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The Last of Us 2 Tops the UK Charts again and Iron Man VR debuts at second place

lukilladog

Member
You still don't get it. VR looks like shit in videos, if you've tried or not. It's just not meant to be watched because its not representative of what the user sees.

It will never be a big time twitch viewer, even if there were 50 million headsets. You need another angle.

You said that once you try VR, streams look awful. It´s obvious most players have not tried VR so it should not look awful to them and still pull some decent numbers?, 5 viewers for a mainstream Marvel franchise is just ridiculous. And what makes it look like shit in videos?.
 
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lukilladog

Member
think about a trip to, I don't know, let's say Bahamas. The sights, the swimming, the coconut beverages... it's all so wonderful you decide to register for posterity with a head-mounted camera

you go back home and bring in friends to watch your wonderful trip... and all the stuttering and wild turns in the footage make it nauseating and unwatchable

that's VR videos is a nutshell. The trip is well worth it, watching it is not.

Plenty of FPS have wild turns and stuttering, yet they are extremely popular on streams.
 
Well, Switch doesn't have enough games, and got lots of of switches sold. TLOU2 is a semi-short experience, won't rival MP games but it did pretty impressive.

You're right that the 2020 GOTY Animal Crossing is 1st in sales as well by a comfortable margin at that. Pretty wholesome.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Convenient events?
TLOU1 gets a free pass when Joel conveniently crosses the Fireflies when Ellie is about to die from drowning?

Or how Bill conveniently finds them just as they are about to be killed by Clickers?

Ellie conveniently has machete next to her right hand when she kills James.
It happens again when she kills David.

lol.

I can go on and on, but TLOU 1 was a good story and people ignored it for obvious reasons. Seems like people are finding reasons not to like certain parts of the game.
 
Ellie conveniently has machete next to her right hand when she kills James.
It happens again when she kills David.

lol.

I can go on and on, but TLOU 1 was a good story and people ignored it for obvious reasons. Seems like people are finding reasons not to like certain parts of the game.

I bet people are forgetting the coincidence that creates the plot of TLOU 1, too. Joel and Tess having the run-in with Robert who Marlene is ALSO looking for, OMG CONTRIVED.
 

Romulus

Member
You said that once you try VR, streams look awful. It´s obvious most players have not tried VR so it should not look awful to them and still pull some decent numbers?, 5 viewers for a mainstream Marvel franchise is just ridiculous. And what makes it look like shit in videos?.

It's just as bad if you haven't tried VR. Maybe worse. No frame of reference. 2d videos like twitter can't convey 3d scenes that you get in VR. It just doesn't work. Theres no depth perception or scale. The shitty, janky hands you see in VR videos are also gone once you start playing.
 

lukilladog

Member
But you're seeing exactly what the streamer is, at least 95% it. Watching VR is maybe 10% of visual information you receive. Maybe.

You didn´t get his point, he is just saying that watching a VR stream is uncomfortable. Watching a 3d video of it would make it even more uncomfortable.
 

lukilladog

Member
It's just as bad if you haven't tried VR. Maybe worse. No frame of reference. 2d videos like twitter can't convey 3d scenes that you get in VR. It just doesn't work. Theres no depth perception or scale. The shitty, janky hands you see in VR videos are also gone once you start playing.

So you don´t need to try VR to know VR streams are shity now, and I don´t know why you keep pulling this argument that because you don´t have the perception of depth, then people become not interested in watching streams of VR games, it doesn´t even follow. Streams of standard games don´t have a perception of depth either and they do just fine.
 

Romulus

Member
So you don´t need to try VR to know VR streams are shity now, and I don´t know why you keep pulling this argument that because you don´t have the perception of depth, then people become not interested in watching streams of VR games, it doesn´t even follow. Streams of standard games don´t have a perception of depth either and they do just fine.

Playing a VR game is based around things you can't really notice in a 2d video. It's designed around that. Watching a video of it, you're simply missing most of it. Watching a video of a normal game you're not, because they're both on a 2d plane.
 

lukilladog

Member
Playing a VR game is based around things you can't really notice in a 2d video. It's designed around that. Watching a video of it, you're simply missing most of it. Watching a video of a normal game you're not, because they're both on a 2d plane.

So if you watch VR games on stream then you miss the magic sauce and they become boring to watch. All of a sudden the public lose interest on how good the game might be, how are the graphics, the story, is it any good, is it any fun, what the streamer has to say, what the other people in the chat think about the game, does it make Iron Man any justice?. No, they don´t want any information from streams because they can´t get the full experience... so they would rather have no information at all, not from streams, review sites, nor youtube, because they don´t provide the full experience. Such a bad excuse, in reality it´s far more likely that they don´t want information from the streams because they aren´t interested in an Iron Man VR game in the first place.
 

Valentino

Member
Convenient events?
TLOU1 gets a free pass when Joel conveniently crosses the Fireflies when Ellie is about to die from drowning?

Or how Bill conveniently finds them just as they are about to be killed by Clickers?
Too right! People seem to forget how the first game went when singing it’s praises. They sing it's praises but critique the same stuff the first game did. Reminds me of the amount of people who hated the first games ending at the time but nowwww say it ended perfectly in conjunction to their critique on part 2.
 
Ellie conveniently has machete next to her right hand when she kills James.
It happens again when she kills David.

lol.

I can go on and on, but TLOU 1 was a good story and people ignored it for obvious reasons. Seems like people are finding reasons not to like certain parts of the game.

Convenient events?
TLOU1 gets a free pass when Joel conveniently crosses the Fireflies when Ellie is about to die from drowning?

Or how Bill conveniently finds them just as they are about to be killed by Clickers?

Man, I love that when people argue against plot holes in a franchise they then try to force plot holes in previous installments that did a better job of it. Not all contrivances are created equal and dismissing plot holes because they didn't bother YOU doesn't mean they don't exist. No one was ever taken out of a story because it made too much sense.

But since you guys mentioned them:
Bill lives in the town and has the entire fucking place rigged. Joel and Ellie set off explosions and traps which would alert Bill that someone is running around his town. Makes sense that he would be running toward the loud collection of infected and shots being fired to see what was happening in his own damn town.

Fireflies showing up when they did was decidedly IN convenient, but again, they were headed towards a firefly base, so they were known to be in the area, Joel and Ellie were making a shit ton of noise, so being found by a patrol after all of that isn't particularly out of sorts.

First off, Ellie was on the butcher's block where they cut up bodies and thus there was a butcher knife lodged in the wood.

David was running around with a machete trying to kill her. She leapt on his back and they struggled. The Machete would be in the area.

Don't get me wrong, TLoU did have a few plot contrivances, I always felt the biggest ones were the appearances of the infected and hunters at the most dramatically appropriate times and dropping from ceilings and the like. Game stuff, but at times it did cause an eye roll, even on my most recent playthrough. The entire end scenario of the fireflies and Ellie is also laughable on its face that the only reason it makes sense at all is that the game did such a good job making the fireflies out to be terrorists with delusions of grandeur that you could buy them rushing forward without doing more than cursory studies of Ellie because they were just that desperate for a win. That and the ending of part 1 didn't hinge on the fireflies actually acting like anything close to a rational actor. It was about the lie at the end, and how far Joel had come, so it didn't actively get in the way of what they intended.

Beyond that even, one or two contrivances tend to be easily ignored, once they stack up on each other is when you have a danger of losing the audience. Kind of like how being saved once from off camera is fine, once it has happened a half dozen times it gets old fast.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Man, I love that when people argue against plot holes in a franchise they then try to force plot holes in previous installments that did a better job of it. Not all contrivances are created equal and dismissing plot holes because they didn't bother YOU doesn't mean they don't exist. No one was ever taken out of a story because it made too much sense.

But since you guys mentioned them:
Bill lives in the town and has the entire fucking place rigged. Joel and Ellie set off explosions and traps which would alert Bill that someone is running around his town. Makes sense that he would be running toward the loud collection of infected and shots being fired to see what was happening in his own damn town.

Fireflies showing up when they did was decidedly IN convenient, but again, they were headed towards a firefly base, so they were known to be in the area, Joel and Ellie were making a shit ton of noise, so being found by a patrol after all of that isn't particularly out of sorts.

First off, Ellie was on the butcher's block where they cut up bodies and thus there was a butcher knife lodged in the wood.

David was running around with a machete trying to kill her. She leapt on his back and they struggled. The Machete would be in the area.

Don't get me wrong, TLoU did have a few plot contrivances, I always felt the biggest ones were the appearances of the infected and hunters at the most dramatically appropriate times and dropping from ceilings and the like. Game stuff, but at times it did cause an eye roll, even on my most recent playthrough. The entire end scenario of the fireflies and Ellie is also laughable on its face that the only reason it makes sense at all is that the game did such a good job making the fireflies out to be terrorists with delusions of grandeur that you could buy them rushing forward without doing more than cursory studies of Ellie because they were just that desperate for a win. That and the ending of part 1 didn't hinge on the fireflies actually acting like anything close to a rational actor. It was about the lie at the end, and how far Joel had come, so it didn't actively get in the way of what they intended.

Beyond that even, one or two contrivances tend to be easily ignored, once they stack up on each other is when you have a danger of losing the audience. Kind of like how being saved once from off camera is fine, once it has happened a half dozen times it gets old fast.

If you're going to talk about plot holes, at least KNOW what plot holes are first.


You may have no picked up on this but..

We're not talking about plot holes, we're talking about convenient circumstances stances.

Convenient circumstance are not plot holes.


Bill lives in the town and has the entire fucking place rigged. Joel and Ellie set off explosions and traps which would alert Bill that someone is running around his town. Makes sense that he would be running toward the loud collection of infected and shots being fired to see what was happening in his own damn town.

You're telling us this we already know and you're missing the point.

- Owen and Abby knew Tommy was located in Jackson
- Owen spotted two people on patrol going to the ski resort.
- Abby followed the tracks leading the ski resort.
- The ski resort is where Joel and Tommy love doing patrols, which you find out during the second flashback.

It's perfectly understandable WHY Abby encountered Joel and Tommy.

Do you see the issue? Both were saved and it's understandable why Joel and Bill would be there to save the other, the issue were pointing out is that people are complaining it happens in TLOU 2 and NOT TLOU 2.

THAT is the issue we're pointing out.




First off, Ellie was on the butcher's block where they cut up bodies and thus there was a butcher knife lodged in the wood.

David was running around with a machete trying to kill her. She leapt on his back and they struggled. The Machete would be in the area.

Don't get me wrong, TLoU did have a few plot contrivances, I always felt the biggest ones were the appearances of the infected and hunters at the most dramatically appropriate times and dropping from ceilings and the like. Game stuff, but at times it did cause an eye roll, even on my most recent playthrough. The entire end scenario of the fireflies and Ellie is also laughable on its face that the only reason it makes sense at all is that the game did such a good job making the fireflies out to be terrorists with delusions of grandeur that you could buy them rushing forward without doing more than cursory studies of Ellie because they were just that desperate for a win. That and the ending of part 1 didn't hinge on the fireflies actually acting like anything close to a rational actor. It was about the lie at the end, and how far Joel had come, so it didn't actively get in the way of what they intended.

And still missed the point.

Ellie and Dina jump over the roadblock while riding a horse. Dina falls to the side while Ellie is captured. She returns to save Ellie from being killed.

Her falling is a problem, but having a machete placed near her had while she's pinned down to kill James to escape is not?

We don't care that this happened in the game, we're pointing out inconsistencies in people's criticism of both games.

That is the point we're making.
 

Romulus

Member
So if you watch VR games on stream then you miss the magic sauce and they become boring to watch. All of a sudden the public lose interest on how good the game might be, how are the graphics, the story, is it any good, is it any fun, what the streamer has to say, what the other people in the chat think about the game, does it make Iron Man any justice?. No, they don´t want any information from streams because they can´t get the full experience... so they would rather have no information at all, not from streams, review sites, nor youtube, because they don´t provide the full experience. Such a bad excuse, in reality it´s far more likely that they don´t want information from the streams because they aren´t interested in an Iron Man VR game in the first place.

You're not making sense. You're literally arguing that VR games not having Twitch views is why its failing. You're attempting all these bizarre angles trying to diminish it. Look, VR games look like Wii shit if you're watching it, no wonder why people don't like to watch. I hate it. Jittery hands, FOV and scale is just way different. Try another angle, 100 million headsets I doubt you've ever see a big streaming market for it. And how do you explain the sales of Iron Man VR etc outpacing other games if no one cares? Fake? That's your go to angle of course.
 
VR games are designed to be pretty slow, fast camera movement is not a problem on streams.

I've recorded and watched a few of my own play sessions in Borderlands 2 VR and compared it to the same areas in flat BL2 streams - action is the same, camera is much more stable and smooth in the TV game, obviously

seriously, go watch any headcam footage and barf at will. You're basically watching through the eyes of someone else without knowing their intentions: they may want to suddenly look left or behind, or down at their belt or whatever and as a mere watcher you have no control over this wild swinging. This simply doesn't happen in TV games, even FPS are just a lot more well-mannered.

is this the only reason for VR gaming streaming not being as popular? No, I think there's a more pressing matter: VR gamers are isolated in the game world, just playing and having fun while wearing a "mask". They don't engage as easily with their audience and, worse, their face is not visible - their emotions are not visible, their pretty faces are not visible or whatever other asinine motives lead one to watch someone play a videogame rather than just play the fucking thing

I don't care for streaming, but there you are - my analysis for why VR streaming is not as popular, besides the obvious fact too that VR is a gimmick and everyone hates it
 
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lukilladog

Member
I've recorded and watched a few of my own play sessions in Borderlands 2 VR and compared it to the same areas in flat BL2 streams - action is the same, camera is much more stable and smooth in the TV game, obviously

seriously, go watch any headcam footage and barf at will. You're basically watching through the eyes of someone else without knowing their intentions: they may want to suddenly look left or behind, or down at their belt or whatever and as a mere watcher you have no control over this wild swinging. This simply doesn't happen in TV games, even FPS are just a lot more well-mannered.

is this the only reason for VR gaming streaming not being as popular? No, I think there's a more pressing matter: VR gamers are isolated in the game world, just playing and having fun while wearing a "mask". They don't engage as easily with their audience and, worse, their face is not visible - their emotions are not visible, their pretty faces are not visible or whatever other asinine motives lead one to watch someone play a videogame rather than just play the fucking thing

I don't care for streaming, but there you are - my analysis for why VR streaming is not as popular, besides the obvious fact too that VR is a gimmick and everyone hates it

Borderlands is not a game designed for VR. And some of the most popular streamers don´t even use a camera, check up Fextralife at twitch right now streaming Ghost of Tsushima, +30k vieweres. You are grasping at straws now.
 

lukilladog

Member
You're not making sense. You're literally arguing that VR games not having Twitch views is why its failing. You're attempting all these bizarre angles trying to diminish it. Look, VR games look like Wii shit if you're watching it, no wonder why people don't like to watch. I hate it. Jittery hands, FOV and scale is just way different. Try another angle, 100 million headsets I doubt you've ever see a big streaming market for it. And how do you explain the sales of Iron Man VR etc outpacing other games if no one cares? Fake? That's your go to angle of course.

You have a very dishonest way of misrepresenting other people arguments, I´m done.
 

Romulus

Member
You have a very dishonest way of misrepresenting other people arguments, I´m done.

What was dishonest? Be specific. You literally said earlier that Iron Man VR sales were high because "sony games always rank oddly high."

I mean, that means the game did not sell well, you're implying that the sales are fake. Just like you said weeks ago that Oculus Quest, Rift S, and Index being sold out was a combined effort to make VR look like it was selling well to push the industry. Obviously zero evidence again.

You have this way of implying that things you're against are always "failing" and anything positive mentioned about them is untrue. The only thing you have left to rag on is twitch viewers, in VR. lol
 
Borderlands is not a game designed for VR. And some of the most popular streamers don´t even use a camera, check up Fextralife at twitch right now streaming Ghost of Tsushima, +30k vieweres. You are grasping at straws now.

no, I'm not checking any asshole playing games when I could be playing BL2 in VR.

BTW, bring more FPS and racing games to VR where they rightfully belong to, devs.
 
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