The first 30 minutes of The Killing Joke is awful. (Spoilers)

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#51
That whole subplot makes Batman in the ending extra awful. First he ignores the girl he just had an intimate time, then he shares a good laugh with the guy who just paralyzed her a couple of hours ago.

Unbelievable. Well, i never liked the killing hoje that much anyway. Hope they never try to make an animated movie of arkham asylum though.
Agreed. I posted in the other thread before making this thread:
I just finished watching it, and this was exactly what I thought. i couldn't believe the characterization of Batgirl.

Tonally the ending feels so out of place, and literally laughs in the face of those brutalized in order to share a bro moment with a killer/rapist.
 
#52
Moore's disowned it.

And even if he hadn't, without making Barbara an actual character he's done the story a disservice. Because her victimisation eliminates a vital part of the story for the piece to work. She's just there to drive the plot along, and I think deep down Moore knows he fucked up there.
Yeah, that's what I meant calling you Alan Moore hah.

I don't disagree with you. Ultimately, I still believe it's an above average Batman story and one of the more notable ones with a large demographic of fans.
 
#57
Here's the thing, The Killing Joke could work as a film, but it should be very dark. Tonally it should feel like The Green Room. Like a superhero horror film. You can't be afraid of criticism and actually go there, in order to make people truly feel the type of trauma inflicted upon Barbara, Her Father, and Batman as we did in the comic.

You feel none of it here.
 
#58
Yeah, that's what I meant calling you Alan Moore hah.

I don't disagree with you. Ultimately, I still believe it's an above average Batman story and one of the more notable ones with a large demographic of fans.
It's a fun story. I think it's good, but i also agree that it's not the top 10 Batman stories to me. It's very shallow overall and feels almost surreal. People complain about Barbara characterization, but apart from the Joker, everyone in this book feels like someone else (and even Joker was not like that at the time, but it ended up sticking).

The movie looks like it tried to bring more to the table though. Barbara on the comic is just a mean to an end, where in the movie they seem to give her an additional layer (even though it's awful). If they made it work, perhaps the results would be even more potent, but as where it is, it looks like a fanfic.
 
#59
Dear lord, that's depressing. Babs' treatment in The Killing Joke was always pretty shit, but this is triple-swirl-with-a-cherry-on-top creepy bullshit. The fuck?
 
#61
It's a fun story. I think it's good, but i also agree that it's not the top 10 Batman stories to me. It's very shallow overall and feels almost surreal. People complain about Barbara characterization, but apart from the Joker, everyone in this book feels like someone else (and even Joker was not like that at the time, but it ended up sticking).

The movie looks like it tried to bring more to the table though. Barbara on the comic is just a mean to an end, where in the movie they seem to give her an additional layer (even though it's awful). If they made it work, perhaps the results would be even more potent, but as where it is, it looks like a fanfic.
I think what makes TKJ a very good short story is precisely that anyone who isn't the Joker is just an object, including Batman. It is a very tight script. It's about how a monster rationalizes to himself that he isn't truly evil, he just had a bad day and went insane and the story, overall, takes the side of the monster, it makes us want to understand his point of view as close as possible without endorsing it. Even Batman and Gordon just show up so you can remember that the Joker is supposed to be a villain and even then it ends with Batman kind-of-almost-of-sorta sympathizing with him.

This is a problem of modern movies as well. Whenever you add filler junk to an otherwise laser-focused script, you are just asking for problems.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
#62
He knows The Killing Joke is one of the worst things he's written anyway. I'm not sure he'd really care that they found a new way to make it bad, just that they made it into a movie in the first place.
Aye. I don't dislike TKJ, but it's not even in the top ten Batman stories IMO; let alone something which should be held up as a great comic-book in general.
...I thought I was alone T-T
 
#63
I know Bruce Timm wanted to do a Batgirl: Year One movie ages ago and now I'm thinking it was a blessing in disguise that he didn't.
 
#64
I'm not in disagreement of what others are stating of the overall story.

There has just been a trend of people dismissing it recently (largely reactionary to Alan Moore's commentary). It's place is still there amongst the most recognizable reads. That's my point.
 

Subpar Spatula

It's not like you to say sorry, I was waiting on a different story. This time I'm mistaken for handing u a heart worth breaking. I've been wrong, I've been down into the bottom of every bottle. These 5 words in my head scream "Are we having fun yet"
#66
Y'all gotta realize Batman is a pretty sleazy and immoral dude. I wonder if this is because society has finally caught on how awful he is and now there's finally backlash.
 
#67
I think what makes TKJ a very good short story is precisely that anyone who isn't the Joker is just an object, including Batman. It is a very tight script. It's about how a monster rationalizes to himself that he isn't truly evil, he just had a bad day and went insane and the story, overall, takes the side of the monster, it makes us want to understand his point of view as close as possible without endorsing it. Even Batman and Gordon just show up so you can remember that the Joker is supposed to be a villain and even then it ends with Batman kind-of-almost-of-sorta sympathizing with him.

This is a problem of modern movies as well. Whenever you add filler junk to an otherwise laser-focused script, you are just asking for problems.
Hmm, when you put it like that, i agree. I just don't feel it's a particular good story. Perhaps it's the fact that everyone is so out of character or that the story is so short, but even when i first readed way back then, it never grabbed my attention like other classics like year one, Tdk and Arkham asylum. It's a well constructed comic, but not one that made me fall in love with. I'm not too fond of the Joker character though, so that's probably it. I liked him more when he wasn't so edgy, which is funny, since killer joke is one of the comics that pretty much changes him towards what he is nowadays.




I'm not in disagreement of what others are stating of the overall story.

There has just been a trend of people dismissing it recently (largely reactionary to Alan Moore's commentary). It's place is still there amongst the most recognizable reads. That's my point.
Well, lately Alan Moore has been dismissing pretty much everything he wrote when he was younger and people still love most of it. I believe some people were influenced, but there also the fact that this comic is one of his biggest works, so there's more people reading and making critiques than stuff like Promethea or League of extraordinary gentlemen.
 
#68
Not reading the spoilers but was the animation as shitty as the trailer?

There's a one off screening at a nearby cinema tomorrow and I kind of want to see the final hurrah of Conroy and Hamill together but I don't want to waste my batbux on an animated film that has bad animation.
 
#74
Alan Moore?!

I think your point is arguable, but it's generally found somewhere amongst the better Batmang stories.
Even Alan Moore himself doesn't think too highly of the book, if I remember rightly.

I personally appreciate TKJ for a lot of things, but I absolutely hate the pedestal it's been put on, and this animated adaptation is looking increasingly bad.

The description in the OP makes me cringe.
 
#76
Even Alan Moore himself doesn't think too highly of the book, if I remember rightly.

I personally appreciate TKJ for a lot of things, but I absolutely hate the pedestal it's been put on, and this animated adaptation is looking increasingly bad.

The description in the OP makes me cringe.
I mentioned that in additional posts.

Also, Alan Moore is a crazy person. Imaginary bats and such.
 
#77
I mentioned that in additional posts.

Also, Alan Moore is a crazy person. Imaginary bats and such.
Ah, sorry. Went straight to quote.

He's not as crazy as people think he is, the "dark wizard" and snake god stuff is just him fucking with people. Moore does smoke a tremendous amount of weed though, so he's probably a little bit loopy in ways beyond his well-noted (and ultimately well-reasoned) paranoia.
 
#80
Yiiiikes. I was really hoping this would be at the very least an interesting adaptation and I was so excited to see Mark Hamill return but this whole Barbara sex plotline nonsense and 30-minute intro really buried my interest. Along with the mediocre impressions overall on the actual TKJ stuff, I might just wait for this to come to Netflix or something. What a shame.
 
#81
lol DC managed to fuck this up? Fucking Bruce Timm. Knew he wound stan that Batman/Batgirl shit into the movie somehow. Fucker has always been a stan on that.


Fuck. Literally, just follow the comic. But noooo, DC had to DC (and their animation group use to be GOAT).
 
#83
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07...killing-joke-qa-from-the-san-diego-screening/

An article from the panel attendee who snarked at the panel and got called a derogatory term by writer Brian Azzarello.

I will say that Azzarello's take on Batman has never sat well with me; he adheres to the "Miller" belief that Batman is a psycho thug and all-around messed up person mentally; that comes through in his work, and in my view has always been a poor interpretation of the hero to make in general.
 
#86
lol DC managed to fuck this up? Fucking Bruce Timm. Knew he wound stan that Batman/Batgirl shit into the movie somehow. Fucker has always been a stan on that.


Fuck. Literally, just follow the comic. But noooo, DC had to DC (and their animation group use to be GOAT).
He always pushing for this for some reason
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
#89
I thought the animation would be my issue with this movie.
It was the only thing I could deal with.
The story in the first half is shit. They ruined Batgirl. I hope you guys give her a second chance, she's one of the best. Please read/watch Bat Girl Year One. The actual second part of the movie, is alright for an adaptation of the killing joke. But what came before it will take you out of the mood completely. Didn't even finish watching it.
 
#97
There are a lot of previews out there and it premiered at comic con last night so now everyone knows what happened in it.
So most people on here have pirated it or watched the pirated version at their "mates" house? I didn't think Gaf allowed such discussion. Got my tickets for 3pm tomorrow here in Australia, taking my 15 year old daughter who is a new Batman fan, I'll listen to her take on it, see if she thinks the Batgirl arc is warranted. Having read the Killing Joke on its release alongside Batgirl and Batman I'd like to hear the opinions of someone with no preconceived notions as to whether the Batgirl section helps to build the scene. I believe it was put in so Batgirls trials had some meaning, a 90 minute film has to make up for the decades of backstory that comic fans had already experienced when reading the original source material.
 
#98
Y'all gotta realize Batman is a pretty sleazy and immoral dude. I wonder if this is because society has finally caught on how awful he is and now there's finally backlash.
Only if the writer wants him to sleazy. Plus this sounds like Frank Miller All-Star Batman type of sleazy.
bcuz
timm needs new material for his spank bank
I wanna believe Dini kept Timm's Pervy side under control back when they worked together. I think Gail Simone once said that Timm could never keep his promise to not draw DC female characters in pin-up poses every year.
It's in theaters? Thought it was a straight to video release.
This isn't a movie that was made for wide theater release. It's still straight-to-home release but DC or WB decided it should be in select theaters for like two days due to it's name.
 
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