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The Formula 1 2015 Pre-Season |OT| The Power of Dreams™

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Mastah

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Apr 12, 2007
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So this is where Whitmarsh eneded up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-Sir-Ben-Ainslie-rang-about-Americas-Cup.html

 

Lucius86

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Jul 13, 2009
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Its F1 time again. I'm happy.

Hope Manor pull off a Brawn and have a quintuple diffuser with super active suspension and secret traction control systems no one else has thought of, allowing them to win the first race before everyone copies it for the rest of the season.

This Sauber driver nonsense is a sham. They better be at the back of the grid.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Jan 5, 2012
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Oh absolutely, it's just that he he took the moral high ground from the start and based the whole trial on that he "just wanted to drive" when surely his billion dollar lawyer told him from the start that the team would go under if he won the case.

But it doesn't matter now. He will get the cash that he is owed when the team assets are sold off.

F1 |OT| 10 teams, no 9 teams, 8 teams? start the season.

It's not like he's driving for free. He's bringing plenty to the table, it might be a few million per year less than the other two, but it's not a few million per race.

And even that is completely ignoring the fact that they took his money for a year under the promise he'd get a drive and then completely screwed him over. So, he both doesn't get to drive and also has a bunch of sponsors that were promised a F1 driver's exposure. And those guys won't come knocking on Sauber's door for a refund, but on Giedo's.

So yeah, blaming him for "killing Sauber" or blaming him for going after what he's owed is ridiculous. Nor could you blame Sutil, Ericsson or Nasr for getting theirs. This is still a business and contracts exist and are legally binding for a reason. So blame Sauber's management, not the victims of their mismanagement.
 
Sep 20, 2007
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So yeah, blaming him for "killing Sauber" or blaming him for going after what he's owed is ridiculous. Nor could you blame Sutil, Ericsson or Nasr for getting theirs. This is still a business and contracts exist and are legally binding for a reason. So blame Sauber's management, not the victims of their mismanagement.

Absolutely. Sauber's handling of this has been abhorrent on all fronts it seems.
 

Burai

shitonmychest57
Oct 19, 2006
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Oh absolutely, it's just that he he took the moral high ground from the start and based the whole trial on that he "just wanted to drive" when surely his billion dollar lawyer told him from the start that the team would go under if he won the case.

But it doesn't matter now. He will get the cash that he is owed when the team assets are sold off.

F1 |OT| 10 teams, no 9 teams, 8 teams? start the season.

But he has nothing to lose. If they pay him off they go bankrupt, if he drives for them they'll go bankrupt.

GvdG is as liable to his sponsors as the team are to him so they are already circling to get their money back if he doesn't provide the service they paid for which is "Giedo van der Garde driving a Sauber with our name on it".

The only way Sauber survives this is if they just get away with what amounts to fraud. Unlike the team, van der Garde has nothing to be ashamed of.
 

Mohonky

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Jan 19, 2007
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Sauber have fucked themselves. How could they be so.....and continue to be so stupid. They are going to be torn apart by lawyers, sponsors and investors from every angle here. No matter what they decide to do from here there is no safe direction to go.


Also who is Manor (I havent been paying attention) and are they actually racing in Melbourne or showing up as a formality? I het the impression it is the ressurected corpse of Marrusia now owned by someone else?
 

Staab

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Also who is Manor (I havent been paying attention) and are they actually racing in Melbourne or showing up as a formality? I het the impression it is the ressurected corpse of Marrusia now owned by someone else?

It is Marussia, which was originally Manor GP before the "Russian buyout".
They have to run under the Marussia name to be eligible for the 2014 constructor rewards, but they've been bought out by completely different people and have new staff.
Nobody knows what is happening with them, right now it seems they're just showing up for the money (if they don't race, they don't get last year's money) but they said they have plans to stay for the whole season.
 

Staab

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Is that the consensus?

I disagree with the consensus, then.
You're right it might be my opinion.
A majority seems to think they're not going to be able to perform within the 107% and I agree with that, so I don't see how they could keep on showing up without racing.
But we'll have to see and I'll change my wording!
 

Spookie

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Oct 17, 2009
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What a crock of shit. Not only is this not live on BBC. But to top it off it also means I can't watch the V8 Supercars since it's the supporting race and isn't being streamed on BT Sport or Motors TV like usual.

Fucking Sky impacting all my motorsport viewing this weekend. :/
 

Gruso

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Aug 14, 2012
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What a crock of shit. Not only is this not live on BBC. But to top it off it also means I can't watch the V8 Supercars since it's the supporting race and isn't being streamed on BT Sport or Motors TV like usual.

Fucking Sky impacting all my motorsport viewing this weekend. :/
There may be streaming options from our local free to air channel Ten. Poke around here on the weekend:

http://tenplay.com.au/sport

Unsure of region restrictions, but they can be dealt with.
 

NHale

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Mar 3, 2009
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Well, congrats to Van Der Garde for killing Sauber. I hope it's what he wanted

Why not congratulate Eriksson as well for killing Sauber? Because he could easily go to Sauber management and say "Hey let Van der Garde have my spot and you can keep the sponsorship money given to you by my sponsors". It's basically what you are saying Van der Garde should have done, so Eriksson can do the same as well.

So yes, congrats to Eriksson, Nasr and Van der Garde for killing Sauber. It's their fault not Sauber management team.
 

DieH@rd

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Dec 9, 2006
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Sauber 100% deserves what happened to them. I eagerly wait to see what will happen at the start of the practice session.
 

itsgreen

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Mar 28, 2007
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Why not congratulate Eriksson as well for killing Sauber? Because he could easily go to Sauber management and say "Hey let Van der Garde have my spot and you can keep the sponsorship money given to you by my sponsors". It's basically what you are saying Van der Garde should have done, so Eriksson can do the same as well.

So yes, congrats to Eriksson, Nasr and Van der Garde for killing Sauber. It's their fault not Sauber management team.

Good point, more people say that, this is a good argument against that...
 

kharma45

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Aug 22, 2009
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Sauber 100% deserves what happened to them. I eagerly wait to see what will happen at the start of the practice session.

Yep. Whoever has made these decisions has cocked up massively and made Sauber look like nothing more than thieves.
 

nature boy

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Jan 16, 2006
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So Sauber in deep shit.

Manor showing up with no sponsors and most likely not participating in the race.

Mclaren just looking for mileage according to Button.


F1 is in great shape.
 

Lach

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Jul 21, 2009
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Having read some comments by drivers this morning, it seems situation like this have almost been common until now. So it's a good thing that a driver finally takes it this far.

For me personally it's just sad that it had to be Sauber, which (as I'm Swiss) have been following and supporting as an underdog, over the last two decades. There was some serious mismanagement in the last two years and now it all comes crashing down on them.

Looking forward to P1 to see how this all turns out. At this point I can see Sauber still blocking away and having their assets seized....

Interesting that the FIA has been quiet all this week.....
 

nature boy

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Jan 16, 2006
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So VdG has no superlicense (yet), if he doesn't get one can Nasr and Ericsson race?


Tobias Grüner AMuS ‏@tgruener 9h9 hours ago
Van der Garde does not have a Superlicence right now. Dutch ASN applied yesterday. Normally you need to do it 2 weeks before season starts.
 

mclem

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Jan 16, 2007
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So VdG has no superlicense (yet), if he doesn't get one can Nasr and Ericsson race?

Apparently there's an emergency option:

Apparently it's come to light that Giedo neglected to renew his superlicense over the winter for 2015, a process that normally takes 14 days. The FIA will fast-track this up to 48 hours before a Grand Prix under abnormal circumstances such as this, effectively giving VDG/Sauber 2 days to sort this out.

The team may well not even start the race at this rate.
 

tomtom94

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If the teams' race "preparations" continue at this rate I think F1 might break even Croft's enthusiasm for the sport.
 

Shaneus

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F1 2015 OT: Sauber seat lottery edition
Sauber musical chairs? When the money stops, last to sit down is out.


So, does anyone want audio uploaded from the pit walk yesterday? Or is it pretty widely known how the Honda and Merc sound up close (and how they compare)? Not fussed either way.

Edit: I'd laugh if Whitmarsh and Newey somehow end up together.
 

Ark

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If the teams' race "preparations" continue at this rate I think F1 might break even Croft's enthusiasm for the sport.

Eh, objectively, its probably for the best. F1 needs new blood and new ideals and that isn't going to happen with teams like Sauber dragging the sport's integrity through the mud and still managing to survive.
 

nature boy

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Jan 16, 2006
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Apparently there's an emergency option:

It's not that simple. Apparently, there's no contract lodged:

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperF1 4m4 minutes ago
Superlicence the big stumbling block for @GvanderGarde after Sauber terminated the contract lodged with the Contracts Recognition Board

If that's true (and legal), I doubt the FIA will issue the superlicense.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Jan 5, 2012
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It's not that simple. Apparently, there's no contract lodged:

If that's true (and legal), I doubt the FIA will issue the superlicense.

It's not legal, Sauber are required to give him the drive, and as such anything they actively do to prevent Giedo from getting his superlicense makes them liable. If they don't get him the superlicense, while it was perfectly possible to do so, they are in breach. If they actively don't make him a seat for the car, they are in breach. Anything they "don't do" and then cite as a reason why they couldn't let him drive is going to bite them in the ass later.

They'll try, because they're not budging, perhaps, but it won't help them.
 

Dilly

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Mar 24, 2008
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Eh, objectively, its probably for the best. F1 needs new blood and new ideals and that isn't going to happen with teams like Sauber dragging the sport's integrity through the mud and still managing to survive.

Sauber going tits up isn't going to do shit about the ideals in F1. The sport's integrity has long been dead.
 

Staab

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Jun 13, 2010
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My guess is that Sauber is counting on Bernie's intervention for tomorrow :
they're basically pushing things back for as long as they can and as soon as there will be people and TVs there, Bernie will start getting involved and bribe authorities or whatever..
 

Jibbed

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Jun 11, 2011
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Whoever is saying Manor won't race this weekend or complete the season is talking shit.

They have the money. It's not even debatable. So what if they don't have sponsors all over the car right now? They had very little time to prepare. Their investors are saying all the right things, and they'll collect a nice little sum of money anyway for the points they got last year.

Sauber on the other hand.. They should worry more about the power Eriksson has with his backing and the consequences for pissing them off, rather than Nasr and the Banco de Brasil. I can see Nasr going, personally. I'm more interested to hear what Peter Sauber has to say now the management he put in place has fucked up so badly.

Force India will almost definitely fold at the end of this season IMO. We have HAAS coming in, so at the very least there will still probably be 10 teams. Who knows, all those FI assets and facilties would be very attractive for another bored billionaire.
 

Psychotext

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Jun 15, 2007
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Whoever is saying Manor won't race this weekend or complete the season is talking shit.

They have the money. It's not even debatable. So what if they don't have sponsors all over the car right now? They had very little time to prepare. Their investors are saying all the right things, and they'll collect a nice little sum of money anyway for the points they got last year.
I'm saying they wont race, because they wont have a chance in hell of hitting the 107% times... and I really doubt they're going to get a pass just because they're poor.

They're here to collect the money from last season, and that's fine.
 

Jibbed

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Jun 11, 2011
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I'm saying they wont race, because they wont have a chance in hell of hitting the 107% times... and I really doubt they're going to get a pass just because they're poor.

They're here to collect the money from last season, and that's fine.

Oh yeah, that will be a close call. But the FIA has made allowances in the past.

I read on Autosport that their 2014 car's qualifying time was borderline with the projected 2-2.5s reduction in lap time 107% boundary for this year. As long as the car is SLIGHTLY better than that, then they should make it.

Edit: Adam Cooper tweeting that the C34's will be siezed by baliffs/sheriffs if VDG is not racing. Hahahahaha.
 

Psychotext

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Oh yeah, that will be a close call. But the FIA has made allowances in the past.

As a general rule, only when a car has show appropriate levels of pace in practice that they were unable to show in qualifying.

I personally don't think they'll be capable of it. Though based on what you're saying, it could be close.

Australia 2014 - Marussia's best time: 1:34.293
Best Q1 Time: 1:30.775

Projected Manor Time: 1:33.850 (Assuming they've got a better car)
Projected Best Q1 Time: 1:28.225

106.4%.

They'd better hope Merc doesn't unleash their real pace!
 
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