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[bone_and_sinew]

Yeah this is one of my gripes with KZ2 and what I played of KZ3 before bailing. They have all this rich backstory but the (at least console, don't know about portable) games don't use it much.

 

[Pagusas]

so where does this huge walled off 2 sided city come into play from all that? Where is it, why does it exist?

 

[Portugeezer]

Thanks, hoping GT do a timeline or something for this launch game.

 

[Zen]

This is on Vekta 30 years after Killzone 3 because Sev and Rico accidentally nuked the entire planet of Helghan thanks to a Helghast weapons manufacturer that was going to use his ships to genocide Earth/UCA.

It's implicated that ISA Vekta is dissolved and the UCA forces the Vektans to take on the surviving Helghast, and enforces a peace between both sides.

 

[Pagusas]

This is on Vekta 30 years after Killzone 3 because Sev and Rico accidentally nuked the entire planet of Helghan thanks to a Helghast weapons manufacturer that was going to use his ships to genocide Earth/UCA.

It's implicated that ISA Vekta is dissolved and the UCA forces the Vektans to take on the surviving Helghast, and enforces a peace between both sides.

Ah, so I guess the UCA is the one everyone hates? But the Helghan want to take revenge on the ISA directly, thus attacking?

 

[Zen]

Yeah, the UCA is basically the Federation, and the guys you play as (ISA - Vekta of the Alpha Centauri system) are the equivalent of a local system defense force. It looks like the Helghast you'll be fighting in ShadowFall are terrorist groups determined to rip apart the Vektan society, they're not officially a part of the Helghast government on Vekta, but I'm sure we'll see how they are supported, directly or otherwise. Basically East and West Germany, exceptionally high tensions, and a terrorist group trying to provoke all out war between the two sides.

Correct. UCN basically used the ISA to fight off the Helghan in space over a dispute. UCN wanted a piece of the pie the colonies had by controlling the entire sector. Since they owned the territory, the only fault I see with Helghan is what sounds like exorbitant prices to control trade.

The occupation of Vekta by the ISA is what finally drove everyone back to the Helghan home world and bred Visari.

It was their world and was taken by force based on a lack of communication, greed, and some idiocy. I'm surprised they thought they could win with their meager militia and space force.

The platinum age and the first extra-solar war are pretty much examples of the Helghan Corporation and the Elites of the Helghan/Vekta societies fucking everyone else over for money, and it blew up in their faces.

The UCN was constantly on the back foot when dealing with this system, aside from the implied murder and sabotage at the start, you can't blame the Helghast Government for acting how it did except:

They had no reason to start charging a tariff on space trade for any non Hlghan/Vekta ships and people and goods and also the military buildup. And when it came time to negotiate over these details, it's clearly stated that the elites of Vekta and the Helghan Coporation (along with other companies in the sector) push the Government to not compromise on anything.

What was the UCN to do? Allow the Helghast Corporation to be able to shut off the food supply to earth on a whim? The UCN wasn't planning an invasion, they wanted to protect the trade transport routes between all the colonies and Earth.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Defend their home? The one the took by force and oppressed to get? Re-read that bit, Vekta isn't for the ISA and it never was. The origins of the ISA are slightly pathetic, actually. There was little need for them.

No, I am very well aware of this. but ISA =/= UCN. The UCN seized Vekta by force from the Helghast, correct. But during the 142 years between then and when the Helghasts invaded in KZ1, several non-Helghasts made Vekta their home whether they agreed with how it got in the hands of the UCN or not. The ISA are an army separate from the UCN tasks solely with defending those people. So yes, I stand by my point.

The Helghasts invade Vekta in Killzone 1 to reclaim it from the UCN, only instead of fighting the UCN they fight the civilians militia who had nothing to do with taking it from them in the first place. And then they retaliate because they feel threatened.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

The problem was the Helghan corporation trying to massively expand power, and they used manipulation and murder to get it from day 1 (Sabotaging the shuttle to bankrupt the government and get the contract for the lucrative system, killing thousands of people on the first expedition). These were not nice people.

So wait, you're suggesting that during "The Omen" in 2116 the 6 colony ships that were lost in a solar flair were actually sabotaged by Helghan Corporation, and then they did a really good cover up? Damn. That changes everything. And it's not like the Helghans don't have a history of cover ups, albeit future cover ups.

 

[Zen]

The solar flair only interrupted communications and tracking it didn't damage the ships.

The 6 ships initially sent to colonize the system disappear suspiciously, and the only transmission that gets back reports complete systems failures. Forcing the UCN to open up the the rights to a contract... and the Helghan corporation just so happens to have an entire fleet of colonization ships almost completed just in time to bid on the contract... admit accusations of massive corruption and bribery.

Now it's true that they weren't the only company bidding, but they were the only company with an almost completed fleet that was just sitting around.

I'd say it's fairly suspect.

No, I am very well aware of this. but ISA =/= UCN. The UCN seized Vekta by force from the Helghast, correct. But during the 142 years between then and when the Helghasts invaded in KZ1, several non-Helghasts made Vekta their home whether they agreed with how it got in the hands of the UCN or not. The ISA are an army separate from the UCN tasks solely with defending those people. So yes, I stand by my point.

The Helghasts invade Vekta in Killzone 1 to reclaim it from the UCN, only instead of fighting the UCN they fight the civilians militia who had nothing to do with taking it from them in the first place. And then they retaliate because they feel threatened.

Lets not forget Visari's plan here:

Utilize deep-cover agent ISA General Stuart Adams to neutralize the orbital defense platforms.
Utilize deep-cover agent ISA General Dwight Stratson to gain access to intelligence and lure the ISA troops out of the cities.
Mount an invasion of Vekta whilst the orbital defense platforms are down, under the command of General Joseph Lente.
Reactivate the defense platforms in time to defend Vekta against the inevitable support fleet sent by the UCA.
Declare the system to be under Helghast control and sue for peace with the UCN whilst the UCA is still reeling from the loss of its fleet.
Use the resources of Helghan and Vekta, as well as technology captured from the wrecked UCA Navy fleet, to build a Helghast fleet capable of defending the system from the UCA Navy.
Begin charging trade tariffs for passage through Helghast space to Earth again.
Blockade the Earth and strangle the UCN into submission.
Capture the UCN Navy shipyards and orbital defenses. Leave Earth's population to starve to death. Build an enormous fleet and establish Helghast hegemony over all colonies.

 

[TimeEffect]

A Radec-focused game would be so excellent. He's my favourite character in the series by far. But on second thought, I'd prefer a game about Hakha and how he came to defect from the Helghast leadership.

Definitely, I always envision a game where you play a young Radec who becomes hardened and ruthless due to events in his upbringing, and then, at the very end, he gets taken in under Visari's wing.

Basically, more Radec

 

[daveo42]

Yeah, the UCA is basically the Federation, and the guys you play as (ISA - Vekta of the Alpha Centauri system) are the equivalent of a local system defense force. It looks like the Helghast you'll be fighting in ShadowFall are terrorist groups determined to rip apart the Vektan society, they're probably not officially a part of the Helghast government on Vekta, but I'm sure we'll see how they are supported, directly or otherwise). Basically East and West Germany.



The platinum age and the first extra-solar war are pretty much examples of the Helghan Corporation and the Elites of the Helghan/Vekta societies fucking everyone else over for money, and it blew up in their faces.

The UCN was constantly on the back foot when dealing with this system, aside from the implied murder and sabotage at the start, you can't blame the Helghast Government for acting how it did except:

They had no reason to start charging a tariff on space trade for any non Hlghan/Vekta ships and people and goods and also the military buildup. And when it came time to negotiate over these details, it's clearly stated that the elites of Vekta and the Helghan Coporation (along with other companies in the sector) push the Government to not compromise on anything.

What was the UCN to do? Allow the Helghast Corporation to be able to shut off the food supply to earth on a whim? The UCN wasn't planning an invasion, they wanted to protect the trade transport routes between all the colonies and Earth.

Of course they had a reason to, they owned the system after the UCN took their offer to buy it outright. Once they owned the system, they were free to do whatever they wanted with it. Only after did the UCN realize how big of a mistake it was to actually sell in the first place and wanted it back, using the UCA and ISA to help force a decision.

I agree that Helghan/Vekta aren't scott-free in this either, since both planets were run by corporations. Greed was a huge factor in turning away any offers for compromise and the run-up of prices in the sector. Still, not sure what the UCN thought would happen once a sector built on corporate foundation was given complete control.

 

[TimeEffect]

See your fans disagreeing and siding with the ISA and HGH, GG?

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS!!

 

[A.R.K]

Just amazing...wish they put even half of the effort they put in creating this, for the actual KZ games. In fact things have gotten worse story wise and its execution, with each next KZ iteration.

Such a waste

 

[velociraptor]

Just read the whole thing. Took a while, but damn.

WHAT AN AMAZING BACKSTORY.

Killzone 2 felt like a clusterfuck in terms of story. 'WE'RE THE ISA. AND WE'RE GOING TO HELGHAST TO CAPTURE VISARI.' And that was it. As a player, I didn't know what the hell was gong on. The worst part of the game was that the minimal story that was present in the game was actually conveyed during the loading screens. Heh.

I think Killzone has the potential to be a better franchise, yet it has been wasted.

I truly hope Shadowfall has a deep storyline.

Perhaps Killzone should expand into an RPG like shooter similar to Deus Ex? Like anyone else, I hope Killzone is primarily an FPS. However, I feel there is so much GG can do to improve the franchise, and differentiate from the usual Call Of Duty and Battlefield games.

 

[noah111]

so where does this huge walled off 2 sided city come into play from all that? Where is it, why does it exist?

Read the timeline!

Alpha Centauri is the start system that has two planets, which the Helghan Corporation (from Earth ofc) named Vekta and Helghan. The "helghast" people (though that term hadn't been coined yet, as they weren't a race or anything yet) were on both planets, Vekta and Helghan.

Due to the war, ISA/UCN populations eventually took foot in Vekta and slowly seeded Helghan people off by cracking down on them due to 'terrorist acts', and eventually most Helghan people who had lived on Vekta (for many generations), fled this oppression by going to the planet Helghan.

SO, by now Helghast people are on Helghan and some on Vekta, a bit in the shadows/slums/etc, and ISA/UCN are on Vekta (the planet which Helghast first populated).

With the end of KZ3, Helghan is basically done for, so the Helghast are returning to Vekta. We don't know exactly what happened over the 30 years, but my bet is civilian survivors of the radiation blast the ISA hit the entire planet of Helghan with, fled back to Vekta.

That's where SF begins, with Helghast now living on Vekta (their old home, technically) but heavily segregated from the ISA/UCN population. Now they want vengeance for their world being destroyed.

Correct. UCN basically used the ISA to fight off the Helghan in space over a dispute. UCN wanted a piece of the pie the colonies had by controlling the entire sector. Since they owned the territory, the only fault I see with Helghan is what sounds like exorbitant prices to control trade.

The occupation of Vekta by the ISA is what finally drove everyone back to the Helghan home world and bred Visari.

It was their world and was taken by force based on a lack of communication, greed, and some idiocy. I'm surprised they thought they could win with their meager militia and space force.

Agreed.

 

[Noks415]

So wait, you're suggesting that during "The Omen" in 2116 the 6 colony ships that were lost in a solar flair were actually sabotaged by Helghan Corporation, and then they did a really good cover up? Damn. That changes everything. And it's not like the Helghans don't have a history of cover ups, albeit future cover ups.

I find that part of Helgast history to be the most interesting.
There's no proof of sabotage being the cause for the tragic loss of the colony ships, but lets say it was sabotage , wouldn't that mean the original Helghast corporate board of directors had to give some sort of consent?
Its fun to think that the evil corporate culture of Helghast was established hundreds of years ago and it just permeated into society and created the circumstances that would lead to people like Visari taking power.(isn't it rumored that visari's family is descended from the original corporate board?)

I dont recall if they ever specified what happened to the lost colony ships. Only that they lost contact. It would be cool if those ships were never destroyed and managed to survive in another far away star system. They could incorporate the discovery of the the lost colonists into future killzone titles, kinda like starcraft.

 

[Kyoufu]

Thanks Sentry. Very interesting lore/story.

I would love a first person shooter with heavy dialogue and story. We all love story, don't we?

KZ2 was great but the dudebro characters you control were painful. Not taking advantage of the lore is a missed opportunity. The opportunity to set your FPS apart from most others. The opportunity to create a franchise people look forward to rather than the usual "oh look, another Killzone" reaction every time.

 

[noah111]

No, I am very well aware of this. but ISA =/= UCN. The UCN seized Vekta by force from the Helghast, correct. But during the 142 years between then and when the Helghasts invaded in KZ1, several non-Helghasts made Vekta their home whether they agreed with how it got in the hands of the UCN or not. The ISA are an army separate from the UCN tasks solely with defending those people. So yes, I stand by my point.

The Helghasts invade Vekta in Killzone 1 to reclaim it from the UCN, only instead of fighting the UCN they fight the civilians militia who had nothing to do with taking it from them in the first place. And then they retaliate because they feel threatened.

By 2200 the UCN population on the just-invaded Vekta was the minority, it was primarily the ISA who were situated there. Sure, the UCN helped make it all happen, but the ISA played a huge part as well (like, imo, destroying the orbital structure and having the UCA and Helghast blame one another for who did it, when it was the ISA all along - just my theory).

As far as invading Vekta, I agree but at the same time they just got out of a great depression, and they're society is basically dead. Visari rejuvenated it all. They invaded Vekta in the same manner as it was once, in a way.

Are you saying the ISA is 'civilians militia' (may be misunderstanding you), because they're certainly more than that.

Either way I think the Helghans are fairly justified in almost everything they did, right up until Visari. That's when things got militant, as symbolized by him changing the three pillars of the Helghan symbol from 'peace, justice, and freedom' to 'duty, obedience, and loyalty' 210 years later.

 

[Zen]

I find that part of Helgast history to be the most interesting.
There's no proof of sabotage being the cause for the tragic loss of the colony ships, but lets say it was sabotage , wouldn't that mean the original Helghast corporate board of directors had to give some sort of consent?
Its fun to think that the evil corporate culture of Helghast was established hundreds of years ago and it just permeated into society and created the circumstances that would lead to people like Visari taking power.(isn't it rumored that visari's family is descended from the original corporate board?)

I dont recall if they ever specified what happened to the lost colony ships. Only that they lost contact. It would be cool if those ships were never destroyed and managed to survive in another far away star system. They could incorporate the discovery of the the lost colonists into future killzone titles, kinda like starcraft.

The only communication they got from the ships was from one of them reporting a complete systems failure.

All six ships would have had to have failed almost simultaneously for no contact to be possible post the Solar flair.

After the Helghast Corporation was shut down 'Many of them escaped persecution". From the control they had over the Government pre the first war to after, I think it's clear who ended up calling the shots in the Helghast society after that.

 

[dragonelite]

please let me as a helghan soldier or terrorist.
Dont like those ISA scum.

 

[moolhy]

Just read the whole thing. Took a while, but damn.

WHAT AN AMAZING BACKSTORY.

Killzone 2 felt like a clusterfuck in terms of story. 'WE'RE THE ISA. AND WE'RE GOING TO HELGHAST TO CAPTURE VISARI.' And that was it. As a player, I didn't know what the hell was gong on. The worst part of the game was that the minimal story that was present in the game was actually conveyed during the loading screens. Heh.

I think Killzone has the potential to be a better franchise, yet it has been wasted.

I truly hope Shadowfall has a deep storyline.

Perhaps Killzone should expand into an RPG like shooter similar to Deus Ex? Like anyone else, I hope Killzone is primarily an FPS. However, I feel there is so much GG can do to improve the franchise, and differentiate from the usual Call Of Duty and Battlefield games.

Well, seeing how well the top down view works in Killzone Liberation, I would welcome a full blown BAD ASS Real-Time Strategy with a rich story and the KZ engine.

Seriously... do it GG.

EDIT:

They should have done this instead of another FPS to kickstart the PS4. An RTS would look phenomenal on next gen consoles and it would certainly be a breath of fresh air in the roster of FPS, TPS and Racers that usually populate a console's launch lineup.

 

[Flatline]

Guerrilla needs to hire some good writers, I'm sick of their brainless dudebro story and characters. It's such a waste for a franchise with such an amazing backstory.


If the next game is the same I will not buy it. One of the reasons I prefer Sony consoles is because of the lack of dudebro crap and Guerrilla is the only exclusive dev in the system that pulls this shit. I literally stopped playing K2 because of that Rico retard.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Fantastic backstory, I love reading stuff like this, it's a shame that none of this is ever presented in the games in any fashion and the story telling regarding the conflict covered in those games is absolute crap.

 

[Zen]

please let me as a helghan soldier or terrorist.
Dont like those ISA scum.

You're a bad person and you should feel bad. Even by Helghast society standards, don't be surprised if the majority in SF don't want war, just like prior when Vekta was taken by the UCN. But if slaughtering civilians is your thing!

 

[noah111]

I find that part of Helgast history to be the most interesting.
There's no proof of sabotage being the cause for the tragic loss of the colony ships, but lets say it was sabotage , wouldn't that mean the original Helghast corporate board of directors had to give some sort of consent?
Its fun to think that the evil corporate culture of Helghast was established hundreds of years ago and it just permeated into society and created the circumstances that would lead to people like Visari taking power.(isn't it rumored that visari's family is descended from the original corporate board?)

I dont recall if they ever specified what happened to the lost colony ships. Only that they lost contact. It would be cool if those ships were never destroyed and managed to survive in another far away star system. They could incorporate the discovery of the the lost colonists into future killzone titles, kinda like starcraft.

But even if that were the case (sabotage), you can't suddenly kick the Helghan Corporation populations out of Alpha Centauri. They have established a successful footing, profitable, economically stable, etc. By that point, it had already been nearly 50 years since the Omen, right?

The biggest mistake was by the UCN when the allowed the Helghan Corporation to purchase Alpha Centauri outright, giving them full control over everything in the system. That was the first step toward invasion by force, as they enabled HGC to essentially control the local star system by forcing fees and rough inspections of anyone traveling to further systems (which they made fortunes off of, and thus the broke-UCN got jealous of).

 

[Konosuke]

I hope they take advantage of Shadow Fall and do a cutscene of the backstory.

 

[dummydecoy]

Man, I played the triology without knowledge of that backstory. It would have been nice to have gotten even 1% of that through the game, but it's all just shoot boom shoot. It's too ambitious for the game.

GG should have more non-shooting levels in the next game. Let the player explore the world, interact with NPCs, maybe a visit to the National Vekta Library where one can read on that backstory, or maybe a PDA to read documents on ala DOOM 3.

 

[Flatline]

Man, I played the triology without knowledge of that backstory. It would have been nice to have gotten even 1% of that through the game, but it's all just shoot boom shoot. It's too ambitious for the game.

GG should have more non-shooting levels in the next game. Let the player explore the world, interact with NPCs, maybe a PDA to read documents on ala DOOM 3.

People have been bitching about the franchise's story since Killzone 2. It seems Guerrilla is either incompetent or doesn't give a fuck about what fans want.

Somehow they were all ears when COD fans asked them to ruin multiplayer (which they happily did).

 

[Gadirok]

GG should have considered putting more of this into the game. I love lore and little bits here and there but to research it yourself to the point where the backstory is just a whole essay seems like poor demonstration of writing for the games.


Anyways, I hope the killzone universe ventures out of the FPS with maybe a vehicular space combat or something. Seems really ambitious and a good way to introduce something new into gaming and would give the series some deserved cred.

We have two Killzone games coming this year alone. Mercenary and Shadow Fall.

Seems kinda saturated to have both of them in the same year (would have been better if mercenary had come out earlier like an ideal time would have been right now or late 2012) but will the bigger question is, will these 2 games connect or share some kind of bonuses in any way if you manage to buy both of them?

I have mixed feelings on buying either or them or one of them now. I own the trilogy but never finished it, but why should I buy killzone mercenary if I could play shadow fall via remote play on my vita?

 

[staticneuron]

Defend their home? The one the took by force and oppressed to get? Re-read that bit, Vekta isn't for the ISA and it never was. The origins of the ISA are slightly pathetic, actually. There was little need for them.

Thanks for posting that history. But the ISA is staffed by colonists despite being trained by UCN. So technically they are protecting there home because despite following orders from UCN. They normally are recruited from the colonies that they are protecting.

Hence, The Main characters of Killzone were born on Vekta.

With the end of KZ3, Helghan is basically done for, so the Helghast are returning to Vekta. We don't know exactly what happened over the 30 years, but my bet is civilian survivors of the radiation blast the ISA hit the entire planet of Helghan with, fled back to Vekta.

That's where SF begins, with Helghast now living on Vekta (their old home, technically) but heavily segregated from the ISA/UCN population. Now they want vengeance for their world being destroyed.

The ISA didn't aim anything at the planet. The ISA aimed at the cruiser Jorhan was in. When the cruiser crashed the payload seemed to go off. The implication of the last scene in KZ3, is that there was petrusite vein (you see a grid get taken down, green explosions and all, in KZ2 but you don't know how deep it may run) running underneath the entire planet . The unexpected consequence of this is that the irradiate petrusite weapons hit "the" underground petrusite grid and caused a devastating chain reaction due to the unstable nature of irradiated petrusite.

EDIT: Alpha Centauri is a star system. Both Helgahn and Vekta are located within Alpha Centauri.

 

[noah111]

Steven ter Heide (game director) retweeted this thread.

Spoiler

*they may be watching *

 

[Schrade]

Steven ter Heide (game director) retweeted this thread.

Spoiler

*they may be watching *

He probably saw my tweet to Seb Downie about this thread.

 

[Totobeni]

See your fans disagreeing and siding with the ISA and HGH, GG?

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS!!

I doubt that GG will ever learn.

See Shadow Fall trailer, GG still forcing us to play as Vetkan/ISA and completely ignoring that after KZ3 ending and the fact that Vetkan are the bad people now,it's really sad.

Obsidian need to make a WRPG of KZ universe.

 

[AAK]

Interesting read. I'm usually fascinated by the end of the world stories. So in the Killzone franchise I take it the UCN nations were the only nations to make it out of earth alive. And I assume those UCN nations were only the Americas and Europeans? I guess that explains why I've never seen a single asian, south asian, arab, african, or latin character in any of their games (haven't played KZ3 yet though).

 

[noah111]

He probably saw my tweet to Seb Downie about this thread.

Oh I remember Seb from the KZ2 MP days, on the private forums. Will hunt that down. But Steven actually just retweeted this.

Thanks for posting that history. But the ISA is staffed by colonists despite being trained by UCN. So technically they are protecting there home because despite following orders from UCN. They normally are recruited from the colonies that they are protecting.

Hence, The Main characters of Killzone were born on Vekta.

Good point, but it doesn't alleviate the fact that the Helghast were the first on Vekta and were the ones to establish a world there with some dozen colonies.

When the ISA/UCN invaded and eventually situated, and the native Helghan population (who had now been there for generations) were slowly 'kicked out' thorough pressure to resettle to Helghan (via crack downs etc), what foundation were they (UCN) using? The ISA and any others who settled thereafter weren't colonizing a world for the first time, the infrastructure of the world was all already in place, they simply moved in.

That's what I mean by 'not their home', despite that yes post-HGC Vektans were born there and thus it makes sense to say it's their home to defend, as well.

The ISA didn't aim anything at the planet. The ISA aimed at the cruiser Jorhan was in. When the cruiser crashed the payload seemed to go off. The implication of the last scene in KZ3, is that there was petrusite vein (you see a grid get taken down, green explosions and all, in KZ2 but you don't know how deep it may run) running underneath the entire planet . The unexpected consequence of this is that the irradiate petrusite weapons hit "the" underground petrusite grid and caused a devastating chain reaction due to the unstable nature of irradiated petrusite.

Sure, but they intentionally went after him into the planet even though he would have crashed anyway. Rico just HAD to blow him up/kill him, and in doing so set off the payload that caused the chain reaction. It was the ISA's fault

 

[Kyoufu]

I doubt that GG will ever learn.

See Shadow Fall trailer, GG still forcing us to play as Vetkan/ISA and completely ignoring that after KZ3 ending and the fact that Vetkan are the bad people now,it's really sad.

Obsidian need to make a WRPG of KZ universe.

Playing as Vektan/ISA is how it should be. After all, nothing beats shooting Jin Roh dudes.

The lack of story in the games though is criminal. Do they not know people would enjoy more than just shooting in FPS games?

 

[bone_and_sinew]

People have been bitching about the franchise's story since Killzone 2. It seems Guerrilla is either incompetent or doesn't give a fuck about what fans want.

Somehow they were all ears when COD fans asked them to ruin multiplayer (which they happily did).

Ugh, this still stings. I had a blast with KZ2 multiplayer. I remember being so hyped for KZ3, I got into the beta, and it was a punch in the groin to play another COD clone.

Speaking of missed opportunities with the plot, one that was really jarring from me was never getting the Helghast civilian perspective on this whole thing. You only encounter one civilian Helghast in all of KZ2 and he's just a train operator you had to stop idiot Rico from beating up.

 

[noah111]

Bit of a spoiler, but what are the chances that Visari is the one who comes out at the end of KZ3 (after the credits)?: http://youtu.be/AYU64T84cxI?t=20s

I know it's unlikely, but I think it's possible that all this (Helghan being destroyed, even) was Visari's plan from the start of the ISA invading Helghan. Which would explain the nukes as well; the planet getting destroyed would only fuel the Helghast more, etc.

In SF the Helghast are literally one wall away from taking over the ISA and reclaiming Vekta. His plan all along? (somewhat hinted at in the timeline) I'm probably stretching it.

Interesting read. I'm usually fascinated by the end of the world stories. So in the Killzone franchise I take it the UCN nations were the only nations to make it out of earth alive. And I assume those UCN nations were only the Americas and Europeans? I guess that explains why I've never seen a single asian, south asian, arab, african, or latin character in any of their games (haven't played KZ3 yet though).

Earth is still alive and well, though. It's simply no longer the focal point of humanity. Though because it is the UCN capital/base, it's also the most technologically advanced (beyond Vekta) iirc.

The weaponry and utilities the ISA have at their disposal is bread compared to what the full UCA (military branch of UCN) have at their disposal, so you can imagine what Earth would be like.

I hope we go to Earth again, eventually, in the KZ series.

 

[Schrade]

Oh I remember Seb from the KZ2 MP days, on the private forums. Will hunt that down. But Steven actually just retweeted this.

Yeah I understand...but what I was saying was... he probably became aware of it because I sent the thread to Seb Downie hehe.

See here:

https://twitter.com/SchradeBOFH/status/307245243684773889

They all monitor each other's Twitter, of course.


Edit: Oh nevermind. I see what you linked to - the NeoGAFNewThread twitter feed. My mistake.

 

[noah111]

Edit: Oh nevermind. I see what you linked to - the NeoGAFNewThread twitter feed. My mistake.

No problem, just saw your tweets at them, seems you got some answers out of Seb at least. ;p

PS. Is the ICSA in any of the KZ games? I don't remember, but they seem to be the best of the whole lot. Like ISA minus the dickery. (year 2223)

 

[King of Cups]

Ah, memories. I used to read through the back story up until the release of KZ2. I still thought the game was pretty awesome, but it did feel like they just forwent any kind of captivating story events to have bigger, more badass gunfights.

In this respect, I'm hopeful they'll treat Shadow Fall more like Half-Life, where there are conflicts but it's not all-out war at all times. Give the player a reason to feel like something is at stake.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

By 2200 the UCN population on the just-invaded Vekta was the minority, it was primarily the ISA who were situated there. Sure, the UCN helped make it all happen, but the ISA played a huge part as well (like, imo, destroying the orbital structure and having the UCA and Helghast blame one another for who did it, when it was the ISA all along - just my theory).

As far as invading Vekta, I agree but at the same time they just got out of a great depression, and they're society is basically dead. Visari rejuvenated it all. They invaded Vekta in the same manner as it was once, in a way.

Are you saying the ISA is 'civilians militia' (may be misunderstanding you), because they're certainly more than that.

Either way I think the Helghans are fairly justified in almost everything they did, right up until Visari. That's when things got militant, as symbolized by him changing the three pillars of the Helghan symbol from 'peace, justice, and freedom' to 'duty, obedience, and loyalty' 210 years later.

It makes no sense to say it was mainly ISA who were situated there because there are no citizens of the ISA, everyone in the ISA is a citizen of the UCN. Each colony got it's own local ISA and they were more of a security group. From the timeline, "ISA duties are to include revenue gathering, policing and local defense." This is completely separate from the United Colonial Army (UCA), the army for the UCN. To be clear, Helghan and Vekta were also colonies in the UCN and had their own local ISA.

Anyways it seems you have it backwards. The UCN is the one calling the shots, not the ISA. The UCN were the ones who decided to attack, the local Vektan and Helghan ISA simply assisted.

And I still think it makes no sense that the ISA or UCA would of destroyed the massive space station orbiting Helghan since that is valuable infrastructure that surely the UCN would want to use to regulate travel, trade, and commerce between the outer colonies and Earth just like the Helghans have been. Especially taking into consideration the financial state of the UCN. It makes much more sense that the Helghan troops realized they were outmatched so tried to sabotage the station to prevent it going into UCN control.

 

[Concept17]

I knew the backstory was fairly deep, but not that much. Really awesome stuff. Shadow Fall really needs to dig into this and lose the dudebro military focus.

I'm playing through KZ3 right now, and so far everything about the game is awesome, except the characters/dialogue, and the poor choice in music. The series is in dire need of some better orchestrated music, something that really defines those OMG moments. Its such a missed opportunity with such amazing art style.

I would love if Guerrilla were to read this thread and take some notes.

Really though, pull the game away from strait military talk. Its so dreadful. Listening to the characters bicker about orders and following commands, and using all the same old one liners is extremely tiring. Give the series some personality of its own, some actual character.

 

[TheHater]

Read it....Now I wish we get to play as the Helgast so we can kill the ISA scums

 

[noah111]

It makes no sense to say it was mainly ISA who were situated there because there are no citizens of the ISA, everyone in the ISA is a citizen of the UCN. Each colony got it's own local ISA and they were more of a security group. From the timeline, "ISA duties are to include revenue gathering, policing and local defense." This is completely separate from the United Colonial Army (UCA), the army for the UCN. To be clear, Helghan and Vekta were also colonies in the UCN and had their own local ISA.

Anyways it seems you have it backwards. The UCN is the one calling the shots, not the ISA. The UCN were the ones who decided to attack, the local Vektan and Helghan ISA simply assisted.

And I still think it makes no sense that the ISA or UCA would of destroyed the massive space station orbiting Helghan since that is valuable infrastructure that surely the UCN would want to use to regulate travel, trade, and commerce between the outer colonies and Earth just like the Helghans have been. Especially taking into consideration the financial state of the UCN. It makes much more sense that the Helghan troops realized they were outmatched so tried to sabotage the station to prevent it going into UCN control.

I know what you mean, but you're kind of proving my original point. You said "the ISA were just trying to defend their home" and my point was that it wasn't their home to begin with at that point (when UCA stepped in, literally).

The ISA is under the UCN, but there is a history there of bitterness, so the relationship isn't exactly squeaky clean. There's definitely a build up with them being disjointed and unassisted by the UCN before the point of the UCA's full blown attack.

It was their decision, but if the ISA did indeed down the orbital structure, which I think is heavily hinted at, then the 'trigger' for the full war between Helghan and UCN was actually ISA's "decision".

 

[Net_Wrecker]

You know, I'm thinking that such an amazing lore just can't be told in an action FPS game. Maybe if Killzone was more open world, but at best we will see intel scattered around. They can only really tell this story through more unique ways, like objects in the environment, unless they make the cutscenes more story-heavy.

I would have loved a Killzone RPG of sorts that took us through all this, maybe like Destiny if anything

It can absolutely be told in game, just not with the BANG CRASH ZOOM style of game design they're using now. They've had 3 mainline games to flesh all this out and simply haven't. They'd rather chase CoD than do something unique.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

I know what you mean, but you're kind of proving my original point. You said "the ISA were just trying to defend their home" and my point was that it wasn't their home to begin with at that point (when UCA stepped in, literally).

The ISA is under the UCN, but there is a history there of bitterness, so the relationship isn't exactly squeaky clean. There's definitely a build up with them being disjointed and unassisted by the UCN before the point of the UCA's full blown attack.

It was their decision, but if the ISA did indeed down the orbital structure, which I think is heavily hinted at, then the 'trigger' for the full war between Helghan and UCN was actually ISA's "decision".

I see your point but a lot of the people who made up the ISA at that point were probably people from colonies all over the place who had nothing to do with the UCN taking over Vekta, even if they are technically associated with the UCN. This is where that grey area really comes into play. I see your point there.

And no, the trigger for war so to speak was the Helghast seceding after not willing to surrender their rightfully acquired powers to the UCN. The destruction of the orbital station, who's ever fault it is, is important but is no means why the Visari decided to invade Vekta.

 

[Tallshortman]

I know I keep saying this but the setting of Shadow Fall is the perfect opportunity to allow me to play as a helgast. The ISA is just so boring.

 

[Allonym]

Correct. UCN basically used the ISA to fight off the Helghan in space over a dispute. UCN wanted a piece of the pie the colonies had by controlling the entire sector. Since they owned the territory, the only fault I see with Helghan is what sounds like exorbitant prices to control trade.

The occupation of Vekta by the ISA is what finally drove everyone back to the Helghan home world and bred Visari.

It was their world and was taken by force based on a lack of communication, greed, and some idiocy. I'm surprised they thought they could win with their meager militia and space force.

Well it's not as if the Helghast were truly forced from Veckta, it was a self imposed exile and they wanted to secede themselves from the influence of the UCA and ISA. The hardships they endured were their own and the later generations were wrong to focus their hate on the innocents on Vekta. They indiscriminately killed innocents when they invaded Vekta, add this to the fact that they were positioned to starve everyone on Earth, nuke the Earth with petricite and hmmm idk, bring about a cosmic hegemony and don't forget the fact that not only did they discriminate among themselves but also see themselves as superior to all others, how anyone can see them as innocents is ignorance. I'm not saying the ISA are good guys but I'd say they are the lesser of two evils. The UCA tried to maintain peace after the Vektan invasion while the ISA merely retaliated, not initiated the hostility. They are the Federation while the Helghast are the Zabi led Zeon's living under the ideology that they are newtypes and better than oldtypes.

 

[AuthenticM]

That was a great read, but where does this lore come from ? Books ? There is absolutely nothing in the Killzone games suggesting any of that.