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The Final Hours of Titanfall Out Now - Titanfall Almost Never Happened

bigbaldwolf86

Banned
Aug 30, 2012
3,693
0
445
Perhaps there was a lack of faith in the project to fully fund it, or EA not wanting to throw money at a IP that they did not own, or knowing that John Riccitiello days were coming to a end, perhaps his influence faded to such a extent it became difficult to make any sort of deal with all that turmoil going on.

Could be a million reasons. Its kind of a mess, as these things usually are. With 3 companies all with their fingers in the pie, its bound to be complex. So its a lot of "he said", "she said", timeline of events all over the place etc.

At the end of the day, thank god the game got made, and the boys and girls at Respawn got paid to do their jobs and will continue to get paid. One has to remember the hell they went through with Activision, to once again face problems, layoffs and stress makes one glad not to be working in that industry.

I agree about the complexity of all this and obviously we're only seeing pieces of what happened. I am glad it was made although I won't get to play it being a PS4 owner. I hate seeing projects being canceled and the lay offs that can follow. Let's hope they can get proper time and funding for Titanfall 2 to make it bigger and better than the first.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Jan 13, 2008
38,638
0
0
Netherlands
Props to MS for stepping in, because it worked out beneficial to all parties. Also huge risk to keep funding a new IP that had development problems and could have maybe closed the studio.

Only party I'm angry at is EA partners, they have squandered everything they have touched. Somebody had to say it.
 
Jun 27, 2010
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That's actually pretty interesting. Sounds like a Sony being Sony and not actually being aware of anything.

Which pretty much described them during a large amount of last gen.

Sony had probably already put their eggs in the Destiny basket and felt another online only shooter wasn't in their interests.
 

Into

Member
Aug 20, 2012
8,459
1
0
It took BluePoint an extra month to get the game to work on the 360, do you really think they could have developed two concurrent ports for a game that was coming in hot? Again, read the story before you comment. Respawn really didn't figure out what to do with the game until 18 months before launch.

The game coming in hot is why it released fairly bare boned.

No that is exactly what i am saying, they already had enough issues and delays just getting the 360 version out and had to contract a external studio to do it. To get 2 further versions of the game out, especially the PS3 which has very different architecture, they would need more studios to work on the ports. I never suggested that Blue Point was going to develop 3 ports, i dont even know how you arrived at that conclusion.

The game being light on content is already explained in the story, if you read between the lines.

I read the story just fine, you read the posts more thoroughly next time.
 

Rayme

Member
Apr 21, 2007
1,010
0
0
Los Angeles, CA, USA
It's a 12 Chapter e-book, with lots of pictures and shit.

There are also videos in there of things I never thought we'd show. Our first week of being up-and-running on the Ratchet & Clank PS3 engine, SP prototype, MP prototype, GPMM video...

There's even a (very very very very early) Titan fight on the Ratchet & Clank engine.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Jan 13, 2008
38,638
0
0
Netherlands
There are also videos in there of things I never thought we'd show. Our first week of being up-and-running on the Ratchet & Clank PS3 engine, SP prototype, MP prototype, GPMM video...

There's even a (very very very very early) Titan fight on the Ratchet & Clank engine.
Holy shit, what.
 

justsomeguy

Member
Sep 14, 2013
5,418
0
375
UK
I agree about the complexity of all this and obviously we're only seeing pieces of what happened. I am glad it was made although I won't get to play it being a PS4 owner. I hate seeing projects being canceled and they lay off that can follow. Let's hope they can get proper time and funding for Titanfall 2 to make it bigger and better than the first.
tf2 will be a monster. Single player campaign huge budget and on ps4. Unless ms really do moneyhat the sequel (is there a precedent with ea for a massive sequel moneyhat?)
 

Into

Member
Aug 20, 2012
8,459
1
0
There are also videos in there of things I never thought we'd show. Our first week of being up-and-running on the Ratchet & Clank PS3 engine, SP prototype, MP prototype, GPMM video...

There's even a (very very very very early) Titan fight on the Ratchet & Clank engine.

That would be great to see one day

And congrats on a great game
 

justsomeguy

Member
Sep 14, 2013
5,418
0
375
UK
There are also videos in there of things I never thought we'd show. Our first week of being up-and-running on the Ratchet & Clank PS3 engine, SP prototype, MP prototype, GPMM video...

There's even a (very very very very early) Titan fight on the Ratchet & Clank engine.
Really must watch this over Easter. Rayme you guys must feel so proud when you look at what you've overcome to get a game out, one that everyone uses one word to describe: FUN
 

hodayathink

Member
Mar 13, 2013
6,450
1
490
Did they? I could have sworn some 1st party mentioned the 8GB thing was a surprise to them too.


edit: you also could say that the decision to leave out the PS3 was alot more of a head turner. Why not just make it X1,360 and PS3? And if MS and Sony weren't feeling it then why not just make it a last gen game altogether?

That the only trusted 1st party doesn't mean that they trusted all of them. I could easily see a situation where only the devs releasing supposed launch day/window games (i.e. Guerilla, Sucker Punch, the Knack Team/SCEJ) and other teams with major clout (i.e. Naughty Dog and/or Media Molecule) knew about the PS4 specs in January of 2012, other first party studios were briefed slightly after that, and third parties around summer/fall of that year.
 

antitrop

Member
Feb 19, 2011
46,348
4
550
35
Colorado Springs, CO
twitter.com
This thing is such a must-fucking-read for anyone interested in the inner workings of the game industry, even if you don't care about Call of Duty or Titanfall. I'm only starting Chapter 3 and my eyes are glued.

Keighley put in that work here, it shows.

Thanks for the thread, glad you guys are enjoying the app.

Geoff

 

RamzaIsCool

The Amiga Brotherhood
Jan 2, 2006
3,355
0
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Thanks for the thread, glad you guys are enjoying the app.

Geoff

Good job dude. You get alot of shit around here sometimes, but we love your work! :)

My guess is that Microsoft was funding the game's completion so they treated it like any other project they were funding and got exclusive rights for it.

But at that point it was pretty obvious that TitanFall would be a good investment. Why should a company like EA still need MS in that case? I understand why they made the deal with MS back in 2012, but at the end of 2013 alot of things were much clearer.
 

EmptySpace

Banned
Jul 10, 2013
5,177
0
0
Thanks for the thread, glad you guys are enjoying the app.

Geoff


you should make more videos on these than just ebooks. can't you do, say, visit a studio every 6 months to see a progress and bts? accumulate that to form a 30-45 minute vid which will gain millions of views?

kinda like what sony does with its first-party games. they have bonus vids on the disc.

still, you focus on the business and devs which i think would make a great viddoc instead of an ebook. but that's just me.
 
Sep 15, 2011
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Interesting about the Sony situation. They make it sound like they would even talk to them, but we know Sony was actively engaged with 3rd parties and independent studios before the PS4 was announced. From the way it sounds the game was losing water fast and needed funding to bail it out, something MS was willing to do.

Will be interesting to know if Titanfall made EA and MS money after all this, especially MS who may have just helped form a series that will be on PlayStation 4 next go around likely.
 

daman824

Member
Sep 5, 2013
3,128
0
0
Where do I go to get this on mobile?

Do I get an app that lets me buy the ebook type thing? Becuase it's not showing up on itunes mobile.
 

geoffmk

Geoff Keighley
Dec 29, 2004
425
0
0
you should make more videos on these than just ebooks. can't you do, say, visit a studio every 6 months to see a progress and bts? accumulate that to form a 30-45 minute vid which will gain millions of views?

kinda like what sony does with its first-party games. they have bonus vids on the disc.

still, you focus on the business and devs which i think would make a great viddoc instead of an ebook. but that's just me.

I've toyed around with the idea of more video content -- it's more disruptive to the development team when you bring in lights and cameras. And I find that developers are more comfortable just chatting casually versus a big "Tv shoot." But one day I'd love to do a Final Hours documentary.
 

Ninja Scooter

Member
Jun 7, 2004
123,710
7
0
This entire argument is stupid because "moneyhatting" isn't an actual fucking thing. It's an industry joke/meme. Getting all bent out of shape because what MS did either did or didn't fit the actual exact definition of a term that doesn't even really exist is stupid as hell.
 

antitrop

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Feb 19, 2011
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twitter.com
To give more insight behind Respawn's ideas on game development, there's a picture of a whiteboard that has 3 columns labeled "Good", "????", and "Bad".

Good
---
No difficulty select
Grindable
Non-bitchslap learning
Fear of death
Character progression
Visually readable gameplay state
Asymmetric balance
Hint button

????
---
Cover system
Travel time

Bad
---
Reading
Loading
Puzzles
Cheating

Ya, they knew exactly what kind of game they wanted to make.
 

Jomjom

Banned
Nov 26, 2009
11,734
2
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Los Angeles
Hi Geoff thanks for making this. I loved the Portal one.

Just wondering, since a lot of this controversy involves multiple parties, Respawn, MS, Sony, and West, as an individual, did you get sides of the story from all of those parties? Or is this pretty much Respawn's version of the events?
 

THRILLH0

Banned
Feb 15, 2010
4,133
0
0
Do not reply to any of my posts unless you are willing to read the whole thread/my posts. Thank you in advance.

Stop making posts unless you're willing to stop being wilfully ignorant about what people mean by "moneyhats". kthxbai
 

Into

Member
Aug 20, 2012
8,459
1
0
Stop making posts unless you're willing to stop being wilfully ignorant about what people mean by "moneyhats". kthxbai


What do they mean then? Instead of hit n run trolling, actually present a argument or stop wasting everyones time here.
 

Prine

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
13,817
0
0
Interesting about the Sony situation. They make it sound like they would even talk to them, but we know Sony was actively engaged with 3rd parties and independent studios before the PS4 was announced. From the way it sounds the game was losing water fast and needed funding to bail it out, something MS was willing to do.

Will be interesting to know if Titanfall made EA and MS money after all this, especially MS who may have just helped form a series that will be on PlayStation 4 next go around likely.

Not to single you out, but we don't. Look at all that has gone on, not just this but other big stories about the industry, if there's anything you take away from this thread and the others, it's this: we don't know anything.

What is heresay shouldn't be taken as actual events. Druckman, Marty, Evolution studios, Respawn etc so much speculation taken on and used as fact, we end up with debates about events that have never taken place.
 

DedValve

Banned
May 18, 2013
9,963
1
0
NYC
How are the final hours of mass effect 3 and portal 2? I was thinking of buying all 3 of these, titan fall for how they broke away from activision and their deals with ea/Microsoft. Portal 2 to get a rare look at the inner workings of valve and mass effect especially for the ending, extended cut and Javik fiasco.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Jan 13, 2008
38,638
0
0
Netherlands
To give more insight behind Respawn's ideas on game development, there's a picture of a whiteboard that has 3 columns labeled "Good", "????", and "Bad".

Good
---
No difficulty select
Grindable
Non-bitchslap learning
Fear of death
Character progression
Visually readable gameplay state
Asymmetric balance
Hint button

????
---
Cover system
Travel time

Bad
---
Reading
Loading
Puzzles
Cheating

Ya, they knew exactly what kind of game they wanted to make.
I want to put a ring on that company.
 

Prine

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
13,817
0
0
Sony had probably already put their eggs in the Destiny basket and felt another online only shooter wasn't in their interests.

Also believe MS azure being free was extremely convenient for Respawn, and sweeten the deal for EA. Respawn have stated this was a major selling point for them.
 

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
May 14, 2013
4,963
0
0
Scotland
This is really fascinating. MS go from zero to hero. Doesn't really paint Sony in a bad light though, they know their business best and things worked out great for them regardless.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Jun 9, 2004
24,937
0
0
This entire argument is stupid because "moneyhatting" isn't an actual fucking thing. It's an industry joke/meme. Getting all bent out of shape because what MS did either did or didn't fit the actual exact definition of a term that doesn't even really exist is stupid as hell.

What are you even trying to say? That developers don't literally make hats out of money?
Because cash for exclusives is real and happened here. That Respawn came to MS doesn't change that. It certainly makes MS look better, though.
 

KissVibes

Banned
Jun 10, 2012
0
0
0
It also makes a certain banned 'insiders' recent claims in the last NPD thread that Sony showed EA execs how much money they lost our by not bringing the game to PS4. And then had the EA begging forgiveness even more hilarious.

EA last week and showed them what they would have sold on the ps3 and ps4. The money EA took from MS doesn't even begin to cover it. The EA guys went over the math and agreed. EA is in full "We're so fucking sorry, Sony" mode currently.

What a fucking clown, Jesus Christ. Make sure to donate to his indiegogo campaign so he can bring you more bullshit.

I honestly hope we got these Final Hours reports on all games. Just to avoid bullshit like this again.
 

THRILLH0

Banned
Feb 15, 2010
4,133
0
0
What do they mean then? Instead of hit n run trolling, actually present a argument or stop wasting everyones time here.

The people running their mouths about "moneyhatting" were suggesting that MS bought exclusivity for Titanfall by paying EA to ensure the game didn't appear on Sony platforms.

Keighley's piece makes it clear that Sony wasn't interested in the game and that whilst MS did give EA money, it was solely for funding continued development as opposed to a sweetener to keep the game away from Sony.

Thus people in this thread were completely correct to post that the piece contradicts the "moneyhat" angle but for some reason you're continuing to fuck the "but MS DID pay so they were technically correct!" chicken.

Nobody is saying that MS didn't fund Titanfall's development. They're saying that they didn't pay money specifically to keep it away from Sony.

You're arguing against a position nobody's taking mate.

As ninja said, it's a stupid, nebulous term but either you don't understand what people mean when they use it or you're being ignorant.
 

aspiegamer

Member
Nov 10, 2013
6,546
0
0
Still haven't seen this answered-- I understand that Sony just didn't want to hand out anything about the PS4 and effectively chose to miss out on that end but is there anything specific regarding why it didn't come to the PS3? Was it a matter of Sony not wanting to invest a single penny into the "finish the game fund"?

Interesting on the PS4 thing though. It's their call on when they want to reveal their hardware of course, but it's also ballsy/interesting that they sat down and thought that "another new FPS IP" wasn't compelling enough. They may have regretted this decision somewhat immediately which could explain why they've subsequently gone so bonkers for Destiny as early as E3 2013..
 

Steverulez

Member
Dec 13, 2006
16,951
0
1,150
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Still haven't seen this answered-- I understand that Sony just didn't want to hand out anything about the PS4 and effectively chose to miss out on that end but is there anything specific regarding why it didn't come to the PS3? Was it a matter of Sony not wanting to invest a single penny into the "finish the game fund"?

Interesting on the PS4 thing though. It's their call on when they want to reveal their hardware of course, but it's also ballsy/interesting that they sat down and thought that "another new FPS IP" wasn't compelling enough. They may have regretted this decision somewhat immediately which could explain why they've subsequently gone so bonkers for Destiny as early as E3 2013..

Well I havent read it yet (I bought it earlier though) but I would guess if MS are going to give the money for development they werent doing it to release on Sony platform(s)
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 26, 2013
6,920
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Boston
Amazing, he's been exposed once again. I knew as soon as I read that "insiders" post it was pure bullshit like most internal stories he pulls out if arse. Shameful behaviour.

Finally got the real story from the horses mouth, just goes to show how much we don't know. And holy shit at the cool heads at EA, MS and Respawn with all the BS being flung around.

You do realize Sony not biting at complete funding in 2012 (that later led to exclusivity) doesn't necessitate that they didn't show EA the number they would have had now in 2014 had EA funded and made it multiplat.

Put away the pitchforks folks.
 

Jomjom

Banned
Nov 26, 2009
11,734
2
0
Los Angeles
You do realize Sony not biting at complete funding in 2012 (that later led to exclusivity) doesn't necessitate that they didn't show EA the number they would have had now in 2014 had EA funded and made it multiplat.

Put away the pitchforks folks.

I would think it would be in Sony's best interest to show them the numbers anyway if they were hoping to prevent TF2 from going exclusive as well. Gotta give them every reason to make the sequel multiplat.
 

Orayn

Member
Jul 4, 2010
34,289
4
920
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What a fucking clown, Jesus Christ. Make sure to donate to his indiegogo campaign so he can bring you more bullshit.

It's kinda sad to look back at quotes like these and see that Mort was basically becoming a well-spoken version of Misterxmedia, posting his own mix of speculation, heresay, and BS as actual news.
 
Sep 15, 2011
12,984
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Not to single you out, but we don't. Look at all that has gone on, not just this but other big stories about the industry, if there's anything you take away from this thread and the others, it's this: we don't know anything.

What is heresay shouldn't be taken as actual events. Druckman, Marty, Evolution studios, Respawn etc so much speculation taken on and used as fact, we end up with debates about events that have never taken place.

But actual developers were commending Sony at the February reveal for their outreach. Even going as far as Randy Pitchford and others being vocal about 4 GB not being enough so they listened and put in 8 GB. Bubble offering input on the controller design, down to the deadzone of the sticks. We do know those things. Those stories came straight from the horse's mouth. Now here we have Respawn saying Sony declined to talk to them, so we are obviously missing a key part if that story.
 

daman824

Member
Sep 5, 2013
3,128
0
0
I would think it would be in Sony's best interest to show them the numbers anyway if they were hoping to prevent TF2 from going exclusive as well. Gotta give them every reason to make the sequel multiplat.
No. There really is no reason that Sony would show the numbers. And the "insider" was most likely wrong about what happened and let his own bias dictate what he posted. I highly doubt EA cared about any missed sales. The game was not going to come out on the ps4 period. Team was too small and they just didn't have enough time. So those aren't "lost sales". You can't miss out on something that you had no chance of having in the first place.

But I can all but guarantee that it was always the plan that if the first game did well, the second would go multiplatform.

Sony wouldn't be rubbing numbers in someone elses face when they rejected the game in the first place.
 

Mechazawa

Member
May 31, 2011
8,137
1
545
So I guess 2012 was the last glory year of Sony being stupid as hell until Microsoft took over the baton.
 

Into

Member
Aug 20, 2012
8,459
1
0
The people running their mouths about "moneyhatting" were suggesting that MS bought exclusivity for Titanfall by paying EA to ensure the game didn't appear on Sony platforms.


*I* never made any statements how evil and corrupt and vicious and devious MS was for money hatting/funding anyone or anything, hence my reply to the user. This is where you barged in with your hit n post

Keighley's piece makes it clear that Sony wasn't interested in the game and that whilst MS did give EA money, it was solely for funding continued development as opposed to a sweetener to keep the game away from Sony.

Thus people in this thread were completely correct to post that the piece contradicts the "moneyhat" angle but for some reason you're continuing to fuck the "but MS DID pay so they were technically correct!" chicken.

Chicken what?! Are you on your cellphone and it autocorrected it? Are you calling me a chicken? What?

But anyways, "moneyhat" is not exactly a hat with money in it, its ways to incite a publisher to give you exclusivity and it can be done through various ways, such as supporting them with a marketing budget + campaign (Sony -> Final Fantasy 7), in addition to having CD roms, or allowing third parties to take a bigger cut off sales (PSX) i already mentioned this. TF had troubled development, MS saw value in the title and supported them. ..thats great?!

Nobody is saying that MS didn't fund Titanfall's development. They're saying that they didn't pay money specifically to keep it away from Sony.

No what they were saying was "Ha see, no moneyhat involved!", when in fact money was involved.

You are being obtuse and trying argue semantics here, money left Microsoft, and that
money went to Respawn. Period. Out of that a game popped out, that is exclusive on Xbox platforms.

Why do you think a PS3 version of this game does not exist? Cannot use the "Sony did not give Respawn PS4 information" here, so what is the reason? Perhaps the reason is that MS did fund the game, thus was not interested in funding the PS3 version? Makes sense to me.

You're arguing against a position nobody's taking mate.

No "mate" i am arguing against making a proclamation that i clearly never made.

As ninja said, it's a stupid, nebulous term but either you don't understand what people mean when they use it or you're being ignorant.

If you got a problem what someone *****else***** said about the so called Evil Microsoft with their devious tactics, you address them. I have no problem with any of this, and i am thrilled that MS helped with their money to get this title released, as its quite a good game. I am not going to argue for them, or even take the stance they have. Again for the 9384th time, i have no problem with MS funding this game, and securing its exclusivity.

TLDR: Money left Microsoft, and the same money got this game made, which in turn resulted in MS getting exclusivity for the game on their platforms (which is a rather fair tradeoff). That is it.
 

Curufinwe

Member
May 20, 2009
31,241
2
725
No. There really is no reason that Sony would show the numbers. And the "insider" was most likely wrong about what happened and let his own bias dictate what he posted. I highly doubt EA cared about any missed sales. The game was not going to come out on the ps4 period. Team was too small and they just didn't have enough time. So those aren't "lost sales". You can't miss out on something that you had no chance of having in the first place.

Everyone thought the plan was for for Titanfall to come out on the PS4 after being exclusive to the Xbone for a some limited period. Then MS paid to extend the exclusivity from temporary to permanent last October.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706361
 

TyrantII

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Oct 26, 2013
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Everyone thought the plan was for for Titanfall to come out on the PS4 after being exclusive to the Xbone for a some limited period. Then MS paid to extend the exclusivity from temporary to permanent last year.

With MS funding it from 2012, they probably had certain milestones to hint for continued funding and MS had contract options when they did meet their targets; like making it system exclusive for the last round of funding.
 
Sep 15, 2011
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So I guess 2012 was the last glory year of Sony being stupid as hell until Microsoft took over the baton.

Or maybe Sony was smart. They can't really afford to lose money like MS can, and by the looks of the deep discounts the Titanfall bundle had and the lukewarm response to the 360 version it appears MS may have taken a bath on this. Meanwhile Titanfall 2 will go to sell gang busters including on PS4 and Sony didn't have to spend a dime.

MS basically incubated a new studio and franchise only to watch it spread its wings and fly away.
 

daman824

Member
Sep 5, 2013
3,128
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Everyone thought the plan was for for Titanfall to come out on the PS4 after being exclusive to the Xbone for a some limited period. Then MS paid to extend the exclusivity from temporary to permanent last October.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706361
Microsoft funded the damn game.

And there is no way you can believe morts post. "EA is in full apology mode"? Ha! Come the fuck on, it's not like Sony is going to make the same mistake over again. "Oh no! Sony will reject titanfall 2 as well! We better start kissing their asses!". Yeah.....right.
 

hodayathink

Member
Mar 13, 2013
6,450
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But actual developers were commending Sony at the February reveal for their outreach. Even going as far as Randy Pitchford and others being vocal about 4 GB not being enough so they listened and put in 8 GB. Bubble offering input on the controller design, down to the deadzone of the sticks. We do know those things. Those stories came straight from the horse's mouth. Now here we have Respawn saying Sony declined to talk to them, so we are obviously missing a key part if that story.

The "key part" you're missing is the time frame. Respawn asked for this info in January of 2012, well over a year before the reveal of the console. Sony could have brought in third party developers somewhere around the summer of 2012 and still had more than enough time to make the changes that they're said to have made. Controllers can be prototyped on a small scale in a matter of weeks, dead zones are primarily just a software issue, and we already know that the 4GB/8GB choice came pretty late in the process.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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No. There really is no reason that Sony would show the numbers. And the "insider" was most likely wrong about what happened and let his own bias dictate what he posted. I highly doubt EA cared about any missed sales. The game was not going to come out on the ps4 period. Team was too small and they just didn't have enough time. So those aren't "lost sales". You can't miss out on something that you had no chance of having in the first place.

But I can all but guarantee that it was always the plan that if the first game did well, the second would go multiplatform.

Sony wouldn't be rubbing numbers in someone elses face when they rejected the game in the first place.

I don't know if Sony showed estimates or not and it seems like an unimportant event that'd be hard to prove or disprove. But certainly, the "We're so fucking sorry, Sony" stuff always read as fanboy nonsense even if you assume that such a meeting was plausible.