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The False and Exaggerated Claims Still Being Spread About the Capitol Riot - Glenn Greenwald

Mahadev

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In Sicknick's case, it's still not known publicly what caused him to collapse the night of the insurrection. Findings from a medical examiner's review have not yet been released and authorities have not made any announcements about that ongoing process.

According to one law enforcement official, medical examiners did not find signs that the officer sustained any blunt force trauma, so investigators believe that early reports that he was fatally struck by a fire extinguisher are not true.


Holy fucking shit, these lying motherfuckers, I had no idea the story was fake.
 

Redlight

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??? Ummm, where did I say Fox News is the most omnipotent news source. What's telling is how much of a bubble you live if that your defense for a "News" organization that is supposedly one of the few remaining bastions of true journalism.

Everyone knows where Fox News lies, can you say the same of NYT?. You're the one rushing into a thread about NYT and crying buh buh buh fox news.!!!
My point is clear if you bother to think. Your proclaiming some kind of left-wing conspiracy by the 'main stream media' when the fire-extinguisher story was widely reported by news outlets from both ends of the political spectrum.

The NYT made the original report based on law-enforcement sources. When it became clear that the story was wrong they corrected their report. That's how journalism works. It isn't evidence of a deliberate campaign of left-wing misinformation.

Are you claiming the NYT lied in that first report? That would be both fascinating and damning if true, however you're going to need some evidence if that's your claim.

I'm pretty sure you don't have any.
 

Redlight

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The fact that the autopsy wasn't released says it all, just like the George Floyd initial autopsy said it all before the family decided to get their own biased one because the truth was not what they wanted to hear.
It's not unusual for autopsies to be withheld when the investigation is ongoing. Stop trying to thread spooky, 'deep state' narratives into normal practices.

As for George Floyd, do you think he just spontaneously died to spite you? It's important to note that both Floyd autopsies mark the cause of death as 'Homicide'.

Pretty hard to spin your way out of that.
 

Woo-Fu

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Nobody Important is going to be heart broken if he finds out that half the mob didn't bring zip ties with them as part of their plan to kidnap all of Congress. I mean he's use that zip tie lie more times than I've used most zippers.
 
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BouncyFrag

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It’s picture time!
 

Boss Mog

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It's not unusual for autopsies to be withheld when the investigation is ongoing. Stop trying to thread spooky, 'deep state' narratives into normal practices.

As for George Floyd, do you think he just spontaneously died to spite you? It's important to note that both Floyd autopsies mark the cause of death as 'Homicide'.

Pretty hard to spin your way out of that.
Pretty big difference in dying from a heart attack with high levels of fentanyl in your system exasperated by hypertension and severe heart disease and dying from mechanical asphyxia. Yeah the lack of oxygen contributed to triggering it but George Floyd was in very bad health and using drugs heavily, those were bigger factors in his death. I'm not exonerating the cop, that method shouldn't be used because you don't know the underlying health conditions of the person you're using it on and especially for that long, but an adult in good health probably wouldn't have died from it. The narrative from the media is the George Floyd was a saint and that the cop deliberately murdered him just for being black. That obviously wasn't the case at all and the incident only happened after Floyd was put in the back of the cruiser and started going crazy. I've seen footage of suspects going crazy and managing to grab the officer's gun and killing them.
 

ManofOne

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Lol, here we go with both ends of the political spectrum. Since you want to be so pedestrian about it.

The original report was made by two UNVERIFIED sources, that initially claimed the officer has succumbed to his injuries. The leftist media pushed this narrative and then it was widely reported by other outlets. It was then corrected by Capitol police. (Infact I believe it was CNN who first started it)

As for your second point we’ve seen how NYT, WaPO and CNN etc supposedly the “fairest” new sources have reported incidents concerning the right. There is clear evidence of this. We post it all the time here. For example last week a NYT lead journalist post a false claim about the N word on club house.

You seem to think this is how journalism should work. Journalism should work by presenting the facts not by creating suppositions or leaning the story in a specific way without all the facts first. Glenn in his article clearly states this.

Your hand waving continues to a problem and you insinuation that this is some sort of conspiracy is dumb and pathetic.

You have also yet to answer my question despite me continuing to answer yours, everyone knows where Fox News political spectrum lies can you say the same about NYT ?

The NYT made the original report based on law-enforcement sources. When it became clear that the story was wrong they corrected their report. That's how journalism works. It isn't evidence of a deliberate campaign of left-wing misinformation.

Are you claiming the NYT lied in that first report? That would be both fascinating and damning if true, however you're going to need some evidence if that's your claim.

I'm pretty sure you don't have any.
 
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BadBurger

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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists that beat police officers to death? I don't understand the endgame here. Are you suggesting that the murderers weren't so bad or something? That because it wasn't captured on film that the insurrection was A-OK? What in God's name are you even defending any longer?

This is getting sick.
 

ManofOne

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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists that beat police officers to death? I don't understand the endgame here. Are you suggesting that the murderers weren't so bad or something? That because it wasn't captured on film that the insurrection was A-OK? What in God's name are you even defending any longer?

This is getting sick.

Nobody is defending any insurrectionists....we've stated this........The issue here is false reporting standards. Is your alt account "Maybe its Medicine" ?
 

regawdless

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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists that beat police officers to death? I don't understand the endgame here. Are you suggesting that the murderers weren't so bad or something? That because it wasn't captured on film that the insurrection was A-OK? What in God's name are you even defending any longer?

This is getting sick.

I guess trying to get the facts straight and not blindly believing manipulated media narrative is bad now.

Funny world you live in.
 

Redlight

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Pretty big difference in dying from a heart attack with high levels of fentanyl in your system exasperated by hypertension and severe heart disease and dying from mechanical asphyxia. Yeah the lack of oxygen contributed to triggering it but George Floyd was in very bad health and using drugs heavily, those were bigger factors in his death. I'm not exonerating the cop, that method shouldn't be used because you don't know the underlying health conditions of the person you're using it on and especially for that long, but an adult in good health probably wouldn't have died from it. The narrative from the media is the George Floyd was a saint and that the cop deliberately murdered him just for being black. That obviously wasn't the case at all and the incident only happened after Floyd was put in the back of the cruiser and started going crazy. I've seen footage of suspects going crazy and managing to grab the officer's gun and killing them.
Both autopsies.

Homocide.
 

Redlight

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The leftist media pushed this narrative
you insinuation that this is some sort of conspiracy is dumb and pathetic.
Do you read your own posts? You're describing a conspiracy by the 'leftist media'. I agree, the conspiracy theory you're floating is dumb and pathetic.

I described the reporting as from 'both ends of the political spectrum' that includes the left, in case you didn't realise that.

'Unverified sources' unverified by who? You?

As I said, if you're claiming that the NYT lied about those sources, then provide evidence. If you can't, do us all a favour and stop pulling assumptions about their intentions from your ass.
 

HeresJohnny

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Both autopsies.

Homocide.
The media hid the footage of Floyd complaining about not being able to breathe before the cops ever touched him. Left, Right, Whatever... that should be criminal. They let the country burn before quietly releasing the footage for full context, just as they did with Michael "Hands up Don't Shoot" Brown, Brionna Taylor, and Jake "The Hitman" Blake. You're defending the indefensible. What they did was morally bankrupt and possible criminal. Let's not forget the media's behavior with the Covington kids. They lied to all of us about WMD's in Iraq and got the public behind a war we should've never been in, got thousands of our boys maimed and killed. I mean, I could tell you story after story after story where they've done this kind of fucking shit. They're the most heinous motherfuckers thirsty for chaos and bloodshed for ratings and ideology. They're worse than lawyers, and politicians, and AC mechanics.
 
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ManofOne

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Do you read your own posts? You're describing a conspiracy by the 'leftist media'. I agree, the conspiracy theory you're floating is dumb and pathetic.

I described the reporting as from 'both ends of the political spectrum' that includes the left, in case you didn't realise that.

'Unverified sources' unverified by who? You?

As I said, if you're claiming that the NYT lied about those sources, then provide evidence. If you can't, do us all a favour and stop pulling assumptions about their intentions from your ass.

Wow. This is seriously one of the most bad faith arguments provided. Did you read the article, Glenn provided evidence. Also there is a thread about this if you bothered to look it up. CNN quoted two anonymous sources on Jan 6th or 7th I believe when the attacked happened. Only to be corrected by capitol police.

Glenn then showed you evidence of how the reporting was distorted therein after his death.

You gotta be a troll man.
 
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oagboghi2

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The exact same fucking assholes who are defending this and going "well actually..." are the same fucking people who see a single blm protester murdering citizens and go "look at how violent this movement is!" It's horseshit. You guys are fucked in the head.
Fixed.

Wow. This is seriously one of the most bad faith arguments provided. Did you read the article, Glenn provided evidence. Also there is a thread about this if you bothered to look it up. CNN quoted two anonymous sources on Jan 6th or 7th I believe when the attacked happened. Only to be corrected by capitol police.

Glenn then showed you evidence of how the reporting was distorted therein after his death.

You gotta be a troll man.
And here is where he disappears
 
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Mahadev

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Pretty big difference in dying from a heart attack with high levels of fentanyl in your system exasperated by hypertension and severe heart disease and dying from mechanical asphyxia. Yeah the lack of oxygen contributed to triggering it but George Floyd was in very bad health and using drugs heavily, those were bigger factors in his death. I'm not exonerating the cop, that method shouldn't be used because you don't know the underlying health conditions of the person you're using it on and especially for that long, but an adult in good health probably wouldn't have died from it. The narrative from the media is the George Floyd was a saint and that the cop deliberately murdered him just for being black. That obviously wasn't the case at all and the incident only happened after Floyd was put in the back of the cruiser and started going crazy. I've seen footage of suspects going crazy and managing to grab the officer's gun and killing them.


It should be noted that he repeatedly resisted arrest so any attempt to detain him would have probably resulted in death too.
 
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MrA

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Both autopsies.

Homocide.
you do realize that homicide doesn't mean murder, right? it just means another person was involved in his death, someone shooting at the police and the police shooting them back is homicide,
if someone runs in front of a bus, it's homicide even if the driver isn't at fault.
someone dying of a heart attack while in a struggle another person even if they initiated it, is homicide,

as for the capitol, the media got what they wanted, a further misinformed public, but misinformed the way they want
 
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Redlight

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you do realize that homicide doesn't mean murder, right? it just means another person was involved in his death, someone shooting at the police and the police shooting them back is homicide,
if someone runs in front of a bus, it's homicide even if the driver isn't at fault.
someone dying of a heart attack while in a struggle another person even if they initiated it, is homicide,

as for the capitol, the media got what they wanted, a further misinformed public, but misinformed the way they want
The term 'homocide' indicates that one person was killed by another.

It does not indicate that the victim died from a drug overdose or from heart disease, it does indicate that the death was the direct result of the actions of another party.

Floyd was killed by a policeman. Neither autopsy disputes this.
 

Redlight

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Wow. This is seriously one of the most bad faith arguments provided. Did you read the article, Glenn provided evidence. Also there is a thread about this if you bothered to look it up. CNN quoted two anonymous sources on Jan 6th or 7th I believe when the attacked happened. Only to be corrected by capitol police.

Glenn then showed you evidence of how the reporting was distorted therein after his death.

You gotta be a troll man.
I've read the Greenwald article, he offers zero evidence that the NYT reporter lied. Zero. If I missed it, feel free to quote his 'evidence'. I won't hold my breath.

The claim that a leftist media conducted a deliberate campaign of misinformation relies on the NYT having invented the story from fake sources. If they didn't make up the info, but were given incorrect information by two law-enforcement officials, then you have no grounds for your claims.

If they did lie, that would be YUGE news. I know you want to believe it, but you have no evidence for it. You simply can't back up your own claims. Stop trying to deflect by calling me names or sending me to other threads or articles, it seems a bit desperate.

If you believe that the NYT made up the story and want to convince others, then you have to prove it. The burden is yours.

In the end Greenwald's article is a long complaint that the 'leftist media' didn't make a big enough fuss about correcting the story, which is something else entirely. Remember, at this point, it's still under investigation, so the press still do not know for sure how he died.

Interestingly, Greenwald acknowledges that CNN were first to question the fire-extinguisher story on Feb 2. Didn't CNN get the memo about the evil leftist cabal that they're involved in?

The Revolver article, that was the basis for Tucker Carlson's splendidly hypocritical vomit, wasn't published until a full week later and was based on reporting by CNN.

How does that fit with your stupid theory?
 
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ManofOne

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R Redlight the story is made up. They corrected themselves after being called out on it, even then the correct. Shrug 🤷‍♀️. Proved it too with other examples didn’t make huge news when they lied about other things.

A lie isn’t a lie until you caught then (nice moral compass). Good luck with the bubble dude.
 
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joe_zazen

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I've read the Greenwald article, he offers zero evidence that the NYT reporter lied. Zero. If I missed it, feel free to quote his 'evidence'. I won't hold my breath.

The claim that a leftist media conducted a deliberate campaign of misinformation relies on the NYT having invented the story from fake sources. If they didn't make up the info, but were given incorrect information by two law-enforcement officials, then you have no grounds for your claims.

If they did lie, that would be YUGE news. I know you want to believe it, but you have no evidence for it. You simply can't back up your own claims. Stop trying to deflect by calling me names or sending me to other threads or articles, it seems a bit desperate.

If you believe that the NYT made up the story and want to convince others, then you have to prove it. The burden is yours.

In the end Greenwald's article is a long complaint that the 'leftist media' didn't make a big enough fuss about correcting the story, which is something else entirely. Remember, at this point, it's still under investigation, so the press still do not know for sure how he died.

Interestingly, Greenwald acknowledges that CNN were first to question the fire-extinguisher story on Feb 2. Didn't CNN get the memo about the evil leftist cabal that they're involved in?

The Revolver article, that was the basis for Tucker Carlson's splendidly hypocritical vomit, wasn't published until a full week later and was based on reporting by CNN.

How does that fit with your stupid theory?

if you want to understand cable news, there are some illicitly recorded tapes around of CNN morning strategy comference calls.

here is little example from a NYT story, last week, and about how media creates a narrative without actually lying.

In one post, [Siskind] aligned himself with Charles Murray, who proposed a link between race and I.Q. in "The Bell Curve." In another, he pointed out that Mr. Murray believes Black people "are genetically less intelligent than white people."
This juxtaposition leaves readers with the impression that Siskind agrees with Murray on this point, but in fact, Siskind was merely agreeing with Murray that there ought to be some sort of universal basic income guarantee. It's extremely misleading to suggest that Siskind is aligned with Murray on the subject of race and IQ., which he emphatically is not.
https://reason.com/2021/02/15/what-...late-star-codex-says-about-media-gatekeeping/

There is no chance that linkage is a mistake, none. A professional experienced writer, with access to top flight editors, constructed that sentence to leave a false impression in the readers mind. That is how the game is played.
 
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oagboghi2

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I've read the Greenwald article, he offers zero evidence that the NYT reporter lied. Zero. If I missed it, feel free to quote his 'evidence'. I won't hold my breath.

The claim that a leftist media conducted a deliberate campaign of misinformation relies on the NYT having invented the story from fake sources. If they didn't make up the info, but were given incorrect information by two law-enforcement officials, then you have no grounds for your claims.

If they did lie, that would be YUGE news. I know you want to believe it, but you have no evidence for it. You simply can't back up your own claims. Stop trying to deflect by calling me names or sending me to other threads or articles, it seems a bit desperate.

If you believe that the NYT made up the story and want to convince others, then you have to prove it. The burden is yours.

In the end Greenwald's article is a long complaint that the 'leftist media' didn't make a big enough fuss about correcting the story, which is something else entirely. Remember, at this point, it's still under investigation, so the press still do not know for sure how he died.

Interestingly, Greenwald acknowledges that CNN were first to question the fire-extinguisher story on Feb 2. Didn't CNN get the memo about the evil leftist cabal that they're involved in?

The Revolver article, that was the basis for Tucker Carlson's splendidly hypocritical vomit, wasn't published until a full week later and was based on reporting by CNN.

How does that fit with your stupid theory?
And yet they ran the story as if they knew what happened, and they know that retraction never spreads as far as the original.

I'm shocked you wrote that whole story and you think CNN comes out looking good.
 
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QSD

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R Redlight , QSD QSD had a thread about an Adam Curtis doc, which talks about this kind of stuff (narrative creation, manipulating the modern masses for reasons). you might like it. there are six parts.

Thanks for the plug, Joe

To elaborate slightly:

-The Century of the Self is a 4-part documentary by Curtis about the influence of the Freud family on the development of mass marketing techniques based on people's subconscious desires (rather than say marketing by promoting/informing the audience about the characteristics of a product) so it's quite topical regarding the way the current culture of misinformation/manipulation came to be

-Can't Get You out of My Head (which is what the topic is about) is a 6 part documentary where Curtis takes a look at the roots of conspiratorial thinking, individualism and the way we conceive of power.

Both highly recommended and thought provoking if you are interested in current day politics.
 

joe_zazen

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Thanks for the plug, Joe

To elaborate slightly:

-The Century of the Self is a 4-part documentary by Curtis about the influence of the Freud family on the development of mass marketing techniques based on people's subconscious desires (rather than say marketing by promoting/informing the audience about the characteristics of a product) so it's quite topical regarding the way the current culture of misinformation/manipulation came to be

-Can't Get You out of My Head (which is what the topic is about) is a 6 part documentary where Curtis takes a look at the roots of conspiratorial thinking, individualism and the way we conceive of power.

Both highly recommended and thought provoking if you are interested in current day politics.

i think it goes a bit beyond mere marketing, and goes into mass mind control driven by the fear elites have about 'the masses' and democracy.

I liked how FDR had films made teaching regular people how to track media manipulation and had no desire to psyop voters.
 

QSD

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i think it goes a bit beyond mere marketing, and goes into mass mind control driven by the fear elites have about 'the masses' and democracy.
It certainly does, but those are spoilers LOL :messenger_winking:

I was listening to the "braver angels" podcast yesterday, which is a organization dedicated to fostering dialogue across the political divide. They were interviewing 2 people who had been at the capitol protest and the first woman explained that as she was leaving (and the violence was breaking out) she saw a guy with a pitchfork heading the other way. I was struck by the image of that as quite symbolic of the old fear of a mob with pitchforks (and torches, depending on the time of day) showing up outside your house one day...
I liked how FDR had films made teaching regular people how to track media manipulation and had no desire to psyop voters.
I didn't know that, that seems a commendable starting point.

They state we're currently in is just about as far as you can get from that though. Look at this thread, basically lamenting how every goddamn thing has to be exploited to the max for political currency these days. It's so endemic it seems nobody even knows how to stop this cycle of lies and embellishments. JUST. STOP. LYING. to your boss, your GF, your kids, your neighbours, your customers, your voters. It's the only way if you ask me.

Edit: I'll get off my soapbox again
 
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nemiroff

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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists that beat police officers to death? I don't understand the endgame here. Are you suggesting that the murderers weren't so bad or something? That because it wasn't captured on film that the insurrection was A-OK? What in God's name are you even defending any longer?

This is getting sick.

Say what you will about the trash called NYT, but their activist strategy is obviously very effective. This completely false story about the Capitol police officers (now of course inflated with the "s") being relentlessly beaten to death by millions of evil Trump stormtroopers is living rent free in their readers' heads even after having been debunked all over the internet AND retracted by the NYT.
 
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Sacred

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Do you read your own posts? You're describing a conspiracy by the 'leftist media'. I agree, the conspiracy theory you're floating is dumb and pathetic.

I described the reporting as from 'both ends of the political spectrum' that includes the left, in case you didn't realise that.

'Unverified sources' unverified by who? You?

As I said, if you're claiming that the NYT lied about those sources, then provide evidence. If you can't, do us all a favour and stop pulling assumptions about their intentions from your ass.

Why has this individual not been banned yet, all he does is attack other members and try to start an argument where one doesn't exist.
 
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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists
Where are the "insurrectionists?"

If anything it was a protest that got out of hand and turned into a mini-riot that has been completely blown out of proportion by the media and politicians for their own gain.

However, if we're judging what happened on the 6th in terms of how events in major cities were reported over the summer then we're simply looking at "peaceful protesters."

But if you insist on calling what happened on the 6th "insurrection" then perhaps we should start talking about some of the stuff that happened in places like Portland over the summer in terms of insurrection as well. Shouldn't holding whole blocks of the city for days (weeks?) be considered insurrection?

Also, everyone is fixated on Sicknick who very likely died of something unrelated (or at best tangentially related) to the 6th, but they seem to forget that the capitol police shot and killed a woman, a death which absolutely could have been avoided had the officers not been so trigger happy.
 
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prag16

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So why did the other thread (for the second time) get locked? Is Glenn Greenwald now considered "fringe/conspiracy", or were those threads just considered redundant with this one? If the former, may God have mercy on your souls, mods. If the latter, what happened to new news, new thread? The other threads are based on a new article.
 
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Is Glenn Greenwald now considered "fringe/conspiracy"
"fringe/conspiracy" threads shouldn't be locked either. If you don't want to take part in them, don't.


Although, I'll agree that if Glenn Greenwald of all people falls under the "fringe/conspiracy" label then we're in trouble.
 
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CGiRanger

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So why did the other thread (for the second time) get locked? Is Glenn Greenwald now considered "fringe/conspiracy", or were those threads just considered redundant with this one? If the former, may God have mercy on your souls, mods. If the latter, what happened to new news, new thread? The other threads are based on a new article.
I really must say I hate how the mods have pretty much axed transparency here. Locking threads without any given reason at all? I thought we were supposed to be better than the other place.
 
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Zefah

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Glenn has been writing for a while now about how the next big government power grab is going to be in the name of curbing domestic terrorism. "White supremacists" are going to be the boogeyman for restricting everyone's rights. He just put out another new article about how our media is ramping up the hysteria despite a nonexistent real threat.


You're seeing it all over Twitter, too. Lots of blue check marks talking about how white supremacy is more dangerous than ISIS, and shit like that. Talking points are spreading fast and narratives are being built. Once established, I think we should all expect real actions will be taken all in the name of security.
 

Bernd Lauert

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Why are you guys still trying to defend insurrectionists that beat police officers to death? I don't understand the endgame here. Are you suggesting that the murderers weren't so bad or something? That because it wasn't captured on film that the insurrection was A-OK? What in God's name are you even defending any longer?

This is getting sick.
There is so far no evidence that police officers have been beaten to death. Stop spreading conspiracy theories.
 
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