The Future Of Dragon Age PAX Panel (More Dragon Age 3 Information) [Updated]

Jan 16, 2011
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LiquidSolid said:
Of the two games, I can comfortably say I prefer DA2. Why? Because I don't think either game were particularly great. I'd probably rate them both around 6 or 7 out of 10, but DA2 didn't have mind numbingly boring dungeons so that's the one I lean towards.
Haha. Hahahaha. I'm sorry, but it did. Which is why I stopped playing after the first act. Copy and pasted dungeons is the exact definition of mind numbingly boring.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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While I don't really have any predictions/opinions on the quality of DA3, I find it humourous that so many people are extremely quick to write off the franchise after a misstep was made with the sequel. The history of gaming is filled with examples of great part 3s after disappointing/despised part 2s.

Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War

etc etc
 
May 22, 2010
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I think the environment and draw distance is a bit better in DA2, not to mention it ran better, artistically they both have their flaws, but I always thought modeling is much better in DAO, more polygons maybe? I just thought they had more details:

DAO NPC (maybe I had texture mods installed but the model is unaltered):


DAO playable character made using the toolset with cosmetic mods:


DA2 vanilla from the demo:


There were areas where they put in some tiny touches like fallen leaves, random kitten walking around towns for the environments in DAO, not sure about DA2 but the shit mountain in the demo was pretty terrible. Animation wise they were both really bad I think :lol
 
May 31, 2011
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I think DA2 actually had better combat mechanics (on Nightmare difficulty, at least) than DAO. Tanks were essential because mages and rogues could be staggered/interrupted/knocked down by any hit. It forced you to keep the enemies focused on your tank while positioning the rest of your party to best use their AoE and cone attacks. I also liked how the different abilities had different effects that could combine to create new, more powerful effects. I also thought Varric and Merill were pretty entertaining characters.

Unfortunately, none of this could save the game from its bland, heavily recycled environments and half-assed, wave-based combat encounters. The only things that Bioware should take from DA2 are the combat mechanics, Varric and Merill. Everything else should be drawn from DAO.
 
Mar 4, 2007
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Nirolak said:
Quick Note:
Mike Laidlaw has been promoted to Creative Director of the Dragon Age franchise, cementing him as the #2 person on the team. He is also now on Twitter.
Holy crap, I literally almost fell off my chair laughing at this. A seriously spontaneous reaction. *guffaw*

I have to admit that the "Peter Principle" sprang to mind almost immediately. After the miserable pile that was DA2 and this news I can easily and in good conscience write this franchise off for good.
 

Don

Member
Mar 23, 2008
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Some areas in Dragon Age 2 actually looked pretty good, but the overall it was very inconsistent compared to Origins. The Abandoned Thaigs especially were awful looking.

I'm still disappointed with how they handled the start of the game too. I remember hearing about how it would start with Hawke escaping from Lothering, but it turns out that you are on some ugly mountain. It would have been such a nice little touch if you could see some of the Lothering landmarks during that short sequence.
 
Dec 28, 2009
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Shuffle is fucking tried and true. They guy needs to eat a bag of shit. With graphics now shuffle does not need to be shuffling you can have dynamic battles of your character parrying or blocking or dodging every attack coming at him over the course of the round.

If he has ever played a decent pen and paper game, where the shuffle comes from. It never feels like a shuffle. You emote how you duck under his blade and roll a critical hit and stab the guy through the bottom of his jaw in to his brain, pirouette away and use cleave to try attacking the warrior next to him only to miss your roll and be parried stuck in a battle for half a second until the turn is over, where everyone re rolls to see who hits gets hit and parries and cleaves or casts. D&D rounds are only 3-6 seconds in real time. Where level 20 can attack 5 times within that frame (3 for rouge and 2 for mages for melee).

CDP Red should make a tactical team game in the witcher universe. No more of this shit.
 
May 3, 2006
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kswiston said:
While I don't really have any predictions/opinions on the quality of DA3, I find it humourous that so many people are extremely quick to write off the franchise after a misstep was made with the sequel. The history of gaming is filled with examples of great part 3s after disappointing/despised part 2s.

Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War

etc etc
Zelda 2 being among them makes me sad. (It's one of the more divisive, though.)

The MGS2 hate has died down quite a bit.
 
May 13, 2007
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Would it kill them to let us change their appearance? I mean, that is what the fanbase wants. Why does the video game industry always have to halfass everything when they try to fix something. You want customizable armor back? Ok, but you can't see the changes like we used to do... Seriously, its kind of getting ridiculous how oblivious developers can be.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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Synless said:
Would it kill them to let us change their appearance? I mean, that is what the fanbase wants. Why does the video game industry always have to halfass everything when they try to fix something. You want customizable armor back? Ok, but you can't see the changes like we used to do... Seriously, its kind of getting ridiculous how oblivious developers can be.
Because they get more cosplay this way. Which is clearly the important part.
 
Synless said:
Would it kill them to let us change their appearance? I mean, that is what the fanbase wants. Why does the video game industry always have to halfass everything when they try to fix something. You want customizable armor back? Ok, but you can't see the changes like we used to do... Seriously, its kind of getting ridiculous how oblivious developers can be.
It's almost certainly because it takes more time to do that.
 
Jun 9, 2011
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Complistic said:
Those things don't matter when half of your game is covered with the same texture.

[pictures]

Yes the texture is "sharp", but the texturing is lazy. And this is just one example. The art style change was done to cut corners. Like most every other design decision in the game.
Yikes, yeah I forgot about those. What the hell is that even supposed to be? It's like trying to make stucco look like plywood, or plywood like stucco, and achieving neither.
 
Jul 6, 2011
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This...sounds good.

Like most people here, I was disappointed with DAII's quality. Unlike most people here, I was able to enjoy it despite its many, varied faults. As someone who is still in love with Dragon Age and genuinely wants to see Thedas delivered out of chaos, I can say that if Bioware makes good on their promises for DAIII (and that's a big if), then I'm on board.

I believe certain elements from DAII (i.e. characterization, story-telling, certain combat mechanics) are worthy of merit, and I'd like to see them implemented in a more traditional, Origins-style way. I've grown wary of Bioware in recent years, but I won't let that trepidation prevent me from enjoying a good game. It's just that...I'll probably read more user-reviews in the future.
 

Don

Member
Mar 23, 2008
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I might be alone here but I did kind of like the DA2 companions having unique armour sets. In Origins I never changed Morrigan's default robes because I didn't like how she looked in anything else.

The problem with this in DA2 though was that you would find a lot of armour pieces for the other two classes that you weren't playing as and couldn't do anything except sell. The new system sound fine to me as seems to address the issues I had with the two games, but I can definitely understand if other people won't be happy with it.
 
Nov 7, 2009
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Don said:
I might be alone here but I did kind of like the DA2 companions having unique armour sets. In Origins I never changed Morrigan's default robes because I didn't like how she looked in anything else.

The problem with this in DA2 though was that you would find a lot of armour pieces for the other two classes that you weren't playing as and couldn't do anything except sell. The new system sound fine to me as seems to address the issues I had with the two games, but I can definitely understand if other people won't be happy with it.
This is me as well.

I much rather have individual armor sets to really make each character unique.
 
Jul 6, 2011
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Don said:
I might be alone here but I did kind of like the DA2 companions having unique armour sets. In Origins I never changed Morrigan's default robes because I didn't like how she looked in anything else.

The problem with this in DA2 though was that you would find a lot of armour pieces for the other two classes that you weren't playing as and couldn't do anything except sell. The new system sound fine to me as seems to address the issues I had with the two games, but I can definitely understand if other people won't be happy with it.
Hah, agreed. some of my Origins characters would simply never change armor. Morrigan looks silly in anything other than her witch's robes. Alistair looks particularly dashing in Splintmail. Sten looks tiny in anything but massive armor.

While mixing and matching your armor in Origins was fun, there wasn't really enough variety in the equipment to keep things fresh. I, too, preferred the much more distinct appearance of the DAII party members. If we can have distinct appearances as well as a purpose for all the useless armor we find, it's sort of the best of both worlds, isn't it?
 
Apr 1, 2011
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White Man said:
What's shuffling? That's a new rpg term for me and it's rough to meaningfully google it.
It's related to DAO. When you character moved, he quite literally shuffled in position. It was slow, tedious and frustrating to watch. They went overboard with DAII where you character was rolling around and jumping like crazy but it's was a try to fix the shuffling.
 
White Man said:
What's shuffling? That's a new rpg term for me and it's rough to meaningfully google it.
His favored example was how in Dragon Age 1, after your warrior shield bashed and enemy, the warrior would spend so much time getting into position to attack again that they could only get off one hit before the enemy got off the floor.

So in Dragon Age 2, they basically removed the subtle turn structure and some of the animation vectors to allow you to attack and fire off moves more quickly.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Jun 7, 2004
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So DA:O is one of the highest selling games in Biowares history, Laidlaw helps drag DA2 into a bloody disaster and gets *promoted*?

I guess the gaming industry really does want to emulate Hollywood where you can fail upwards.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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kswiston said:
While I don't really have any predictions/opinions on the quality of DA3, I find it humourous that so many people are extremely quick to write off the franchise after a misstep was made with the sequel. The history of gaming is filled with examples of great part 3s after disappointing/despised part 2s.

Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War

etc etc
there was a LONG delay between 2 & 3 for Deus Ex and as I remember for quite a few of those games the devs came out and said they screwed up

Bioware's come out and said that fans are wrong to dislike DA2, not exactly the best sign of them learning from mistakes

also you're probably thinking of FFVI when you include FFII on that list because the actual FFIII is not that great
 
Apr 15, 2011
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Frankly, if it's between static designs where I can't change armor to remain logical, or going with a JRPG-style abstraction where they always look the same but I can fully customize their equipment, I'd rather go with the latter. I'd like to be able to upgrade my characters and perhaps outfit them for specific scenarios, and at least in DA:O they all started to look kind of samey anyway.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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gvaz.notsleepytime.org
Synless said:
Would it kill them to let us change their appearance? I mean, that is what the fanbase wants. Why does the video game industry always have to halfass everything when they try to fix something. You want customizable armor back? Ok, but you can't see the changes like we used to do... Seriously, its kind of getting ridiculous how oblivious developers can be.
Because they're lazy, it shows in other games as well, they just don't want to put forth the effort to design a system that allows that.

Also if you pay attention, there's still shuffling in DA2 but the animations are all sped up so it doesn't take nearly as long. That's why I say it's mechanically the same but visually different.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Feb 4, 2009
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Eusis said:
Frankly, if it's between static designs where I can't change armor to remain logical, or going with a JRPG-style abstraction where they always look the same but I can fully customize their equipment, I'd rather go with the latter. I'd like to be able to upgrade my characters and perhaps outfit them for specific scenarios, and at least in DA:O they all started to look kind of samey anyway.
Well, it's not just between those two choices, so....
 
Sep 16, 2007
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Sundridge, Canada
So...you can change the way the other people in your party look, but it has nothing to do with the gear they are using.

I understand...it probably takes effort desiging assets(read: gear) to look slightly different on all the different character models. It probably takes effort to ensure that the different looking characters in their different looking gear during in game cut scenes actually show up properly.

It just seems...lazy?

Is that it? Is lazy even the right word to describe this?

Bioware, "Hey guys! We get it! We really do! (Even though we don't...) "
 
Apr 15, 2011
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WanderingWind said:
Well, it's not just between those two choices, so....
True, but personally I'm kind of hoping they go with two or three new designs per character as you get the right sets of equipment (probably through quests related to them) that'll stick so you'd still get that sense of progression but they don't worry about "one size fits all" design.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Moaradin said:
Ok. SWTOR allows customization on companions and there is a lot more gear in the game than DA. What the hell is going on with the DA team, seriously?
Decreed 2 year dev cycles for games that contain a lot of detail and normally take a very long time to make.
 
Sep 16, 2007
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Sundridge, Canada
kswiston said:
While I don't really have any predictions/opinions on the quality of DA3, I find it humourous that so many people are extremely quick to write off the franchise after a misstep was made with the sequel. The history of gaming is filled with examples of great part 3s after disappointing/despised part 2s.

Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War

etc etc

DA II wasn't a misstep. It was a 180 degree turn but not before Bioware gave the middle finger to long term Bioware RPG players/fans.

The best part was the spin that came after with various interviews, review manipulation, and the whole, "Yeah...we can understand that some of our fans might have thought we were giving them the finger, but really, we were just telling them that they were No. #1...really!"
 
Jun 11, 2004
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Gvaz said:
Because they're lazy, it shows in other games as well, they just don't want to put forth the effort to design a system that allows that.

Also if you pay attention, there's still shuffling in DA2 but the animations are all sped up so it doesn't take nearly as long. That's why I say it's mechanically the same but visually different.
eh, I prefer what they are saying they are doing in DA3. I want complete customization, but I also wan't my characters to have a specific, unique look to them - and if its ass, be able to change it. I dislike having all my characters in generic armor 2. I just find it rather boring.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Gonaria said:
eh, I prefer what they are saying they are doing in DA3. I want complete customization, but I also wan't my characters to have a specific, unique look to them - and if its ass, be able to change it. I dislike having all my characters in generic armor 2. I just find it rather boring.
Both would be possible if they created assets unique to each character. But again, that's hard, expensive, and time consuming, which are all dirty words at Bioware.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Feb 20, 2007
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HP_Wuvcraft said:
It was a rushed game, no doubt about it. Should they have taken more time? Sure. Is it lame that video games are now reliant on first quarter sales? Yes. But when people start talking about the financial aspect as if they have some sort of insight into that business' earnings and losses, that's what gets my goat.
I don't profess to be some gaming industry insider either, but its common knowledge at this point that March is the last month of the fiscal year for game publishers, thats why you're seeing more big titles come out in that time frame. DA:O was successful, DA2 was highly anticipated. More sales equal higher fourth quarter earnings which mean higher earnings for fiscal year 2010. DA2 was positioned as a March release to boost earnings, its abundantly clear that many corners were cut to make the date. If DA2 is developed properly, it doesn't make that date. This really isn't tinfoil hat territory.
 
Jun 11, 2004
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DaBuddaDa said:
Both would be possible if they created assets unique to each character. But again, that's hard, expensive, and time consuming, which are all dirty words at Bioware.
True, but that just sounds like a huge gigantic pain. I mean, how would drops work if each item is unique to each character? You'd basically have to increase the drop rate of items a ton and drop more items from each kill as well.

Now, if you only had like 3 characters to outfit then that would be fine, but I dont want only 3 characters. And 8 characters, each with a unique drop, each critter dropping a ton of items and more items to boot would just start to annoy me. Found an awesome pair of boots? Well, too bad its for character C, and you don't use character C cause he is an annoying little prat. Better luck next time
 
May 6, 2009
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Gonaria said:
True, but that just sounds like a huge gigantic pain. I mean, how would drops work if each item is unique to each character? You'd basically have to increase the drop rate of items a ton and drop more items from each kill as well.

Now, if you only had like 3 characters to outfit then that would be fine, but I dont want only 3 characters. And 8 characters, each with a unique drop, each critter dropping a ton of items and more items to boot would just start to annoy me. Found an awesome pair of boots? Well, too bad its for character C, and you don't use character C cause he is an annoying little prat. Better luck next time
Just make each armor set have a unique model.
 
May 21, 2010
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4) On DA3 Premise – Dragon Age: Origins was about saving Ferelden from the Blight, whereas Dragon Age 2 was all about creating the conflict that fuels DA3. It was mentioned that DA2 was “the big setup” with the goal of the third game being “saving the world from…. itself”.
Hopefully the "saving the world from itself" premise does not include yet another contrived evil/villain who exists to send the player to 4 quest hubs before the final confrontation. I liked Irenicus, but after Malak, The Reapers, The Archdemon, etc., I wouldn't mind if Bioware gave their epic-style stories a brief rest for a more personal tale. I recognize that DA 2 attempted such a feat, only to fail spectacularly when compared to other character-driven plots like MoTB and Torment, but I'd like them to have another go at it with DA 3.