• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

The GBA was basically SNES2 and the pinnacle of 2D game design - change my mind

stranno

Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,575
1,899
500
León, Spain
And the switch is just a discless mobile Wii U. That's why almost everything from Wii U is ported on it and why games/features don't have that leap of improvement most consoles have from the next, because its not the next, just redesigned.
WiiU has nothing to do with Switch. Switch is a custom Nvidia ARM hardware. WiiU is more or less a multi-core Wii (PPC) + AMD GPU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DT MEDIA
Jan 29, 2019
1,367
888
310
Uh, making the arcade picture use smooth linear filtering while GBA images use nearest pixel filtering is misleading AF.
The image shows how little details the GBA version of MK ultimate has compared to the original version, it lacks both details and colors compared to the original version, yet it looks pretty good for a GBA game.

No amount of filtering will change that - the GBA is not close to be the Pinnacle of 2d gaming in any way shape or form, it never was.

As for the strong library, I assume the argument could be made (you just did) - but as someone who fell pray to the hype back then and bought the Advance Wars bundle with some zelda game, a metroid game, arguably some of the best titles on the machine. Yet the best time I had was with Wario Ware inc. (yes Wario ware, a true portable game). For the rest, as far as I am concerned its 2d games library isn't up to par with the 32-bit machines (neither the PSX, nor the Saturn), or even any of the 16-bit machines (Gensis, SNES - even the TG-16, especially with the CD add-on).

But this is not the question the question is about design;
The GBA was basically SNES2 and the pinnacle of 2D game design - change my mind
That's a lot easier, the GBA is not even as interesting as some machines released back in the 80s, especially if you consider arcade hardware.

There is no reason to think that the GBA was the pinnacle of 2D games design, or even one of the top 2D games system, even the SNES games that were ported to it had to have some cuts in resolution (but they had less slow downs).

None of the games below could be ported to the GBA withoutserious cuts in colors and/or resolution (both essentially means a loss of details).

Be warned there are no Nintendo games in there.

ARCADE TITLES:

1988 - Altered Beast Arcade


1992 - Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder (arcade)


1989 R-Type 2 (Arcade)


SOME CONSOLE GAMES

2000 Guilty Gear X (DreamCast)


1992 - Thunder Force IV (Sega Genesis)


1993 - Lords of Thunder (TurboDuo)


1994? - Castle Vania: Rondo of blood (Turbo Duo Japan)


Nanatsu Kaze no (Sega Saturn)


Castlevania SOTN (PSX)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DT MEDIA
Jan 29, 2019
1,367
888
310
And the gba has an lcd screen, doesn't mean that its not very similar to the snes.
It has very different hardware inside - They have nothing in common at all, different CPU architecture, no sound processing, more RAM on the GBA, the graphics processor has nothing to do with whatever is in the SNES.

The GBA has an old ARM CPU, so in a sense it's closer to your phone or the Switch than the SNES or the Wii (stretch, but the argument could be made while we are in this discussion)
 

Voost Kain

Daily Mail headline writer
Jun 6, 2015
1,839
660
660
SNES had no sprite scaling capabilities (unless you used the superfx chip to do it via software). It had to simulate sprite scaling the same way every previous system did, multiple sized versions of the same sprite that were displayed depending on the distance (and it usually wasn't many levels of pre scaled sprites). It only could scale and rotate backgrounds. Some games used that background layer to be a single sprite (a boss usually) and built the level with sprites but the background was usually black.
You didn't need the SuperFX, the only thing you needed to do was add support int he cartridge which many of the bigger companies who could afford it did for a few games.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Jun 8, 2004
17,115
407
1,660
43
Canada
You didn't need the SuperFX, the only thing you needed to do was add support int he cartridge which many of the bigger companies who could afford it did for a few games.
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
4,908
1,625
560
WiiU has nothing to do with Switch. Switch is a custom Nvidia ARM hardware. WiiU is more or less a multi-core Wii (PPC) + AMD GPU.
People actually play games, not hardware. In terms of output, what you actually see and play on Switch is not worlds apart from the Wii U. It is pretty close. Pretty much the same "jump" from Gamecube to Wii.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DT MEDIA

sunnysideup

Member
Nov 11, 2018
67
70
190
ra where everything was low poly 3D assets saved as low resolution bitmaps. Basically a lot of games looked like Killer Instinct only uglier. To make matters worse, people were really into using GBA scaling effects in place of actual 2D animation, so sprites are constantly being spun and rotated, and it looks like complete shit because the resolution's so low and there's aliasing up the ass.
This is my opinion as well. A lot of gba games try to get away from proper handpixeling and animation, since its so time consuming. Instead they use scaling instead of traditional animation, photoshopped/prerendered/digitized instead of handpixeling.

It has not aged well for the most part. Just compare gunstar hero(md) with super gunstar heroes(gba).



One is butt ugly.



The general aesthetic of a gba is lower than old consoles and even the original gb(c).
 

RealGassy

Member
Sep 22, 2019
121
126
195
This is my opinion as well. A lot of gba games try to get away from proper handpixeling and animation, since its so time consuming. Instead they use scaling instead of traditional animation, photoshopped/prerendered/digitized instead of handpixeling.

It has not aged well for the most part. Just compare gunstar hero(md) with super gunstar heroes(gba).



One is butt ugly.



The general aesthetic of a gba is lower than old consoles and even the original gb(c).
If you're making an argument at least use proper images and videos to demonstrate your point.
What you have instead is a MD video that is shot retaining pixelated graphics (nearest-neighbor interpolation),
while the GBA video is obviously filmed using one of the ugly pixel-art scaling algorithms commonly used in emulators.
 
Last edited:

marquimvfs

Member
Jul 25, 2014
73
66
375
30
Brazil
Be warned there are no Nintendo games in there.
I see no NeoGeo games here, sacrilege!
MK64: Hey! You're forgetting me! Does anyone remember me?
That's easily the second worst. The SNES game hasn't aged all that well, either. The rest are all really good.
But MK64 is the second best! (The most fun battle in the series, easily)

On topic. For me, the GBA was no pinnacle at anything, just the development scene was more mature and capable of overcome the system's deficiencies and bottlenecks. Every indie that programs games for SNES and Mega Drive nowadays is cabaple of better results than most of what we saw during the system's lifespan.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: alabtrosMyster

64bitmodels

Neo Member
Jul 25, 2019
43
23
100
That's easily the second worst. The SNES game hasn't aged all that well, either. The rest are all really good.
Yeah because clunky controls and shitty graphics vs good controls and colorful graphics and somehow the first one wins..
Like fuck that, even if the tracks are more imaginative than the GBA ones it doesn't do shit since the game is horrible when it comes to control and graphics. I hate how people say "it's not that bad" or "the battle mode is good". Like you dont have to appreciate a turd because it's made by nintendo
 

Bakkus

Member
Oct 12, 2014
1,973
343
465
24
Norway
Yeah because clunky controls and shitty graphics vs good controls and colorful graphics and somehow the first one wins..
Like fuck that, even if the tracks are more imaginative than the GBA ones it doesn't do shit since the game is horrible when it comes to control and graphics. I hate how people say "it's not that bad" or "the battle mode is good". Like you dont have to appreciate a turd because it's made by nintendo
You thought the GBA Mario Kart controlled well? That's what was the dealbreaker for me and everyone else who doesn't like the gane.
 

lyan

Member
May 21, 2017
112
63
210
In terms of 2d game design I agree, while there are plenty of classics on the SNES its catalog as a whole, does feel more, naturally, experimental than how mechanically mature the games are on the GBA, a lot of them still holds up perfectly well today, bar the graphics and resolution.
 

64bitmodels

Neo Member
Jul 25, 2019
43
23
100
You thought the GBA Mario Kart controlled well? That's what was the dealbreaker for me and everyone else who doesn't like the gane.
Lmao so hilarious
"Doesn't control well" my ass
It certainly plays better than mk64
How the hell does it not control well? I played the game and while it might be slightly slippery it was on point and it was certainly better than the slip and slide fest of 64
 

Bakkus

Member
Oct 12, 2014
1,973
343
465
24
Norway
Lmao so hilarious
"Doesn't control well" my ass
It certainly plays better than mk64
How the hell does it not control well? I played the game and while it might be slightly slippery it was on point and it was certainly better than the slip and slide fest of 64
If the physics are sluggish, then the game most often controls badly by default.
 

Voost Kain

Daily Mail headline writer
Jun 6, 2015
1,839
660
660
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.
You forgot about the special stage in Strider.
 

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
8,257
329
1,225
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.
Not sprite scaling per se but the DSP chips were used for the math processing that went into the effect - used by Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
181
197
255
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.
Well, you could argue it's not really "sprite scaling" because it was done on BG tiles, but the DSP-2 chip in the SNES port of Dungeon Master could take in an Atari ST format bitmap, scale it and then chop it up into tiles ready to be written to VRAM complete with alpha masking. It might not actually be sprite scaling, but it did an impressive job of simulating it.
 

64bitmodels

Neo Member
Jul 25, 2019
43
23
100
This user has been removed from the thread. Adjust that signal to noise ratio, thank you.
I didn't have issues with the controls.

Also, nice attitude there buddy. Are you 12?
Yeah because saying fuck you to someone automatically makes you 12. i thought neogaf was supposed to be filled with internet
thugs and assholes but i guess there's now fragile snowflakes trying to act cool by calling everyone who opposes them 12
Yeah so what if super has a better resolution, no point in that if the physics and control are absolute hell
it's like having to choose between a bigass flashy car with a slowass clunky engine that breaks down fast and a small 2 seat one that has the fastest most effecient engine in the world.
like yeah the first one looks better but you can't fucking use it
 
Last edited:

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
13,671
3,389
930
Yeah because saying fuck you to someone automatically makes you 12. i thought neogaf was supposed to be filled with internet
thugs and assholes but i guess there's now fragile snowflakes trying to act cool by calling everyone who opposes them 12
Yeah so what if super has a better resolution, no point in that if the physics and control are absolute hell
it's like having to choose between a bigass flashy car with a slowass clunky engine that breaks down fast and a small 2 seat one that has the fastest most effecient engine in the world.
like yeah the first one looks better but you can't fucking use it
You need to stop taking whatever you are taking dude.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Jun 8, 2004
17,115
407
1,660
43
Canada
You forgot about the special stage in Strider.
There was no Strider game on the SNES. And certainly no scaling in the NES or Genesis versions of Strider.

diffusionx said:
Not sprite scaling per se but the DSP chips were used for the math processing that went into the effect - used by Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.
Yeah, they were used to enhance mode 7. There were a few chips to enhance functions on the SNES, but nothing added sprite scaling except for the Super FX in Yoshi's Island. And even then, it was just a more powerful CPU added to the SNES that was fast enough to do sprite scaling and manipulation in software.
 
Last edited: