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The Great Ace Attorney 2 [Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2] |JP OT| Resolve to learn Japanese

Chrono Helix

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Spoilers until the middle of case 2, specifically, until the end of the first trial segment
I think it's really cute that the people from the gas company have a bee motif.
And I found the first Joint Reasoning segment really disappointing. The other half of the soap, and the other cup, were just things that were out of immediate sight of the player that Holmes should have spotted. Basically they could have cut everything except the presence of Natsume's books to know that he was at the scene.

In comparison the first Joint Reasoning segment had Holmes talking to Nikomina, and using what drew her attention to come up with his deductions. Hope the others are better.
 

GSR

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At the trial for case 4. I'm enjoying it a lot, but there are two things really bugging me:

1.
Ryuunosuke and Susato seem... strangely unconcerned with Asougi's revival? Like all throughout case 3 it was basically "You're Asougi!" "Who?" "Oh I guess we'll just abandon this completely" and now it's like "Asougi's a prosecutor! Oh no! Oh well." I feel like given how important Asougi was to both of them, they're reacting strangely muted to him being alive again.

2.
Is there seriously no more jury!? Why would you just straight-up remove the thing that makes DGS' trials so special compared to the main series? Top-secret my ass, just get some military/government people in the role and handwave it.
 

Lee Chaolan

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Hey sorry for the slightly off topic post here, but where in the world can I rent/purchase The Ace Attorney live action movie from 2012? I don't see it on netflix or anywhere and don't see it easily purchasable from anywhere.

Didn't want to create a new topic just for this so this is the only other alive AA topic I could find.

Any help is appreciated :)
 

ZeroD

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Looking at the impressions in Japan seems the fans are enjoying this one. I can't wait to get it when I'm done with DQ.

I wonder if this one will save the Dai series if it sells enough
 

takoyaki

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Hey sorry for the slightly off topic post here, but where in the world can I rent/purchase The Ace Attorney live action movie from 2012? I don't see it on netflix or anywhere and don't see it easily purchasable from anywhere.

Didn't want to create a new topic just for this so this is the only other alive AA topic I could find.

Any help is appreciated :)

I liked the movie, it's pretty entertaining if you're a AA/Takashi Miike fan. You'll need to jump through some hoops to watch the movie legally:

There's an Australian DVD which (i think) is the only release with English subs; you'll need a region-free DVD player/drive.

If you don't mind watching the movie without subs, there's also a German Bluray which offers the best image quality but you'll need a region-free Bluray Player/drive.

Amazon US, Amazon GER

You can also check the AA GAF community thread, there might be more releases of the movie.
 

Lee Chaolan

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I liked the movie, it’s pretty entertaining if you’re a AA/Takashi Miike fan. You'll need to jump through some hoops to watch the movie legally:

There’s an Australian DVD which (i think) is the only release with English subs; you’ll need a region-free DVD player/drive.

If you don't mind watching the movie without subs, there’s also a German Bluray which offers the best image quality but you’ll need a region-free Bluray Player/drive.

Amazon US, Amazon GER

You can also check the AA GAF community thread, there might be more releases of the movie.

Ahh, I somehow missed that thread! My apologies. Thanks so much for such an informative post.

Yeah, love the series and Ol' Phoenix. :) I'll report there how I like it.

Oh and the Great Ace Attorney games look magnificent too! Hope we get them localized some day :)
 

Shouta

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I just started the first case and oh man,
Susato is already killing me with the eyes. Just like Ryunosuke, lol. She looks great in the uniform though. Dad making her Ryuutaro is kinda silly.
 

Magnet_Man

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At the trial for case 4. I'm enjoying it a lot, but there are two things really bugging me:

1.
Ryuunosuke and Susato seem... strangely unconcerned with Asougi's revival? Like all throughout case 3 it was basically "You're Asougi!" "Who?" "Oh I guess we'll just abandon this completely" and now it's like "Asougi's a prosecutor! Oh no! Oh well." I feel like given how important Asougi was to both of them, they're reacting strangely muted to him being alive again.

2.
Is there seriously no more jury!? Why would you just straight-up remove the thing that makes DGS' trials so special compared to the main series? Top-secret my ass, just get some military/government people in the role and handwave it.

Case 4 Spoiler
1.
Yeah, I thought that was really strange, like I mentioned above his and Van Zieks's stories are treated in a "oh, by the way" fashion. If I squint really hard with lemon in my eyes after coming out of the pool, I can maybe understand Naruhodo's response as "I always could feel deep down that you were still alive" through anime-best-friend-ism and Holmes acting dodgy anytime the subject came up again. Afterward, he'd trust Asougi to come see him when he's ready or did whatever he wanted to do. He does trust Asougi like a superhero. Susato, however, no. She would be knocking people over to get to him and see how he was. I could imagine her being reserved if after seeing him, he abruptly sent her away with "I have to do this alone. Leave" or something.

I think this is probably the biggest sacrifice from squishing two hypothetical games together. Naruhodo and Susato are acting like the initial drama had already happened and the question becomes "why is Asougi acting so distant to us now..." I'd imagine the original plan was to have DGS2 focus entirely on events at the World Fair (including a return of Demitri) culminating with the Teleporter case and Dr. Sithe being the final killer before ending on the wax figure unmasking and Asougi's reveal, and then DGS3 would expand on the aftermath and events of Case 4 and 5.

Case 4 & 5 spoiler
2.
Yeah, they're gone... They did practically nothing during Case 2, were pretty good in Case 3 and now gone from 4&5. I was hoping we'd get some of the other nation representatives assisting or something.
 

GSR

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Case 4 Spoiler
1.
Yeah, I thought that was really strange, like I mentioned above his and Van Zieks's stories are treated in a "oh, by the way" fashion. If I squint really hard with lemon in my eyes after coming out of the pool, I can maybe understand Naruhodo's response as "I always could feel deep down that you were still alive" through anime-best-friend-ism and Holmes acting dodgy anytime the subject came up again. Afterward, he'd trust Asougi to come see him when he's ready or did whatever he wanted to do. He does trust Asougi like a superhero. Susato, however, no. She would be knocking people over to get to him and see how he was. I could imagine her being reserved if after seeing him, he abruptly sent her away with "I have to do this alone. Leave" or something.

I think this is probably the biggest sacrifice from squishing two hypothetical games together. Naruhodo and Susato are acting like the initial drama had already happened and the question becomes "why is Asougi acting so distant to us now..." I'd imagine the original plan was to have DGS2 focus entirely on events at the World Fair (including a return of Demitri) culminating with the Teleporter case and Dr. Sithe being the final killer before ending on the wax figure unmasking and Asougi's reveal, and then DGS3 would expand on the aftermath and events of Case 4 and 5.

Case 4 & 5 spoiler
2.
Yeah, they're gone... They did practically nothing during Case 2, were pretty good in Case 3 and now gone from 4&5. I was hoping we'd get some of the other nation representatives assisting or something.

1. Yeah, absolutely. (Case 3 spoiler as well)
Case 3 is such an intense ride with such a note-perfect ending that it's hard not to imagine that it was meant to be a finale. Dr. Sithe in particular feels like someone who should have been built up as an ally or adversary over several cases before being the killer, and while it was still electric to realize she was the real culprit, there was definitely a little bit of a sense of "oh, is that all she's here for?"

Granted, I haven't started case 5 beyond seeing the opening of the trial, so for all I know she gets dragged out of jail and onto the witness stand.

Also on that note, and the note of missing character beats... I was streaming and a little tired so I may have just missed it, but Maria seemed remarkably unconcerned that we put her mother in jail, lol.

2. (Cases 4 and 5)
Yeah, ugh. It's cool seeing Vortex as judge but I'd much rather have had two more cases of unique juries. And given that I'm pretty certain Vortex is the final boss, it seems obvious to me that you'd want a jury there so Naruhodou could use them as allies when it came time to accuse Vortex of... whatever he did. Hell, have the jury be people Vortex controls to make the road to climb that much higher but that much more satisfying to overcome.

Also, catching up to this question now that I'm in case 5:

Alright lizard man, tell me this: (Case 5 spoiler)
How'd you know the subtitle to the game? After the announcement trailer, iirc, you went with "Resolve" when subbing the trailer and asked if anyone had a better suggestion. I was going with "determination" until then but dropped it when "resolve" rolls off the tongue better. Was the title listed somewhere at the announcement that I didn't know about? Otherwise I think Capcom is straight up lurking Gaf and C-R.

なに、諸君。ほんの「初歩」ですよ。

Jokes aside,
I just got lucky, there was no official translation until the game came out. A long time ago Capcom actually did used to trawl CR occasionally, but I don't know if they still do today. It's possible they saw what people were using around the internet and just decided to stick with that, or they independently decided it was a good translation. The latter's probably more likely.
 

GSR

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I finished. I'm gonna want to do a deep dive review at some point, but right now I largely agree with Magnet_Man's comments... this is a game with a really solid overarching plot that's satisfying to solve, but you can really feel the pressure of wrapping everything up in one game. It's kind of jarring coming from DGS1 which was surprisingly leisurely and small-scale for being "Dai" Gyakuten Saiban.

I'm not sure I'd say I prefer DGS1 to this, but I'd need more time to chew on DGS2. DGS1's character work is I think unquestionably better than DGS2, but DGS2's mysteries were an order of magnitude more interesting.
 

Chrono Helix

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The presentation of the third Joint Reasoning segment of the game is so wonderful, compared to the letdowns the previous ones were :)
 

Shouta

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Finished the first case, which was a pretty simple and easy one. I liked how that they didn't twist the case itself but everything else to make it interesting.

I'm on the 2nd case now and this is pretty interesting so far. I figured that one character I saw from DGS1 would appear here but man, I wasn't expecting this, lol.
 

JimPanzer

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I'm at the first part of the second case but I really don't like were I think this is heading:
the whole case being just a memory. If they have a good explanation why this didn't come up in the first game I'm ok with it, but so far it seems kinda tagged on
 

Waxwing

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Learning Japanese now...I should be ready to play this in approximately two years :p BUT I'M DOING IT DAMMIT.

(I recommend WaniKani so far for Kanji learning)
 
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Learning Japanese now...I should be ready to play this in approximately two years :p BUT I'M DOING IT DAMMIT.

(I recommend WaniKani so far for Kanji learning)

Come on in: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1206948

On topic: damn I've had like zero time for games since this launched. I've barely started the first case, but it feels so good to be back in this world again.

Back slightly off topic: for anyone in Japan, there's a 大逆転裁判2 escape game thing happening at Meiji Mura (architectural museum thing near Nagoya/Inuyama). I played the one two years ago when the first game launched and it was a ton of fun. Highly recommend checking it out, and it might be possible to put together a group for it or something if the interest was there.
 

Chrono Helix

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Late case 3 spoilers
Man, Asougi's hair just doesn't look good without the headband flowing in the wind.
 

Shouta

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I just finished the 2nd case as well, that was actually a lot more interesting than I was expecting.
 

Magnet_Man

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could someone refresh my memory (DGS case 5 spoilers)
what the big mistake was naruhodo made causing him to be not allowed to work as an attorney?

DGS1-3 and DGS1-5 spoilers
During the fifth case, Gina's testimony proved that Megundal's trial was a sham fraught with perjury and fraudulent evidence and Naruhodo becomes suspected of being in on the scheme. And during the trial Naruhodo did disclose a highly confidential transmission from the English government, even though it was in code.
 

GSR

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finished the second case. ended up really liking it, probably one of my favorite cases in the whole series. I still think the framing is really weird though.

I just finished the 2nd case as well, that was actually a lot more interesting than I was expecting.

I'm not sure I'd call it one of my favorites, but it does wind up much better than what the premise shown to us pre-release suggested. And it's got some really stellar individual moments (like (DGS2-2)
Holmes stopping Viridian's suicide
).
 

Chrono Helix

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Just finished case 4. I'm quite annoyed that I spoiled for myself that
Susato's father was Holmes' partner
by reading his character entry on TVTropes.
 

GSR

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Just finished case 4. I'm quite annoyed that I spoiled for myself that
Susato's father was Holmes' partner
by reading his character entry on TVTropes.

Ouch. That was probably my favorite reveal in the game. I love how (case 4 spoilers)
the instant you see Holmes and Yuujin standing next to each other, Yuujin's costume makes it super clear he's the real Watson. Great character design.
 

JimPanzer

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just finished case 3...wooo what a ride. we are persona now!!

I have to say I really like the voiced sections, makes me wish the whole game would be like that, but that's probably way above their budget.
 

Shouta

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I just finished. Holy smokes, that was a ride.

It's been awhile since there one that had this many twists and turns. It was pretty refreshing to not immediately call the entire thing from the onset. I also really liked the way it ties pretty much all of the cases in the two game back into the narrative. I'll write something up a bit more in-depth another day after I gather my thoughts a bit more.
 

JimPanzer

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aaand done. that was a great game! huge improvement over the first title and probably my favorite game after the original trilogy. Honestly I really would like to see those characters again, especially Holmes really grew on me in the second game.
 

waxinlyrical

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Been a big Gyakuten Saiban fan for ages, I passed on Dai Gyakuten Saiban after hearing that comments that it felt like the game ended abruptly as though it was rushed. Then reading this OT mentioning that everything was wrapped up, I decided to marathon both Dai Gyakuten Saiban 1 and 2. Whew, what a ride. 2 definitely felt overly crammed, like it it was trying to fit in 2 games worth of story into just one that wraps up all the story threads. Still, I really liked that they clearly put a lot of thought into where the plot would go even back in Dai Gyakuten Saiban 1. Stuff like seeing
Natsume Soseki's apartment mate have a brief cameo in the first game and have that pay off into an entire case was great.

The supernatural elements of the main Gyakuten Saiban series have always been my least favorite parts of the series ( How are you supposed to use logic and deduction to solve murder cases when magic Spirit Channeling powers exist?), so I was glad that the supernatural doesn't really show up in Dai Gyakuten Saiban, although
some of Holmes/Iris tech are basically sci-fi Deus Ex Machina devices.

Dr Sis and her daughter Glorine seemed like they were meant to be more major characters that featured in a couple of cases, it's a pity their role wasn't larger.
 

Boogiepop

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And I beat it finally (was only getting in a bit here and there). Really, really enjoyed that, and to my tastes it beat out the first game quite thoroughly. I can agree with the complaints of a few things feeling kind of rushed
Like how Asougi's character arc and the stuff related to him is a bit off. Or how the final case doesn't click to a quite so perfect close. And yeah, the whole jury aspect kind of died, feeling a bit awkward even when present (like, oh yeah, we're here, so everyone just says guilty immediately so we can give some info through a different source to move things forward)
Which, yeah, that hurts a bit, and is why I wouldn't quite put it at the top of my list (which has 3 and Investigations 2 roughly tied at the top, then 6 probably a good bit closer to this. But 4th place isn't bad at all, IMO!)

But... just, there's so much that worked great for me here. The biggest issue of the first game for me, and the one that doomed it to a middle-ranking spot in the series heirachy IMO, was that it just did NOT trust you. It held your hand HARD, and didn't ramp up at all until like the 4th case, which was still probably not at the complexity a 4th case should have. Whereas this doesn't have that problem at all, and feels sooooo much better for it! (Well, the first case is admittedly a bit underwhelming, but it picks way, way up immediately).

Perhaps the biggest thing for me, though? The animations are AMAZING here. Like, there's a ton of good stuff, but
Petenshi and Drebber
in particular were just so, so good.

And then there's just a ton of assorted stuff that I loved all throughout. Like, maybe I was slow on the uptake for this one, but to me, the game had one of the best "it was staring me in the face the whole time" reveals in the series, in the form of [/spoiler]the "Gossip" reveal. It clicked right when the time came to call him back to the stand, and then my brain went through all the implications that were indeed talked through, and it was just like... had to sit my 3DS down for a moment. Because yeah, they totally got me for the EXACT reason the game mentions: that lip is just SO distracting that I wasn't even thinking of that possibility.[/spoiler] And a lot of the pun names got me, but I especially liked
Eraida Meningen, for being like essentially coming out and naming a character "Ima Badman"
. But most of all, I just want to say holy crap at
Holmes breaking out the freaking holigrams at the end. Was already going to be like "haha, they pretty much invented cellphones waaaaaaaay ahead of time", and then THAT happened. And it's just so beautifully, ridiculously, wonderfully over the top, and I love it. Had me cracking up HARD.
Which may just be the true takeaway: the humor was REALLY on point for me all throughout in so many great bits.

Anyway, net takeaway is that I loved the hell out of the game, and it most certainly didn't disappoint me.

Oh, and one more minor thing: Was anybody else shocked that
Gregson was straight up involved heavily in the Shinigami killings? Thought for sure there'd be a part where we'd clear his name on that, but nope, dude was straight up helping out with assassinations, holy crap!
 

Magnet_Man

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Oh, and one more minor thing: Was anybody else shocked that
Gregson was straight up involved heavily in the Shinigami killings? Thought for sure there'd be a part where we'd clear his name on that, but nope, dude was straight up helping out with assassinations, holy crap!

That's something that I'm still not super sure how I feel on it.

*DGS1&2 spoilers*
Gregson is definitely one of the most morally complex characters in the series. In the first game, he came off as a bit of a goofball but after what he did in Case 5, I hated his guts, so I was hoping for some type of redemption from him in this game since he was going to be returning to the same role. It partially happened with him taking in Gina and making her a part of Scotland Yard, but in the end he was still an active part of Reaper in assisting and even attempting murder. I'm fine with that too.

The thing I'm uncertain about is DGS is very character focused and the cast doesn't exist in a vacuum. Getting to the point, I don't like how the game treated Gina's and Van Zieks's attitudes about him. Gina in DGS1 had some deep-rooted trust and abandonment issues, but was able to overcome them thanks to Naruhodo and Iris. It was really sweet seeing how much she had grown in this game. And then Gregson is killed and everyone starts saying he was part of the Reaper's Curse, with Van Zieks is completely on board with assuming is the case. Gina desperately turns to Naruhodo and says "Say something! Make them stop saying those horrible things about the boss!" That hit me square in the gooey feels, man. Ace Attorney focuses a lot on faith and believing in other people. After Gina's experiences in DGS1, she learned to trust in others again. Even with evidence and testimony painting Gregson as a conspirator which Van Zieks was all too eager to agree with because of how cynical and bitter he is, she still believed in him. Everything seemed to point to exonerating Gregson, rewarding Gina's trust and further punishing Van Zieks's cynicism.

But ultimately her trust was betrayed and Van Zieks was right to assume the worst. I don't know, it just seems so contrary to what the series is about. And yet the game frequently presented Gregson as a sort of tragic figure, even getting his own spot during the credits sequence. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel about him.
 

Shouta

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That's something that I'm still not super sure how I feel on it.

*DGS1&2 spoilers*
Gregson is definitely one of the most morally complex characters in the series. In the first game, he came off as a bit of a goofball but after what he did in Case 5, I hated his guts, so I was hoping for some type of redemption from him in this game since he was going to be returning to the same role. It partially happened with him taking in Gina and making her a part of Scotland Yard, but in the end he was still an active part of Reaper in assisting and even attempting murder. I'm fine with that too.

The thing I'm uncertain about is DGS is very character focused and the cast doesn't exist in a vacuum. Getting to the point, I don't like how the game treated Gina's and Van Zieks's attitudes about him. Gina in DGS1 had some deep-rooted trust and abandonment issues, but was able to overcome them thanks to Naruhodo and Iris. It was really sweet seeing how much she had grown in this game. And then Gregson is killed and everyone starts saying he was part of the Reaper's Curse, with Van Zieks is completely on board with assuming is the case. Gina desperately turns to Naruhodo and says "Say something! Make them stop saying those horrible things about the boss!" That hit me square in the gooey feels, man. Ace Attorney focuses a lot on faith and believing in other people. After Gina's experiences in DGS1, she learned to trust in others again. Even with evidence and testimony painting Gregson as a conspirator which Van Zieks was all too eager to agree with because of how cynical and bitter he is, she still believed in him. Everything seemed to point to exonerating Gregson, rewarding Gina's trust and further punishing Van Zieks's cynicism.

But ultimately her trust was betrayed and Van Zieks was right to assume the worst. I don't know, it just seems so contrary to what the series is about. And yet the game frequently presented Gregson as a sort of tragic figure, even getting his own spot during the credits sequence. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel about him.

I think that's largely supposed to be intended by the writers.

Gregson is definitely complex and meant to invoke a lot of things in the player. He's doing bad things but for a good reason. Yet, he feels guilty about it and tries his best to do the right thing when he has his public face on. The thing that really makes it hit is that we don't really know how he felt about all of it. We can only surmise based off his actions in other places throughout the game and the relationships he's forged. He's a real breath of fresh air to me.

My interpretation of his motives was that he was doing a lot of the Reaper stuff behind the scenes to not only protect the legacy of Klimt Van Zieks but to also aid Barok in his role as a prosecutor. The picture of the three of them together points to how close they were. He felt guilty doing that so he would do the right thing when the opportunity showed like helping Naruhodo and Susato. His transfer to Paris and taking Gina with him was his chance to break free from doing that after being deeply affected by his relationship with Gina but also by his time with Naruhodo and Susato. Jigoku was going to be his last job but ended in failure, preventing him from getting the fresh start he wanted.
 

takoyaki

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Finally finished the game today.

Case 1 was a good introductory case, but nothing special.
It was fun to watch Susato switch wildly between pronouns and Haori slipping up from time to time, only for the judge to tell Susato he knew it was her all along.

Case 2 was solid.
Interesting choice to place it right after the Souseki case from DGS1. It went on a bit too long though imo.

After Case 2 reused a lot of familiar locations and characters
, Case 3 felt very refreshing at first.
The World’s Fair, a bunch of fun new characters, the focus on science, etc. Once the big reveals started during the second half of case three, the focus of the game shifted and the new twists just kept coming until the credits rolled. I appreciate that the game didn’t leave any loose ends, but there was so much backstory and there were so many twists and turns that it felt long-winded and rushed at the same time. I wasn't fully on board with all the reveals at first (Kazuma is a live and suffers from amnesia, his father is a serial killer, etc.) but now that I finished the game, it overall feels like a satisfying conclusion.

Solving the cases felt more challenging than in DGS1. I got stuck a couple of times (overlooking a tiny object during a long investigation part, using the right piece of evidence without examining it first, etc.) and while it’s been two years since I played DGS1, I think that game overly relied on pressing every statement during the testimony parts and I’m glad that DGS2 didn’t do that again. While I would have liked to do a couple more Joint Reasonings and the like
(love the banter between Holmes and Naruhodō, step dancing Mikotoba = best Mikotoba), the lack of jury trials past a certain point just felt wrong. Like the re-used music and locations/characters, this might have been a budgetary issue with all the focus put on finishing the story in Case 4 and 5; no idea, it just felt like something was off.

Overall, I still prefer DGS1. It had the benefit of introducing a whole new cast of characters and I enjoy origin stories and world building in general. DGS2 did a good job of wrapping up the loose ends from the first game and it had a lot of charming little details and banter throughout the story. Definitely worth playing as well.