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Opinion Drama The Jimquisition - It's Microsoft's Fault That Videogames Are Bad

Mar 8, 2018
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It was. Didn't have lootboxes until a year after, wonder why.
Right Killzone shadowfall had more impact than Halo 5, Gears, Forza, and Ryse pretty much every MS franchise had not simply MTXs but lootbox microtransactions.
Last of Us and Uncharted 4 also had MTX. MLB games are some of the top selling Sony games. Gran Turismo Sport has as much or even more impact than Forza (remember that Forza Motorsport 7 removed MTX and Forza Horizon 4 does not have any, while Gran Turismo Sport added them). Driveclub definitely was more popular than Ryse or Gears of War 4.
 

Three

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Last of Us and Uncharted 4 also had MTX. MLB games are some of the top selling Sony games. Gran Turismo Sport has as much or even more impact than Forza (remember that Forza Motorsport 7 removed MTX and Forza Horizon 4 does not have any, while Gran Turismo Sport added them). Driveclub definitely was more popular than Ryse or Gears of War 4.
Not sure where you're taking this other than ' leave MS alone, sony too' but if you followed the conversation and my reply you were talking about launch games and I mentioned loot boxes specifically.
Those games were not launch nor do they have lootboxes. Try reading back in the reply chain.
 
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RevenantX

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Bashing Xbox is getting really old now. We bashed them enough. Now save some for next gen if they fuk up again.


Also people blaming MS for MTX in 3rd party games now? Horse Armor in Oblivion and Fifa ultimate team is MS fault? Wow lol
 
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RevenantX

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Uncharted 4 gave out all its DLC for free, the MTX were for the DLCs, the base game didn't have such things. Technically they gave you free content you could use MTX in, not really 1 for 1 example. They were also all cosmetic just like the ones in Gears so ::shrugs::
Gears 5 DLC is also free plus dedicated servers. Cosmetic only MTX.

Uncharted 4 no dedicated servers lol
 
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Gears 5 DLC is also free plus dedicated servers. Cosmetic only MTX.

Uncharted 4 no dedicated servers lol
Missing the argument still, Jim is talking about who normalized it and it's been proven again and again Microsoft were the first console publishers to embrace MTX.

"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases.""

"Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."

 
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RevenantX

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Missing the argument still, Jim is talking about who normalized it and it's been proven again and again Microsoft were the first console publishers to embrace MTX.

"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases.""

"Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."


They first coz their console was first to offer good online functionality on console and option to download downloadable content. Third party devs used it to give additional content which varied from expansion packs to small cosmetic DLC. P

Sony followed them coz they saw it great opportunity to make money. If Sony cared about gamers then they should have said no to it but they embrace it too.. So Sony also to be blamed for allowing MTX on PS consoles.

And gamers also accepted it as they like it. People who complain are loud minority who just whine and bitch about everything today.
 
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They first coz their console was first to offer good online functionality on console and option to download downloadable content. Third party devs used it to give additional content which varied from expansion packs to small cosmetic DLC. P

Sony followed them coz they saw it great opportunity to make money. If Sony cared about gamers then they should have said no to it but they embrace it too.. So Sony also to be blamed for allowing MTX on PS consoles.

And gamers also accepted it as they like it. People who complain are loud minority who just whine and bitch about everything today.
Yeah, so you're not really getting the argument. The argument is who normalized it, this argument is divorced from any discussion about Sony being "bad too" because years later they would also begin implementing it, it's no different from saying Nintendo are also to blame for paid online because they started doing it more than a decade after Xbox started it. The trend began somewhere and was made popular by someone, it's like saying Half-Life is as much to blame for shooters becoming big as Doom, when Half-Life wouldn't have happened without Doom. Are you getting it?
 

Kagey K

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Yeah, so you're not really getting the argument. The argument is who normalized it, this argument is divorced from any discussion about Sony being "bad too" because years later they would also begin implementing it, it's no different from saying Nintendo are also to blame for paid online because they started doing it more than a decade after Xbox started it. The trend began somewhere and was made popular by someone, it's like saying Half-Life is as much to blame for shooters becoming big as Doom, when Half-Life wouldn't have happened without Doom. Are you getting it?
I guess there is a difference between normalizing it, accepting it and then aggressively pursuing it.

For all the shit you want to talk about the past, there is only one company aggressively pursuing paid exclusive DLC and timed exclusive DLC on their platform right now, especially from 3rd parties.

You can argue about who started the trend, but you can’t deny seeing who is trying to push the trend forward.
 
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I guess there is a difference between normalizing it, accepting it and then aggressively pursuing it.

For all the shit you want to talk about the past, there is only one company aggressively pursuing paid exclusive DLC and timed exclusive DLC on their platform right now, especially from 3rd parties.

You can argue about who started the trend, but you can’t deny seeing who is trying to push the trend forward.
You just switched from MTX to DLC to make an argument that's not actually pertaining to the question. God of War, Spider-Man and Days Gone have all been receiving totally free new content since launch. Gears of War 5 has microtransactions. If you want to talk about what's happening RIGHT NOW maybe be a little less disingenuous.
 

Kagey K

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You just switched from MTX to DLC to make an argument that's not actually pertaining to the question. God of War, Spider-Man and Days Gone have all been receiving totally free new content since launch. Gears of War 5 has microtransactions. If you want to talk about what's happening RIGHT NOW maybe be a little less disingenuous.
I can’t even be bothered anymore, such a waste of time to try to have an honest conversation.

🤷‍♂️

You do you, and I am going to keep enjoying what I like.
 
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I can’t even be bothered anymore, such a waste of time to try to have an honest conversation.

🤷‍♂️
What was honest about what you said? Destiny lost exclusive timed DLC for PS4, Call of Duty is releasing maps at the same time for everyone this year. Even if I accept you switching to DLC your argument is dust.
 

Kagey K

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What was honest about what you said? Destiny lost exclusive timed DLC for PS4, Call of Duty is releasing maps at the same time for everyone this year. Even if I accept you switching to DLC your argument is dust.
It’s not, there is still only one company exclusively pursuing that content and even if some companies reject it, it won’t stop them from trying to get more.

It doesn’t dust anything other then companies are getting smarter, but it doesn’t matter.

You obviously have your beliefs and that’s that.
 
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It’s not, there is still only one company exclusively pursuing that content and even if some companies reject it, it won’t stop them from trying to get more.

It doesn’t dust anything other then companies are getting smarter, but it doesn’t matter.

You obviously have your beliefs and that’s that.
Are you willing to prove your assertion? What 2019 playstation games have exclusive content tied to their platform? Can you name even 1?
 

Kagey K

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Are you willing to prove your assertion? What 2019 playstation games have exclusive content tied to their platform? Can you name even 1?
The day 1 advantage for COD PS4 players because they canceled the week 1st DLC.

If that doesn’t appease you then I will second it with Control by Remedy.

Are either of those to your liking?

They aren’t in 2019 they are in the last month.
 
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sol_bad

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Bashing Xbox is getting really old now. We bashed them enough. Now save some for next gen if they fuk up again.


Also people blaming MS for MTX in 3rd party games now? Horse Armor in Oblivion and Fifa ultimate team is MS fault? Wow lol
It's not really blaming MS for what 3rd parties do, it's more like blaming MS for normalising it. They are the platform owners and should be setting an example.

Hell, the platform owners could eradicate all this loot box and MTX shit in an instant if they really wanted to.
 
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The day 1 advantage for COD PS4 players because they canceled the week 1st DLC.

If that doesn’t appease you then I will second it with Control by Remedy.

Are either of those to your liking?

They aren’t in 2019 they are in the last month.
I legit didn't know about those, it proves your argument but the problem is your argument has nothing to do with MTX or even DLC now. Now it's about something else entirely. Nevermind that you're ignoring that this was about who normalized it not who does it worse now you're now talking about getting to play a game a day early or a dynamic theme and avatar for pre-ordring for PS4. This is like complaining about Gamestop having in-store rewards for buying there. It's really petty and has nothing to do with the actual discussion.
 

FranXico

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It’s not, there is still only one company exclusively pursuing that content and even if some companies reject it, it won’t stop them from trying to get more.

It doesn’t dust anything other then companies are getting smarter, but it doesn’t matter.

You obviously have your beliefs and that’s that.
Oh, so companies are only rejecting deals with Sony now. They could not have possibly also rejected deals with Microsoft for the last couple of years.

No, that can't be the case. Only Sony pursues DLC deals or other forms of exclusivity. I know.

You obviously have your beliefs and that’s that.
 

Kagey K

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I legit didn't know about those, it proves your argument but the problem is your argument has nothing to do with MTX or even DLC now. Now it's about something else entirely. Nevermind that you're ignoring that this was about who normalized it not who does it worse now you're now talking about getting to play a game a day early or a dynamic theme and avatar for pre-ordring for PS4. This is like complaining about Gamestop having in-store rewards for buying there. It's really petty and has nothing to do with the actual discussion.
K now we are just walking circles. Thanks for your time and discussion, but I don’t want to repeat this 300 times.
 
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K now we are just walking circles. Thanks for your time and discussion, but I don’t want to repeat this 300 times.
I'd prefer it were in circles, a circle would mean we get back to the actual topic instead of complaining that PS4 players get a free avatar of square jaw lady.
 
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Kagey K

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Oh, so companies are only rejecting deals with Sony now. They could not have possibly also rejected deals with Microsoft for the last couple of years.

No, that can't be the case. Only Sony pursues DLC deals or other forms of exclusivity. I know.
Phil has said actively since he took over he doesn’t do those side pieces for games as he never thought they were fair. They either go for all the game or none of it.

So far it has been true.

Take it for what you will, but all the times DLC deals were before he was in charge.m
 
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Now who’s being disingenuous?
I would legit prefer we were arguing about MTX because it's the thread topic. That's not being disingenuous. I also legit think complaining about dynamic themes, avatars and one extra day early access to a game are way smaller issues than what MTX does to a game.
 

Kagey K

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I would legit prefer we were arguing about MTX because it's the thread topic. That's not being disingenuous. I also legit think complaining about dynamic themes, avatars and one extra day early access to a game are way smaller issues than what MTX does to a game.
So tell me about Gears MTX and how egregious they are then. They obviously have to be more predatory then holding a part of a game hostage from other players. Right?

Explain to me like I’m 5 what’s going on in Gears right now.
 
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So tell me about Gears MTX and how egregious they are then. They obviously have to be more predatory then holding a part of a game hostage from other players. Right?

Explain to me like I’m 5 what’s going on in Gears right now.
The stuff for Control isn't part of the game, it's an avatar for your profile and a dynamic theme for your background OUTSIDE THE GAME. There is no content in-game that's exclusive to PS4.
 

Kagey K

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I would legit prefer we were arguing about MTX because it's the thread topic. That's not being disingenuous. I also legit think complaining about dynamic themes, avatars and one extra day early access to a game are way smaller issues than what MTX does to a game.
It’s not the thread topic the topic literally is “Gaming is bad, because of MS by Jim Sterling” it leaves a lot of wiggle room as far as being on topic goes.
 

Kagey K

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The stuff for Control isn't part of the game, it's an avatar for your profile and a dynamic theme for your background OUTSIDE THE GAME. There is no content in-game that's exclusive to PS4.
It a full DLC story for 6 Months to a year. What?

Are you even aware of what you are arguing for or against at this point?
 
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It a full DLC story for 6 Months to a year. What?

Are you even aware of what you are arguing for or against at this point?
The first link I went to just mentioned an avatar and dynamic theme, I see what you're talking about now. It's definitely a practice we could do without and it's nice that Xbox no longer does it but they were of course the pioneers unless you were asleep at the wheel last gen and missed how franchises like Call of Duty were handled?

It’s not the thread topic the topic literally is “Gaming is bad, because of MS by Jim Sterling” it leaves a lot of wiggle room as far as being on topic goes.
Wouldn't addressing the actual reasons he uses be more helpful than just reacting to a title of a video you don't watch, though?
 
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FranXico

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I would legit prefer we were arguing about MTX because it's the thread topic. That's not being disingenuous. I also legit think complaining about dynamic themes, avatars and one extra day early access to a game are way smaller issues than what MTX does to a game.
I think the intention is driving the point that Sony are no saints home. But we all know how greedy they are, and it frankly is irrelevant to the discussion of how these specific practices are encouraged or become standard.

If you abstract yourself from which companies did what, it's really quite simple: company A starts doing a bad practice. Company B hesitates, because consumers might backlash. Against the better judgement of consumers, the market share of company A either grows or is unaffected. Company B decides to go ahead and do the same. Because money.

It has to be said, companies A and B also copy each other's good practices every now and then (when it doesn't hurt the bottom line). For good publicity, obviously. Not because they are "good guys".
 
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Kagey K

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The first link I went to just mentioned an avatar and dynamic theme, I see what you're talking about now. It's definitely a practice we could do without and it's nice that Xbox no longer does it but they were of course the pioneers unless you were asleep at the wheel last gen and missed how franchises like Call of Duty were handled?



Wouldn't addressing the actual reasons he uses be more helpful than just reacting to a title of a video you don't watch, though?
I said it was shit when Xbox did it last gen and it’s more shit now.

I am addressing some of the reasons he listed, MTX was not the only one and what he listed as MTX can loosely be used as timed DLC exclusives now.

His argument is not infallible and the topic can’t be narrowed to what you want to make it about.

Plus you still haven’t told me about Gears transactions and why they are so terrible.

I know I asked you to explain it to me like I’m 5.
 
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I said it was shit when Xbox did it last gen and it’s more shit now.

I am addressing some of the reasons he listed, MTX was not the only one and what he listed as MTX can loosely be used as timed DLC exclusives now.

His argument is not infallible and the topic can’t be narrowed to what you want to make it about.
Didn't call his argument infallible, the problem is you're not addressing it. A story DLC isn't a MTX, that's not how the term is defined. His argument was also nearly entirely about how this ball got rolling not games releasing right now, he blames this stuff being in current games because we all allowed Microsoft alongside EA and Activision to normalize it. You're just going "Sony bad because Control has exclusive content" which feels like the sort of impotent anger you get when someone can't counter the actual argument being discussed, it's a deflection and I'm sorry I was dumb enough to engage in it. I might as well argue back Microsoft pushing live service gaming harder than Sony makes them worse than Sony, but that would also be off topic from the argument and just indulging you in what you actually want here, which is console wars.
 

Kagey K

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Didn't call his argument infallible, the problem is you're not addressing it. A story DLC isn't a MTX, that's not how the term is defined. His argument was also nearly entirely about how this ball got rolling not games releasing right now, he blames this stuff being in current games because we all allowed Microsoft alongside EA and Activision to normalize it. You're just going "Sony bad because Control has exclusive content" which feels like the sort of impotent anger you get when someone can't counter the actual argument being discussed, it's a deflection and I'm sorry I was dumb enough to engage in it. I might as well argue back Microsoft pushing live service gaming harder than Sony makes them worse than Sony, but that would also be off topic from the argument and just indulging you in what you actually want here, which is console wars.
See that’s projecting.

What is the difference between a MTX (microtransaction) or a DLC (Full transaction?) They both take money from your account for in game stuff.

How do you differentiate between a micro transaction and a DLC?

When are they good? When are they fair?

Again 4th time asking, tell me about Gears MTX and how they are unfair. Explain like I’m 5.
 
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See that’s projecting.

What is the difference between a MTX (microtransaction) or a DLC (Full transaction?) They both take money from your account for in game stuff.

How do you differentiate between a micro transaction and a DLC?

When are they good? When are they fair?

Again 4th time asking, tell me about Gears MTX and how they are unfair. Explain like I’m 5.
I can explain to you like you're 5 that arguing about the difference between MTX and DLC is a totally different argument. If you think there's no difference between say getting an 8 hour DLC for 20 bucks and getting a suit of armor for 12 dollars then I really don't know what to tell you.

I didn't say Gears 5 has unfair or even egregious MTX, I just said it has MTX. Sony first party games of late don't have MTX. Gears is arguably the second biggest Xbox franchise and it has them, their biggest, Halo, also has them. Sony left them out for Spider-Man, God of War and even Days Gone, which are their most recent exclusives. I'd say the argument is having them at all is worse than not having them.
 

Kagey K

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I can explain to you like you're 5 that arguing about the difference between MTX and DLC is a totally different argument. If you think there's no difference between say getting an 8 hour DLC for 20 bucks and getting a suit of armor for 12 dollars then I really don't know what to tell you.

I didn't say Gears 5 has unfair or even egregious MTX, I just said it has MTX. Sony first party games of late don't have MTX. Gears is arguably the second biggest Xbox franchise and it has them, their biggest, Halo, also has them. Sony left them out for Spider-Man, God of War and even Days Gone, which are their most recent exclusives. I'd say the argument is having them at all is worse than not having them.
Either that is a lie, or you are changing what a Microtransaction means on the spot.

The Last of Us, MLB, GT Sport all had micro transactions and those are the least offenders.

Let’s not pretend Sony hasn’t tried it.
 
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Either that is a lie, or you are changing what a Microtransaction means on the spot.

The Last of Us, MLB, GT Sport all had micro transactions and those are the least offenders.

Let’s not pretend Sony hasn’t tried it.
Didn't pretend they haven't tried it, that was never the argument. I said Sony first party games OF LATE. Considering you're beating your chest over Phil Spencer ending platform timed exclusive DLC I'm pretty sure I can point out Sony hasn't been doing MTX lately, right? Or are only you allowed to say something is irrelevant because they stopped doing it?
 

Kagey K

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Didn't pretend they haven't tried it, that was never the argument. I said Sony first party games OF LATE. Considering you're beating your chest over Phil Spencer ending platform timed exclusive DLC I'm pretty sure I can point out Sony hasn't been doing MTX lately, right? Or are only you allowed to say something is irrelevant because they stopped doing it?
Ok then.... they aren’t doing timed DLC anymore, until, Control last month, they aren’t doing Microtransactions until? Solid record to go on.

I think we have derailed this thread enough.

So I’m going to leave it with this thought.

Even if you believe the one that started it needs to finish it, this has gone on for way too long and it’s time everyone stops being divided on wether it’s an MTX or a DLC.

We as a community have to come together, instead of splitting in half or we will all be fighting from the wrong side while they rule us from atop.
 
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Ok then.... they aren’t doing timed DLC anymore, until, Control last month, they aren’t doing Microtransactions until? Solid record to go on.

I think we have derailed this thread enough.

So I’m going to leave it with this thought.

Even if you believe the one that started it needs to finish it, this has gone on for way too long and it’s time everyone stops being divided on wether it’s an MTX or a DLC.

We as a community have to come together, instead of splitting in half or we will all be fighting from the wrong side while they rule us from atop.
I mean, I could also say Microsoft isn't doing timed DLC anymore until... because who the Hell knows what happens in the future, it's not what I'm arguing based on and it shouldn't be yours.

I didn't say anything about how Microsoft should be the one to stop MTX because they started it, that sounds like a straw man. I don't think many people are divided on the difference between MTX and DLC. People loved the giant DLCs Witcher 3 got for instance and hated the addition of loot boxes to say Star Wars: Battlefront or Call of Duty. There's no war going on, from Jim Sterling or anyone else against the existence of DLC. There's sometimes complaints about day 1 DLC because in order for it to be day 1 it means they cut something out of the game to sell you alongside it but it's not the same as MTX where many view MTX as always bad no matter what.

I'm not seeing how your posts are meant to encourage unity before this point.
 
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FranXico

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Ok then.... they aren’t doing timed DLC anymore, until, Control last month, they aren’t doing Microtransactions until? Solid record to go on.
He said Sony stopped with MTX, not DLC deals.

We as a community have to come together, instead of splitting in half or we will all be fighting from the wrong side while they rule us from atop.
Good that you are aware of those things (despite the posts above). Sony are not our friends, Shu is not our buddy. Microsoft are not our friends, Spencer is not our buddy either.
 
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Kagey K

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I mean, I could also say Microsoft isn't doing timed DLC anymore until... because who the Hell knows what happens in the future, it's not what I'm arguing based on and it shouldn't be yours.

I didn't say anything about how Microsoft should be the one to stop MTX because they started it, that sounds like a straw man. I don't think many people are divided on the difference between MTX and DLC. People loved the giant DLCs Witcher 3 got for instance and hated the addition of loot boxes to say Star Wars: Battlefront or Call of Duty. There's no war going on, from Jim Sterling or anyone else against the existence of DLC. There's sometimes complaints about day 1 DLC because in order for it to be day 1 it means they cut something out of the game to sell you alongside it but it's not the same as MTX where many view MTX as always bad no matter what.

I'm not seeing how your posts are meant to encourage unity before this point.
🤷‍♂️ Why do you lie to yourself?

You know what you are, just be it if you need to.

I’d rather talk to that guy then this fake you,
 
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He said Sony stopped with MTX, not DLC deals.



Good that you are aware of those things. Sony are not our friends, Shu is not our buddy. Microsoft are not our friends, Spencer is not our buddy either.
Well, that ends that friendship, gonna cancel getting beers and watching the game with him Sunday, had no idea he wasn't really my friend.

Jokes aside can I seem like a contrarian ass by saying that I don't hold to the "corporations are evil" idea. They all need to focus on their bottom line sure but they're also all made up of people, those people aren't inherently bad because of where they work and we can never know for sure who in what corporation genuinely cares about the consumer and who simply wants to exploit us. We can know how it appears, though. I also think video gaming is a healthy business industry, especially compared to say the way the internet is, where your cable provider tends to be 1 of 2 choices and even then only when you're lucky, Facebook has nothing even scratching it, it's not like the race between PS4 and Xbox 1 and Switch, it's more like David and Goliath with these services. But you'll actually see people argue for one platform for all games and I can't help but wonder how they don't know that stuff like Gamepass being so cheap and convenient or PS4/Switch making such prestigious AAA games are things occurring due to competition, imagine if Facebook had to improve to compete with anything else? But instead we have an industry where even EA scaled back on their aggressive practices due to fan outrage but I could see people arguing it's not getting better but worse, where I see Sony first party titles without MTX someone else sees how Nintendo recently adopted paid online, where I see the convenience of Gamepass others see stuff like Uplay's service attempting to break up the market into so many small vendors it adds up to the price of a cable subscription. Where I see Gears 5 getting free DLC maps someone else sees Fallout 76... existing... it's give and take and there's potentially as much bad as good but it's still better than many other similar industries.
 

Sp3eD

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My feelings on two things being argued in the last couple pages.

Paid online - MS definitely started the trend with Xbox original launch of the online pay gate in late 2002. It had some really cool features at the time with the first package having a headset forcing people to make voice chat a semi standard. It also allowed for game patches to get to the level that pc users were enjoying for years (which I understand that day 1 patch shit is the negative from this but pc games did that throughout the late 90’s anyway.). My issue always was with the online play as I played every popular PC FPS for free before and after their service. thelastword thelastword has an excellent post 2 pages back that goes over the feeling of live vs PSN during the 2006. - 2011 period by both sides which makes the mantra of Sony and Nintendo Happily jumping at the money for this seem disingenuous.

the entire time watching people say that I just wanted to point out that Live again launched in 2002, Paid PSN launched in 2013, and paid Nintendo online launched in 2018. it took a major competitor one and a half console generations to follow suit and pay gate the online that Microsoft started ELEVEN YEARS prior. SIXTEEN YEARS for Nintendo. That is a massive amount of time to stay off of a sure fire money making industry trend. I impossible for me to even see how people can’t place the blame on MS for that. I was a Live subscriber for 11 years so I can absolutely put myself as part of the problem there

Micro transactions - though MS didn’t start the personal wave of horse armor or fifa packs in their games, the 360’s Microsoft points were absolutely the cause of it. Please correct me if I am wrong but I remember the points first being fairly predatory due to the fact you were forced into buying odd amounts as the currency wasn’t a penny to point ratio. This allowed for extra leftovers to sit in an account which is where the original micro transaction for console games was born. Why wouldn’t companies put out miniscule things to soak up that extra 40-80 points just hanging around From that 600 point xbla game you bought with 800 point balance in your account.

Sony and Nintendo are not free from scorn from some shitty stuff they have done, but those two things in the early to mid 2000’s definitely brought an idea of things to come in the future pretty much brought to you entirely by MS
 
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You're right about the points, I linked an article where they propose such a tactic before launching the 360 and propose the idea of needing to purchase points in certain amounts, the remainder you'd want to use somewhere.
 
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Son_of_Zardoz

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May 15, 2017
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You guys just can't help it, regardless of when the other console makers did it, they still did it. MS didn't normalize this stuff FOR OTHER CONSOLES. Remember how small of a market share the original Xbox had? How did that standardize it? Even with the 360 generation nobody forced Sony or Nintendo to do it. You can say people are "but Sony'ing" it but that is the entire basis of this conversation is that those companies were "but MS'ing" it when they decided to do it.

Look at Sony's response to the terrible launch of the Xbox One--could Sony not had/continued the same stance towards paying for online play? It only became industry standard because the market leader (Sony) decided to do it. Play the denial game all you want but you can't blame a competitor for what your company of choice does.
 

FranXico

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Dec 7, 2010
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You guys just can't help it, regardless of when the other console makers did it, they still did it. MS didn't normalize this stuff FOR OTHER CONSOLES. Remember how small of a market share the original Xbox had? How did that standardize it? Even with the 360 generation nobody forced Sony or Nintendo to do it. You can say people are "but Sony'ing" it but that is the entire basis of this conversation is that those companies were "but MS'ing" it when they decided to do it.

Look at Sony's response to the terrible launch of the Xbox One--could Sony not had/continued the same stance towards paying for online play? It only became industry standard because the market leader (Sony) decided to do it. Play the denial game all you want but you can't blame a competitor for what your company of choice does.
Would the market leader have chosen to do so if the second largest player didn't do it for 11 years, bringing in revenue and with the backing of the media?
Would Sony have come up with that first by themselves, without MS doing it first for a whole decade, and still seeing their market share grow? No, they wouldn't have.

And this has nothing to do with "forcing" them. It's about a precedent being set.

Sony, like any other company, likes money, and MS showed them it can be done. You are the one who doesn't want to accept this.

None of the above means I excuse Sony for this shit. It means I know where it came from.
 
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Land of the OKC Thunder
PC/Mobile games as well as sites like Facebook normalized microtransactions with things like, "free to play" more than anything Microsoft has ever done. Facebook has had a strong microtransaction presence with games like Farmville and Candy Crush. Companies like EA, Valve and Blizzard exacerbated it. People were paying real money for items as far back as Everquest, which was released in 1999. The rising cost to make video games didn't help either. Microtransactions, like it or not, are a popular method to offset game development costs and a means to present games at a lower cost to the consumer. Blaming MS for normalizing microtransactions is silly. I'm also firmly in the camp of if the microtransactions are for cosmetics only or for a separate playlist specifically with microtransactions in mind, I don't really give a rip. I'm not required to play or pay. Therefore I'm not really outraged by it either. It's a free country and i support capitalism. If you really want to get pissy about it, blame the people who don't mind paying a bunch of money for extras.
I impossible for me to even see how people can’t place the blame on MS for that. I was a Live subscriber for 11 years so I can absolutely put myself as part of the problem there
Sorry im just not buying it. You mean to tell me that you can't understand why a company that was trying to break into the console industry with little global support might use another method to stay successful? If microsoft was selling the original xbox at a loss, what other method might they use to keep from having to close their xbox division and to differentiate themselves from the competition? Hmm let me think. And if that prevented the xbox division from going under then I'm more than okay with it. It's obviously up to the consumer to decide if something is worth it or not. To me xbox live was fantastic and an experience Sony and Nintendo had no answer for.
 

RevenantX

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Mar 15, 2018
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It's not really blaming MS for what 3rd parties do, it's more like blaming MS for normalising it. They are the platform owners and should be setting an example.

Hell, the platform owners could eradicate all this loot box and MTX shit in an instant if they really wanted to.
Sony should have set example
by removing MTX from all of their games. I mean they promote themselves as for the players :p


Mobile and Facebook made MTX popular not MS. You guys just using this topic again to bash MS
 
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Sony should have set example
by removing MTX from all of their games. I mean they promote themselves as for the players :p


Mobile and Facebook made MTX popular not MS. You guys just using this topic again to bash MS

Revisionist history. What was the last Sony exclusive with MTX, btw?