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The GBA was basically SNES2 and the pinnacle of 2D game design - change my mind

And the switch is just a discless mobile Wii U. That's why almost everything from Wii U is ported on it and why games/features don't have that leap of improvement most consoles have from the next, because its not the next, just redesigned.
 
Uh, making the arcade picture use smooth linear filtering while GBA images use nearest pixel filtering is misleading AF.
The image shows how little details the GBA version of MK ultimate has compared to the original version, it lacks both details and colors compared to the original version, yet it looks pretty good for a GBA game.

No amount of filtering will change that - the GBA is not close to be the Pinnacle of 2d gaming in any way shape or form, it never was.

As for the strong library, I assume the argument could be made (you just did) - but as someone who fell pray to the hype back then and bought the Advance Wars bundle with some zelda game, a metroid game, arguably some of the best titles on the machine. Yet the best time I had was with Wario Ware inc. (yes Wario ware, a true portable game). For the rest, as far as I am concerned its 2d games library isn't up to par with the 32-bit machines (neither the PSX, nor the Saturn), or even any of the 16-bit machines (Gensis, SNES - even the TG-16, especially with the CD add-on).

But this is not the question the question is about design;
The GBA was basically SNES2 and the pinnacle of 2D game design - change my mind

That's a lot easier, the GBA is not even as interesting as some machines released back in the 80s, especially if you consider arcade hardware.

There is no reason to think that the GBA was the pinnacle of 2D games design, or even one of the top 2D games system, even the SNES games that were ported to it had to have some cuts in resolution (but they had less slow downs).

None of the games below could be ported to the GBA withoutserious cuts in colors and/or resolution (both essentially means a loss of details).

Be warned there are no Nintendo games in there.

ARCADE TITLES:

1988 - Altered Beast Arcade
maxresdefault.jpg


1992 - Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder (arcade)
Golden_Axe-_The_Revenge_of_Death_Adder_-_1992_-_Sega.jpg


1989 R-Type 2 (Arcade)
35288a613747dbe733d84d0cd7fde675.gif


SOME CONSOLE GAMES

2000 Guilty Gear X (DreamCast)
ggx-dreamcast-screen.jpg


1992 - Thunder Force IV (Sega Genesis)
sega-ages-lightening-force-3.jpg


1993 - Lords of Thunder (TurboDuo)
screenshotLoT2.png


1994? - Castle Vania: Rondo of blood (Turbo Duo Japan)
draculaxtgcd06.png


Nanatsu Kaze no (Sega Saturn)
T-35501G_33,,Sega-Saturn-Screenshot-33-Nanatsu-Kaze-no-Shima-Monogatari-JPN.jpg


Castlevania SOTN (PSX)
new-extra9.png
 
And the gba has an lcd screen, doesn't mean that its not very similar to the snes.
It has very different hardware inside - They have nothing in common at all, different CPU architecture, no sound processing, more RAM on the GBA, the graphics processor has nothing to do with whatever is in the SNES.

The GBA has an old ARM CPU, so in a sense it's closer to your phone or the Switch than the SNES or the Wii (stretch, but the argument could be made while we are in this discussion)
 
SNES had no sprite scaling capabilities (unless you used the superfx chip to do it via software). It had to simulate sprite scaling the same way every previous system did, multiple sized versions of the same sprite that were displayed depending on the distance (and it usually wasn't many levels of pre scaled sprites). It only could scale and rotate backgrounds. Some games used that background layer to be a single sprite (a boss usually) and built the level with sprites but the background was usually black.

You didn't need the SuperFX, the only thing you needed to do was add support int he cartridge which many of the bigger companies who could afford it did for a few games.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
You didn't need the SuperFX, the only thing you needed to do was add support int he cartridge which many of the bigger companies who could afford it did for a few games.

What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.
 

sunnysideup

Banned
ra where everything was low poly 3D assets saved as low resolution bitmaps. Basically a lot of games looked like Killer Instinct only uglier. To make matters worse, people were really into using GBA scaling effects in place of actual 2D animation, so sprites are constantly being spun and rotated, and it looks like complete shit because the resolution's so low and there's aliasing up the ass.

This is my opinion as well. A lot of gba games try to get away from proper handpixeling and animation, since its so time consuming. Instead they use scaling instead of traditional animation, photoshopped/prerendered/digitized instead of handpixeling.

It has not aged well for the most part. Just compare gunstar hero(md) with super gunstar heroes(gba).





One is butt ugly.



The general aesthetic of a gba is lower than old consoles and even the original gb(c).
 

RealGassy

Banned
This is my opinion as well. A lot of gba games try to get away from proper handpixeling and animation, since its so time consuming. Instead they use scaling instead of traditional animation, photoshopped/prerendered/digitized instead of handpixeling.

It has not aged well for the most part. Just compare gunstar hero(md) with super gunstar heroes(gba).





One is butt ugly.



The general aesthetic of a gba is lower than old consoles and even the original gb(c).

If you're making an argument at least use proper images and videos to demonstrate your point.
What you have instead is a MD video that is shot retaining pixelated graphics (nearest-neighbor interpolation),
while the GBA video is obviously filmed using one of the ugly pixel-art scaling algorithms commonly used in emulators.
 
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marquimvfs

Member
Be warned there are no Nintendo games in there.

I see no NeoGeo games here, sacrilege!
MK64: Hey! You're forgetting me! Does anyone remember me?
That's easily the second worst. The SNES game hasn't aged all that well, either. The rest are all really good.
But MK64 is the second best! (The most fun battle in the series, easily)

On topic. For me, the GBA was no pinnacle at anything, just the development scene was more mature and capable of overcome the system's deficiencies and bottlenecks. Every indie that programs games for SNES and Mega Drive nowadays is cabaple of better results than most of what we saw during the system's lifespan.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
That's easily the second worst. The SNES game hasn't aged all that well, either. The rest are all really good.
Yeah because clunky controls and shitty graphics vs good controls and colorful graphics and somehow the first one wins..
Like fuck that, even if the tracks are more imaginative than the GBA ones it doesn't do shit since the game is horrible when it comes to control and graphics. I hate how people say "it's not that bad" or "the battle mode is good". Like you dont have to appreciate a turd because it's made by nintendo
 

Bakkus

Member
Yeah because clunky controls and shitty graphics vs good controls and colorful graphics and somehow the first one wins..
Like fuck that, even if the tracks are more imaginative than the GBA ones it doesn't do shit since the game is horrible when it comes to control and graphics. I hate how people say "it's not that bad" or "the battle mode is good". Like you dont have to appreciate a turd because it's made by nintendo
You thought the GBA Mario Kart controlled well? That's what was the dealbreaker for me and everyone else who doesn't like the gane.
 

lyan

Member
In terms of 2d game design I agree, while there are plenty of classics on the SNES its catalog as a whole, does feel more, naturally, experimental than how mechanically mature the games are on the GBA, a lot of them still holds up perfectly well today, bar the graphics and resolution.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
You thought the GBA Mario Kart controlled well? That's what was the dealbreaker for me and everyone else who doesn't like the gane.
Lmao so hilarious
"Doesn't control well" my ass
It certainly plays better than mk64
How the hell does it not control well? I played the game and while it might be slightly slippery it was on point and it was certainly better than the slip and slide fest of 64
 

Bakkus

Member
Lmao so hilarious
"Doesn't control well" my ass
It certainly plays better than mk64
How the hell does it not control well? I played the game and while it might be slightly slippery it was on point and it was certainly better than the slip and slide fest of 64
If the physics are sluggish, then the game most often controls badly by default.
 
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.

You forgot about the special stage in Strider.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.

Not sprite scaling per se but the DSP chips were used for the math processing that went into the effect - used by Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.
 

Trimesh

Banned
What support? What special chip added sprite scaling to the SNES? Yoshi's Island is like the only game that had that kind of sprite manipulation (which had the SuperFX chip which did it all in software on that chip). Any other game just scaled/rotated one sprite that was actually just a mode 7 layer. There was the Capcom CX4 chip which was used in 2 games (megaman x 2 and 3) which has info saying it could rotate sprites, but it was only used for wireframe models and enhanced transparencies.

Well, you could argue it's not really "sprite scaling" because it was done on BG tiles, but the DSP-2 chip in the SNES port of Dungeon Master could take in an Atari ST format bitmap, scale it and then chop it up into tiles ready to be written to VRAM complete with alpha masking. It might not actually be sprite scaling, but it did an impressive job of simulating it.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
This user has been removed from the thread. Adjust that signal to noise ratio, thank you.
I didn't have issues with the controls.

Also, nice attitude there buddy. Are you 12?
Yeah because saying fuck you to someone automatically makes you 12. i thought neogaf was supposed to be filled with internet
thugs and assholes but i guess there's now fragile snowflakes trying to act cool by calling everyone who opposes them 12
Yeah so what if super has a better resolution, no point in that if the physics and control are absolute hell
it's like having to choose between a bigass flashy car with a slowass clunky engine that breaks down fast and a small 2 seat one that has the fastest most effecient engine in the world.
like yeah the first one looks better but you can't fucking use it
 
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nkarafo

Member
Yeah because saying fuck you to someone automatically makes you 12. i thought neogaf was supposed to be filled with internet
thugs and assholes but i guess there's now fragile snowflakes trying to act cool by calling everyone who opposes them 12
Yeah so what if super has a better resolution, no point in that if the physics and control are absolute hell
it's like having to choose between a bigass flashy car with a slowass clunky engine that breaks down fast and a small 2 seat one that has the fastest most effecient engine in the world.
like yeah the first one looks better but you can't fucking use it
You need to stop taking whatever you are taking dude.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
You forgot about the special stage in Strider.

There was no Strider game on the SNES. And certainly no scaling in the NES or Genesis versions of Strider.

diffusionx said:
Not sprite scaling per se but the DSP chips were used for the math processing that went into the effect - used by Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.

Yeah, they were used to enhance mode 7. There were a few chips to enhance functions on the SNES, but nothing added sprite scaling except for the Super FX in Yoshi's Island. And even then, it was just a more powerful CPU added to the SNES that was fast enough to do sprite scaling and manipulation in software.
 
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sol_bad

Member
I don't consider it a SNES 2. Many games were inferior on the GBA. Especially the audio. Still a great little handheld from what I've played through emulation.

Never could play the actual hardware, too hard for me to hold. The DS' shape made on the go gaming much easier.

Never could play PSP or Vita either.
 

Scotty W

Member
What bothers me about this thread is those ports of Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 that I spent my money on. DKC 2 was not fun and not pretty... and I loved this game on the SNES. The port of DKC 3 was fun, but noticeably not as nice looking as the SNES version.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
What bothers me about this thread is those ports of Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 that I spent my money on. DKC 2 was not fun and not pretty... and I loved this game on the SNES. The port of DKC 3 was fun, but noticeably not as nice looking as the SNES version.
it was dkc2 in the palm of your hands.
that was it,

back in that time that was something special.

Borderlands 2 is on the vita for that reason.

Witcher 3 on the switch? yup


Sometimes people forget what device they play the game on.
 

Scotty W

Member
it was dkc2 in the palm of your hands.
that was it,

back in that time that was something special.

My point was that it SHOULD have been something special, but it was simply not fun. I had the SNES version to compare with, as well as the GBA DKC 3. I know something was wrong with it.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
My point was that it SHOULD have been something special, but it was simply not fun. I had the SNES version to compare with, as well as the GBA DKC 3. I know something was wrong with it.
well ofc you have less pixels to work with and a non lit screen users.
i had fun with the game. Same with super mario world. Link to the past, yoshi's island, doom and many more
 

Scotty W

Member
well ofc you have less pixels to work with and a non lit screen users.
i had fun with the game. Same with super mario world. Link to the past, yoshi's island, doom and many more
I haven't played the Doom port, though I would like to, but I would say that SMW and Yoshi's Island are perfect ports. I have them, and I have had hours of fun with them. I cannot say the same about GBA DKC 2, unfortunately.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
I haven't played the Doom port, though I would like to, but I would say that SMW and Yoshi's Island are perfect ports. I have them, and I have had hours of fun with them. I cannot say the same about GBA DKC 2, unfortunately.
Well those 3 where always the lesser snes ports on the gba aye,
 

Scotty W

Member
Well those 3 where always the lesser snes ports on the gba aye,
iirc, the DKC games were not actually ports, but rebuilt versions from scratch. I don't know why they couldn't just port directly across. Surely if the GBA could do Yoshi's Island, it should have been able to do DKC.

ps, I know I called them ports first, I'm not trying to score points against you by nitpicking what they are.
 

molasar

Banned
iirc, the DKC games were not actually ports, but rebuilt versions from scratch. I don't know why they couldn't just port directly across. Surely if the GBA could do Yoshi's Island, it should have been able to do DKC.

ps, I know I called them ports first, I'm not trying to score points against you by nitpicking what they are.

They are still ports. Even if there is extra stuff or missing stuff in them.

emulation ≠ porting
 
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Drell

Member
Sprite scaling was possible on SNES without any extra chip but it was very limited:



Chrono Trigger does it the Bike Chase Sequence. Chrono's and Johnny's sprites are scale smootly depending of their distance to the camera on top of the mode 7 layer.

I'm sure there's some other examples.
 

Scotty W

Member
They are still ports. Even if there is extra stuff or missing stuff in them.

emulation ≠ porting

A big part of my confusion is that I don't know much about programming. But when I play SMW or Yoshi's Island on the GBA, it doesn't seem to me that they are emulated; but I realize that I think you would need an emulator for that. Is that the case?

In the case of YI and SMW, it seems to me that they somehow just "copy and pasted" all the data and resources over to the GBA, with some small changes. This is what I would call a port. With DKC, I recall reading that they redid all the assets, notably the graphics, rather than copying the data. If I am correct, wouldn't there be a word to distinguish different kinds of ports?
 

Caffeine

Member
the gba to this day has some of my favorite games and ports and the fact that you could take it anywhere was so good.
 

molasar

Banned
A big part of my confusion is that I don't know much about programming. But when I play SMW or Yoshi's Island on the GBA, it doesn't seem to me that they are emulated; but I realize that I think you would need an emulator for that. Is that the case?

In the case of YI and SMW, it seems to me that they somehow just "copy and pasted" all the data and resources over to the GBA, with some small changes. This is what I would call a port. With DKC, I recall reading that they redid all the assets, notably the graphics, rather than copying the data. If I am correct, wouldn't there be a word to distinguish different kinds of ports?

I just thought that you saw porting as emulation.

Anyways check this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porting#Porting_in_gaming
 

Thaedolus

Member
Sprite scaling was possible on SNES without any extra chip but it was very limited:



Chrono Trigger does it the Bike Chase Sequence. Chrono's and Johnny's sprites are scale smootly depending of their distance to the camera on top of the mode 7 layer.

I'm sure there's some other examples.


Are you sure? It kinda looks like it’s popping between sprites to me.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
I always had a love/hate relationship with the GBA. Some games were fantastic, but I could never shake off the idea that so much more could have been done on the hardware side. Why put 2 less buttons than on the SNES and then make so many SNES ports to fill up the library? Why were Nintendo OK with that abysmal audio performance? Why did the SP fix the lighting issue but take away the headphone jack? Why make the Mini instead of making a definitive GBA with no compromise? This thing had 3 different versions and none of them has all the pros. It’s infuriating.

GBA is also where Nintendo started giving sampled voices to everything just because they could. All the Super Mario Advance game with added voices are insufferable. And so many ports of home console games with that puny resolution. Ugh.

Good games are good no matter what, but the GBA was so disappointing on many levels. And no, it wasn’t the pinnacle of 2D game design by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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