.

they won’t bump up the price too much. The more subscribers, the more profit. The most for the standard sub will be $20, but that’s the very most.
 

zcaa0g

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I’m seeing some discussions about how Gamepass saves you more money compared to PS5 since PS5 games cost $70. Here is where that perception is mistaken:games on the Series X/S will cost $70 too. The price increase of games seems to be only revolving around the PS5. I have no idea why. It’s an industry wide change. 2K was the first to announce their games will be $70 for both PS5 and SX.

Adding to that is the assumption that all these $70 games will be on Gamepass. They won’t. So SX XSS owners will be paying the same $70 too. Where is the Gamepass “value” then? Half value?

People are making the mistake of thinking all 3rd party games will be on Gamepass. They won’t.

I’m not denying Gamepass doesn’t have new games to play and isn’t worth it. All MS games will be there day one. The arguments in its favor though are painting this fantasy picture where you’re getting all games for this cheap price and that’s not true. The big 3rd party games this year like Watchdogs Legion, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, Cyberpunk 2077, COD Cold War, NBA2K21, are all $60 to $70, all not on Gamepass. People who have Gamepass will be paying the same total cost as PS5 owners.

The point is that while Gamepass has a lot of new games on its service, it’s still limited by not having brand new 3rd party games there. The value argument is lost then since it’s those games that will be full priced and are the most popular and played games are both consoles.


Your opinion would be worth a damn if you were saying that as a neutral observer as opposed to being a PS5 fanboy and being a fanboy of anything is sad. They are just devices to play games and nothing to get worked up about.
 

megreotsugua

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5 years of gamepass Ultimate = about 930€

"That is only 11-12 PS5 games!"

Is the faulty logic.

Like it would be only option to pay full price, Sony aint nintendo you know?

For 930€ PS5 gamer can get:

2x12x5 ps+ games for 200-250€ = 120 games that are permanent, if you continue to pay 35-45€/year for ps+ on sales

For rest 500-600€ you can buy 10-100 games depending sales/used game prices.

So for same sum you can get max 220 games, realisticly maybe 150-180, or zero games that you can keep on gamepass, but more launch games(i dont know how many games live gold gives, so lets say 2/month too)

Whom plays even 100 games/gen?

That is why gamepass isnt as good as people say, lot of games but they dont add value as time is limited

And if xbox gamer also buys games that arent on the pass = they spend even more than 930€

And you get to choose which games to spend money into.
 
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Chukhopops

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5 years of gamepass Ultimate = about 930€

"That is only 11-12 PS5 games!"

Is the faulty logic.

Like it would be only option to pay full price, Sony aint nintendo you know?

For 930€ PS5 gamer can get:

2x12x5 ps+ games for 200-250€ = 120 games that are permanent, if you continue to pay 35-45€/year for ps+ on sales

For rest 500-600€ you can buy 10-100 games depending sales/used game prices.

So for same sum you can get max 220 games, realisticly maybe 150-180, or zero games that you can keep on gamepass, but more launch games(i dont know how many games live gold gives, so lets say 2/month too)

Whom plays even 100 games/gen?

That is why gamepass isnt as good as people say, lot of games but they dont add value as time is limited

And if xbox gamer also buys games that arent on the pass = they spend even more than 930€

Let's count all the assumptions and mistakes here:
  • Calculates the cost for GP at 186€ per year, which is 15.6€ / month. Even if you're on GP ultimate in the Euro zone and don't use any loophole you pay 12.99€;
  • PS+ on the other hand is assumed to be at the lowest possible yearly cost during sales. To compare apples to apples you'd have to count PS+ at €59.99/year which is already €299 over 5 years;
  • Mentions PS+ games, ignores XBL Gold games which are actually 4 per month (although it includes BC games). Quality between PS+ and XBL Gold is more or less equivalent;
  • You can buy "up to 100 games" for PS5 for 500-600€, which is 5.5€ / game, in the real world even an outdated version of FIFA will be sold for more than that, digital or physical;
  • Assumes you can't cancel GP if you have a slow month, or you're simply playing something different for a bit;
  • Assumes people don't play "100 games/gen" or 20 games/year, when actually that doesn't seem that high if you include indies and SP games. Normiecore will play fewer, hardcore will play more but it's not a crazy number.
And yet, despite all this, the end result doesn't look that good. On the PS side you have 120 PS+ games and 100 CEX bargain bin games bought at 5.5€, while on GP you have had 5 years of day 1 releases, older 3rd party games, indies etc. Clearly the value seems to be more on the MS side.
 

Mmnow

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Gamers have to be the only people on the planet upset about getting a good deal...
"Gamepass will be a failure because I can just subscribe for a few months and play every Xbox game I want through PC. It's like Microsoft aren't even TRYING to nickel and dime me, and I HATE it."

A good way of bringing on a migraine is to read this thread and then the Spiderman remaster thread.
 
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martino

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So most cons i can read in this thread only stand if we assume it's a bad thing if you don't keep your games and most people care about that.
Seems the only problem is a specific audience cannot see further than the tip of their nose.
Imagine all time and energy game pass save to all people with not a lot of money trading second hand copy of games or waiting for low digital prices.
with gamepass they can play lot of games and possibly sooner.
 
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DrScissorsMD

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I see OP's point. It's a narrative that's building. Maybe Sony's marketing should get on the job. That's what they're paid to do. It has been smart by MS to create the perception around it through influencers. The masses and details don't mix well. MS is counting on that.
D’Ghost agreeing with something anti-MS, MildShock.gif
Give me a single, just one, example of an influencer peddling this. And I’m talking one worth a damn, not some less-than-1000-subs nobody from YouTube. No one says this, anywhere, ever. Ridiculous strawman.
Lot of people (more?) don't really care about MS first party though !
Are you suggesting a lot of people don’t care about the next Elder Scrolls? And that’s just one example.
It's different how we consume games from the likes of movies and shows or even music. The Spotify/Netflix for gaming will simply not work in large scale as they think it will.

Casual gamers will primarily play free-to-play games and the yearly iteration of COD/FIFA/NBA which they play for months and months. They of course play some other games occasionally that they can borrow from a friend, a game on sale, or a cheap second hand game. This class of gamers will find no value in game pass when there are cheaper alternative out there that will let them play the games that they want.

Hardcore gamers will find no value in a glorified rental of games even if it has a selection of hundreds of games if the games they want are not included. And a lot of games, the majority actually, will not be included in Game Pass.

When Starfield turns out to be a good game, I'll pay $10 on PC Game Pass, play the game, finish the game, and unsubscribe. MS just made game rentals very easy for everyone.

MS is inflating Game Pass numbers by including everyone who have subscribed once and those who just tried the service. In order for it to be sustainable it has to have regular paying subscribers. Reality will hit hard to Phil Spencer when his plan to come back through Game Pass starts to break apart.
Cool so you gave an example of GPs value by showing how you got to play a game you wanted to for cheap. Nice self-own. Source on MS “inflating” GP numbers? No? Talking out your ass? Also your argument about Free to Play or MMOs somehow devaluing GP makes no sense at all, as if the only metric that mattered was sheer engagement for a singular game, then FTP and MMOs also devalue all the one and done Sony 1st party games. Like it’s ironically a far better example of a fallacy than anything OP has said.
  • Game Pass will also have to contend with a lot of free-to-play games that obliterate Game Pass when it comes to engagement metrics. Casual gamers will always gravitate towards free-to-play games. They of course play other games too occasionally. Borrowing from a friend, buying games on sale, or buying second hand games are all cheaper way to play games "THAT YOU REALLY WANT".

The only people that Game Pass will attract are:
  • MS hardcore fans
  • Trophy/Achievement hunters
  • Occasional subscribers who subscribe and unsubscribe when a game pops up that they really want and they can't get them for cheaper outside of gamepass. Basically renting the game for $10. Not bad.
There are cheaper ways to economize and still play the games that you really want.
Again, source on these magical GP user metrics you’re pulling from your ass?
Quoted for truth.

The Netflix model doesn't make sense for games, simply because engagement time with games is EXTREMELY variable compared to films.

Films are typically one-and-done two hour sessions: it's very unlikely that a movie will be taken off Netflix in the middle of you watching it. Games, on the other hand, are things people can (and expect to) come back to for hundreds of hours over the course of months.

I imagine people won't be so hot on GP once a "free" game they liked gets taken off the service before they were finished playing it.
As someone else already pointed out to you, not only do they tell you when certain games are leaving the service, they offer a discount on purchasing the game in full that almost always means you end up paying the same as you would have had you purchased the game initially anyway. Saying “20%, hOw PaLtRy” doesn’t negate this.
It's a great value for the audience I enumerated above. With that said, PS Now is also a good value whenever a game pops up there that you want to play. $10 rental is not bad especially if you can't get the game for cheaper.

But it will not hit critical mass appeal because of how different we consume games from movies, shows and music. Free-to-play games alone obliterates all game pass engagement metrics. Let alone MMO.
Just re-iterating how illogical your “but free to play/MMOs” argument is.
 

Zefah

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What in the world is this thread? It has to offer every game ever released for the platform day and date at $10 a month to be a good value?
 

martino

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D’Ghost agreeing with something anti-MS, MildShock.gif
Give me a single, just one, example of an influencer peddling this. And I’m talking one worth a damn, not some less-than-1000-subs nobody from YouTube. No one says this, anywhere, ever. Ridiculous strawman.

Are you suggesting a lot of people don’t care about the next Elder Scrolls? And that’s just one example.

Cool so you gave an example of GPs value by showing how you got to play a game you wanted to for cheap. Nice self-own. Source on MS “inflating” GP numbers? No? Talking out your ass? Also your argument about Free to Play or MMOs somehow devaluing GP makes no sense at all, as if the only metric that mattered was sheer engagement for a singular game, then FTP and MMOs also devalue all the one and done Sony 1st party games. Like it’s ironically a far better example of a fallacy than anything OP has said.

Again, source on these magical GP user metrics you’re pulling from your ass?

As someone else already pointed out to you, not only do they tell you when certain games are leaving the service, they offer a discount on purchasing the game in full that almost always means you end up paying the same as you would have had you purchased the game initially anyway. Saying “20%, hOw PaLtRy” doesn’t negate this.

Just re-iterating how illogical your “but free to play/MMOs” argument is.
of course there is always more poeple that don't care than that care.
 

Gravemind

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Gamepass has a ton of you boys shook as fuck. So many concern threads.

Dont subscribe to it then. We dont care. Let all of us that do choose to use it just enjoy it.
 

DrScissorsMD

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imo it puts perspective on weight of this claim
How? How does it lend any credence to what OP has said. GP is not mandatory, it is an option. OP saying “but it’ll cost the same to purchase 3rd party on Xbox too!” has no negative consequences to GPs value; if anything, it’s enhancing the value for those who would’ve waited to see it said game ends up on GP anyway, and has no impact on everyone else who wouldn’t. It’s a non-starter.
 

martino

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How? How does it lend any credence to what OP has said. GP is not mandatory, it is an option. OP saying “but it’ll cost the same to purchase 3rd party on Xbox too!” has no negative consequences to GPs value; if anything, it’s enhancing the value for those who would’ve waited to see it said game ends up on GP anyway, and has no impact on everyone else who wouldn’t. It’s a non-starter.
Of course and i think i said something like that earlier in this thread.
 
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I have never seen anyone, anywhere else on the internet, claim that every third party game was coming to game pass on day one or ever. That must have got stuck in your head at some point while you were doing mental gymnastics to make this post.

You have also went and done a number on yourself, convincing yourself that 70 dollar games are some unavoidable reality. When the reality is in the hands of you, the buyer. They (game publishers) would buckle faster than you think if the community collectively came together and told them no. Unfortunately your pants are already around your ankles and you have forgone any notion of voting with your wallet.

Instead you were to busy trying to convince people on another platform that saving money with game pass is bad to notice the actual bad price increase slip right up your butt hole. Do what you want though man. You want to throwaway 70 dollars on microtransaction infested games, be my guest.
 
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On Demand

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Gamepass has a ton of you boys shook as fuck. So many concern threads.

Dont subscribe to it then. We dont care. Let all of us that do choose to use it just enjoy it.

Nobody is “shook” of a service. lol.

I’m pointing out the false ideas about it’s value.

I mean if you really want to get into it, PSNow has over 800 hundred games. 7x more than Game Pass. That would make it the more valuable service. But as usual perception shapes everything. Partly Sony’s fault too since they don’t really advertise it.
 

Flintty

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Funny that the l people concerned about the value are usually non Xbox gamers.

P.S. if you use the word ‘fallacy’ in thread titles I kind of get the feeling you belong at Reee. Dunno why 🙈
 

Torrent of Pork

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People are making the mistake of thinking all 3rd party games will be on Gamepass. They won’t.
 

DavJay

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Nobody is “shook” of a service. lol.

I’m pointing out the false ideas about it’s value.

I mean if you really want to get into it, PSNow has over 800 hundred games. 7x more than Game Pass. That would make it the more valuable service. But as usual perception shapes everything. Partly Sony’s fault too since they don’t really advertise it.

But you only get old games. Big difference.
 

AV

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Are you joking right? Its on every game thread, why i must spend 80 on games when I have gamepass? Good luck playing cod on game pass for example

If it's in every thread, it shouldn't be hard for you to link me to ONE example of a person claiming that ALL third party games are on Game Pass.
 
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Just remember that at the end of the day, you own strictly nothing.
And for guys like me @40+, time has much much more value than anything. Gamepass only has value if you have time to effectively play all those games.
I'd rather buy the best ones and play 5-6 games a year, and with constant sales, it costs less than gp subscription. For 15€/month during a year i can buy 7-9 stellar games on sales that:
- i chose
- i own for life
- i'm not limited to ms curation
 

On Demand

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But you only get old games. Big difference.

There are recent games on there too. A streaming service shouldn’t only have old or new content anyway or be defined by that. People don’t use Netflix and Hulu to only watch movies from 2020. It’s the entire catalogue.

I can flip that and say Game Pass only has new games with no back catalogue. See how easily the perception can change?

800 games is 800 games. Doesn’t matter what year they’re from.
 
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Gravemind

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Nobody is “shook” of a service. lol.

I’m pointing out the false ideas about it’s value.

I mean if you really want to get into it, PSNow has over 800 hundred games. 7x more than Game Pass. That would make it the more valuable service. But as usual perception shapes everything. Partly Sony’s fault too since they don’t really advertise it.



Keep telling yourself that. Whatever makes you feel like your "choice" is justified.
 
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Snakeyes313

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I’m seeing some discussions about how Gamepass saves you more money compared to PS5 since PS5 games cost $70. Here is where that perception is mistaken:games on the Series X/S will cost $70 too. The price increase of games seems to be only revolving around the PS5. I have no idea why. It’s an industry wide change. 2K was the first to announce their games will be $70 for both PS5 and SX.

Adding to that is the assumption that all these $70 games will be on Gamepass. They won’t. So SX XSS owners will be paying the same $70 too. Where is the Gamepass “value” then? Half value?

People are making the mistake of thinking all 3rd party games will be on Gamepass. They won’t.

I’m not denying Gamepass doesn’t have new games to play and isn’t worth it. All MS games will be there day one. The arguments in its favor though are painting this fantasy picture where you’re getting all games for this cheap price and that’s not true. The big 3rd party games this year like Watchdogs Legion, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, Cyberpunk 2077, COD Cold War, NBA2K21, are all $60 to $70, all not on Gamepass. People who have Gamepass will be paying the same total cost as PS5 owners.

The point is that while Gamepass has a lot of new games on its service, it’s still limited by not having brand new 3rd party games there. The value argument is lost then since it’s those games that will be full priced and are the most popular and played games are both consoles.
Honestly the winner of dumbest BS comment/Theory ever here on GAF, Congratulations Salty Mc salt salt
 
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Balducci30

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Uh what exactly is the fallacy here? PlayStation first party games are $70, Microsoft first party games are on gamepass
 

kungfuian

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I would actually think it's the opposite. Gamepass has so much value that it will devalue those 3rd games not included.

I would expect that, over time, X-box gamers are going to consume more and more of their games on this service. Newer 3rd party asking $70 will be competing with a vast library of gamepass games, and in comparison will seem super expensive.

I predict an increased pressure for these games to come to gamepass day 1 and a reduction in stand alone sales on the x-box platform as a result.
 

wolffy71

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What if Sony had great exclusives that were only available by purchase AND gamepass was a great value with MS exclusives day one and 100s of titles monthly? What a crazy world that would be.
 

On Demand

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Nobody does, its just absolute garbage he is spitting, vexed that his love for Sony is feeling under pressure from MS. absolute tool

Yes the market leader and bigger brand is under pressure from the lesser brand and lowest selling console.

Wut.

Try explaining yourself without insults.
 
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Gamepass only has value if you have time to effectively play all those games.
Nah, I also am an older gamer, though I do make time to play since it's my primary hobby. Gamepass lets me play a lot of titles that normally I would skip because of limited time. I don't feel compelled to finish a game because I paid 70+ for it. Now with gamepass if I'm not entertained I simply move on rather than trying to power thru something because I feel like I have to.
My time is valuable, and gamepass lets me capitalize on ensuring that time spent playing is fun.
I'd rather buy the best ones
So are you saying that when you buy a game you've NEVER been disappointed with it. You must have wicked luck then because I lost count how many times I've bought into hype, watched gameplay videos, etc and thought "that looks great" only to find out the game isn't fun for me and that I've wasted money on it
 

DavJay

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There are recent games on there too. A streaming service shouldn’t only have old or new content anyway or be defined by that. People don’t use Netflix and Hulu to only watch movies from 2020. It’s the entire catalogue.

I can flip that and say Game Pass only has new games with no back catalogue. See how easily the perception can change?

800 games is 800 games. Doesn’t matter what year they’re from.

but it does have old games. Ps now have no day one releases.
 

BlackTron

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I've only used PSNow on a friends system a few times, isn't that all just streaming or am I wrong?

I tried to play a puzzle game with it, it was terrible. I say this as someone who uses my PS4 Pro all the time and has almost no interest in a Xbox (I have a PC). Gamepass lets you download and install games to run locally, I don't care if you have 800 or 800,000 games, if you have to stream them all it's garbage to me. Unless I missed something and some of those 800 games can be run on your local machine, Gamepass is an entirely different league.

If you think game streaming is so great, watch Xbox do it probably better with xcloud (but I still wouldn't do it).
 

Mmnow

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I've only used PSNow on a friends system a few times, isn't that all just streaming or am I wrong?

I tried to play a puzzle game with it, it was terrible. I say this as someone who uses my PS4 Pro all the time and has almost no interest in a Xbox (I have a PC). Gamepass lets you download and install games to run locally, I don't care if you have 800 or 800,000 games, if you have to stream them all it's garbage to me. Unless I missed something and some of those 800 games can be run on your local machine, Gamepass is an entirely different league.

If you think game streaming is so great, watch Xbox do it probably better with xcloud (but I still wouldn't do it).
There are about 300 games to download now.
 

Spokker

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Gamepass has been good so far but a caveat. A lot of people got good deals and have subbed clear into 2021 and 2022.

If they keep the same quality in the future it will be worth subscribing to.
 

Stealth_Cobra

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Behind you !
Don't think Gamepass is half as good as people make it seem. For one, it's basically a glorified rental service, with games cycling out over time and you not really owning anything. Sure in theory once a game cycles out you can buy it at a discount, but I actually prefer the Sony Alternative where the free games they give you are forever yours to keep as long as you have an active subscription to access them. I currently have 235 PS+ free games acquired over the years, and I consider those part of my permanent game collection. Add the new PS Collection and PS Now to that and you have a pretty decent service as it is, and one that will probably get even better next gen due to the MS competition.

As for Gamepass, yes it's a good value if you enjoy first party ms titles and a couple exclusive zenimax games, but those are few and far in between, and you're paying each month, even though there's probably only be a couple games each year you'll be really interested with. For now, when I look at the library , there's not that much stufff I would want to play / that I don't already own, which explains why i'm lukewarm about the prospect. Then again I'm pretty indifferent about my 235+ PS+ games too... So I guess it's the same...

In the end, I think the big difference is Sony will give some / many their games for free to keep forever after a couple of months, versus Microsoft which will rent their games for free at the start, then eventually cycle them out of the program later down the road. Then again with the current conversion from live to gamepass deal going on it's a pretty good deal, I just find it hard to justify buying 180$ worth of live so I can get like a couple MS exclusives and maybe elder scrolls 6 in the next three years.
 
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