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[timetokill]

I have to say, conversation around here has been much more productive and even civil now that we're past the "YAAAAS QUEEN SLAYYYY" nonsense and dogpiling from poligaf/hillary megafans.

It's a shame that the staff doesn't seem to recognize the myriad of missteps they made. They were running against Donald fucking Trump. It shouldn't have been within that close of a margin in the first place. But they clearly expected a bunch of votes to simply appear without even paying lip service to the voters in question. The whole thing was arrogant, from the coronation of Hillary to the dismissal of Bernie voters to the expectation of minorities to carry the load despite not giving them much to feel excited about. This was a campaign that felt it was simply Hillary's turn and that everyone should obviously recognize that.

 

[freenudemacusers]

not sure what to do with myself now that the 'yass queen' squad is in their cement bunker, unable to gifspam, 'go on' bait, or any other measure of lazy dismissal now that the rep of hillary's campaign is in the toilet.

 

[jombag]

For real tho what an embarrassing loss. She lost to Donald Trump. I still cant believe it.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

So what it works on his voters. elections have shown for dems that's not the winning strat. People have said it before, obama handing this woman and some of her campaign staffers an L before with the same issues at play should've been a huge warning.

DNC would do a lot to read and actually relate to their own who can come or those that might, they didn't. Trump exploited everything he could including populism to get where he got, she just wanted a gimmie.

Hillary thought that moderate white Republicans were decent enough human beings that they wouldn't vote for a guy as obviously lacking in human decency as Trump.

She was certainly wrong, no Republicans voted for her, but she focused a lot of time and energy on this strategy and executed it I thought well.

 

[Faddy]

They should have spent all the money on flying home on polling in the final month instead.

Maybe she was worried about bedbugs.

If a Trump presidency was guaranteed to eliminate bed bugs the Donald would have turned New York bright red

 

[IJoel]

It's amazing what a difference 20/20 hindsight/Monday morning quarterbacking can do.

Indeed. Everyone's now an expert despite the vast majority of the polls being wrong.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

not sure what to do with myself now that the 'yass queen' squad is in their cement bunker, unable to gifspam, 'go on' bait, or any other measure of lazy dismissal now that the rep of hillary's campaign is in the toilet.

Well we can keep bitching about it or pick up the pieces and move on and hope the world doesn't burn too brightly.

Ultimately no discussion on these forums or stifling of discussion would have changed the fact that Hillary won the nomination and was going to be the nominee.

 

[teruterubozu]

I can kind of understand this. They'll never admit that they got outplayed by Kellyanne Conway and the orange buffoon, they need to protect their careers after all. It's gotta be a really tough pill to swallow.

 

[royalan]

... Why are people looking for "this is why we sucked" in a campaign letter addressing its staff? That's not how this works.

Jesus, what you're all looking for (a detailed analysis of exactly where the candidate/campaign/party went wrong) WILL come later, when more data is collected and parsed. But if you're expecting a campaign to berate its own staff days after the election... You're new to how campaigns work.

 

[cordy]

They really went down with the Trump does not have the temperament to be President, even in the debates when she said that Trump completely destroyed her when he replied that she would be in jail if he was President, people cheered and laughed. It's like they didn't know who they were running against.

In retrospect, imagine if you were Trump after saying that and hearing people laugh. I'd be thinking "damn ok well, this might go out differently than they expect."

 

[Count Dookkake]

makes you realise how suffocatingly effective the hillary advocates on here were at silencing dissent.

it just wasn't worth voicing an opinion until the levee broke.

Hopefully, this is the last lesson the SJWs among us need to see the futility, counter-productivity, and destructiveness of their shrill tactics.

I have to say, conversation around here has been much more productive and even civil now that we're past the "YAAAAS QUEEN SLAYYYY" nonsense and dogpiling from poligaf/hillary megafans.

Hopefully, once the shock of the change of that last YY to ED leads them to honest reflection.

 

[GSG Flash]

BUT THERE WAS NO SCANDAL.

The emails shit was nothing!



There is no there there! People thought it was a scandal because they hate her.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/4/13500018/clinton-email-scandal-bullshit

This is exactly the attitude that her campaign had and it may have helped her lose the election.

Let's see what exactly is the definition of scandal:

noun
noun: scandal; plural noun: scandals

an action or event regarded as morally or legally wrong and causing general public outrage.

So yes, there was a scandal and Hillary did a piss poor job of putting it to rest.

And yes, it did have an effect on voters:

I don't understand why Hillary supporters are STILL ignoring this as if it's nothing.

 

[dramatis]

I have to say, conversation around here has been much more productive and even civil now that we're past the "YAAAAS QUEEN SLAYYYY" nonsense and dogpiling from poligaf/hillary megafans.

It's a shame that the staff doesn't seem to recognize the myriad of missteps they made. They were running against Donald fucking Trump. It shouldn't have been within that close of a margin in the first place. But they clearly expected a bunch of votes to simply appear without even paying lip service to the voters in question. The whole thing was arrogant, from the coronation of Hillary to the dismissal of Bernie voters to the expectation of minorities to carry the load despite not giving them much to feel excited about. This was a campaign that felt it was simply Hillary's turn and that everyone should obviously recognize that.

I don't think conversation has been much more productive or even civil.

There were quite a lot of people coming out of the woodwork more than eager to throw minorities under the bus to appease rural whites, since minorities were no longer working overtime to win elections for them, apparently. That's apparently very productive and civil.

There were also a lot of people who were basically endlessly shitting on Hillary, on the Democratic party, on everybody. Of course, these were the same people who wrote endless walls of text shitting on Hillary up until the election, because it's more important to be negative about Hillary than to support progressive causes. Very productive to try and revise everything about the primary to paint Hillary as stupid, lazy, terrible, indeed, it's all very civil.

You only think it's nice and happy now because you're in agreement with them, that's all. But there's nothing civil or productive about the desperation to blame.

 

[Ray Down]

... Why are people looking for "this is why we sucked" in a campaign letter addressing it's staff? That's not how this works.

Jesus, what you're all looking for (a detailed analysis of exactly what the candidate/campaign/party went wrong) WILL come later, when more data is collected and parsed. But if you're expecting a campaign to berate it's own staff days after the election... You're new to how campaigns work.

.

 

[Chariot]

Indeed. Everyone's now an expert despite the vast majority of the polls being wrong.

Quite a few people here can source back posts of concern, it was just drowned out. Hell, Michael Moore figured out the Rust Belt and depressed voters in time, but he was also dismissed.

Few knew that this was going to happen, but a lot more people than you give credit to figured out that there was a bunch of wrong in the Clinton campaign that would endanger it.

 

[samn]

And yes, it did have an effect on voters:

I don't understand why Hillary supporters are STILL ignoring this as if it's nothing.

I'm not sure that this proves it had an effect, wouldn't be surprised if it did, but this isn't good evidence.

People already predisposed to dislike Hillary will think the email stuff was a big scandal, people already predisposed to like her won't.

 

[soul creator]

Nobody likes a loser.

People still worship Bernie tho

I think a more accurate way to phrase it is that "nobody likes a loser when the primary argument for that loser for the past year was that she was 'more electable' and basically had this in the bag and none of her flaws are gonna be a big deal because she's a known quantity"

Bernie lost, but he was a massive underdog in the first place, so it doesn't hurt him as badly. And for better or for worse, his actions were able to build trust with an audience, so even while losing he can get the benefit of the doubt. Clinton lost after month after month of hearing "she's more electable she's more electable she's more electable" even in the face of evidence showing otherwise. And it wouldn't surprise me if many of the Democrats that voted for Clinton in the primary didn't really care that much for her, but just wanted the more "electable" and well-known candidate because they just wanted to stop Republicans. So they held their nose, ignored her flaws, and voted for her for that reason. But it didn't work.

So it's kind of literally a case of "you had one job!"

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This is exactly the attitude that her campaign had and it may have helped her lose the election.

Let's see what exactly is the definition of scandal:



So yes, there was a scandal and Hillary did a piss poor job of putting it to rest.

And yes, it did have an effect on voters:

I don't understand why Hillary supporters are STILL ignoring this as if it's nothing.

Because there is literally no there there.

This is a "scandal" literally only because people hate Hillary Clinton. This is exactly like Whitewater and Benghazi in that Hillary is a criminal so this must be the crime she committed.

She should have never ran because people hated her, but there was no email scandal. No one cared about the emails or even understood what the scandal was, Trump literally still believes that she poured physical bleach over the emails and that it cost millions to delete them, they just didn't like her.

 

[pantsmith]

Burn it down.

This forum's turn on Clinton is absolutely unreal.

Not Clinton. The DNC. Obviously Clinton does not singlehandedly manage her campaign.

 

[Knoxcore]

He didn't lose to Donald Trump though.

But he did lose to Clinton.

 

[GSG Flash]

I'm not sure that this proves it had an effect, wouldn't be surprised if it did, but this isn't good evidence.

People already predisposed to dislike Hillary will think the email stuff was a big scandal, people already predisposed to like her won't.

People already predisposed to dislike Hillary entrenched themselves ever further in their dislike of her because of the emails, and the people who were mistrusting of her in the first place had something to point to for that mistrust.

Like they say, nothing travels faster than light with the possible exception of bad news. When there's something negative attached to your campaign, it will spread like a plague.

 

[Taiser]

 

[Juken]

This forum's turn on Clinton is absolutely unreal.

At least in my case I thought I was deferring to people that had more political acumen than me. I bought into the pragmatic approach and all of the handwaiving/dismissals of Hillary's flaws. Now I realize that probably wasn't the case and it's frustrating.

I think a lot of people either felt like me or just shut up since Hillary would probably win either way.

It always surprised me how much negativity I had seen about the Clintons since at least Occupy Wall Street from both left and right pretty much everywhere but GAF.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Yup. Looking back at her campaign stops is astounding. Never ventured out of the metropolitan areas and then proceeded to lose everything but the metropolitan areas.

Just make the effort.

I'm starting to think Hillary doesn't like rural, working class white people. Odd considering who she married.

 

[JP_]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ce-than-almost-anyone-else/?ex_cid=538twitter

FiveThirtyEight seems to corroborate their last minute switch data

I'm not sure that this proves it had an effect, wouldn't be surprised if it did, but this isn't good evidence.

People already predisposed to dislike Hillary will think the email stuff was a big scandal, people already predisposed to like her won't.

Well if so many people are predisposed to dislike Hillary than we shouldn't have fucking had her on the ticket in the first place.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Hopefully, this is the last lesson the SJWs among us need to see the futility, counter-productivity, and destructiveness of their shrill tactics.



Hopefully, once the shock of the change of that last YY to ED leads them to honest reflection.

The SJWs focusing too much on the (((globalists))) and the riggers, it's so sad.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Because there is literally no there there.

This is a "scandal" literally only because people hate Hillary Clinton. This is exactly like Whitewater and Benghazi in that Hillary is a criminal so this must be the crime she committed.

She should have never ran because people hated her, but there was no email scandal. No one cared about the emails or even understood what the scandal was, Trump literally still believes that she poured physical bleach over the emails and that it cost millions to delete them, they just didn't like her.

Perception is reality, friend. If it was manufactured or not, as long as it sowed the seeds of doubt, it did its job.

Is it fucked up and not fair? Sure.

Would my first choice of Biden have had nearly all that baggage? NOPE

 

[Chitown B]

"We believe that we lost this election in the last week."

they are really, really wrong.

 

[guek]

I think a more accurate way to phrase it is that "nobody likes a loser when the primary argument for that loser for the past year was that she was 'more electable' and basically had this in the bag and none of her flaws are gonna be a big deal because she's a known quantity"

Bernie lost, but he was a massive underdog in the first place, so it doesn't hurt him as badly. And for better or for worse, his actions were able to build trust with an audience, so even while losing he can get the benefit of the doubt. Clinton lost after month after month of hearing "she's more electable she's more electable she's more electable" even in the face of evidence showing otherwise. And it wouldn't surprise me if many of the Democrats that voted for Clinton in the primary didn't really care that much for her, but just wanted the more "electable" and well-known candidate because they just wanted to stop Republicans. So they held their nose, ignored her flaws, and voted for her for that reason. But it didn't work.

So it's kind of literally a case of "you had one job!"

Well put

 

[The Technomancer]

I am astounded at how much simultaneous deflection I see liberals desperately trying to make about why people voted for Donald Trump while simultaneously immediately turning on the woman who ran on the most detailed progressive platform in decades by an order of magnitude. This is why we're so fucked, because when they lose they blame us and when we lose we blame us.

Let's stop treating conservative voters like idiots and children please.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Perception is reality, friend. If it was manufactured or not, as long as it sowed the seeds of doubt, it did its job.

Is it fucked up and not fair? Sure.

Would my first choice of Biden have had nearly all that baggage? NOPE

Sure, I agree. Biden would have won pretty easily. He had a racist beginning to his political career and big business connections which would have hurt in the primaries, but his likability would have overcome it and I do think he would be a good president.

In retrospect, she shouldn't have run.

 

[soul creator]

Because there is literally no there there.

This is a "scandal" literally only because people hate Hillary Clinton. This is exactly like Whitewater and Benghazi in that Hillary is a criminal so this must be the crime she committed.

She should have never ran because people hated her, but there was no email scandal. No one cared about the emails or even understood what the scandal was, Trump literally still believes that she poured physical bleach over the emails and that it cost millions to delete them, they just didn't like her.

Many on the Clinton team over the past year would routinely point to things like Sanders saying nice things about Cuban health care as some ultimate dealbreaker that would destroy him in a general election, while simultaneously arguing that being under FBI investigation is no big deal because "she's been vetted already", which seems like a contradictory argument.

Either the appearance of scandal matters and should be worried about (regardless of whether there's actually facts behind it), which means the Clinton email stuff should have been taken more seriously, or the appearance of scandal doesn't matter, which would means that the argument against other candidates was always weak.

I think that's the kind of thing that people will have to recognize in a post mortem.

 

[Count Dookkake]

The SJWs focusing too much on the (((globalists))) and the riggers, it's so sad.

Eh? I don't follow.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

This forum's turn on Clinton is absolutely unreal.

She wa a poor candidate but probably not deserving of all the blame. From what some people have been saying here about her nowadays, it may as well be the Lock Her Up chants from the RNC.

 

[ibyea]

If there is one solace I can take from this is the vindication of Sanders fans and their warnings. And I wished the warnings were wrong. Heck, for a while I actually bought the crap the HillGAF were feeding me, as annoying and hubristic as they were. But guess what, she wasn't the "realistic" candidate they all thought she was. So screw Hillary Clinton, screw the DNC, screw those arrogant Clinton supporters, and screw all the hubris surrounding her.

 

[Chariot]

But he did lose to Clinton.

He did. But would that mean that he'd lost to Trump? Not necessarily, here's why:

The electorate of the general is naturally wider than the primary. You don't only have democrats, you have independents, swing voters and of course republicans. Hillary lost a bunch of registered democrats against Trump and failed to mobilize a lot of them.

Chances are, the people that voted against Trump and the people that voted for the democratic party were still there to vote. But in addition there would also be independents flocking to Bernie and anti-establishment crowds that can't pick Hillary on principle. Bernie also had not such a bad stand on republicans, because he worked bipartisan in the past. In the light of Trump, it would've maybe been preferable for the one or other republican to back Bernie and trust him to work with them, like he did before.

Bernie is also much harder to hit. Yes, he's old, he calls himself a socialist and there was that thing with his wife. But the socialist angle got tired out by the republicans long ago and everything else would get old quickly. He stood decades firmly with his believes, it was hard to attack him on policy, other than throwing socialist remarks on him.

In short, Bernie would've had most of the support Hillary had right now, but would've also siphoned away Trump's anti-establishment support and independents. The name of the game was Change, but Hillary played another one.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Many on the Clinton team over the past year would routinely point to things like Sanders saying nice things about Cuban health care as some ultimate dealbreaker that would destroy him in a general election, while simultaneously arguing that being under FBI investigation is no big deal because "she's been vetted already", which seems like a contradictory argument.

Either the appearance of scandal matters and should be worried about (regardless of whether there's actually facts behind it), which means the Clinton email stuff should have been taken more seriously, or the appearance of scandal doesn't matter, which would means that the argument against other candidates was always weak.

I think that's the kind of thing that people will have to recognize in a post mortem.

The argument against Bernie was that his health care plan was political suicide. She couldn't say that in the primary because Democrats liked it.

Single-payer lost 80-20 in Colorado, a strongly liberal state. No one other than strong liberals wanted their taxes to go up so that their health insurance could be replaced by government health care even though it would benefit them in the long term.

If there is one solace I can take from this is the vindication of Sanders fans and their warnings. Heck, for a while I actually bought the crap the HillGAF were feeding me, as annoying and hubristic as they were. But guess what, she wasn't the "realistic" candidate they all thought she was. So screw Hillary Clinton, screw the DNC, and screw those arrogant Clinton supporters.

Single
Payer
Lost
By
60
points
in
fucking
Colorado

 

[The Technomancer]

The argument against Bernie was that his health care plan was political suicide. She couldn't say that in the primary because Democrats liked it.

Single-payer lost 80-20 in Colorado, a strongly liberal state. No one other than strong liberals wanted their taxes to go up so that their health insurance could be replaced by government health care.

Reality no longer appears to have a liberal bias. It exists off in its own little bubble

 

[Kin5290]

This is exactly the attitude that her campaign had and it may have helped her lose the election.

Let's see what exactly is the definition of scandal:



So yes, there was a scandal and Hillary did a piss poor job of putting it to rest.

And yes, it did have an effect on voters:

I don't understand why Hillary supporters are STILL ignoring this as if it's nothing.

The point is that people thought the emails were a scandal because the media thought it was a scandal and worthy of endless coverage. To the point where nightly news coverage of her emails outweighed coverage of all of her policy issues combined.

If the media Romneyed Trump, by taking a look at his proposals (such as they existed) and weighing that against whether they would actually accomplish what Trump was promising, then the result of the election might very well have shifted.

 

[samn]

People already predisposed to dislike Hillary entrenched themselves ever further in their dislike of her because of the emails, and the people who were mistrusting of her in the first place had something to point to for that mistrust.

Like they say, nothing travels faster than light with the possible exception of bad news. When there's something negative attached to your campaign, it will spread like a plague.

Sure, but I'm making a specific point about the use of that data as evidence. It's not evidence.

 

[E92 M3]

I talked about her entitlement - she felt like the presidency is hers - for a long time, but eventually, there was no point. Feels good that we can have an open discussion again without HilGAF throwing insults.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

There were one million tweets in 12 hours about how Hillary Clinton was a Satan worshipper based on one joke in an email sent to the brother of one of Hillary's staffers.

Mmkay.

I talked about her entitlement - she felt like the presidency is hers - for a long time, but eventually, there was no point. Feels good that we can have an open discussion again without HilGAF throwing insults.

But I thought you guys didn't like political correctness? Why the change of heart?

 

[Officerrob]

... Why are people looking for "this is why we sucked" in a campaign letter addressing its staff? That's not how this works.

Jesus, what you're all looking for (a detailed analysis of exactly where the candidate/campaign/party went wrong) WILL come later, when more data is collected and parsed. But if you're expecting a campaign to berate its own staff days after the election... You're new to how campaigns work.

Sad that this post will be overlooked

 

[GSG Flash]

Many on the Clinton team over the past year would routinely point to things like Sanders saying nice things about Cuban health care as some ultimate dealbreaker that would destroy him in a general election, while simultaneously arguing that being under FBI investigation is no big deal because "she's been vetted already", which seems like a contradictory argument.

Either the appearance of scandal matters and should be worried about (regardless of whether there's actually facts behind it), which means the Clinton email stuff should have been taken more seriously, or the appearance of scandal doesn't matter, which would means that the argument against other candidates was always weak.

I think that's the kind of thing that people will have to recognize in a post mortem.

Exactly

In terms of running a campaign, what is the difference between a real scandal and a supposed/fake scandal that the larger population believes is a real scandal? You have to treat both as an actual scandal at that point.

Personally, I think all the email stuff was nothing more than bad judgment on her part, especially since nothing classified was exposed, and the hubbub over it was just bullshit, but you can't expect the general American public to take part in that sort of critical thinking, especially considering that they just elected Donald Trump for president.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Eh? I don't follow.

No, I think people who complain about SJWs know what (((globalists))) means.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Sad that this post will be overlooked

Cause its the same condescending bullshit that brought us to this huge L.

No discussion, no admitting to being wrong, just hehe u guys r dumb! Is this your 1st campaign?

Its not worth replying to.

 

[Schlep]

I agree with people annoyed that there's very little ownership taken. I was a Bernie supporter in the way I was an Obama supporter. He inspired me, and I wanted to vote for him.

With Hillary, the only reason I voted for her was due to Trump being the alternative. I see her as the definition of spineless. She'll do or say whatever is in her best interest at the moment. Maybe the impression is right, maybe it isn't, but I feel like a lot of people share that view.

 

[theignoramus]

I'm starting to think Hillary doesn't like rural, working class white people. Odd considering who she married.

Actually, she ran her 08 primary campaign trying to appeal heavily to that demographic. With some good ole fashioned dog whistles against Obama as well.

 

[Count Dookkake]

No, I think people who complain about SJWs know what (((globalists))) means.

I do not understand what your comment means and so I have no way to respond.

You can explain it if you want.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Sad that this post will be overlooked

Is this your first campaign?