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The Hill: Democrats "balk" at the middle class getting assistance during the pandemic shutdown

infinitys_7th

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Senate Republican and Democratic negotiators are battling over a central component of President Trump’s stimulus plan: sending out hundreds of billions of dollars in rebate checks to middle-income Americans.

Senate GOP negotiators argue that $1,200 direct payments to individuals are the best way to get money flowing through the economy quickly, while Democrats say disbursing cash benefits so broadly doesn’t do enough for low-income Americans and people who lose their jobs.

Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) on Friday said Congress should pass a massive expansion of unemployment benefits instead of simply doling out checks to individuals and families, regardless of whether they miss work because of health quarantines.

“There are many, many who have lost their jobs and one check when they may be out of their jobs for three, four, five months isn’t going to be enough. Unemployment insurance gives money the whole period of time the crisis exists at your present salary level and covers just about everyone,” Schumer said.
Democrats had immediate plans for sending out funds, not solely expanding access to unemployment (which is already happening). I'm not sure why Senate Dems are suddenly against this and just want unemployment only when the unemployed will benefit just the same from this short term solution.

It is also likely that if this continues there will be another round or two (as Democrats have also suggested). AFAIK nothing in the current plan prohibits that.

Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), who participated in an initial round of talks with Senate Republican chairmen on Friday morning, argued that direct payments will not be as effective as expanded unemployment benefits.

“In the Republican package there was nothing on unemployment insurance,” Stabenow said. “We are not in any way seeing yet the focus enough on workers, on the workforce, on people getting hit the hardest.”

She also faulted the GOP plan for not providing a “robust” expansion of health care resources and instead characterized many of the 43 health-related provisions in the Republican bill as “stop-gap.”
Stabenow characterized the negotiations on expanding unemployment benefits as robust and said the question is “how to most effectively do this.”

“I couldn’t believe that they were talking about lowest income people getting $600 and somebody making $75,000 getting twice as much as that, $1,200,” she said. “Those numbers don’t make any sense.
Stabenow is being misleading - people who did not file taxes in 2018 will get at least $600 in assistance, not a capped amount, and will also get additional money based on children.

Someone making $75,000 a year is also more likely to have more debts and liability than someone who made such a small amount in 2018, and those liabilities are the kinds of things that cause depressions when they go under. Of course, if you filed taxes you get the full $1200 (+ money for kids), so the whole point is moot anyway. Between unemployment expansion and at least $600 and $1200 for almost all people who have been employed, this payment will help people across the low and middle classes stay above water while the country is shut down.
 
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Sub_Level

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Why are we using 2018 taxes as a deciding factor on how much people get in Spring of 2020? Are we gonna do this next month too when businesses are still struggling and hundreds of thousands of jobs are still lost?



The fallout from this is not going to be 2 weeks, its going to be 2 years. I support checks given the extreme circumstances but yea they probably need to adjust their criteria for who gets them and what amount they get.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Thank you to the mod who moved this.

Why are we using 2018 taxes as a deciding factor on how much people get in Spring of 2020? Are we gonna do this next month too when businesses are still struggling and hundreds of thousands of jobs are still lost?



The fallout from this is not going to be 2 weeks, its going to be 2 years. I support checks given the extreme circumstances but yea they probably need to adjust their criteria for who gets them and what amount they get.
2019 taxes have not been filed in full yet. How many people wait until the day of to file personal taxes? That was next month before, now four months out. Obviously the IRS has records of withholdings, though, so they could go off of either.

As it stands now this is an immediate action to calm and help the most vulnerable and critical to keep the economy from falling apart - the low and middle class. It gives the lower class a lot towards subsistence in addition to already expanding unemployment, and gives the middle class some room to breath for loans and other liabilities now that the world is shut down.

In my case, I am a middle class taxpayer who would qualify for some portion of this. I just signed a contract in February for land sold by court order and am in the process of getting a $50,000 loan to finalize the purchase. If banks shut down before I get one I'm kind of fucked, even though I have substantial cash savings and other property (which are not going to be able to be sold for a while). Granted, I'm fairly certain the court would overlook this in a time of crisis, but it is still a swinging guillotine of uncertainty over my head. If they ask for a good faith payment, this would help with that. I'm sure lots of people are in similar boats from the sudden impacts of the pandemic response.
 
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btgorman

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Why are we using 2018 taxes as a deciding factor on how much people get in Spring of 2020? Are we gonna do this next month too when businesses are still struggling and hundreds of thousands of jobs are still lost?



The fallout from this is not going to be 2 weeks, its going to be 2 years. I support checks given the extreme circumstances but yea they probably need to adjust their criteria for who gets them and what amount they get.
The brilliant sub take

 

Zefah

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“There are many, many who have lost their jobs and one check when they may be out of their jobs for three, four, five months isn’t going to be enough. Unemployment insurance gives money the whole period of time the crisis exists at your present salary level and covers just about everyone,” Schumer said.
Fucking idiot. You don't have to do this all in one fell swoop, but you do need to do something fast. You can follow up later with more aid if needed.
 

infinitys_7th

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Fucking idiot. You don't have to do this all in one fell swoop, but you do need to do something fast. You can follow up later with more aid if needed.
This is also both an unprecedented (in the modern US) and rapidly changing issue. We have no idea how many people will become symptomatic in the next two weeks, let alone the next the few months. The response then will depend on what the conditions are. For now, we mostly have panic and businesses shutting down.
 

Gunztrix

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The Democrats are right. The $1200 isn't going to do shit. They NEED to quickly expand unemployment.

This is still the beginning it's going to get worse, be proactive not reactive.
 
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cryptoadam

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This is really stupid to argue about. Like we aren't even 2 weeks into this pandemic. When 3 months have passed maybe these things can be debated.

And shit can be totally different if the government basically is rationing food and every business is closed because of a national lockdown and martial law.

One thing we are doing where I live is they will start infrastructure projects earlier then they were scheduled to try and keep jobs and an economy.

I wonder if all these people that are getting free money would be willing to take up other jobs to pitch in during this crisis or if they want to sit on their butts until their gender studies teaching job comes back? Like if the government said ok we need 10 000 people to work at Amazon deliver factories so instead of sending you 1K you can work there (assume its safe testing etc...) would these people take it up or would they complain how the government isn't providing enough money.
 

infinitys_7th

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The Democrats are right. The $1200 isn't going to do shit. They NEED to quickly expand unemployment.

This is still the beginning it's going to get worse, be proactive not reactive.
They already are:


President Donald Trump signed a $100 billion coronavirus relief package into law Wednesday, which will provide free COVID-19 testing and expand paid leave and unemployment insurance to Americans impacted by the pandemic.

More funding to unemployment insurance can help the nearly one in five U.S. households that have already experienced a layoff or reduction in work hours due to the coronavirus pandemic, according to an NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll and reported by NPR.

Following an announcement from the U.S. Department of Labor last week, states, which administer unemployment programs, have been granted greater flexibility in determining who qualifies for unemployment insurance benefits.

In many states, workers can now file a claim for partial wage replacement if their employer reduces their hours or shuts down due to the pandemic. This can provide some financial relief to service industry workers impacted by nationwide closures of restaurants, bars and retail stores.
This is entirely about the Democrat's long standing hatred of the middle class. The middle class is getting acknowledged as needing help during this crisis and they want to shift aid from them when it is just as crucial they get it as the lower class. All while lumping the middle class in with "millionaires" as the people who will not get help.
 

Sub_Level

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The brilliant sub take

Oh I'll take the $1200. And I even think checks make sense for this emergency (at least at first). I'm just questioning their criteria and how long this is sustainable. Crazy times.
 

Gunztrix

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They already are:




This is entirely about the Democrat's long standing hatred of the middle class. The middle class is getting acknowledged as needing help during this crisis and they want to shift aid from them when it is just as crucial they get it as the lower class. All while lumping the middle class in with "millionaires" as the people who will not get help.
Yes the bill Trump signed included an expansions to unemployment insurance, but they are working on this bill to provide even further expansion and aid.

I don't get how this is about hatred for the middle class. It make sense to advocate for more expansion of unemployment as lower and middle class Americans are both loosing/at risk of loosing jobs. Unemployment benefits both.

I also understand the argument to just hurry up pass the $1200 rebate piece-wise approach, but if it were me, my goal would be to pass a robust bill.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Yes the bill Trump signed included an expansions to unemployment insurance, but they are working on this bill to provide even further expansion and aid.

I don't get how this is about hatred for the middle class. It make sense to advocate for more expansion of unemployment as lower and middle class Americans are both loosing/at risk of loosing jobs. Unemployment benefits both.

I also understand the argument to just hurry up pass the $1200 rebate piece-wise approach, but if it were me, my goal would be to pass a robust bill.
Because everyone needs aid now, not just the unemployed who are already getting it. Small restaurant owners, for example, are not unemployed while they still own their business. Or people like me who circumstances could screw over. If we go, there will not be an economy to come back to. The goal is to keep things as static as possible.

Their hatred is expressed in the subtle things like talking about "millionaires" not getting the money while limiting those who get it to those who make <$50k-$60k. That implicitly lumps the middle class with millionaires.
 
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Zefah

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Yes the bill Trump signed included an expansions to unemployment insurance, but they are working on this bill to provide even further expansion and aid.

I don't get how this is about hatred for the middle class. It make sense to advocate for more expansion of unemployment as lower and middle class Americans are both loosing/at risk of loosing jobs. Unemployment benefits both.

I also understand the argument to just hurry up pass the $1200 rebate piece-wise approach, but if it were me, my goal would be to pass a robust bill.
Pass a robust bill next, then. People's lives around the country were just massively disrupted in the last couple of weeks. Many are now having to deal with children at home and an inability to go anywhere. They also feel the need to stock up on essentials in preparation for a lockdown. Many may have lost their jobs. Putting some amount of money in their pockets as soon as possible is imperative. That shouldn't be contingent on hashing out a longer term solution to a problem that is changing in nature by the day.
 

Gunztrix

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Ok, it's just a difference of approach then. I still have a job fortunately since I work at the hospital, but I feel the unemployment is going to skyrocket fast. Something more consistent is going to be needed UBI / further expanded unemployment.

Nice talk y'all.
 
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oatmeal

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Beating the virus will get people money faster than any outside service. Beat the virus, life will slowly get back to normal.
 

Damage Inc

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Ok, it's just a difference of approach then. I still have a job fortunately since I work at the hospital, but I feel the unemployment is going to skyrocket fast. Something more consistent is going to be needed UBI / further expanded unemployment.

Nice talk y'all.
Same with me, I work for a huge Hospital System. We are busier than ever at the moment. I worked 60+ hours last week, Hourly. Granted every time we go in we risk catching something on a normal day, let alone all of this. My Wife may eventually become affected by all of this with her Job so hoping something can happen quick to hold everyone over, we are still paying all the bills normally. For now.
 

infinitys_7th

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Ok, it's just a difference of approach then. I still have a job fortunately since I work at the hospital, but I feel the unemployment is going to skyrocket fast. Something more consistent is going to be needed UBI / further expanded unemployment.

Nice talk y'all.
Same with me, I work for a huge Hospital System. We are busier than ever at the moment. I worked 60+ hours last week, Hourly. Granted every time we go in we risk catching something on a normal day, let alone all of this. My Wife may eventually become affected by all of this with her Job so hoping something can happen quick to hold everyone over, we are still paying all the bills normally. For now.
I wish you all the best and to be safe out there. My job should be intact as well as there are no plans to shut down my factory, but you all are in the line of action.

Thank you guys.
 
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cryptoadam

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theres going to be a lot of need for jobs even if things don't get back to normal. If it gets to that point government is going to need people to hand out rations, clean streets, etc...

Will these people getting this money want to do these tasks or do they expect the government to keep paying them until star bucks re opens or their advertising firm hires them back?

It would make more sense for Trump to start talking about putting people out of work into other jobs that can help with the virus. Maybe there is a need for people at testing centers to help with clean up or mundane tasks. Maybe grocery stores or pharmacies will need more people. Maybe delivery services will need more people. Someones gotta ship all that TP to the hoarders.

Even in this crisis there will be opportunities for people to a work and b help out the rest of society. It would make sense for the government to start planning for that and not for indefinite unemployment or Trump buxxs.
 

oagboghi2

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The Democrats are right. The $1200 isn't going to do shit. They NEED to quickly expand unemployment.

This is still the beginning it's going to get worse, be proactive not reactive.
Have you ever been on unemployment?

It takes weeks to get your first check, and chances are it won't be close to $1200, much less $600 dollars.

The point of this is to stabilize the economy. Giving the money solely to the unemployed is stupid.
 
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Sign

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Democrats are not fit to govern.


There was zero reason to not vote for this bill.


Looks like NYT was getting a little to close to reality with the headline.

 
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Pumpkin Seeds

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fuck both sides for trying to attach shit to emergency UBI

GOP tying in corporate welfare and the dmes their own special interest causes

Focus should be on individuals in public and the smaller businesses not built to handle the forced closings
 

Super Mario

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Anytime a Democrat opens their mouth about money/aid/etc, it doesn't make sense. It's only to pander to their dependent base. Those who are already broke weren't financially stable to begin with. There are jobs out there. There are business looking for temporary help. The Dem plan is never to go to work, it's to depend.
 
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My understanding is that the Ds are voting no because of 500 billion in bailouts to business like Boeing. Is that correct?

What exactly are they even voting on? There's been so many plans thrown out there I have no idea where they're even at right now.
 
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fuck both sides for trying to attach shit to emergency UBI

GOP tying in corporate welfare and the dmes their own special interest causes

Focus should be on individuals in public and the smaller businesses not built to handle the forced closings
So you don’t want the companies that provide the jobs to exist when the work force comes back to the jobs?
 

DeepEnigma

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China has also been in their pockets for over 30 years. This is the long game. WW3 trying to be won without a single shot being fired.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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China has also been in their pockets for over 30 years. This is the long game. WW3 trying to be won without a single shot being fired.
I'm not hopeful that Democrat voters will finally snap out of their stupor this time, but dangling money over their head and snatching it away has a pretty good shot of doing the trick.
 
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Rentahamster

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Trying to bundle a bunch of shit into one mega bill always fucks things up. They really need to partition legislation to take on one specific topic at at a time.
 

Pumpkin Seeds

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So you don’t want the companies that provide the jobs to exist when the work force comes back to the jobs?
The massive corps aren't in danger like the smaller businesses are. Some should have prepared for emergencies instead of inflating their stock dolalrs. Some are doing very well right now. Do you think Groceriers are struggling because of this or seeing an unexpected sales rise?

All the corporate bailout stuff has time to be figured out. People living check to check do not.
 
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The massive corps aren't in danger like the smaller businesses are. Some should have prepared for emergencies instead of inflating their stock dolalrs. Some are doing very well right now. Do you think Groceriers are struggling because of this or seeing an unexpected sales rise?

All the corporate bailout stuff has time to be figured out. People living check to check do not.
Put up some numbers or stop talking out of your fucking asshole.
 

Pumpkin Seeds

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Put up some numbers or stop talking out of your fucking asshole.

Indeed, one of the heftier spenders of recent years has been aerospace giant Boeing.

The company might seem an odd candidate for a big buyback programme. Its civil aviation business involves huge multiyear projects in which billions of dollars of capital are put at risk. The programme for the 787 Dreamliner, for instance, lasted eight years and cost $32bn. Yet Boeing has found the financial space to splurge on its own stock. Between 2013 and the end of the first quarter of this year, it retired a net 200m shares, handing back $43bn to holders. The number outstanding came down by 25 per cent. One reason it could was because of savings on the company’s latest aircraft programme, the now notorious 737 Max, grounded after two recent crashes killed 346 people. Instead of building a wholly new aircraft, Boeing simply bolted new fuel-efficient engines on to a tweaked existing airframe. That significantly reduced the airframe development costs of the project, according to company insiders. Boeing was able to redirect some of those “savings” to repurchase stock instead.
 
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The massive corps aren't in danger like the smaller businesses are. Some should have prepared for emergencies instead of inflating their stock dolalrs. Some are doing very well right now. Do you think Groceriers are struggling because of this or seeing an unexpected sales rise?

All the corporate bailout stuff has time to be figured out. People living check to check do not.
Exactly. Everyday Americans should be the priority of Congress. Sort them out first and then they can get together and help their precious Wall Street overlords.
 
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Help them out and have all their jobs disappear forever in the meantime.

Brilliant.
Did I say don't help big business? No I didn't. I said help the average worker first. They need more immediate help right now than Wall Street does.


Help people first. Help Wall Street right after that. That's what I'm saying.
 
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Zefah

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Did I say don't help big business? No I didn't. I said help the average worker first. They need more immediate help right now than Wall Street does.


Help people first. Help Wall Street right after that. That's what I'm saying.
I get where you're coming from, but I think calming the market fast is far more important for the long term than giving people a $1000 check. Both need to happen of course.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Did I say don't help big business? No I didn't. I said help the average worker first. They need more immediate help right now than Wall Street does.


Help people first. Help Wall Street right after that. That's what I'm saying.
If you don't help them now people will not have jobs to go back to.

Between the stimulus money and the unemployment expansion that has already occurred people have gotten a ton of help. The companies need to be secured in the meantime.

Democrats are stopping this critical bill over miniscule concerns such nationally stopping evictions which already defacto stopped - courts across the country are shut down. Local LE cannot evict someone without going through a court process, so people cannot be evicted anyway. Any governor who allowed such a thing would be run out of office. It's like they do not grasp the severity of the current situation.

Let alone bullshit emissions standards.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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If you don't help them now people will not have jobs to go back to.

Between the stimulus money and the unemployment expansion that has already occurred people have gotten a ton of help. The companies need to be secured in the meantime.

Democrats are stopping this critical bill over miniscule concerns such nationally stopping evictions which already defacto stopped - courts across the country are shut down. Local LE cannot evict someone without going through a court process, so people cannot be evicted anyway. Any governor who allowed such a thing would be run out of office. It's like they do not grasp the severity of the current situation.

Let alone bullshit emissions standards.
The Democrats want their fingerprints on it instead of letting the GOP get a "win".

But instead of cooperating they cross their arms and make demands, which is par for the course for the party.
 

infinitys_7th

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The Democrats want their fingerprints on it instead of letting the GOP get a "win".

But instead of cooperating they cross their arms and make demands, which is par for the course for the party.
I mean, they already got that. For the personal stimulus, this GOP plan is far more generous than any of the plans Democrats put together, all of which cut out the middle class.
 
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All Hail C-Webb

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I mean, they already got that. For the personal stimulus, this GOP plan is far more generous than any of the plans Democrats put together, all of which cut out the middle class.
The Democrats want to give $2000 per adult until things return to normal.
The Republicans want to provide a one time $1000 payment.

That's what people will see, and thats what we'll all remember come November.
 

Vicetrailia

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Did I say don't help big business? No I didn't. I said help the average worker first. They need more immediate help right now than Wall Street does.


Help people first. Help Wall Street right after that. That's what I'm saying.
We can do everything at the same time. Our officials aren't morons, they just prioritize differently.

They're pretty close now. Get rid of the waste, focus on the essentials.
 
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infinitys_7th

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The Democrats want to give $2000 per adult until things return to normal.
The Republicans want to provide a one time $1000 payment.

That's what people will see, and thats what we'll all remember come November.
There is no Democratic plan to give $2000 ongoing. Quit making up shit. Booker's plan preallocates (reduced) money in two more stages going out months in a situation that changes by the day, and provides much less money per child. Other Democrats want lower stimulus (around $1000) limited to people who make less than $55k-$65k because they think everyone else are millionaires.

That's what I'll always remember - being lumped in with "millionaires" as the country falls apart because I am in the middle class.

Not to mention that all their whining about people who (legally) do not file taxes getting a limited amount tactically neglects to mention that almost all people in that position are either dependents or on government aid already (Section 8, SSI, Medicaid, etc.).
 
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