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The frustrating side of PC gaming and I want to be done with it.

JohnnyFootball

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Jan 20, 2014
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Specs:
Asus ROG Strix-E X570
AMD 3900X
Corsair 4 x 8GB 3200 Corsair memory sticks
EVGA Geforce 2080 Ti.
Sabrent M2 SSD 4.0 512 GB
Sabrent M2 SSD 2TB - where I keep most of my games.
Two additional 4TB HDDs.
PSU EVGA
Corsair All-in-one cooler.

I am pretty upset right now, because today I may be finally broken on dealing with PC.
It has become an unresponsive piece of crap and I don't know where to begin as far as diagnosis. There is very little to indicate what is causing the problem. I have been building an using PCs since the late 90s and this is the first time where I am seriously questioning whether it is worth it. PCs and gaming on a PC are wonderful experiences when they work right, but when you are having issues and you can't pinpoint the cause, it just becomes a fucking nightmare.


All of these parts are at least a year old aside from the Sabrent SSD 4.0 which is about 9 months old.

It started a couple of weeks ago with occasional bluescreens (NDU.sys was the primary guilty party) the causes seemed to happen when I was browsing the internet. I tried to find a fix, but searching (NDU.sys) gives you nothing but very generic suggestions and nothing really worked and most are advertisements to download software. There was no repeatable pattern, it just happened randomly with the common factor being the internet browsing. It never happened while gaming, only when browsing the internet. Other issues, are there are times when Windows wouldn't completely load. Many of the startup apps wouldn't complete and sometimes I would have to restart several times to get it to properly load. Most of these have been few and far between, but today I finally decided that I had had enough and decided to wipe my computer clean and do a fresh install. I performed a secure erase and used a brand new Windows install USB. Much to my surprise, not only did it not fix the issues, in many ways things are worse. Mainly because the bluescreen showed up again and now PV randomly hangs and I can't close or start apps. I end up hitting the reset button and from there it takes a couple of minutes to load Windows. There doesn't seem to be a discernible pattern.

Possible culprits that I am open to:
A bad motherboard ethernet port.
A possibly incorrect motherboard setting.
RAM not being compatible - doesn't seem likely since it was fine until a few weeks ago.
My 2TB SSD might be going bad, after the reinstall it was having issues being accessed. I did a secure erase on this and tried to install Origin, but when it started downloading a game, it lead to the system hanging. Not freezing or bluescreening. I will test this more and see if I can repeat the results. I would mention that when I got my 4.0 512 SSD back in November I was using the top M2 drive for my OS SSD and the 2TB was in the bottom M2 drive. However, when I tried to put the new 4.0 SSD in the top M2 drive, it wouldn't work and I ended up having to put it in the bottom M2 and moved the 2TB to the top. Maybe it had something to do with being near the video card.

Alright GAF, please help. I can't figure out anything. I'd like to try and narrow it down.

If I had to make an educated guess, it would be that Windows 10 version 2004 is complete shit and it's just not fully tweaked the way MS expected or hoped.
 
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CitizenX

Neo Member
Jul 15, 2020
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You may have a bad cable or SSD

The only time im frustrated you see a windows update. How great was that last one where it planted EDGE as your browser and you CANT uninstall it without going into powershell. MS is a fcking waste.
 
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SlimySnake

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2013
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if you spent $1,200 on a 2080ti you can spend a $100 on a shop to diagnose the issue.

just google computer repair and pick the one with the best reviews nearest from you. it will save you a lot of headache. let professionals deal with it.

and yes, pc gaming sucks. i also bought a pc with a 2080. fucking $1,500 and only a few months later, coil whine. only i didnt know what coil whine was. replaced so many parts before i realized it was the gpu.

this is my third PC in three gens and i have never had a PC without these issues. it is what it is. you gotta spend money .
 

Endless Fluff

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Feb 27, 2017
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The only trouble shooting I would recommend is unplug everything, remove everything internally except for Boot drive and 1 RAM stick and then start testing by adding one part after another. Maybe run memtest over night as well to check if RAM is really okay.

This is sadly the only way to single out faulty parts, but from what you're saying it could be the SSD.

If you believe that it is Windows, try to roll back to an older version and see if you still have that problem.
 

Patterson

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Apr 11, 2020
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Does the same thing happen if you use WiFi?
From the limited Googling it seems it could be driver related with your NIC.
 
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Freeman

Report me for trolling MS threads > 08/02
Aug 23, 2013
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Once I had a stuttering problem that made me leave PC for some time a bit burned out, no game felt smooth. These day I'm fine and learned that PC gaming isn't about having the latest hardware or optimizing everything.

As for your problem, remove everything you can and see if the problem persist, at least that way you can narrow it down.
 
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GHG

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Recheck all your wiring/connections to the motherboard but it sounds like a bad SDD or a bad RAM stick.

Go back to basics. Take out the nvme drives, install Windows on a Sata SSD, one RAM stick at a time, run memtest and asus realbench, rule out those pieces of hardware. If realbench is crashing take note of which part of the test it is crashing on, that will tell you a lot. If those bits of hardware are running without errors then add your nvme drives one at a time, install Windows on them and rinse repeat.

It also could be that your motherboard is going bad or there are compatibility issues due to the motherboard bios being out of date and the latest Windows updates have caused a conflict somewhere. But updating your bios should be a last resort after you've ruled everything else out.

Try to populate your motherboard with as little as possible and take it gradually to determine what the issue is.
 
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Damage Inc

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Nov 10, 2013
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I’ll tell you I had a hell of a time with a Ryzen build I did a few weeks ago. I’m an Intel guy and decided to give it a shot. I had blue screen issues because of my NVME and the RGB software. Something so ridiculous that I have never seen before. Also got crashes from storage coming out of hibernate. I have an X570 board and a 3700x. I’ve never had these quirky issues with my Intel builds but I’ve had to spend days getting this AMD build going. Between skipping certain software installs, multiple failed bios updates that say they complete and then show raid drives in event viewer but no bios, hibernate crashes etc. almost feels like chipset issues. But it’s solid now, cleared cmos, reinstalled windows, disabled hibernate and skipped rgb software except icue.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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I’ll tell you I had a hell of a time with a Ryzen build I did a few weeks ago. I’m an Intel guy and decided to give it a shot. I had blue screen issues because of my NVME and the RGB software. Something so ridiculous that I have never seen before. Also got crashes from storage coming out of hibernate. I have an X570 board and a 3700x. I’ve never had these quirky issues with my Intel builds but I’ve had to spend days getting this AMD build going. Between skipping certain software installs, multiple failed bios updates that say they complete and then show raid drives in event viewer but no bios, hibernate crashes etc. almost feels like chipset issues. But it’s solid now, cleared cmos, reinstalled windows, disabled hibernate and skipped rgb software except icue.
WHat kind of NVME issues? I never enable hibernate on any PC I build.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Jan 20, 2014
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Here is another twist:

Origin refuses to run. I tried installing it on my 2TB but it hangs. Completely uninstalled using Glary and reinstalled it on my main SSD and it still hangs.

Steam had no issues. Was able to download a game and restore a game from backup. Both started up with no issues.
 
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Durask

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Feb 6, 2012
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Weird software errors, iMHO are usually

1. Bad motherboard
2. Bad RAM

Check your motherboard for any leaking capacitors for starters.
Probably easier to swap RAM so I would start with that.

Personal anecdote: recently had issues with an AMD PC.

Case #1 - worked OK with case open, if I close the case, failure to boot (can't find boot drive). Looked hard for any potential short, etc, nothing.
Tried several SSDs, same story.
Had to put it in a new case.
Later I put an Intel build into the old case and no issues.
 

Compsiox

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Jul 6, 2014
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Yeah figuring out issues that pop up every now and then can be a huge pain in the ass.

If you can put up with stuttering and fps drops you probably enjoy PC gaming a lot more.
 

PhoenixTank

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Too late to roll back to Win10 1909? Or rather I assume you can't because of the fresh download/install? Pretty sure I have the 1909 iso lying around somewhere if MS have disabled the download link.
I do suspect an underlying issue with hardware somewhere, though. You might check for a firmware updates for those SSDs, but I'd be ruling them out with an install to one of those HDDs instead.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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OK guys I have something that might be helpful. I mentioned that my main OS drive is a Sabrent PCI Express 4.0 SSD. For some reason when it’s placed in slot 1, the computer won’t even post. The fan just speeds up and slows down, but no posting.

I put my old Samsung SSD 250 GB 3.0 and it booted just fine since it actually had my old OS installed on it.
 
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wordslaughter

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Apr 17, 2019
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Consoles can break too.

At least with your PC you can totally figure out what's wrong with it and replace JUST that part.

As was already recommended, remove everything you don't need. One stick of RAM, one boot drive and then reinstall Windows again. If that doesn't work, then swap out the drive and install Windows again. If that works then you know it was just a faulty SSD. If you still have the same problem then you know your SSD wasn't the issue. Just keep adding back parts until you start having problems. Very much sounds like a faulty SSD to me, but it's too early to say for sure.

Agree that it can be a frustrating process of elimination, but remember that taking it into your local PC shop is an option if you can't be bothered.

You'll feel a LOT better when you find out exactly what's wrong (y)
 
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JohnnyFootball

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For the time being I am going to experiment with keeping my old Samsung SSD installed as my main OS, since the drive hasnt been used in over 9 months a lot will need updating, but I should be able to see how things work.

It's entirely possible that Sabrent drive may not be completely compatible with my motherboard. I am pretty sure the M2_1 slot is connected to the CPU lanes and the M2_2 where my 4.0 was originally connected to is part of the chipset. It's difficult to understand how tgar would be an issue, but sooner I can unlock this puzzle, the better.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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As always with PC fault finding, process of elimination. Start small and focused then add or remove things as you go and one by one. Generally I'd say one of three things in your case, CPU heat, motherboard or memory dodgy intermittently. If you have spare parts or funds swap out the mobo and/or memory and test again. Memory settings and matching can be a big deal as well for build your own systems. I usually try to stick with the same manufacturers for parts e.g. motherboard and graphics card brand. Sometimes you also have a crappy power supply or have gone over your power budget and create problems such as these, check the power supply rating and add up your component usage if it's near the limit. I usually have a clean thumbstick boot drive to test with which helps eliminate things quickly.
 
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nkarafo

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Nov 30, 2012
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Usually, if there is an issue i can't diagnose, i pull out everything and keep only the bare minimum the PC needs in order to work:

Mobo
CPU
1 RAM stick
PSU

These four components are enough to show me the bios. Should be enough to figure out if the mobo or the RAM stick is the problem. After everything is OK, i just add the OS HDD/SSD component and test thoughtfully to see if the problem starts with that. Then add more stuff, check cables, etc. A very usual problem can be the RAM sticks. Sometimes they need to be re-installed, swap places, etc. SATA cables can cause problems, you should find that out using HD sentinel, it should report communication issues.
 
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Patterson

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At this point, I would leave the 4.0 nvme in slot one and remove all the other drives. Then boot into the bios and load bios defaults, (don’t even do the docp memory overclock - just keep everything stock) then check to see if the bios recognizes your 4.0 nvme. If so, see if it boots.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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At this point, I would leave the 4.0 nvme in slot one and remove all the other drives. Then boot into the bios and load bios defaults, (don’t even do the docp memory overclock - just keep everything stock) then check to see if the bios recognizes your 4.0 nvme. If so, see if it boots.
Thats what I was saying. The system will not even POST if the 4.0 NVME drive is in slot 1, which I believe is the M2 slot that runs off the CPU lanes. It's always been like that. When the 4.0 NVME M2 drive is in slot 2, it works fine, which is how it has been. Maybe that issue is manifesting itself in a weird way right now. I dunno. So, it's leading me to believe that there might be a compatability problem. I am going to experiment with my older Samsung SSD and see if I can diagnose it.
 
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You know, something similar happened to me some weeks ago, but with a laptop. It started crashing, then hanging, bluescreen, then it restarted on boot, then post only and finally no post.

Several things pointed out to a faulty ram stick but they worked ok on other laptops. The problem was the first ram slot, it had something broken so ram appeared as corrupted.

As you said in one of your last posts, the ssd works when not in slot 1 so, maybe the problems are relatable.

Maybe some of your motherboard's slots are faulty (not only the ssd ones) and make it look like the hardware connected to them it's at fault instead.

Hope this helps you.
 

JayK47

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The last 2 PCs I built took a long ass while to get them running properly. Both overheated. And now that it runs great, many games have issues and I spend hours per game to figure out why it is crashing. So I totally get it. You spend a premium and still have issues. And most of the time it is not obvious what is causing the problems.
 
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Patterson

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Thats what I was saying. The system will not even POST if the 4.0 NVME drive is in slot 1, which I believe is the M2 slot that runs off the CPU lanes. It's always been like that. When the 4.0 NVME M2 drive is in slot 2, it works fine, which is how it has been. Maybe that issue is manifesting itself in a weird way right now. I dunno. So, it's leading me to believe that there might be a compatability problem. I am going to experiment with my older Samsung SSD and see if I can diagnose it.
I know you said it doesn’t post but in the bios, does it see the drive at all. And have you loaded bios defaults to start with a baseline?
 

BadBurger

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System logs, and if they're not helpful, use WinDBG to analyze any dump file created. It's a pain in the butt but you can usually figure out what is causing bluescreens from the logs or debugging dumps.
 
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treemk

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My 2TB SSD might be going bad, after the reinstall it was having issues being accessed. I did a secure erase on this and tried to install Origin, but when it started downloading a game, it lead to the system hanging. Not freezing or bluescreening. I will test this more and see if I can repeat the results. I would mention that when I got my 4.0 512 SSD back in November I was using the top M2 drive for my OS SSD and the 2TB was in the bottom M2 drive. However, when I tried to put the new 4.0 SSD in the top M2 drive, it wouldn't work and I ended up having to put it in the bottom M2 and moved the 2TB to the top. Maybe it had something to do with being near the video card.
Have you run sfc and chkdsk?
 

JohnnyFootball

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Have you run sfc and chkdsk?
Yes, and it's looking more and more like the 2TB SSD may be defective. I downloaded Sabrents tool to check the firmware and it hanged. So I put the 4.0 SSD back into the M2_2 slot that it has always been in and the Sabrent software was able to analyze it. I've also been able to run Origin and install games on that SSD. So far. Nothing crazy Im seeing.
 
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treemk

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Yes, and it's looking more and more like the 2TB SSD may be defective. I downloaded Sabrents tool to check the firmware and it hanged. So I put the 4.0 SSD back into the M2_2 slot that it has always been in and the Sabrent software was able to analyze it. I've also been able to run Origin and install games on that SSD. So far. Nothing crazy Im seeing.
Cool, hope you get it sorted out. As you probably know its not if but when SSDs go bad. If those 2 commands are not able to repair then it usually indicates a problem with the disk itself or a need to reinstall the OS.
 

Max_Po

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Mar 1, 2015
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See this is why I don't buy "Sabrent " or other lower quality bullshit brands.

Always get a better smaller for OS....

I am glad its working at least...
 
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TeezzyD

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So weird to open up a thread like thus and actually have the concern be legitimate. Anything I could advise looks like it's already been attempted or suggested.

Good luck with the fix. If not, I look forward to seeing ya on #teamxbox PC brethren.
 
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Kenpachii

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From what it sounds like its either.

1) bad psu
2) bad motherboard
3) bad memory
4) bad SSD drive
5) bad vram modules on your GPU.

Diagnose them all, specially psu/motherboard/memory are obnoxious hard to figure out if you have limited hardware. Good part is you got lots of memory bars so u can test shit which makes it easy.

This is what i would do.

0) lissen if your PSU ( powersupply ) is giving off weird noises when turned on ( if so return it or replace it), also look if its a quality one and capable to power all parts with stable outputs ( not some golden piece of junk 800w 50 bucks powersupply that only gives 550 at peaks and sits at 400 all day long after it ). check websites what your psu does. ( if its a shitty one highly recommend to ditch it and buy a quality grade one ).
1) check if your motherboard supports all your parts and is compatible.
2) disconnect everything from your motherboard besides your CPU and cooler and connect your screen towards your onboard GPU ( if it even has one ).
3) Put 2 memory modules into the motherboard, read the manual on where to place them aka not right next to eachother. ( also check if your motherboard supports those memory modules to start with, u can do that on there website or google if people have issue's with the sticks for your motherboard )
4) Place your main OS nvme drive into the motherboard, read the manual which slot it has to go and check online if your nvme drive is supported by your motherboard or if it needs a bios update ( motherboard etc )
5) remove the motherboard battery, boot to bios everything will be reset most likely. Reboot another time into the bios then shut pc down. Place battery in there again and do the same thing.
6) Go into the fresh bios now, look if your SSD is detected and your memory, leave everything stock besides boot up device if needed.
7) format your SSD by removing all partitions on it and remake them + then format it and install windows on it.
8) Use your PC and see if u got any problems. Reboot your PC a few times and completely shut it down and boot it up to see if everything works well.

Now check if everything works and keep adding hardware like GPU next and use it for a few days and see if there are no issue's. then add more and more hardware until problems start to arrive again and u know what the issue is.

However if it doesn't work well at point 8 do the following:

9) If it doesn't work well, u shut the PC down, remove the memory and replace it with your other 2 sticks.
10) If it still has issue's, u shut the pc down again, place the 2 memory sticks in the left over slots and test it again
11) if it still has issue's, u replace those 2 memory sticks with your older memory sticks u removed earlier on.
12) if you still encounter issue's, remove your SSD and replace it with your other SSD that u got and also completely format like u did before and see if issue persist. ( also check if your ssd is supported by your motherboard etc)
13) if you still have issue's, u remove the SSD and put it into another slot and see if it works ( could be a bad nvme drive slot on your motherboard ), and switch SSD's after it in that slot and see results etc.
14) if problems still exist update your bios of your motherboard
15)If problems still exist, most likely your motherboard is a dud, or your CPU has issue, honestly unless u mishandled the CPU most of the time these things don't die that hard and if they do its GG completely. So probably still motherboard.
16) time to rma it or buy a new one.

At this point u know exactly what is a dud and what is not.

Have fun.
 
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Kenpachii

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Mar 23, 2018
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Weird software errors, iMHO are usually

1. Bad motherboard
2. Bad RAM

Check your motherboard for any leaking capacitors for starters.
Probably easier to swap RAM so I would start with that.

Personal anecdote: recently had issues with an AMD PC.

Case #1 - worked OK with case open, if I close the case, failure to boot (can't find boot drive). Looked hard for any potential short, etc, nothing.
Tried several SSDs, same story.
Had to put it in a new case.
Later I put an Intel build into the old case and no issues.
Could be overheating on vrms on the motherboard. Some motherboards are utter shit designed.
 
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Gamerguy84

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Curiosity did you get on Sabrent and register your drives so that it extends your warranty. Took mine from 1 to 5 years.
 

Esca

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I feel ya op. As I've gotten older and my circumstances have changed I find myself playing consoles more and more.

I love pc gaming but sometimes it really is frustrating even when you know what your doing
 
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JohnnyFootball

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There is still the issue of why the
I know you said it doesn’t post but in the bios, does it see the drive at all. And have you loaded bios defaults to start with a baseline?
The computer will not boot at all with the 4.0 drive installed in slot 1. I can't even get to the BIOS to make that determination. If the 4.0 drive is installed in slot 1. All that happens when I press the button on the motherboard is all the lights will come on, and the fans will just speed up and slow down. Nothing appears on the screen. That issues doesn't exist when it is installed in slot 2. It boots and reads just fine.
 

Grinchy

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This is a very simplified suggestion, but since you mentioned it's only when using the internet, I have noticed issues with my PC freezing while using Chrome and having hardware acceleration turned on. It just does not like my GPU, which is also an AMD with their shitty driver software.
 

Rodolink

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sucks.
my laptop takes 30min to startup, plus 30 min to open unity, firefox, visual s. and source tree.
so whenever i want to work on a personal project i need at least an hr im advance. and for playing games i need to close any other thing open and a fresh reboot otherwise I get a bug where the keyboard gets locked. >.<
 

JohnnyFootball

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Im calling it a night. So far, my 2TB M2 drive is no longer in my system and will remain out of it for the time being.

Right now I have put my Samsung 250 GB M2 drive in Slot 1 and I currently have the OS running off of that. The 4.0 512 GB M2 has been put back in slot 2 and the system for the most part appears to be working without issue. I will keep this configuration going for a few days and see what happens.

The thing that I am still bothered by is not being able to figure out why the 4.0 512 Sabrent SSD will not get the system to boot/post if it is installed in slot 1. That makes no sense and that very much bothers me.

I will keep you posted.
 

DemonCleaner

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might be GPU acceleration of the used browser. try another one and check if it still happens. or try setting back GPU driver version a few itterations.
 

Patterson

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There is still the issue of why the

The computer will not boot at all with the 4.0 drive installed in slot 1. I can't even get to the BIOS to make that determination. If the 4.0 drive is installed in slot 1. All that happens when I press the button on the motherboard is all the lights will come on, and the fans will just speed up and slow down. Nothing appears on the screen. That issues doesn't exist when it is installed in slot 2. It boots and reads just fine.
Man that is so weird. I’ve never heard of not being able to get into the bios like that. I don’t know if you mentioned it already but maybe Asus might have a bios update to support certain m.2 drives or something. Well good luck and I’d be curious if you find a resolution.

Btw, I also have a Asus Mobo (ROG Crosshair viii hero WiFi x570) and a Sabrient 4.0 m.2. (1 TB) and it works on either slot right out of the box.