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Social The Joker controversy

lifa-cobex

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The Joker releases next month and with it has dragged controversy from the media that it might fuel various beliefs around various people.
Supposedly it might even create the potential for mass shootings according to the US military....

Various media outlets have been quite heavy towards how dangerous this movie could be.
This escalated to the point of pissing off Joaquin Phoenix where he left the interview after being asked if he was “worried” it would inspire “exactly the kind of people it’s about, with potentially tragic results”.

Subsequently Todd Phillips (Director) was asked "Do you understand why people might be a little scared going into it?"
What the interviewer is refraining was the aurora shooting when the Dark Knight was released. The media at the time believed the shooters beliefs were structured around the Joker in some way.

Todd Phillips replayed that "The shooting was a horrible situation. But it wasn't something to be blamed on the movie. In-fact if you do your research, the shooter wasn't going in as the joker. It was miss reported."
He goes on to ask "Why is a film like John Wick celebrated for having numerous deaths and praised for it. Why is my movie being held to different standards."


Most of this crap has passed me by. I didn't relies the media was kicking off about this film.
I was only aware of the usual temper tantrums or ReeeNonce Era. (But them what else is new).

I just caught up with all this in the morning and i'm left scratching my head. Wtf are these people on?
Where did this start?
What was the instigator?
Did people start pissing themselves when they witnessed Jared Leto playing the Joker in trailers?
I get the the media is generally regarded as an absolute dumpster fire and will over hype anything for the clicks.
Do these people not understand that's it's not the film that drives people over the edge. It's the fucking media surrounding it.
(Probably do. Probably bank on it.)
Edit:
When I say sending people over the edge. I don't mean mass shootings. I mean pissing people off to a point of acting out.
I was referring to Joaquin Phoenix walking out in rage during the interview.


But I honestly don't get where this started from? What was the spark to ignite the flame?

Don't get me wrong. Todd Phillips may well be pleased about all the attention as the progressives doesn't seem to understand the Streisand effect.

*side note,
I'm a huge fan of Natural Born Killers and it's message about the general media.
 
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Tesseract

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psychosis and schizoaffective disorders are real and can devastate anyone's personality

i think a lot of people wanna look away because deep down they know we're all capable of great evils, truth is good people go bad all the time and there's no easy way to account for it

there's nothing new here, doom and kmfdm were to blame for columbine

 
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As of right now, the only one making this sort of connection is the salivating media and their attachment to a narrative.
Logically, they are the ones actively creating the thing they claim to fear.

Should it ever come to pass then they will be so busy tooting their "Told you so!" horns, comparing themselves to Batman, writing hit-pieces and blaming everyone else, they'll conveniently skip over how they were the ones that started this.

If you ever need an example of how the MSM seeks to drive and shape news instead of simply reporting it, here it is.
 
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Mohonky

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I am actually becoming more intrigued by this movie.

Im actually curious to see just how violent this movie is given the hysteria behind it.
 
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The media does not cause mass shootings so I'm not sure what you're on about, OP. Media that overhypes things for clicks exists in every country. Yet the vast majority of countries do not have mass shootings like the US or indeed gun violence in general.
 

Birdo

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Daily reminder that the Aurora shooter wasn't inspired by the Joker, didn't dress as the Joker, and never called himself the Joker.

The "Joker" stuff was all coined by the press, due to the fact that he shot up a cinema showing a Batman film.
 

lifa-cobex

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The media does not cause mass shootings so I'm not sure what you're on about, OP. Media that overhypes things for clicks exists in every country. Yet the vast majority of countries do not have mass shootings like the US or indeed gun violence in general.
I probably worded that wrong.
When I say sending people over the edge. I don't mean mass shootings I mean pissing people off to a point of acting out.
I was referring to Joaquin Phoenix walking out in rage during the interview.
 
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Nymphae

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"Why is a film like John Wick celebrated for having numerous deaths and praised for it. Why is my movie being held to different standards."
I get his point, but it's treated differently because it's badass righteous revengeance against mobsters, not the slow and tortured path to insanity where many innocents die.
 
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I probably worded that wrong.
When I say sending people over the edge. I don't mean mass shootings I mean pissing people off to a point of acting out.
I was referring to Joaquin Phoenix walking out in rage during the interview.
Ah. In that case I agree with you.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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The ideologues behind this "controversy" don't like any media that does not preach the "correct" message. It's a soft moral authoritarianism much like how Christians had a strangehold over what was "publicly acceptable" for many years in the USA. Both are coming from an ideological / religious mindset, not a civil one.

There is no controversy. The "controversy" is that this movie is "normalizing" and "providing a platform for" someone who resorts to lashing out against society. It explores themes of being wrongly characterized by your peers. Part of the Joker's allure is that he is wholly insane, but he is also very perceptive about the dark side of human nature. It's why he has so many witticisms and sharp observations. That's the character. A well-written villain will often make the reader/viewer think to themselves "you know, you have a point". Luring the viewer to empathize with the villain is a common story mechanic. It makes for good writing.

None of these ideas are new to cinema (or literature, or games). It seems that because of the political climate, these censors feel uneasy about a movie that inspires the viewer to sympathize with the Joker. To them, the Joker is the misunderstood cis white male who is smeared as a "bigot", and they don't want audiences to empathize with that kind of person. They don't want Joker talking sense into real political issues.

It's a fictional supervillain story. What made these ideologues such puritans?

My goodness, it's as if we're censoring Dungeons & Dragons again. "This film might make certain people lash out, so it's better if we just..." *snip*
 

DunDunDunpachi

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And Marilyn Manson too. He had a small but good interview with Michael Moore about it.

It's like a prophecy of the current climate, except it's coming from the Left this time.

The clip of the blue-shirt at the beginning ranting and raving about "we're not saying everyone who listens to Marilyn Manson will do these things... BUT SOME WILL" made be laugh. Goodness, the Left has truly become a religion because that is the exact same logic they use now.

"We're not saying everyone who uses the :messenger_ok: is using it as a hate symbol... BUT SOME WILL"
 

lifa-cobex

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The ideologues behind this "controversy" don't like any media that does not preach the "correct" message. It's a soft moral authoritarianism much like how Christians had a strangehold over what was "publicly acceptable" for many years in the USA. Both are coming from an ideological / religious mindset, not a civil one.

There is no controversy. The "controversy" is that this movie is "normalizing" and "providing a platform for" someone who resorts to lashing out against society. It explores themes of being wrongly characterized by your peers. Part of the Joker's allure is that he is wholly insane, but he is also very perceptive about the dark side of human nature. It's why he has so many witticisms and sharp observations. That's the character. A well-written villain will often make the reader/viewer think to themselves "you know, you have a point". Luring the viewer to empathize with the villain is a common story mechanic. It makes for good writing.

None of these ideas are new to cinema (or literature, or games). It seems that because of the political climate, these censors feel uneasy about a movie that inspires the viewer to sympathize with the Joker. To them, the Joker is the misunderstood cis white male who is smeared as a "bigot", and they don't want audiences to empathize with that kind of person. They don't want Joker talking sense into real political issues.

It's a fictional supervillain story. What made these ideologues such puritans?

My goodness, it's as if we're censoring Dungeons & Dragons again. "This film might make certain people lash out, so it's better if we just..." *snip*
I get the media spin things up. But usually it's based on something.
Take Catherine Full Body. Supposedly it has a transsexual character (Don't know. Haven't played it). But I instantly recognize where the screeching is going to come from, what it's going to be about and how it might evolve.

I don't get what it's stemmed from for this film.
If it literally the Aurora shooting that the media got wrong?
 

GreyHorace

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I'm actually down with this controversy. If only because it may wake up the stupid Hollywood elite that the woke Far-lefties are not their allies.

You really think directors and screenwriters will stand for their creativity being stifled by a bunch of SJWs? Todd Phillips has already voiced his displeasure at all the moral gatekeeping, as has Dave Chappelle. Let's hope they're not the last.
 

#Phonepunk#

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It is bullshit. Glorifying violence is something that happens in every movie including the so called woke ones. Noble suicide is one of the worst modern tropes that constantly gets a free pass

Ultimately people are responsible for their own actions. It is cowardly to shift it to a piece of media or something.

Joker movie is the new Judas Priest record. Remember 30 years ago they said backwards satanic messages in metal records caused suicides. They are full of shit busy bodies who just want to content police everything
 
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Somnium

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There is no "controversy". It's manufactured as fuck, come on now. Joker has been a well known fictional murdering psychopath in pop culture for decades.
It's flavor of the month outrage/clickbait for media publications.

As Todd Phillips has already put it perfectly:
 
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DrJohnGalt

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Agreed but on the flip side, this could be a self fulfilling prophecy.
Yep. What better way for somebody already desperate for attention to get his 20 minutes than to do it in a way that uses the media hype to amplify the act? Everything is already done but the actual violence.

If nothing happens, the people opposed to this film could say they took a moral stand. If something does happen, they can say "I told you so". It's a win/win for them.

I'm hearing the outrage is that 1) the violence is too real 2) the Joker has a sympathetic back story, making his violence more relatable (or at least understandable) and 3) the movie glorifies said violence. Weren't similar talking points used about other films, like Natural Born Killers?
 
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Doc Honk

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Joker movie is the new Judas Priest record. Remember 30 years ago they said backwards satanic messages in metal records caused suicides.
Su nioj, su nioj.

But seriously, as DunDun mentioned above, villains are best when they inspire us, and the Joker has white-face.

Which, coming out of the minds of educated adult journalists influencing international public opinion, is sad and stupid.

As OP wondered, how the hell did this dumb idea gain credence?
 
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jufonuk

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Hmm, ok then simple idea, hear me out..... restrict and ban gun use...so loads of school shooting aren't enough to freak them out?, but a comic movie is??

okaaaaaaaaaay
 
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Rock And Roll

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As of right now, the only one making this sort of connection is the salivating media and their attachment to a narrative.
Logically, they are the ones actively creating the thing they claim to fear.

Should it ever come to pass then they will be so busy tooting their "Told you so!" horns, comparing themselves to Batman, writing hit-pieces and blaming everyone else, they'll conveniently skip over how they were the ones that started this.

If you ever need an example of how the MSM seeks to drive and shape news instead of simply reporting it, here it is.
That is exactly how I feel about this. If the movie comes out and some retard decides to go on a "joker" inspired spree, the blame is going to be on the media for perpetuating this shit.
 
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cr0w

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If no one was planning a shooting before, they may be now just to fulfill the media's prophecy out of spite and get more eyes on themselves thanks to the publicity surrounding the movie's release. They need a boogeyman so bad that they're perfectly okay with manufacturing one, and what better opportunity than a movie made by Marvel/Disney's direct competitor?
 

-Arcadia-

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I think that if a movie is at danger of making people snap, and inspiring them to feel kinship with and follow the steps of the Joker...

Then there’s something unprecedentedly wrong with public mental health, which requires a comprehensive cultural and social rethink.

It is, however, easier to just push whatever your particular agenda may be, and write articles about white males to make yourself feel good, than actually confront the problem and be an agent for change.
 

MastAndo

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I find it odd that people are concerned that showings of the Joker could be subject to a mass shooting, as an unhinged white male might be so inspired by the film to want to commit such an act. I mean, that would mean they would have had to already seen the film to be motivated by it, no? In that case, just beat the potentially murderous incel crowd and go to an early showing opening weekend.

Further more, I also think if you're so moved by a film that you're inspired to commit actual murder on a mass scale, you'll probably be more inclined to actually just want to sit there and watch it even a second and third time, which is tough to do when you're shooting fellow movie goers.
 

Merzbear

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I mean, on one hand I think it's petty and sort of feels like people are being paid off to cause a stir regarding this movie. On the other hand I won't think badly of you not going to see it on opening night in America in fear of being lit up.

I'll be seeing it though, probably opening night if I can.
 

Xaero Gravity

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I mean, on one hand I think it's petty and sort of feels like people are being paid off to cause a stir regarding this movie. On the other hand I won't think badly of you not going to see it on opening night in America in fear of being lit up.

I'll be seeing it though, probably opening night if I can.
People shooting up a theatre due to being inspired by the movie didn't even cross my mind until these idiots started running around and screaming about it.
 

MacReady13

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I don't get why these people are looking towards this movie as an inspiration for white male violence when literally anyone can turn on netflix or pop in a dvd of the classic film Taxi Driver and see the same fucking thing...
 
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This supposed "Controversy" is also not a way of marketing the movie?.

I mean, we know it's fiction, but it's up to people to differentiate between reality and fantasy.
 

Tesseract

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I mean, on one hand I think it's petty and sort of feels like people are being paid off to cause a stir regarding this movie. On the other hand I won't think badly of you not going to see it on opening night in America in fear of being lit up.

I'll be seeing it though, probably opening night if I can.
see it opening night, don't let these guys win

strength and honor, brother