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[genesisblock]

Game development is a business, not a fucking charity.

So is putting the Cell processor on the PS3 with that abominable price tag and look what happened.


And an upgrade patch IS a business value strategy, one that MS has been pushing since it's BC capabilities of the X1X. You'd be insane not to see the console value jump significantly to those holding out for the PS5 for the latest exclusives. You just saved the effort of developers porting it to next-gen systems and let them dedicate their energy to the unbelievable requirements of the AAA market.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

Why do people expect something free is beyond me. Do you work for free so that you expect others to provide you free goodies ? Even communist regimes didn't work like this.

PS5 has very good price, so why do you expect some freebies ?

Backward compatibility and maybe boost mode (most likely not at launch) for some games should be free. Everything else will be paid.

P.S. Also Sony is not Jim Ryan and MS is not Phil Spencer. They are spokesmen for corporations that earn money from you. And you act like they are your friends that "betray" you. This is kindergarten level logic.

Imagine you have to buy another version of game x because you replaced some parts of your gaming pc.
I dont get why people are fine with getting buttfucked by Sony.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Patch PS4 games to look and run better vs re-sell you a up-res’d PS5 “remaster”? Come on, this is Sony we’re talking about. TLOU2 remastered for PS5 will be out within 18 months, same with god of war. No chance they’re gonna give you that for free.

Imagine you have to buy another version of game x because you replaced some parts of your gaming pc.
I dont get why people are fine with getting buttfucked by Sony.

Fanboys gonna fanboy. That’s really all it comes down to. If Sony says that it’s too hard to give them updates to take advantage of another 8TF they’ll believe it and defend it ferociously. If Sony announced a remaster that’s just the same game but at higher res they’ll then add that to their list wars and promote it to death as only being possible because of Sony’s genius.

Oof, spoken like a true armchair developer. Dude, you have no idea how much work it is.

Lol if the devs had a little bit of foresight it is absolutely no work at all. Games like Gears 4 and 5 automatically ram at a better frame rate and resolution on the One X because the devs made them run at a dynamic resolution. The resolution changed to keep the frame rate high, and even then it might have a few drops in frame rate. With more power they just essentially automatically stay at max res and frame rate.

Any dev not using dynamic res these days is dumb.

 

[MrFunSocks]

My understanding of the new Sony approach is that it goes like this: silence is preferable to bad news.

Lack of clarity is seen as a smaller issue than a potential backlash.

It's a pretty upsetting strategy.

Silence? Nah, just straight up lie and don’t even pretend to care because your legion of defenders will damage control for you.

 

[Kupfer]

At least Cyberpunk2077 will be playable day one on ps5

 

[yurqqa]

Imagine you have to buy another version of game x because you replaced some parts of your gaming pc.
I dont get why people are fine with getting buttfucked by Sony.

This is called backward compatibility. And Sony promises it.
If you want to have an improved version that require money to develop, you have to compensate.

I like CDPR very much for promising a free patch. But it's a part of marketing for upcoming Cyberpunk. They decided to invest money.

Sony have invested the money the other way - reducing the price of PS5 (great), buying (timed?) exclusives (not so great) and so on. Providing free patches could also be an investment on their side, but they decided otherwise.

We'll see if they made the right decision after some time looking at sales.

 

[trikster40]

So is putting the Cell processor on the PS3 with that abominable price tag and look what happened.


And an upgrade patch IS a business value strategy, one that MS has been pushing since it's BC capabilities of the X1X. You'd be insane not to see the console value jump significantly to those holding out for the PS5 for the latest exclusives. You just saved the effort of developers porting it to next-gen systems and let them dedicate their energy to the unbelievable requirements of the AAA market.

I really think putting her PS1 and PS2 chipsets on the PS3 motherboard is what drove up the cost. Don’t thought people cared enough about BC to warrant the extra cost. They were wrong. They took out the chipsets, price went down, consoles started selling.

 

[MaximusPayne]

It's the reason I can wait. The best feature I hoped for they are not even addressing.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Just give your order to me and I will be good.

 

[BlackGauna]

What is so hard about raising the resolution of games? They should have a config setting somewhere because PS4 and Pro versions run at different resolutions.

Even if they only use the GPU of the PS5 in BC mode, its higher clocks should be enough for a simple raise of resolution.

Why are people saying that it is so expensive to do that? It's as if on PC you would have to pay to enable 4K resolution in the game settings. That's dumb and lazy by Sony.

And developers need to update their engines to work with the new hardware anyway. Just apply the updates to the new games, and they will run better on PS5. It is no extra cost, they need to do that anyways.

At least do it for your most recent and/or popular games. If they can't even provide a simple upres for their PS+ Collection games, then why even bother? You want to promote your new powerful 4K console with games running at 1440p?

 

[John Mullins]

Yeah Sony will waste a ton of time, resources and money giving you free patches to old games you've already completed at the expense of new actual PS5 games and development. They should hand deliver this news to you on a scroll as soon as it is ready.

What planet are people on?

There is totally nobody waiting for your pre order should you cancel it over this reason.

 

[The_Mike]

We are exactly two months away from release here in europe... in two months they can give us a lot of the info that is missing

So, you think it's a superb strategy not to reveal a questionable thing by players now? Why wouldn't they reveal it now if they actually gave what the players wants?

Better to be silent and disappoint than tell the bad things now and potentially lose customers (how tiny percent that would be)

 

[PlayStaytion]

I was able to get a pre-order for the PS5 but other than Miles Morales UE, not much else interests me. What had me excited about getting a PS5 at launch was that I expected at least Sony to come out with some patches for PS4 games to boost resolution/framerate. It would be fun to replay some of these games at 60fps. At the very least I was expecting announcements for TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima since they were launching just a few months before the PS5. I guess there's always games that have unlocked framerate options, like FFXV or God of War which should boost to a stable 60fps on PS5 without a patch, though they will be limited to 1080p.

I just think it's shitty of Sony not to tell us if and when patches are coming.

The way they marketed gtav says a lot about their willingness to support this idea.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The bottom line is that Jim Ryan I am now convinced is an absolutely shitty messenger. He is no Don Mattrick level of shit, but he is clearly a suit who doesn't have an understanding of gamers but knows they can make him money. PS5 is going to do fine, but there are a lot of unknowns and yes I would love to hear more about older games getting enhanced. I'm pretty sure there are people who may have held off playing games like Ghost of Tsushima (outstanding game) to play it enhanced on PS5.

I will certainly own a PS5, but right now my focus is now shifted to Xbox Series X, since Cyberpunk and AC: Valhalla are the games I most want to play. Demons Souls so far is the only must have PS5 launch title for me. Miles Morales is fine, but Spiderman was a very good game, but not one I have to play immediately since I got burned out by the repetition of the first Spiderman.

 

[PlayStaytion]

The way they marketed gtav says a lot about their willingness to support this idea.

The PS5 ecosystem is just more expensive , everything every excuse they make is to make a profit out of their losses.

 

[DForce]

I might wait to get one early next year if they don't have any patches for the their first part PlayStation 4 games.

 

[Fafalada]

I think they said they have tested 100s of games in boost mode (which would likely mean you don't need a patch for increased fps) but it would be good to get some actual examples and concrete information.

Not even MS with all its focus on BC has given much in terms concrete examples - just a lot of allusions and hints. Ie. show 1-2 games and let people extrapolate to how many they want to dream about - works way better than putting real numerical limits to the actually supported stuff at launch.
I agree it'd be nice to get a specific callout or two from Sony but that'd still be smoke & mirrors anyway - the PR departments have no reason to be explicit about all of the supported games.

That said - 'increased FPS' will obviously be primarily attributed to unlocked framerate games (1p has a fair number of those - including GoW, Infamous, Until Dawn, TLG...) where no patches are needed to get noticeable performance improvements. I'd like to see actual patches and 1st party has a ton of precedent there with Pro - but it's stands to reason that even if they do those - the focus will remain be on new releases first. This isn't an upgraded launch with no new software like Pro/X were.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The bottom line is that Jim Ryan I am now convinced is an absolutely shitty messenger. He is no Don Mattrick level of shit, but he is clearly a suit who doesn't have an understanding of gamers but knows they can make him money. PS5 is going to do fine, but there are a lot of unknowns and yes I would love to hear more about older games getting enhanced. I'm pretty sure there are people who may have held off playing games like Ghost of Tsushima (outstanding game) to play it enhanced on PS5.

I will certainly own a PS5, but right now my focus is now shifted to Xbox Series X, since Cyberpunk and AC: Valhalla are the games I most want to play. Demons Souls so far is the only must have PS5 launch title for me. Miles Morales is fine, but Spiderman was a very good game, but not one I have to play immediately since I got burned out by the repetition of the first Spiderman.

I held off... waiting for enhanced PS5 version. They said the top 100 PS4 games would be enhanced, I assumed that would include GoT and TLOU II.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

I have two pre-orders I am reconsidering as well, for me It is not the BC but there are still things about the console I want to know and now with the $70 games I am thinking of just forgetting the PS5 till next year and stay a year behind playing older PS5 releases which are cheaper . I am usually a digital game purchaser but I am going to go for physical and used this gen Or at a minimum I will just wait a year to play them when they go on-sale

 

[jakinov]

Yes, it's what I expect because It's how PC has worked during 20 years. You change your graphic card you upgrade graphics for your old games. I think we've arrived a point this must be done also on consoles.

Except the game was already created in away to work with almost any graphics card because that's an inherent requirement of the platform. You don't get an upgrade of the game for free from developers you have the same game that was always capable of doing what it does when you get your new GPU. The vast vast vast majority of PC developers (if any) do not go and patch games years after release to take advantage of new GPUs. Which essentially what people are expecting on consoles for free.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Foegive me if this has already been asked and answered but is there a list of games getting patches? And the content of those patches?

The only one I know of is destiny which is 4k 60 fps

 

[DForce]

What's with the sudden expectation that businesses are going to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars to give free updates to old games? Just being allowed to deliver the update is probably going to cost them at least 10k per platform. This is the first real internet enabled generation with real backwards compatibility at launch and both companies put money up to do it already to make this happen and now you want them to take it to another level and spend a bunch of money giving you free upgrades to their games?

They made patches when the PlayStation 4 Pro releases and it came at no additional cost.

Ghost of Tushima and Last of Us Part II recently released and they can't offer a 4K 60fps patch for new consoles?

 

[Paulxo87]

Wouldn't whatever boost mode the ps5 will have automatically upscale GOT and last of us part 2? I thought that was going to be a thing no patch needed.

 

[jakinov]

They made patches when the PlayStation 4 Pro releases and it came at no additional cost.

Ghost of Tushima and Last of Us Part II recently released and they can't offer a 4K 60fps patch for new consoles?

Because they wanted to do it at a cost to themselves at no additional cost to consumers as a business decision

Nobody says that they can't but it costs money to do this. If they want to spend money to do it, and give it for free then great that's their prerogative. But it's silly that people are so entitled that they expect companies to go out of their way and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to patch old games they've already sold to you for free.

 

[Elder Legend]

I am sorry but I never understood the obsession with BC. Sure, its nice to get upgrades for previous titles but st the end of day I personally buy a system for new toys not for the old toys I've played years ago.

I don't see how this is a big deal. Stop hating on a company if they don't always meet your smaller demands. You buy PS5 for PS5 games not old experiences. Get over it lol.

 

[T-Cake]

Lol if the devs had a little bit of foresight it is absolutely no work at all. Games like Gears 4 and 5 automatically ram at a better frame rate and resolution on the One X because the devs made them run at a dynamic resolution. The resolution changed to keep the frame rate high, and even then it might have a few drops in frame rate. With more power they just essentially automatically stay at max res and frame rate.

Any dev not using dynamic res these days is dumb.

Yes, I apologize. The Japanese devs just seem to be stuck in the past with their programming methods.

 

[TonyK]

Except the game was already created in away to work with almost any graphics card because that's an inherent requirement of the platform. You don't get an upgrade of the game for free from developers you have the same game that was always capable of doing what it does when you get your new GPU. The vast vast vast majority of PC developers (if any) do not go and patch games years after release to take advantage of new GPUs. Which essentially what people are expecting on consoles for free.

Ok, that's true. Well explained.

 

[DForce]

Because they wanted to do it at a cost to themselves at no additional cost to consumers as a business decision

Nobody says that they can't but it costs money to do this. If they want to spend money to do it, and give it for free then great that's their prerogative. But it's silly that people are so entitled that they expect companies to go out of their way and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to patch old games they've already sold to you for free.

They made enhanced patches to sell you on the PlayStation 4 Pro console.

That was the point. If they didn't offer any enhancements then there would be no benefit of buying a PlayStation 4 console.

They're capable patching just a handful of their first party titles to 4K60fps, but if they don't, then it's likely because they want to sell you on a remastered version of the game, which means they want to take advantage of the consumer by trying to be as greedy as possible.

The cost is not nearly as steep as remastering a game with upgraded assets. Yes, it still cost money, but they can easily make this back by offering this option to people.

 

[jakinov]

They made enhanced patches to sell you on the PlayStation 4 Pro console.

That was the point. If they didn't offer any enhancements then there would be no benefit of buying a PlayStation 4 console.

They're capable patching just a handful of their first party titles to 4K60fps, but if they don't, then it's likely because they want to sell you on a remastered version of the game, which means they want to take advantage of the consumer by trying to be as greedy as possible.

The cost is not nearly as steep as remastering a game with upgraded assets. Yes, it still cost money, but they can easily make this back by offering this option to people.

So are you proposing that they charge for it if they patch it? If so then we have no contention.

 

[DForce]

So are you proposing that they charge for it if they patch it? If so then we have no contention.

No.

Offering the option to play as a higher frame-rate and resolution. They can make the money back from new customers and returning customers.

 

[PlayStaytion]

They made enhanced patches to sell you on the PlayStation 4 Pro console.

That was the point. If they didn't offer any enhancements then there would be no benefit of buying a PlayStation 4 console.

They're capable patching just a handful of their first party titles to 4K60fps, but if they don't, then it's likely because they want to sell you on a remastered version of the game, which means they want to take advantage of the consumer by trying to be as greedy as possible.

The cost is not nearly as steep as remastering a game with upgraded assets. Yes, it still cost money, but they can easily make this back by offering this option to people.

It's simple for Microsoft to apply all windows benefits to their home console , they literally put a little to no effort to patch their existing games for the series x , Phil did talked about it many times , the best one he talked about it in details I think when he did interviewed giant bomb .

 

[Reallink]

You're not rethinking shit, and Sony knows it. Their cache of IP, studios, budgets, and paid exclusives makes them an effective monopoly. No one who's "Core Gamer" enough to post on a videogame forum can realistically avoid PS5, they know they can do whatever they want.

 

[veterangamerUK]

You're not rethinking shit, and Sony knows it. Their cache of IP, studios, budgets, and paid exclusives makes them an effective monopoly. No one who's "Core Gamer" enough to post on a videogame forum can realistically avoid PS5, they know they can do whatever they want.

Yeah, Sony are kinda now in the position of cable companies in the South Park episode. Their reaction if you wanted to mouth off about cross-gen and game price increases:

 

[Calverz]

They got to do something for bloodborne man. Come on.

 

[ethomaz]

At least Cyberpunk2077 will be playable day one on ps5

PS5 has native hardware PS4 and PS4 Pro BC... all games will run on day one (except these that needs some accessory not compatible with PS5).

BTW Cyberpunk2077 will receive a BC patch at launch to run in PS5 BC Boost Mode too... and after a new patch in the future to take advantage of PS5 feature running in PS5 native mode.

 

[MrFunSocks]

I really think putting her PS1 and PS2 chipsets on the PS3 motherboard is what drove up the cost. Don’t thought people cared enough about BC to warrant the extra cost. They were wrong. They took out the chipsets, price went down, consoles started selling.

The PS1 is emulated via software on the PS3.

 

[Clear]

They got to do something for bloodborne man. Come on.

That's on FROM, assuming they can spare the resources to patch it.

 

[Calverz]

That's on FROM, assuming they can spare the resources to patch it.

Isnt the frame rate unlocked? Like cant sony just allow the machine to push to 60fps?

 

[Zimmy68]

Not sure if mentioned but Control Ultimate Edition gets free PS5 version.

 

[gojira96]

I don't think that "Spider-Man" remaster will be the only titles with those kinds of upgrade.

If Horizon: Forbidden West utilizes the same technique in the PS5 version as Spider-Man will - upgraded character models (hair, skin, lip sync, expressions), faster loading, maybe more content added from game design perspective? (Flying) - then Guerrilla Games should upgrade Horizon: Zero Dawn to include these, and sell it too.

 

[jakinov]

No.

Offering the option to play as a higher frame-rate and resolution. They can make the money back from new customers and returning customers.

They could try or they could spend that money on something else that they can more directly monetize on. Not hope to find new people or hope that existing people will put money into a game (I'm assuming with DLC otherwise I don't see how they would make money from a returning customer) just because it had a PS5 patch. They still have to sell a decent amount of new copies and that has to be the actual driving reason.

 

[iHaunter]

I was able to get a pre-order for the PS5 but other than Miles Morales UE, not much else interests me. What had me excited about getting a PS5 at launch was that I expected at least Sony to come out with some patches for PS4 games to boost resolution/framerate. It would be fun to replay some of these games at 60fps. At the very least I was expecting announcements for TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima since they were launching just a few months before the PS5. I guess there's always games that have unlocked framerate options, like FFXV or God of War which should boost to a stable 60fps on PS5 without a patch, though they will be limited to 1080p.

I just think it's shitty of Sony not to tell us if and when patches are coming.

I'll happily take your pre-order. I want a new console because I don't play old games.

 

[DForce]

They could try or they could spend that money on something else that they can more directly monetize on. Not hope to find new people or hope that existing people will put money into a game (I'm assuming with DLC otherwise I don't see how they would make money from a returning customer) just because it had a PS5 patch. They still have to sell a decent amount of new copies and that has to be the actual driving reason.

You're assuming it costs a lot to make a patch.

 

[trikster40]

The PS1 is emulated via software on the PS3.

Well, it had the Emotion Engine which had the PS1 chipset built into it, so it wasn’t emulated via software. It could play discs.

 

[hussar16]

no talk about resolution or framerates from Sony. the silence on this topic is troubling. Xbox X markets their bc games as being 4k60 fps and bringing a new experince to these old games while sony says ''maybe'' we can get a ''boost mode''to 100 top ps4 games , their not being transparent at all ,thats why im buying xbox x aswell and didnt preorder ps5

 

[hussar16]

Why do people expect something free is beyond me. Do you work for free so that you expect others to provide you free goodies ? Even communist regimes didn't work like this.

PS5 has very good price, so why do you expect some freebies ?

Backward compatibility and maybe boost mode (most likely not at launch) for some games should be free. Everything else will be paid.

P.S. Also Sony is not Jim Ryan and MS is not Phil Spencer. They are spokesmen for corporations that earn money from you. And you act like they are your friends that "betray" you. This is kindergarten level logic.

i expect a free upgrade of old games and a new expeience at 4k 60 fps for those games because its competiton does it. xbox x from the get go adverised it while sony keeps quiet about becuase frankly i dont think they can match so its best to stay quiet on the topic so people forget

 

[MrFunSocks]

Well, it had the Emotion Engine which had the PS1 chipset built into it, so it wasn’t emulated via software. It could play discs.

Not the ones that didn't have PS2 hardware built in, which was all of them apart from the launch 60gb and then 80gb models.

 

[Hostile_18]

Yeah Sony will waste a ton of time, resources and money giving you free patches to old games you've already completed at the expense of new actual PS5 games and development. They should hand deliver this news to you on a scroll as soon as it is ready.

What planet are people on?

There is totally nobody waiting for your pre order should you cancel it over this reason.

Boardroom meeting: 'Right guys with all the money from Cyberpunk we can either create the Witcher 4 or patch the Witcher 3, choice is yours".

 

[trikster40]

Not the ones that didn't have PS2 hardware built in, which was all of them apart from the launch 60gb and then 80gb models.

That’s what we were originally talking about, the $600 OG PS3. The cost of BC is what drove up the cost.

 

[jakinov]

You're assuming it costs a lot to make a patch.

Unless things have changed or theirs new incentives from the platform owners, it can cost as much as $40,000 (possibly per platform) just to get a regular patch just made available to download. But that does not account for the time you have to spend to actually make the changes. Employees cost money and these changes aren't always simple as flipping on a switch. Significantly even more money if it's a full fledged remaster like some people here expect for free. They'd have to also make a multiple back on their investment for it to even be worth the risk too because it's hard to tell if there's a bunch of people out there that would even buy your game (that right now is also likely heavily discounted) solely because of the patch. You assume that there's a good amount of people out there that are going to throw money at the game solely because of the patch. It's probably mostly people who already own the PS4 version of games here who just wanted better versions on PS5 who will put $0 in.