The First 15 Minutes of Shadow of the Tomb Raider in 4K (IGN First)

#10
Any concerns people had with this looking like a last a gen game should be gone now.
The animations (especially traversal) remain decidedly 'last gen' (seriously, they're from the reboot which itself had roots in Underworld). I don't care about the cutscenes or presentation here, but as far as a Tomb Raider game goes (i.e. with challenging platforming involving timing & player skill), I see nothing to get excited about. It's still the same "ooh ahh look at these pretty graphicz… & oh FYI, just press forward & Lara practically auto climbs".

Lara's lack of precision in her movement & absence of challenge in terms of platforming kills these reboots as far as I'm concerned. It would be like rebooting Dark Souls with Nathan Drake's Uncharted gameplay. Das ist nicht Tomb Raider.

Also, "Jonahhh I'm heeeeeerrr". Really? Same effing dialogue.
 
#18
Jokes about QTE's and destroying tombs aside, I really do appreciate Square Enix publishing narrative based adventure/shooter games. Tho it won't rival the quality of an Uncharted game it does come close in delivering that same "feel". And since recently nearly all strong narrative driven games have been locked to a platform (mostly PlayStation) and PC not really getting many of them (unless you count RPG's in the same category) its a good thing that someone is delivering on it.

There will always be people that hate the fact a game they love is going into a different direction, and I feel you, it's not the same tomb raider, its not even the same Lara Croft. But when looking at this game in a vacuum I do feel its more worth having than not having it. One day some indie dev will make an old school tomb raider game to fill that hole don't you worry :p
 
#22
Jokes about QTE's and destroying tombs aside, I really do appreciate Square Enix publishing narrative based adventure/shooter games. Tho it won't rival the quality of an Uncharted game it does come close in delivering that same "feel". And since recently nearly all strong narrative driven games have been locked to a platform (mostly PlayStation) and PC not really getting many of them (unless you count RPG's in the same category) its a good thing that someone is delivering on it.

There will always be people that hate the fact a game they love is going into a different direction, and I feel you, it's not the same tomb raider, its not even the same Lara Croft. But when looking at this game in a vacuum I do feel its more worth having than not having it. One day some indie dev will make an old school tomb raider game to fill that hole don't you worry :p


Ya outside of story tomb raider is better in every way
 
#25
IGN

VId starts at 'real' gameplay: 4:30
Start of 'market' scene: 11:45


Combat tactics - teaser


Animations look really good, definitely better than that weird video that was released a week or so ago. Looks like a different game tbh. The kill and combat stuff looks cool, although I'm guessing most of us will take the standard kills instead of the flashy ones.
 
#33
Whilst I applaud the inclusion of the 'deadly obsession' difficulty (without all the survival instincts, white paint on ledges aka toddler-level assistance), unfortunately (as Rise of the Tomb Raider already demonstrated, i.e. the game gives a 'survival mode disabled' option), this doesn't impact Lara's own movement palette at all & has a very limited effect on the overall experience. She's still just as anti-gravity & floaty 'monkey-esque". Think of it like a racing car game in which difficulty is determined by the AI speed & turning the racing line off... whilst the player's own car has traction control, anti-lock brakes & other driving assistances permanently enabled. That's what playing these rebooted Tomb Raiders feels like.

We're long overdue a Tomb Raider game which returns to its actual skill based roots.
 
#36
When you design the foundation of a game to appeal to the lowest common denominator (because due to developing/marketing costs you need the game to appeal to everyone in order to have profits) it doesn't matter how many optional, arbitrary difficulty settings you apply. At best it will still be a messy,pointlessly frustrating and unsatisfying experience (due to the game wasn't designed in the first place to be played as such) and at worst it will expose even more the weaknesses of the inconsistent and imprecise controls (like not knowing exactly what lara can grab on or how far exactly can she jumb) and the weak level designs that were crafted by having in mind automatic and heavily scripted controls and an awful XP system which is what really dictates level progression.

If they seriously want to re-examine what a meaningful,balanced and satisfying challenge in a TR game could be then they need to a)bring back a precision based,manual platforming system where the player can calculate exactly what Lara can or can't do and b)remove the stupid XP based skill system. Give us all the "tools" (skills) to work on with from the beginning and design the levels in such a way that they can offer minute to minute meaningful exploration and platforming where as you progress and YOU the player not Lara get better at the game the challenges get more harder as well. I will never forget the satisfaction i felt when i first finished my first TR (TR2) and realized how the game progressively trained me to become better as a player.From struggling for an hour to understand how the controls work to making split second platforming decisions that required precision and calculation.

Of course is not easy to design a game like that. Even if Eidos Montreal/Crystal Dynamics wanted to make a game like that (they don't) i'm sure they wouldn't be able. You need to have great imagination something that is missing in a lot of modern game designers who rely more on story,hollywood set pieces and graphics to "wow" a player but ultimately offer a shallow and forgetful experience (like 99% of Hollywood movies). Meaningful gameplay and level design is a skill that tends to disappear nowdays and i think only Nintendo's and From Software's designers still know how to do it properly.
 
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#37
No matter how you slice it, there will always be people who will hate on this game for not being Uncharted, and/or for not being PlayStation exclusive.

I’ve seen so many posts in so many places where people have essentially just said al they needed to do was make uncharted but with a woman. These people clearly never played tomb raider on the PC back in the day (yes pc, it did get a botched PlayStation port, but it was on all consoles too).

What people are essentially saying, is that... they want a game that featured tank control basic movement with awful shooting mechanics even for its time, where the best you could do were few really basic moves... a game where there was a story, which was totally nonsensical and bare bones... and are moaning that it’s not the same game it used to be. What exactly would you have them do? No killing? Nobody would play it. Extreme difficulty based on movement? Nobody would play it...

Come on, think on eh?
 
#39
If they seriously want to re-examine what a meaningful,balanced and satisfying challenge in a TR game could be then they need to a)bring back a precision based,manual platforming system where the player can calculate exactly what Lara can or can't do and b)remove the stupid XP based skill system. Give us all the "tools" (skills) to work on with from the beginning and design the levels in such a way that they can offer minute to minute meaningful exploration and platforming where as you progress and YOU the player not Lara get better at the game the challenges get more harder as well. I will never forget the satisfaction i felt when i first finished my first TR (TR2) and realized how the game progressively trained me to become better as a player.From struggling for an hour to understand how the controls work to making split second platforming decisions that required precision and calculation.
Absolutely right, great post. In terms of comparisons to modern equivalents, I would say the original Tomb Raiders were to platforming what the current Dark Souls & Bloodborne are to combat, i.e. heavily skill based experiences which teach the player to get better - instead of relying on in-game metroidvania style boosters to make the character beat challenges with little player input (which is what Lara's reboot xp system does).

Those 1990's 'tank controls' were actually highly precise & allowed the player to understand what Lara could & couldn't do. The levels were designed accordingly & each movement was equal in terms of physics... whilst each level demanded a different combination of her movements. Here's an interesting article on the subject: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/187601/untold_riches_the_intricate_.php

The classic Tomb Raider games are some of the most commercially successful of all time. They were formative for many of today's gamers and game designers. They've become most famous for their varied texture work, and for the iconic Lara Croft, with her associated sex appeal. But, at the outset of the franchise, playing Tomb Raider wasn't about getting to know Lara Croft's character. It was about searching, shooting, and platforming -- mostly platforming.
When I hear & read comments from people who suggest those tank controls 'sucked', I say they miss the point entirely & the games were successful precisely because Lara's adventures posed a satisfying challenge within a physics momentum based set of rules - much in the same way current Souls games are popular because the combat can be learned & mastered. I also totally reject the theory gamers are 'thick' & require a dumbed down easy-peasy game in order for the title to sell millions. Once again, Souls disproves this theory (as did the recent Crash Bandicoot remake, i.e. a remake which preserved the heart & soul (+ difficulty) of the original).
 
#40
The problem is that a lot of people who criticize the fans of the older games for wanting a return to the series traversing roots fail to realize that today you can have a grid based engine that could feel a thousand times more fluid and faster than what Core Design made in 1996 but still retain all the benefits of such a system like the consistent and precision based controls.

Also ruvikx although i agree with your Souls example the main difference is that From Software never had a budget even relatively close to that of Crystal Dynamics.Therefore their profit expectations were much less to what SE expects from TR.
I believe that if TR was ever to return to its roots it would also need a major overhaul in both tone and graphics (less serious tone and more stylized graphics instead of photorealism) in order to match the gameplay changes and still make it profitable.
 
#41
Looks really good, I will probably wait until after September tho as I will be busy with Spider-Man and spyro.
I like that this TR has a lot of difficulty options,like being able to turn off the highlights on rocks showing you where to climb !
 
#42
Also ruvikx although i agree with your Souls example the main difference is that From Software never had a budget even relatively close to that of Crystal Dynamics.Therefore their profit expectations were much less to what SE expects from TR.
I believe that if TR was ever to return to its roots it would also need a major overhaul in both tone and graphics (less serious tone and more stylized graphics instead of photorealism) in order to match the gameplay changes and still make it profitable.
I've long held the view Crystal have grossly mismanaged their resources & focused on pointless - almost trivial expenses (seriously, their story is like shit-tier 1990's bad episode of Sliders, ergo their 'cinematic' expenses are just outright dumb). Vis-à-vis the reboot story I also take issue with its ultra serious tone which is laughable considering the preposterousness of everything & everyone within it. But, you're right about 'stylized' graphics (especially in terms of keeping expenses down) for future games, at least in the beginning because I'm certain a "return to roots" would soon find its audience again.

Souls should probably always serve as an example of how to do something 'right' in any case, i.e. low expense & highly popular within its target audience = win, win & more win. These new Tomb Raiders have a scattergun approach which doesn't really satisfy anyone beyond tepid interest from certain third person shooter fans & others who automatically buy anything with Tomb Raider in the title.
 
#43
I think the reboot is pretty good in terms of pure entertainment, with stellar graphics, cool set pieces and satisfying, albeit dumbed down, gameplay. But anyway you see it, these new games are a far cry from what the series initially pioneered and I would love a return to that. The level design and exploration in the OG Tomb Raiders are nowhere to be found in these modern games which makes them lose the staying power of the originals.

Unfortunately I think a return to roots won't happen, since sales declined very heavily even after Tomb Raider 3, with the formula quickly becoming stale, prompting the first reboot. Granted it was a different time then, but I'm hesitant SE and Crystal wants to revisit old and proved territory in favor of these new state of the art-games they keep churning out. On the other hand, the formula for these games are also beginning to wear thin, so maybe a third reboot would force the series back to its roots. It would also be nice if Crystal could forge its own identity for TR instead of wanting to be Uncharted (which is ironic since Uncharted pulled a lot of inspiration from Tomb Raider).
 
#44
I will play this at some point. Not right away because Spidey and DQXI, but I'm sure I'll get around to it. I'm of the older generation who feels the older games were better, more rewarding and despite the smaller size actually felt "bigger." Tomb Raider and Rise, because they were "open world," basically had Lara running back and forth across the same two or three environments the whole game. Tomb Raider 2 back in the day had some GLORIOUS stages and variety. Like the venice stage, riding the jet ski, riding the snowmobile! I mean, there's NOTHING like that in these newer games. The reboot just feels "by the numbers."

That said I'm a big fan of Uncharted and this helps me get my fix. I find you will appreciate the reboot series more if you go in knowing it's an Uncharted knock off instead of going in expecting true "Tomb Raider."
 
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#46
I still have not finished the previous two. Not bad games, but it seems like design by committee. It's like the worst of Far Cry stuffed on top the worst of Uncharted. The bad guys, side chars and Lara are all boring and forgettable.
 
#48
I don't know, too similar to Uncharted, they should try something different. And when you keep copying, the result will never be like what you are trying to copy.
 
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#50
Looks great, saddly Lara is not a videogame icon like at the PS1-2 era so the game will pale against Red Dead Redemption 2 and Spidy game. Guess it will have legs on the long run. The main problem with the series is the lack of personality Lara has also the gameplay moved to an action adventure so exploration less protagonism. Will wait for a GOTY edition