The Future Of Dragon Age PAX Panel (More Dragon Age 3 Information) [Updated]

Oct 18, 2007
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I enjoyed playing DA2. Sure the game had faults, and it wasn't the same game as DA1, but I ejoyed the exprerience, and that is the only thing that matters to me.

Looking forward to buying DA3 on Origin.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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Aeana said:
That's what happens when you take a population of people with differing opinions who do not understand the concept of fluidity or subtlety in criticism and place them together. Someone who likes a game will get a little bit upset when someone calls the game "the worst game they've ever played," and likewise people who don't like the game will be confused when someone says they like it very much. Dragon Age 2, FF13, etc. discussions are always the same: people talking past each other, trying to get their opinion heard, and in doing so, it becomes more and more extreme each time. The constant back and forth of completely binary and absolute hyperbolic opinions is getting really old and prevents any sort of intelligent discourse.
Should be the 1st post of every ME, DA, FF, and any big budget game thread
 
Apr 24, 2011
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I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
 
Sep 14, 2007
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Last Hearth said:
I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
The problem isn't necessarily that other devs are making better RPGs than Bioware (even though that's certainly true), it's that Bioware isn't making RPGs as good as they used to and are obsessed with dumbing down mechanics to better fit a wider audience.
 
Apr 18, 2011
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Ysiadmihi said:
The problem isn't necessarily that other devs are making better RPGs than Bioware (even though that's certainly true), it's that Bioware isn't making RPGs as good as they used to and are obsessed with dumbing down mechanics to better fit a wider audience.
As good as they used to, or as good as they were when there wasn't anything on the market like them?
 
Last Hearth said:
I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
Does it matter? Dragon Age 2 isn't a good game to me or the many others that think so.

Stamping your foot and going "WELL START LISTING THINGS TO PROVE TO ME THAT YOU'RE CAPABLE OF JUDGING GAMES" is really goddamn childish.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Wow, it really doesn't sound like they are going to take their time with this. DA2 was a huge disappointment. They need to revamp, again. Its hard to say, but this seems like its not the best news for DAO fans..

To be clear, I dont mind DA2's concepts and changes, just how they were implemented.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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If anything it'll be interesting to see how few of these ideas and promises actually end up in the game that comes out.

It also doesn't really sound like they plan on making an actual ending to Hawke or any of his companion's stories as DLC. Which would be bad enough I guess, but considering the way the game just ends with no conclusion... now you probably have to wait for DA3 to see what happens to them, hopefully with cameos handled better than the DAO ones in DA2...
 
Apr 13, 2005
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bigboss370 said:
the need to improve the graphics. somehow DA2 was overall worse in that department than DA1, at least on PC, wasn't it?
They tried to fake having large crowds by the crowds looking like characters out of an N64 game. Most of the game was pretty solid graphically (though of course VERY repetitive).
 
Last Hearth said:
I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
Isn't it a part of the problem that Bioware was still making some of those awesome RPGs like, let's say, Dragon Age: Origins, then fucked it up by making DA2 which they so heavily defend as a step in the right direction for the series? But I like how you worded your statement so as to preemptively invalidate any one list someone might produce by setting some standards that will allow you to criticize anyone's decisions by simple means of comparison.
Better games than DA2? Not hard to find I'd say. Better RPG's? few, but there are some imo: TW2, Deus EX, Fallout NV, Divinity II, Skyrim seems like a contender right now, there might be others I have not played yet (I'd even add Alpha Protocol, which I ave played, but understandably one might consider it not such a good game). As for flawless games? Yeah, good luck with that...

I don't remember a single comment stating: "Hey Bioware, gee, I guess your games suck because now I am playing all these vastly superior games". It's been more like: "I don't like where Bioware is headed, least of all when they seem to be abandoning the potential that their own series had for some reasons I don't understand/I dislike". Is it unfair criticism?

Could it also be that there are few RPG devs right now (especially big teams) so every one of these titles lost to marketing strategies and focus groups hurts more and more? But yes, Bioware stole my girlfriend, that is why I am Oh so mad!
 
Feb 9, 2011
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It's a little early to be talking about DA3 isn't it? One of DA2's biggest flaws was that it seemed like priority number one was to finish the game up as fast as possible. If we get 2+ years of development AND BW going back to what made DA1 great, then I might give this series another chance.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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bigboss370 said:
the need to improve the graphics. somehow DA2 was overall worse in that department than DA1, at least on PC, wasn't it?

I'm pretty sure it was worse on both. I mean I guess the character models in DA2 were a bit more detailed than DA:O, but not by much. The environments were worse.

But NOBODY is asking about the real change that needs to happen in DA3. If I am in a wide open outdoor area with no trees or any overlay of any kind, if I have a group of giant spiders rappel down out of thin air, I'ma kidnap one of the bioware developers, tie that fucker down, and drop a barrel full of spiders (poisonous ones at that) on the motherfucker.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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JDAWGZZZ said:
It's a little early to be talking about DA3 isn't it? One of DA2's biggest flaws was that it seemed like priority number one was to finish the game up as fast as possible. If we get 2+ years of development AND BW going back to what made DA1 great, then I might give this series another chance.
Unless it's gonna be a launch window title for new Sony/MS consoles, it seems like early 2013 is the latest it'd come out.

truly101 said:
But NOBODY is asking about the real change that needs to happen in DA3. If I am in a wide open outdoor area with no trees or any overlay of any kind, if I have a group of giant spiders rappel down out of thin air, I'ma kidnap one of the bioware developers, tie that fucker down, and drop a barrel full of spiders (poisonous ones at that) on the motherfucker.
It's mentioned in the OP that they are going to do away with "another wave!!!". We'll see how that actually goes...
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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HadesGigas said:
Unless it's gonna be a launch window title for new Sony/MS consoles, it seems like early 2013 is the latest it'd come out.



It's mentioned in the OP that they are going to do away with "another wave!!!". We'll see how that actually goes...
I don't even care about the wave combat. I don't want to be an a damn mountaintop and be attacked by spiders that literally rappel down out of thin air. It reeks of awful lazy programming. If I see that shit, I'll know DA3 was designed to be a cash grab like DA2 was.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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DAII gets a lot of hate on Gaf. It really does. Dragon Age wasn't even that amazing. I see less hate for IW on gaf, at least people are willing to consider it a decent game. But with DAII, nope. With DAII it's apparently the worst game ever made. DAII was just another bad sequel out of hundreds of terrible sequels to good games.
 
Jan 16, 2011
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I think they reduced poly counts on characters in DA2 which is why in spite of some of the neater DX11 features, the game looked noticeably worse than DA1. Not to mention the heavily recycled backgrounds. Whether the art direction is worse is debatable though.

Honestly, the reason for my dislike for DA2 is purely due to the completely uninteresting story, the uninspired level design, and the huge waste of time that was Act 1. Act 1 sapped any enthusiasm I had for the game and curb stomped it to oblivion. Which is why I have yet to play the game past the beginning of Act 2. I just can't force myself to do it, and I've forced myself to beat some bad games in the past (Shinobi and Spider-Man the Movie on the PS2 among them).
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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AlimNassor said:
DAII gets a lot of hate on Gaf. It really does. Dragon Age wasn't even that amazing. I see less hate for IW on gaf, at least people are willing to consider it a decent game. But with DAII, nope. With DAII it's apparently the worst game ever made. DAII was just another bad sequel out of hundreds of terrible sequels to good games.
I don't think it can be understated just how lazy and uninspired DA2 is. Its not so much a bad sequel, lots of sequels choose directions that just don't work for the franchise in question, the game becomes a trainwreck because of it. I'd be a lot more forgiving on DA2 if that was the case. What seals DA2 for me is that it was obviously rushed to capitalize on an IP to boost 4th quarter earnings. Its the type of shit you expect out of Activision, not Bioware.
 
Apr 24, 2011
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The reason I ask for other games is that without it we don't have a basis for comparison.

Old games are not a good barometer, because the market has changed, the technology has changed, etc. The only realistic way to compare games is against other games that released around the same time, because that's what the developer of the game is competing against, his goal is to make a game that beats the competition.

To fail to see these, and criticize the game, is to compare the game against the standard of some abstract "ideal game", in which case of course the game is going to look like an abysmal failure. Because no game can live up to that standard.

And if you're going to tell me that Alpha Protocol is a better game than DA2, then I'm not sure what to say, except that I would have loved to have seen a thread on GAF about Alpha Protocol that puts that game through the grinder like DA2 was put through.
 
Apr 15, 2011
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truly101 said:
I don't think it can be understated just how lazy and uninspired DA2 is. Its not so much a bad sequel, lots of sequels choose directions that just don't work for the franchise in question, the game becomes a trainwreck because of it. I'd be a lot more forgiving on DA2 if that was the case. What seals DA2 for me is that it was obviously rushed to capitalize on an IP to boost 4th quarter earnings. Its the type of shit you expect out of Activision, not Bioware.
That, and I think Ion Storm has the excuse of being new to games designed with consoles in mind, and overestimated how much streamlining was actually necessary. Bioware got off to a great start with Knights of the Old Republic on Xbox and nailed it again with Mass Effect and even the console port of Dragon Age it seems, so they don't have as much excuse.

WanderingWind said:
DA2 = DMC2

Okay? Clear? We good here? Great. Dragon Age 2 fucking sucked.
I seriously hope that's also an indicator of how good DA3 will be in comparison.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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truly101 said:
I don't think it can be understated just how lazy and uninspired DA2 is. Its not so much a bad sequel, lots of sequels choose directions that just don't work for the franchise in question, the game becomes a trainwreck because of it. I'd be a lot more forgiving on DA2 if that was the case. What seals DA2 for me is that it was obviously rushed to capitalize on an IP to boost 4th quarter earnings. Its the type of shit you expect out of Activision, not Bioware.
I dunno. I've seen worse sequels. Like Fallout Brotherhood of Steel. Now that was downright bad. DAII to me just seems like another rushed cash-in sequel. *shrugs*
 
Jun 11, 2004
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Well, that sounds all well and good, but I think I'll wait for DA3 to hit 20 bucks before I pick it up. If it is roundly panned I might pick it up at all.

As for Origin stories or a set character, I personally would like multiple main protagonists - meaning multiple viewpoints ala Suikoden 3. I would think that would be a pretty sweet idea since I loved the concept in Suikoden 3 and would work quite well in a DA game, especially if they are making the game setting huge.
 
Last Hearth said:
I just have one question for the people on this thread who's hates Bioware as if Bioware stole their girlfriend and killed their dog, what are the awesome RPGs that you are playing that's much better and has none of the flaws, because I really would like to play these vastly superior games.
This wouldn't be a cheap fishing for mudslinging targets as a defense, would it? Nawwww...

Bioware's handling and output of DA and their PR team's spin of it is a trainwreck; it is night and day compared to the ME team. This shows no sign of abating, so DA3 is only a source of mirth for me for the trainwreck factor. Horseshit kills goodwill. Horseshit and average games kill it faster.
 
Apr 18, 2011
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truly101 said:
What seals DA2 for me is that it was obviously rushed to capitalize on an IP to boost 4th quarter earnings. Its the type of shit you expect out of Activision, not Bioware.
It was a rushed game, no doubt about it. Should they have taken more time? Sure. Is it lame that video games are now reliant on first quarter sales? Yes. But when people start talking about the financial aspect as if they have some sort of insight into that business' earnings and losses, that's what gets my goat.
 
Apr 4, 2011
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K.Jack said:
Graphically, DA:O does not touch a maxed out DX11 + HD texture DA2.
Those things don't matter when half of your game is covered with the same texture.






Yes the texture is "sharp", but the texturing is lazy. And this is just one example. The art style change was done to cut corners. Like most every other design decision in the game.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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ToyBroker said:
Sorry, I loved DA2 way more. I couldn't even play DA1 that much--first, it ran like shit. Secondly, combat felt boring. In DA2, the hack/slash style felt visceral and I enjoyed it. I loved jumping all over the place as a rogue.
Having played DA1 and loved it, and played DA2 I'd have to hate it. Mechanically it was exactly the same, it just looked flashier. I guess they figured people like flair and appearance more than mechanics :|
 
Last Hearth said:
The reason I ask for other games is that without it we don't have a basis for comparison.Old games are not a good barometer, because the market has changed, the technology has changed, etc. The only realistic way to compare games is against other games that released around the same time, because that's what the developer of the game is competing against, his goal is to make a game that beats the competition.
Sure we do. It is a sequel after all and one that was released not too long after the first one. What you are implying is that games like Uncharted 3, Batman AC and Dark Souls couldn't be compared against their predecessors either then and only to games released close to them. If you are going for the "it can only be compared to games in the same genre, i.e. party based real time action/strategy RPGs" well then, what can I say? DA2 can be compared to very few things then, really. If your "basis" is only "good games", well DA2 doesn't do well at all. Define "old games" then. Is DA:O old? Is TW1 old? I guess the ones I named are acceptable. Also, you can't really expect people to throw overboard certain expectations when the series was touted the "spiritual successor to BG". I understand they are flying away from that pretty swiftly.

To fail to see these, and criticize the game, is to compare the game against the standard of some abstract "ideal game", in which case of course the game is going to look like an abysmal failure. Because no game can live up to that standard.
Is anyone really comparing DA2 to some abstract ideal of a game? Care to point me there?
The game is criticized within itself, especially when some expectations were created around it (being a sequel of a successful game) and where many of the flaws mentioned are pretty jarring for a studio with a history such as Bioware's. People are not saying DA2 isn't Crysis 3 and it is a fallacy to imply there is some unattainable standard used to judge this and only this game.

And if you're going to tell me that Alpha Protocol is a better game than DA2, then I'm not sure what to say, except that I would have loved to have seen a thread on GAF about Alpha Protocol that puts that game through the grinder like DA2 was put through.
Well I did, and did not, but there is a difference. I say both games should be judged differently, and I guess is what many people do. I believe DA2 is put through the grinder much so than other games for a reason, one which not only involves the mere quality of the final product, but the mentality and discourse around it, the way that Bioware pushed preorders and cut them out just before any real reviews hit, the one where the release date wasn't set in benefit of the game, the one in which Bioware's representatives expressed their opinions and failed to admit the game's shortcomings for a very long time. Are these unique to this game? Maybe not, but certainly they can't all be judged the same.

I get you are trying to establish a false objective line of measurement for the game, in order to invalidate the much more emotional response, but I tell you, there is an emotional response for a reason that won't necessarily accommodate to the idea that because there are other games that suck more than DA2, the backlash for the game is unjustified.
 
Apr 18, 2011
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inky said:
Is anyone really comparing DA2 to some abstract ideal of a game? Care to point me there?
Not really comparing it to an abstraction as much as condemning it for not being the ideal BioWare game, more specifically the sequel everyone seemed to want or something.

There's plenty of that going around.

And it's nothing new, really.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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Bioware sets the bar -> people like it
Bioware lowers the bar -> people hate it
Bioware fumbles to fix what it broke while keeping it the same for the vocal minority -> well no one knows yet because technically they've never made a third game in a series (expacs don't count)

This is surprising how?
 
Aug 15, 2010
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Vaporak said:
This is how I feel, I am no longer the audience for Bioware's game. There's just nothing for me in Bioware's future.
If you really weren't interested in Bioware anymore, you probably would never have even opened this thread. You know, because you're not interested in DA3. But you have, so clearly there is something for you in Bioware's future. Complaining.

Of the two games, I can comfortably say I prefer DA2. Why? Because I don't think either game were particularly great. I'd probably rate them both around 6 or 7 out of 10, but DA2 didn't have mind numbingly boring dungeons so that's the one I lean towards.

Legacy, on the other hand, is the best thing that's come out of the series so far. If they really do build off of that for future DLC and DA3, I'll be very happy.