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[TropicalFish]

Why would you be happy with censoring something you wouldn't buy it?

I do want to buy it though. I thought that was inferred from the first sentence in that post?

I love the art direction, the battle system (the ui looks sleek and gorgeous as well), and ost. It's just my one major complaint with the game is significant enough to dissuade me from buying it.

 

[Strings]

Typical disGust garbage.

Gust is usually significantly better than this There's some annoying bath stuff in the game too. It's a real shame.

Gust put its name on the map with the Atelier series, and there's alot to love about the series. The music, the tone, the deep gameplay systems. But it's really hard for me to recommend to people who aren't already used to anime tropes because there's completely pointless scenes of nudity in them.

Eh, outside of the reoccuring one-off swimsuit gag in each game (which is thankfully brief and typically pretty self-aware/funny), I'm not exactly sure what you mean (at least in relation to Atelier)? Blue Reflection is a little different, in that you can perform a bath action which gives you these random skeevy camera angles and no stat benefit.

 

[afreaknamedpete]

Gust is really the poster child for an increasingly common problem of having games that would otherwise be perfectly wholesome things you can share with children ruined by unwholesome things involving children.

Gust put its name on the map with the Atelier series, and there's alot to love about the series. The music, the tone, the deep gameplay systems. But it's really hard for me to recommend to people who aren't already used to anime tropes because there's completely pointless scenes of nudity in them. There's one recent Gust game called Ar NoSurge that has some fascinating setting and story beats and one heroic character that looks like a 10 year old with a thong that wasn't even put on all the way.

It's kinda frustrating cause it's difficult to tell what the hell the creators when thinking when making it. I can understand and respect what designers are trying to do when making a game like DOA Extreme or Senran Kagura. There's no illusions about hypersexualization in them, and people buying them have no illusions about them. Even if you're buying them for the gameplay the expectation of the sexualized aspects is made clear front and center.

But you have all these Gust games with all these great things about them with just surprise, casual underage nudity and it just feels offputting and unnecessary. In some respects Blue Reflection is a move in the right trend by making everything more overt, but in many ways that's kind of a shame. From what I can tell the game at least as an amazing soundtrack.

I want Gust to have a reputation for making games with amazing sound direction, for feel-good stories, for whatever mad BS worldbuilding Tsuchiya thinks of next. Not for 20 dollar swimsuit DLCs, high impact sexual violence and lolicon.

 

[purseowner]

This isn't exactly a new thing, and I'm surprised that a Gust game is the target of choice.

At least they put effort into well-fleshed-out female protagonists.

 

[Aizo]

Once again reality is going to pop in its ugly head and say that swimsuits and posing go hand in hand. Its a common trope whenever swimsuits are involved. Now if one gets aroused or not thats a whole different story which has to do with the problem said individual has.

Honestly its not too had to go digging up "shock value" articles on anything if you search for it then go "the sky is falling" while acting shocked. Its no different for any country. Hell for example with the way Kotaku used to write about Japan you would think the country is only filled with Otaku Waifu Full Body Pillows, Panty Vending Machines and Pocky. Oh and Arcades.

I could dig up shit that would make you not want to leave your apartment honestly in terms of crime news and other such. Would make you think the country is filled with psychopathic murders waiting to skin you alive with whatever sharp object they could get their hands on.

Its like how the news makes the US seem like the wild west when it is hardly that. I never once been shot at or had to shoot someone else in self defense. Did have to go sit in with the SWAT guys during a hostage situation due to them using a location as the staging area, but that was just by chance and normally would have had nothing to do with myself otherwise.

For the whole sexualization of minors things whats hilarious is Ive seen more articles come out lately as in this year 2017, from the US about teachers having "inappropriate relations" with their students. Then again its not as if Im actively looking for the articles as it just pops up in the news feeds since the media doesnt have anything else better to report on outside of Trump, Russia or Shootings.

Am sure the only reason the govt is pretending to give a shit about any of this stuff is due to the Olympics coming up and they will be under an even larger microscope than the internet boom provided. Which is a good thing as the country does have various issues which need to be dealt with. Only problem is those in charge are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed and make the most odd type of decisions when attempting to patch work fix something in this country. If it wasnt for that they would have been perfectly happy sitting around doing absolutely nothing besides roll around on our tax money. (most likely naked and covered in caviar)

It's not like I'm scrounging around the internet looking for something to help me make a point. These are all articles (except one) I've read in the past that came to mind when posters said certain things.

I did find that older NY times one about the photo crackdown just now, but I wanted a real life example of what I was discussing.

It's just a difference of opinion. I think Japan has a problem, and I believe that games/anime/manga depicting sexualized images of minors are part of that problem. I've been approached by underage girls in several cities in Japan. Some of them offer what seems to be innocent chats in cafes (although many of these cafes are linked to child prostitution), and one of them straight up asked if I wanted oral sex. I see these high school girl cafes every once in a while when I'm around the city, and I can't help but think of this. I can't help but think of programs in Tokyo that are working hard now to get underage girls out of prostitution and human trafficking. I can't help but think of how minors working as idols have gravure photoshoots, and older guys buy them up. I do believe these things are linked. I do believe that there is a societal issue. Of course this issue exists and has different causes and effects in other countries, but the discussion here and now is focused on whether games showing this sort of imagery are acceptable.

 

[BigEmil]

You haven't seen VR Kanojo that is worser

 

[TheMrPliskin]

This isn't exactly a new thing, and I'm surprised that a Gust game is the target of choice.

At least they put effort into well-fleshed-out female protagonists.

If they've done good work with female characters in the past that doesn't mean that they can do stuff like this without getting called out for it.

 

[Beartruck]

You're a little LTTP here. Half the Atelier games have underaged protagonists with swimsuit DLC.

Real talk though, it might just be me, but I swear that the otaku pandering in their games has steadily gotten worse and worse since KT bought them. Which really doesn't surprise me, as KT are the DOA guys.

 

[Tyraniboah]

Blue Reflection is coming to the West in September. Pretty much all games published by Koei Tecmo, who owns Gust, get released in the US and Europe. I'm not sure if they'll release all the DLC here, but I expect they will.

Well shit. I normally like to see all content make it over for any game, but in a case like this I think it's better to stay in Japan.

 

[Impeccable]

You're a little LTTP here. Half the Atelier games have underaged protagonists with swimsuit DLC.

Loved the games hated that and the bath stuff. Haven't played the last few. Sucks.

 

[EvilKatarn]

At least Persona 5's bikini dlc was free.

 

[Syrus]

If thia game is marketed for people older then 18 then it is creepy as heck eapecially woth the poses

 

[Aizo]

Would the people defending this buy that costume DLC? I'm a bit confused why this is worth defending. I didn't expect that I'd have to prove that it's creepy when I made this thread. I never said the game shouldn't be allowed to be sold. I never said that if you like the game you're a pedophile. Are people defending it because they like the game and feel that I'm attacking them?

I merely wanted to bring to attention a business practice that I feel has no positive impact on society. Am I wrong? People just feel like "Whatever, let people like whatever they like"? I get that many of you don't see the problem, because these are fictional girls, but where is the line?

 

[Joey Ravn]

I'm comparing because violent/crime games never seem to be issue on NeoGAF, in fact, I'm pretty sure many will readily defend them from getting banned or censored. So how is that different from this one?

That's the thing: you shouldn't be using one issue to justify or diminish the other, because they are two completely independent issues with no bearing on each other at all. Either focus on the issue at hand or create another thread to discuss the issue of violence in video games, but don't try to muddle the discussion by mixing the two.

 

[kunonabi]

Well shit. I normally like to see all content make it over for any game, but in a case like this I think it's better to stay in Japan.

Well they got scared off of the Casca dlc so they will probably bow to the whims of the white knights of twitter here too.

 

[demosthenes]

It's Japan, where having a date with underage girl for money was prohibited only in 2016/17.

Different world, different mentality.

PS. Hope you all can direct your anger to Middle East countries where it's super common to "give away" your 12 yo daughter to be a wife of mature man without even a slightest consent from a girl.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/opinion/americas-child-marriage-problem.html

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsn...-marriage-in-the-u-s-surprisingly-widespread/

 

[Strings]

Well they got scared off of the Casca dlc so they will probably bow to the whims of the white knights of twitter here too.

You say that like the Casca dlc wasn't an abomination >.<

 

[afreaknamedpete]

Loved the games hated that and the bath stuff. Haven't played the last few. Sucks.

You might want to try the Dusk series. The most polished gameplay and probably the least fanservice in any of the NA released Atelier games, I think only the last one of the trilogy even has swimsuits and it's a whole lot less gratuitous than anything Arland did.

 

[Mephala]

I dislike this stuff and generally avoid it. This is pretty disgusting regardless. The characters are clearly minor and they have DLC for these characters in sexy bikinis but also in nothing but bath towels? And I thought DOA was bad.

And I say this as someone who can understand liking ecchi and such but this is really over the creepy side for me.

 

[Pantz]

They're not real, not even realistic style graphics.
GTA is OK but not this? Murder, good? Swimsuits, bad?

Edit: posted before seeing the shower scene. Nevermind me.

 

[Dunkley]

I honestly don't know what's more disgusting: Sexualization of underage girls or people who try to defend this shit by either trying to distract from the subject or try to normalize it by saying "others do it too"

This is not up for debate, it straight up IS absolutely disgusting stuff and you need to get help if you really think this stuff is hot.

 

[Impeccable]

You might want to try the Dusk series. The most polished gameplay and probably the least fanservice in any of the NA released Atelier games, I think only the last one of the trilogy even has swimsuits and it's a whole lot less gratuitous than anything Arland did.

Okay, I will look into it. Lots of good jRPGs now so I have had more choices than PS3.

 

[purseowner]

If they've done good work with female characters in the past that doesn't mean that they can do stuff like this without getting called out for it.

Oh, don't get me wrong - I entirely agree.

I love Gust's games but always raise an eyebrow at their DLC and cloth posters.

There are simply worse targets out there.

 

[Makki]

I cant related to the criticisim of content with fan service related to fictitional models with blob faces. The biography for these things could say Age:20whatever out of context, and it would make no difference. The characters are not human looking. The setting is the problem I guess if the game explicitly places you in an under age situation.

 

[Aizo]

They're not real, not even realistic style graphics.
GTA is OK but not this? Murder, good? Swimsuits, bad?

They're not even related. I said nothing about GTA. If you'd like to have that discussion, you can make another thread, and I'll be sure to comment in it.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Well they got scared off of the Casca dlc so they will probably bow to the whims of the white knights of twitter here too.

Lol, that dlc is the hill you want to die on?

Oh, don't get me wrong - I entirely agree.

I love Gust's games but always raise an eyebrow at their DLC and cloth posters.

There are simply worse targets out there.

There's definitely far worse stuff out there but it's also not like the OP is saying this is the only game that has this sort of content and it's more that this was something that cropped up on the PSN store for them and stood out.

 

[afreaknamedpete]

Eh, outside of the reoccuring one-off swimsuit gag in each game (which is thankfully brief and typically pretty self-aware/funny), I'm not exactly sure what you mean (at least in relation to Atelier)? Blue Reflection is a little different, in that you can perform a bath action which gives you these random skeevy camera angles and no stat benefit.

Well that's exactly what I mean. I want to recommend, say Atelier Meruru, but then I think what are people gonna think when they get to the hot springs scene? Even for me, I got really into Atelier after getting Rorona on a whim while in college. I played it in the common room of my dorm and had alot of people who watched me play, and did the same for Totori. Then I stumble into a literal swimsuit contest where I had to mash buttons to cheer for who had the best swimsuit and then I'm getting some strange looks from my dormmates.

Ask yourself if you would be willing to share something like Zelda or Mario with your future or present kids, or friends with families. Then ask if you would be able to do the same for Atelier? That's kinda what frustrates me; there's just this really unnecessary sexualization that prevents these games from reaching a wider audience, and it's not even something Atelier even needs to be good.

 

[mao2]

... That may be because this game sexualises underage girls?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a-b54P7zBU

I meant in real life. As in, this game is the cause of crimes involving underage girls OP posted.

That's the thing: you shouldn't be using one issue to justify or diminish the other, because they are two completely independent issues with no bearing on each other at all. Either focus on the issue at hand or create another thread to discuss the issue of violence in video games, but don't try to muddle the discussion by mixing the two.

Yeah, you're right, sorry. I'll stop here now.

 

[Atolm]

You guys are like really, really, reaaaaally late to the party. Idea Factory or Compile Heart games are a thing since years ago. I'd even argue this Blue Reflection is even tame in comparison to some stuff that has find its way to the West. Like, check Monster Monpiece or Criminal Girls.

 

[Quonny]

Same face, boring swimsuits.

I mean, if they're gonna attract buyers at least put some effort in.

 

[Skronk]

They're not real, not even realistic style graphics.
GTA is OK but not this? Murder, good? Swimsuits, bad?

Even GTA doesn't fuck with kids

 

[PSFan]

I honestly don't know what's more disgusting: Sexualization of underage girls or people who try to defend this shit by either trying to distract from the subject or try to normalize it by saying "others do it too"

This is not up for debate, it straight up IS absolutely disgusting stuff and you need to get help if you really think this stuff is hot.

Wouldn't they only be underage in the US though? Isn't the age of consent in most of the world 16 with the US being the outlier?

 

[Izuna]

If thia game is marketed for people older then 18 then it is creepy as heck eapecially woth the poses

Uhhh

Not sure why you think it's less creepy if it wasn't...

 

[Kittehkraken]

As a member of civilized society, I am disgusted by this lewd bikini DLC coming out of Japan. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go fuck some hookers in GTA before going on my 5 star killing spree. It amps me up.

 

[gdt]

Whaaaaaat is going on with Amirox?

 

[Parakeetman]

Would the people defending this buy that costume DLC? I'm a bit confused why this is worth defending. I didn't expect that I'd have to prove that it's creepy when I made this thread. I never said the game shouldn't be allowed to be sold. I never said that if you like the game you're a pedophile. Are people defending it because they like the game and feel that I'm attacking them?

I merely wanted to bring to attention a business practice that I feel has no positive impact on society. Am I wrong? People just feel like "Whatever, let people like whatever they like"? I get that many of you don't see the problem, because these are fictional girls, but where is the line?

Its not worth defending its more poking holes in your discussion due to the poor example used in your original post.

Honestly costume DLC unless its stupid / absurd stuff I usually dont bother purchasing as its a waste of money for the most part.

As stated if you had done a bit more thought into your original topic I honestly would have ignored your thread period. Such as using the bath towel example as that by far is worse than your swimsuit example.

You need to make up your mind first off for what do you want to discuss. Getting shocked by game DLC like the bath towel creepshow or discuss actual real social issues with Japan itself which you should make a separate topic in Offtopic as am sure you will get a good discussion there with the various folks in the Offtopic section that also have or are living in Japan and/or familiar with social / political issues within the country.

Reason for saying this is by tossing in your article links that have nothing to do with the game and or dlc muddle up the actual discussion by shotgunning the topic into multiple directions. Granted the connection that you are trying to make does exist.

Whaaaaaat is going on with Amirox?

Dude got arrested apparently since Evilore made a statement on in this thread, I guess that pretty much finalizes the intial report being legit. Otherwise he would have made a statement against it. As GAF is very anti-doxxing / internet detective with good reason.

 

[Strings]

Wouldn't they only be underage in the US though? Isn't the age of consent in most of the world 16 with the US being the outlier?

Comment reminded me of this near perfect piece of satire (fair warning, video is somewhat nsfw).

But is it a good rpg though?

It's okay. Like, low-tier Gust, 5-6/10. Way too easy throughout, with a somewhat bland cast.

The combat system itself is pretty nice, and the music is great. Boss designs are awesome.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Wouldn't they only be underage in the US though? Isn't the age of consent in most of the world 16 with the US being the outlier?

Age of consent has nothing to do with this. Photos of a minor are still child pornography, even in countries where the age of consent is lower than the age of the person in the photos.

 

[Rad Shadow]

But is it a good rpg though?

 

[Cornbread78]

At least Persona 5's bikini dlc was free.

Wait, are you implying Persona 5 has swimsuit DLC as well? I mean, THE Persona 5?

Wouldn't they only be underage in the US though? Isn't the age of consent in most of the world 16 with the US being the outlier?

It varies slightly per state actually...

 

[PSFan]

Age of consent has nothing to do with this. Photos of a minor are still child pornography, even in countries where the age of consent is lower than the age of the person in the photos.

They aren't photos though and if they are age of consent or over aren't they not minors then? I know in Europe, they graduate high school at 16 and are legally able to drink beer and wine. Doesn't sound like a minor to me.

 

[Aizo]

Its not worth defending its more poking holes in your discussion due to the poor example used in your original post.

This seems petty to me.

Honestly costume DLC unless its stupid / absurd stuff I usually dont bother purchasing as its a waste of money for the most part.

As stated if you had done a bit more thought into your original topic I honestly would have ignored your thread period. Such as using the bath towel example as that by far is worse than your swimsuit example.

You need to make up your mind first off for what do you want to discuss. Getting shocked by game DLC like the bath towel creepshow or discuss actual real social issues with Japan itself which you should make a separate topic in Offtopic as am sure you will get a good discussion there with the various folks in the Offtopic section that also have or are living in Japan and/or familiar with social / political issues within the country.

Reason for saying this is by tossing in your article links that have nothing to do with the game and or dlc muddle up the actual discussion by shotgunning the topic into multiple directions. Granted the connection that you are trying to make does exist.

I posted the thread after seeing the ad on PSN. It creeped me out. I edited the OP when other members shifted to the discussion to be more about societal issues in Japan. My original question was as basic as "Can we agree that this is creepy?" If I included something in the OP that set people off on another argument, then I made a mistake.

Other people brought up age of consent and how only foreigners think it's a problem/Japan doesn't view it as an issue. I didn't shotgun it. It was shotgunned for me.

Also, it's just a thread on gaming side. I didn't realize that GAF threads needed to be defended like a thesis. Instead of poking holes in my organization, if you see the point I'm attempting to make and agree in some fashion, why not assist where you believe I fail instead of trashing my OP?

 

[psychowave]

The fact that people are defending this even on NeoGAF makes me wanna drown myself in alcohol. Jesus Christ, how depressing.

 

[Somnid]

Virtual people. Definitely not my cup of tea and yeah it's pretty creepy but there's not exactly a victim here. If we're going with the "it turns people into pedos" well then perhaps violent games "turn people into murderers" and extrapolate that from US society. On a game maker level I perfectly fine saying Gust is gross and misogynistic and I hope they get some heat over it, but I won't thoughtcrime anyone who feels they want this.

 

[Parakeetman]

Age of consent has nothing to do with this. Photos of a minor are still child pornography, even in countries where the age of consent is lower than the age of the person in the photos.

Yeah pretty much the whole "age of concent" argument does not really fit into the topic. As you stated the only thing which does is the legality of age (including physical appearance, so no 1000 year old demon excuse) + displayed content of said character is what effects localization choices.

Its generally Legal > Moral > Original Design in terms of importance during localization for other regions. Original Design usually will take a far back seat unless the required changes for said localization cause too much extra cost or work to be done.

 

[texhnolyze]

But is it a good rpg though?

Apparently not. Decent, perhaps, but not good. I was looking forward to this, sadly.

 

[Korigama]

Wouldn't they only be underage in the US though? Isn't the age of consent in most of the world 16 with the US being the outlier?

It varies slightly per state actually...

And specifically, it is 16 in most states (age of majority still being 18, much like age of majority in Japan being something separate and set at 20). Of course, what's legal between individuals involved based on age gap is another matter.

 

[Ferr986]

They aren't photos though and if they are age of consent or over aren't they not minors then? I know in Europe, they graduate high school at 16 and are legally able to drink beer and wine. Doesn't sound like a minor to me.

Depending where you are. Spain and France is 18 for buying and drinking alcohol, for example.

Drinking and consent are things that are different depending in what country you are.

Age of consent in Spain is 16 yet 18 is considered adult (and being able to drink, or drive, etc). Age of consent doesn't mean you're adult.

EDIT: welp, seeing Joey Ravn post, I was sure they raised age of consent here from 13 to 16 but maybe not? yikes lol

 

[Joey Ravn]

They aren't photos though and if they are age of consent or over aren't they not minors then? I know in Europe, they graduate high school at 16 and are legally able to drink beer and wine. Doesn't sound like a minor to me.

I feel this shouldn't be needed to be explained, because you're using "legally drinking beer" as a measurement of adulthood, which is baffling. But anyway...

You are confusing "age of consent" (the ability to engage in sexual relations without legal repercussions) and "age of majority", which is the age at which you legally become an adult.

Let's take my country, Spain, for example. Age of consent here is 16 years old, while age of majority is 18. You can't smoke, drink, drive or vote until you are 18. Now, the age of consent being 13 doesn't mean that a 34-year-old can have sex with a 16-year-old kid. That's not how it works. There is a series of requirements, including closeness in age between the two people, so that a relationship is protected under the age of consent.

Anyone below the age of 18 is considered a minor, period. It doesn't matter that 13 is the age of consent: if you have sexual photographs of a minor, you are in possession of child pornography. That's how it is in the vast majority of countries.

Oh, and depiction of underage people for sexual purposes still falls under "child pornography" in most countries. So the excuse of "they aren't real" doesn't fly at all.

 

[Parakeetman]

This seems petty to me.

I posted the thread after seeing the ad on PSN. It creeped me out. I edited the OP when other members shifted to the discussion to be more about societal issues in Japan. My original question was as basic as "Can we agree that this is creepy?" If I included something in the OP that set people off on another argument, then I made a mistake.

Other people brought up age of consent and how only foreigners think it's a problem/Japan doesn't view it as an issue. I didn't shotgun it. It was shotgunned for me.

Also, it's just a thread on gaming side. I didn't realize that GAF threads needed to be defended like a thesis. Instead of poking holes in my organization, if you see the point I'm attempting to make and agree in some fashion, why not assist where you believe I fail instead of trashing my OP?

Im not here to assist you honestly as stated before as this is a discussion. I have already shown you what is wrong with yours and the example you gave on top of giving the suggestion that you should have used the towel example instead as it presents a far stronger case for the point you are trying to make. There is nothing to further assist you with.