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The False and Exaggerated Claims Still Being Spread About the Capitol Riot - Glenn Greenwald

ManofOne

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One of the most significant of these falsehoods was the tale — endorsed over and over without any caveats by the media for more than a month — that Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick was murdered by the pro-Trump mob when they beat him to death with a fire extinguisher. That claim was first published by The New York Times on January 8 in an article headlined “Capitol Police Officer Dies From Injuries in Pro-Trump Rampage.” It cited “two [anonymous] law enforcement officials” to claim that Sicknick died “with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress” and after he “was struck with a fire extinguisher.”

A second New York Times article from later that day — bearing the more dramatic headline: “He Dreamed of Being a Police Officer, Then Was Killed by a Pro-Trump Mob” — elaborated on that story:

After the media bombarded Americans with this story for a full month without pause, it took center stage at Trump’s impeachment process. As former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy noted, the article of impeachment itself stated that “Trump supporters ‘injured and killed law enforcement personnel.’” The House impeachment managers explicitly claimed on page 28 of their pretrial memorandum that “the insurrectionists killed a Capitol Police officer by striking him in the head with a fire extinguisher.”

In the days after the protest, numerous viral tweets pointed to a photograph of Eric Munchel with zip-ties. The photo was used continually to suggest that he took those zip-ties into the Capitol because of a premeditated plot to detain lawmakers and hold them hostage. Politico described Munchel as “the man who allegedly entered the Senate chamber during the Capitol riot while carrying a taser and zip-tie handcuffs.”

The Washington Post used the images to refer to “chatters in far-right forums explicitly discussing how to storm the building, handcuff lawmakers with zip ties.” That the zip-tie photo of Munchel made the Capitol riot far more than a mere riot carried out by a band of disorganized misfits, but rather a nefarious and well-coordinated plot to kidnap members of Congress, became almost as widespread as the fire extinguisher story. Yet again, it was The New York Times that led the way in consecrating maximalist claims. “FBI Arrests Man Who Carried Zip Ties Into Capitol,” blared the paper’s headline on January 10, featuring the now-iconic photo of Munchel at the top.

But on January 21, the “zip-tie man’s” own prosecutors admitted none of that was true. He did not take zip-ties with him from home or carry them into the Capitol. Instead, he found them on a table, and took them to prevent their use by the police:


Really good stuff from Glenn as always please read the article here -https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims
 
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Obviously the media jumps to conclusions again but if this is true...

"At one point, MUNCHEL spots plastic handcuffs on a table inside a hallway in the Capitol. MUNCHEL exclaims, 'zipties. I need to get me some of them motherf---ers," and grabs several white plastic handcuffs from on top of a cabinet," the filing says, adding: "As MUNCHEL and [his mother, Lisa Eisenhart,] are attempting to leave, Eisenhart says words to the effect of, 'Don't carry the zip ties, just get 'em out of their hand.'"

...that's still not a good look. Dude had to have his mom there telling him right from wrong.
 
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ManofOne

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The NYT and CNN can no longer be seen as objective. They’re designing content for one side. I seriously hope the next 4 years we’ll see a rebalancing but at this point lazy journalism /partisan journalism continues to dominate
 
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joe_zazen

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capital protesthystery is just fodder for expansion of power and political gain.

I seriously hope the next 4 years we’ll see a rebalancing but at this point lazy journalism /partisan journalism continues to dominate

what do you think would bring about a rebalancing? I come up empty.
 
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joe_zazen

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Atleast somepoint this craziness has to implode on itself right? One can be hopeful.

I used to love reading the NYT but I cancelled my subscription.

probably, just like with the puritan (40 years), Russian (70years), & Chinese (25? years) revolutions.

might not like what comes after, however. russia and china were both darwinian hellholes immediately after theirs fell.
 

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
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Fuck. I ate the extinguisher story completely and I should have known better.

Around Christmas or so, I decided to give the whole situation a break, so I stopped paying attention, and now I feel lied to.

Fuck the MSM.
 

Imotekh

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It no longer matters, because simply by doubting the story or questioning its veracity after it has entered the cycle, you are proven to be on the wrong side and anything you say is discredited.
 

HeresJohnny

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The Leftist media always seems to have never more than a passing dalliance with the truth. The same ones who swore Biden was up by 15 or more points in the polls. The same ones who perpetuated the "fine people" hoax. The same ones who pushed the false narrative about Russia. I'm just going to assume anyone reporting the news is a liar from now, since someone telling the truth seems to be the exception and not the rule.
 
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Singular7

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Really good stuff from Glenn as always please read the article here -https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims

Liberalism, in its current definition, is just a blame system where anything that isn't an oligarch run state-solution is the problem.

Truly gross, considering the idea of liberalism (free speech, distrust of state power, right to self defense) is what created the only genuinely great society for the majority in 5000 years of recorded history.
 
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LMJ

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Fuck. I ate the extinguisher story completely and I should have known better.

Around Christmas or so, I decided to give the whole situation a break, so I stopped paying attention, and now I feel lied to.

Fuck the MSM.

Hey man we've all been deceived before, the 5th estate is supposed to focus and report objective news sans bias...they don't.

At least you're big enough to admit you were wrong, better than most idealists here.
 

Redlight

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Sicknick's death was originally attributed to being beaten with a fire extinguisher, which, it turns out is not true. That original report was based on info from two law enforcement sources, so the initial report was reasonable. When it became clear that it wasn't accurate those media outlets wrote articles with the new info.

Was it a deliberate campaign by liberal media outlets? Well, no, Fox news reported that Sicknick was killed with a fire extinguisher. Does that make them spreaders of liberal propaganda? They are as responsible for reporting this as anyone.

When the truth became known Tucker Carlson was quick to attack the 'liberal media', showing clips from MSNBC and CNN talking about Sicknick being killed with a fire extinguisher. It was what 'they' had told 'us', no doubt as part of some liberal MSM conspiracy.

Strangely, he didn't show any clips from Fox News. That's weird isn't it? They reported it in the exact same way and you'd think that he'd have easy access to Fox News material. Maybe he forgot that the evil, lie-spreading 'they' he described actually includes his very own network?

Don't be like Tucker 'the cherry picker' Carlson.

There was no bias present in reporting that story widely, so the paranoia in this thread is misplaced. It was believed to be true at the time and news outlets of all persuasions reported it as such. That's how news works.
 

HeresJohnny

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Sicknick's death was originally attributed to being beaten with a fire extinguisher, which, it turns out is not true. That original report was based on info from two law enforcement sources, so the initial report was reasonable. When it became clear that it wasn't accurate those media outlets wrote articles with the new info.

Was it a deliberate campaign by liberal media outlets? Well, no, Fox news reported that Sicknick was killed with a fire extinguisher. Does that make them spreaders of liberal propaganda? They are as responsible for reporting this as anyone.

When the truth became known Tucker Carlson was quick to attack the 'liberal media', showing clips from MSNBC and CNN talking about Sicknick being killed with a fire extinguisher. It was what 'they' had told 'us', no doubt as part of some liberal MSM conspiracy.

Strangely, he didn't show any clips from Fox News. That's weird isn't it? They reported it in the exact same way and you'd think that he'd have easy access to Fox News material. Maybe he forgot that the evil, lie-spreading 'they' he described actually includes his very own network?

Don't be like Tucker 'the cherry picker' Carlson.

There was no bias present in reporting that story widely, so the paranoia in this thread is misplaced. It was believed to be true at the time and news outlets of all persuasions reported it as such. That's how news works.
We are in the midst of a bad cold snap here. Two days ago, the weather people said the storm would deliver 4-8 inches of snow, with perhaps 1 inch of ice mixed in. When the storm got here, it was actually 2-3 inches of ice and very little snow, making it much more treacherous. I joked with someone that there are perhaps only a handful of jobs in the world where one can be wrong half the time and still remain employed, the weather forecaster being one of them. Imagine if the UPS man delivered every other package to the wrong address or not at all. Imagine if your oncologist told you surgery was necessary to remove a malignant growth and in the end it's just a clogged hair follicle. Imagine your HVAC mechanic installing a gas furnace in your home when you don't have natural gas to the house. These are all unacceptable, and so is a news reporter running with a story (for weeks no less) based on incorrect information from anonymous sources that turn out to be wrong. Too often these days, the news is like the weather man, which is unacceptable. Whether it's bias or incompetence for not following through on the sourcing to ensure the story was correct, the onus is on the media to do its fucking job and not mislead the public. "Sorry, I fucked up" is NOT responsible journalism, and it should be the extremely rare exception rather than the increasingly occurring norm. Especially since many times these "retractions" are quietly ushered in on a backpage when the original story was blasted on the front page.
 
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Zefah

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Obviously the media jumps to conclusions again but if this is true...



...that's still not a good look. Dude had to have his mom there telling him right from wrong.

Breaking into the Capitol at all is already well beyond "not a good look." The only reason the guy got so much attention was because he painted a picture of planned insurrection, but it just wasn't true.

Fuck. I ate the extinguisher story completely and I should have known better.

Around Christmas or so, I decided to give the whole situation a break, so I stopped paying attention, and now I feel lied to.

Fuck the MSM.

Just approach every MSM story as if they are writing it based off stuff they found on Twitter, because they probably are, especially if the story is within 24 hours of an incident.
 
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Cob32

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Fuck. I ate the extinguisher story completely and I should have known better.

Around Christmas or so, I decided to give the whole situation a break, so I stopped paying attention, and now I feel lied to.

Fuck the MSM.
Same here.
 

regawdless

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Fuck. I ate the extinguisher story completely and I should have known better.

Around Christmas or so, I decided to give the whole situation a break, so I stopped paying attention, and now I feel lied to.

Fuck the MSM.

It's so tough to keep up. It happens and you basically can't escape it. It's ok as long as one tries to listen to both sides and keeps an open mind. I've had many instances were some context was missing. Which both sides love to do. The most truth is in what they don't tell us, unfortunately.
 
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ManofOne

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There was no bias present in reporting that story widely, so the paranoia in this thread is misplaced. It was believed to be true at the time and news outlets of all persuasions reported it as such. That's how news works.

Clearly the evidence says otherwise. Wait who was the first to report that a officer died and then didn't? NYT right.

And then when he did die, they wildly circulated the story about pro-trump supporters beating him......Fox news reported it but it wasn't a continuous haul of misinformation.
 
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TheContact

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It's almost like the fake news media is the enemy of the people. And liberals keep falling for fake news over and over again.

its almost like the people who supported trump look at the riot with disdain, but also comfort in knowing it wasn’t as bad as the media made it out to be. Even though it was worse when you watch the videos. It must be really hard to watch that riot especially as a trump supporter, so any kind of narrative that the media was up playing the riot; or that trump supporters weren’t responsible for sicknick’s death must be a nice thing to hear even if it isn’t reality
 
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HeresJohnny

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its almost like the people who supported trump look at the riot with disdain, but also comfort in knowing it wasn’t as bad as the media made it out to be. Even though it was worse when you watch the videos. It must be really hard to watch that riot especially as a trump supporter, so any kind of narrative that the media was up playing the riot; or that trump supporters weren’t responsible for sicknick’s death must be a nice thing to hear even if it isn’t reality
Or people just don’t like being lied to. You said it yourself, you can’t stand liars. There’s a reason people hate the media.
 

TheContact

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Or people just don’t like being lied to. You said it yourself, you can’t stand liars. There’s a reason people hate the media.

there's a difference between incompetent reporting and outright lying to people. and i'm not giving the media a pass on the former or the latter as they've done that. here, whether the officer died because a rioter hit him with a fire extinguisher or if he died from other injuries incurred in the riot, at the end of the day, trump supporters killed him. it doesn't change anything.
 

oagboghi2

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Or people just don’t like being lied to. You said it yourself, you can’t stand liars. There’s a reason people hate the media.
Apparently he can withstand liars, as long as he is the one spreading the lie.

there's a difference between incompetent reporting and outright lying to people. and i'm not giving the media a pass on the former or the latter as they've done that. here, whether the officer died because a rioter hit him with a fire extinguisher or if he died from other injuries incurred in the riot, at the end of the day, trump supporters killed him. it doesn't change anything.
Yes you are.

Maybe you should try to stop lying to yourself before lecturing others
 

HeresJohnny

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there's a difference between incompetent reporting and outright lying to people. and i'm not giving the media a pass on the former or the latter as they've done that. here, whether the officer died because a rioter hit him with a fire extinguisher or if he died from other injuries incurred in the riot, at the end of the day, trump supporters killed him. it doesn't change anything.
But in this case they did lie. And they perpetuated the lie. And then quietly recanted the lie by never taking full ownership of it. Further, the rest of the media ignored the recanted story despite being so outraged about it earlier. I'm not saying that the officer didn't die as a result of a riot, what I'm saying is people are sick of being lied to by a duplicitous media. And why do we still not know how exactly Sicknick died? Why isn't the media laser focused on putting that up to the light seeing as they played a role in putting out a false narrative about how he did die? You know why. You know something I can guarantee you won't see? A headline like this:

"We told you Officer Sicknick died as a result of being bludgeoned at the Capitol riot. That was incorrect. Here's how he really died."

You're right in the sense that it doesn't bring Sicknick back to life and in that sense doesn't change anything. But the truth is important, and the Left and media both seem to only be interested in that when it suits them. It's a huge, huge problem. Look at it this way. If we go to war and the media reports based on unverified conjecture that a thousand of our military are killed by friendly fire to make the generals look like fools and spark anti-war protests at home and they let that narrative settle in before the truth comes out that the troops were actually killed fighting opposing forces. Does that change anything? Of course it does. Context matters. The truth matters. The media are supposed to report facts, not shit they "think" are facts.
 
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Teletraan1

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It was the NY Times. They are fucking liars. They made up details about two of the biggest things to come out of the riots but the "I hate liars" crew will give them a pass. Every other outlet ran with the fire extinguisher narrative based on the NY Times reporting, it even appeared in the impeachment articles. They will probably win pulitzer prizes for their reporting on this issue. So far the death toll for these riots amount to an unarmed woman getting shot by police. She should have fallen asleep in a Wendy's drive thru while intoxicated, she would have gotten more sympathy/outrage about being shot while unarmed. A person who was trampled. A couple of people who died of cardiac arrest/strokes. And a police officer that died of yet unknown causes but there is video evidence of him getting roughed up by Trump supporters. The police officer's death was tragic but that has to be one of the weakest/disorganized insurrections I have ever seen in my life. To call it anything more than a protest that turned violent is laughable. It is pure political theater especially after the summer of love. Hundreds of police officers were permanently blinded while being painted as bastards but the I hate liars crew doesn't give a fuck about them.
 

DeafTourette

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Clearly the evidence says otherwise. Wait who was the first to report that a officer died and then didn't? NYT right.

And then when he did die, they wildly circulated the story about pro-trump supporters beating him......Fox news reported it but it wasn't a continuous haul of misinformation.

So... They WEREN'T beating him? Looked like it in the videos.
 
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The exact same fucking assholes who are defending this and going "well actually..." are the same fucking people who see a single blm protester breaking windows and go "look at how violent this movement is!" It's horseshit. You guys are fucked in the head.
 
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ManofOne

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The exact same fucking assholes who are defending this and going "well actually..." are the same fucking people who see a single blm protester breaking windows and go "look at how violent this movement is!" It's horseshit. You guys are fucked in the head.

Dude lay off the Reee Medicine. Nobody is saying that. Pretty much everyone here has condemned the violence at Capitol. The issue here is the reporting standards. If you can't see that maybe you should look in the mirror to see who is actually "fucked in the head."
 

HeresJohnny

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Dude lay off the Reee Medicine. Nobody is saying that. Pretty much everyone here has condemned the violence at Capitol. The issue here is the reporting standards. If you can't see that maybe you should look in the mirror to see who is actually "fucked in the head."
Maybe it's Bullshit has taken on its final form: I Can't Believe it's Not Horseshit
 

Zefah

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The exact same fucking assholes who are defending this and going "well actually..." are the same fucking people who see a single blm protester breaking windows and go "look at how violent this movement is!" It's horseshit. You guys are fucked in the head.

Whether or not this guy died from fire extinguisher blows to the head does not change that the riot happened, that it was dangerous, and that it was ridiculous. Still, the truth matters.
 
Nov 22, 2019
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But in this case they did lie. And they perpetuated the lie. And then quietly recanted the lie by never taking full ownership of it. Further, the rest of the media ignored the recanted story despite being so outraged about it earlier. I'm not saying that the officer didn't die as a result of a riot, what I'm saying is people are sick of being lied to by a duplicitous media. And why do we still not know how exactly Sicknick died? Why isn't the media laser focused on putting that up to the light seeing as they played a role in putting out a false narrative about how he did die? You know why. You know something I can guarantee you won't see? A headline like this:

"We told you Officer Sicknick died as a result of being bludgeoned at the Capitol riot. That was incorrect. Here's how he really died."

You're right in the sense that it doesn't bring Sicknick back to life and in that sense doesn't change anything. But the truth is important, and the Left and media both seem to only be interested in that when it suits them. It's a huge, huge problem. Look at it this way. If we go to war and the media reports based on unverified conjecture that a thousand of our military are killed by friendly fire to make the generals look like fools and spark anti-war protests at home and they let that narrative settle in before the truth comes out that the troops were actually killed fighting opposing forces. Does that change anything? Of course it does. Context matters. The truth matters. The media are supposed to report facts, not shit they "think" are facts.
Maybe you should spend this much energy on introspection and taking accountability for the insane shit the right takes part in every single day.

At least one good thing came from the capitol riot, all talks of civil war pretty much void. We have blm protesters taking beatings daily for months. Then we have the pussy right who throws in the towel after some pepper spray and already had tickets booked to go home and enjoy they chicken tendies. To celebrate the "revolution" of course. That revolution being beating a cop to death and somehow spinning it so its the lefts fault. "It wasn't me officer, it was the guy holding the camera." You wanna take responsibility, how many people died from covid while Trump denied its existence again? Those deaths are all on the right and republican hands.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Maybe you should spend this much energy on introspection and taking accountability for the insane shit the right takes part in every single day.

At least one good thing came from the capitol riot, all talks of civil war pretty much void. We have blm protesters taking beatings daily for months. Then we have the pussy right who throws in the towel after some pepper spray and already had tickets booked to go home and enjoy they chicken tendies. To celebrate the "revolution" of course. That revolution being beating a cop to death and somehow spinning it so its the lefts fault. "It wasn't me officer, it was the guy holding the camera." You wanna take responsibility, how many people died from covid while Trump denied its existence again? Those deaths are all on the right and republican hands.
 

Zefah

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Maybe you should spend this much energy on introspection and taking accountability for the insane shit the right takes part in every single day.

At least one good thing came from the capitol riot, all talks of civil war pretty much void. We have blm protesters taking beatings daily for months. Then we have the pussy right who throws in the towel after some pepper spray and already had tickets booked to go home and enjoy they chicken tendies. To celebrate the "revolution" of course. That revolution being beating a cop to death and somehow spinning it so its the lefts fault. "It wasn't me officer, it was the guy holding the camera." You wanna take responsibility, how many people died from covid while Trump denied its existence again? Those deaths are all on the right and republican hands.

You want people to "take responsibility" for the actions of people they don't even know?

Yeah, maybe it is the medicine.
 

Zefah

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The exact same fucking assholes who are defending this and going "well actually..." are the same fucking people who see a single blm protester breaking windows and go "look at how violent this movement is!" It's horseshit. You guys are fucked in the head.

Who? Point to someone specific instead of just rambling about made up fantasies that exist only in your mind.
 

AgentP

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It's almost like the fake news media is the enemy of the people. And liberals keep falling for fake news over and over again.
The irony is thick. The right thrives on conspiracy theories and Facebook posts. They have hold no value for real reporting, just echo chamber "tell me what I already believe" BS.

The defense that the guy picked the zip ties up might be true, but carrying them to keep them from the police is ridiculous. He could have put them in a garbage or hid them in a drawer, but nope, he carried them around with the intent of using them.
 

ManofOne

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The irony is thick. The right thrives on conspiracy theories and Facebook posts. They have hold no value for real reporting, just echo chamber "tell me what I already believe" BS.

The defense that the guy picked the zip ties up might be true, but carrying them to keep them from the police is ridiculous. He could have put them in a garbage or hid them in a drawer, but nope, he carried them around with the intent of using them.

How do you measure "intent of use," when there is audio of his mom saying the exact opposite. Seems you're creating your own narrative to justify your position like the Media in this case.
 
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Redlight

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Clearly the evidence says otherwise. Wait who was the first to report that a officer died and then didn't? NYT right.

And then when he did die, they wildly circulated the story about pro-trump supporters beating him......Fox news reported it but it wasn't a continuous haul of misinformation.
If you want to declare it as 'misinformation' then Fox is equally as guilty as any other news org that reported the original story. Your defence of a news source that panders to your world view is telling.

It indicates that you're more interested in promoting paranoia than the facts of the story.
 

ManofOne

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If you want to declare it as 'misinformation' then Fox is equally as guilty as any other news org that reported the original story. Your defence of a news source that panders to your world view is telling.

It indicates that you're more interested in promoting paranoia than the facts of the story.

??? Ummm, where did I say Fox News is the most omnipotent news source. What's telling is how much of a bubble you live if that your defense for a "News" organization that is supposedly one of the few remaining bastions of true journalism.

Everyone knows where Fox News lies, can you say the same of NYT?. You're the one rushing into a thread about NYT and crying buh buh buh fox news.!!!
 
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