Support NeoGAF

[DForce]

Bro, look at how much blood he's lost in just a fraction of a second, the dude needs medical attention.

Class 3​

At this stage, you lose 30 to 40 percent of your blood volume, which is between 1,500 and 2,000 mL. You’ll experience a major drop in your blood pressure and begin to see changes to your mental status.

An eye doesn't hold that much blood.




Kill Bill would have two major plot holes because Evil Driver lost both of her eyes in this movie.

The question mark indicates that she didn't die.

Writers research these things.

I know you're going to find anyway to spin this so I'm not going to even continue this. lol

 

[Generic]

A little late but SPOILERS for TLOU, TLOU 2, and God of War in this post for anyone wanting to avoid them.

As players, we felt for Joel because we watched him interacting with his daughter lovingly mere minutes before she was shot and died right in his arms. That was our very first introduction to Joel. We saw him fight to keep a little girl safe throughout an entire game who, in many ways, was slowly becoming his own daughter. Then at the end, we watched him make the decision to save her life instead of be killed just for a chance at a cure. Something a father or someone who loves her wouldn't be able to just let happen, no matter what the reason. We watched him attempt to befriend two brothers despite his lack of trust in people. We also liked Ellie, who clearly loved Joel. So, as players and people who had many hours of experiences with them, we were emotionally invested in them and their success. An attachment was developed. Which was intentional.

And yet the last half hour of the game made Joel very unlikable. The second game actually makes him more sympathetic.

 

[Varteras]

And yet the last half hour of the game made Joel very unlikable. The second game actually makes him more sympathetic.

That depends on who you ask. Remember what I said, we spent hours and hours getting to know Joel. Our first interaction with him was him being with his daughter and then her dying in his arms minutes later. We were attached to this man. Even if you personally didn't agree with his actions at the tail end of the game, many people either did or at least understood why he did it and were able to forgive him knowing everything he had gone through. That THEY had gone through with him. Our time with Joel was a stark contrast to how we were saddled with Abby for a good portion of the game.

 

[Generic]

That depends on who you ask. Remember what I said, we spent hours and hours getting to know Joel. Our first interaction with him was him being with his daughter and then her dying in his arms minutes later. We were attached to this man. Even if you personally didn't agree with his actions at the tail end of the game, many people either did or at least understood why he did it and were able to forgive him knowing everything he had gone through. That THEY had gone through with him. Our time with Joel was a stark contrast to how we were saddled with Abby for a good portion of the game.

At the end of TLOU2 you also know everything about Abby as well.

 

[Varteras]

At the end of TLOU2 you also know everything about Abby as well.

Sure. But you aren't as attached to her because of how much of the game you spent playing someone you didn't like because of what they were trying to do to people you did like. People were attached to Joel and Ellie and understood those characters. Felt for those characters. And then watched as one was brutally killed right in front of the other. Human nature does not let us just swallow down so easily the argument of, "Just see her side". We already had a side and we helped the other hurt them badly. Emotional attachment isn't cold logic or some kind of point system. We were made to dislike Abby until pretty much the end of the game. Even later understanding her, that doesn't stop us from hating the fact that we helped her do what she did to people we liked.

 

[Generic]

Sure. But you aren't as attached to her because of how much of the game you spent playing someone you didn't like because of what they were trying to do to people you did like. People were attached to Joel and Ellie and understood those characters. Felt for those characters. And then watched as one was brutally killed right in front of the other. Human nature does not let us just swallow down so easily the argument of, "Just see her side". We already had a side and we helped the other hurt them badly. Emotional attachment isn't cold logic or some kind of point system. We were made to dislike Abby until pretty much the end of the game. Even later understanding her, that doesn't stop us from hating the fact that we helped her do what she did to people we liked.

Dude, these are fictional characters. You can totally just 'see the other side'.

 

[Varteras]

Dude, these are fictional characters. You can totally just 'see the other side'.

Video games draw out emotions. Movies draw out emotions. You may not be able to understand it personally, but people get attached to fictional characters. That much is obvious when you look at the fanbases of all kinds of works of fiction. You keep trying to eliminate human emotions and attachments because you think they don't apply but you're very wrong. Narrative driven games are intentionally made to get you emotional and attached.

 

[Neff]

As players, we felt for Joel because we watched him interacting with his daughter lovingly mere minutes before she was shot and died right in his arms.

A moment of cheap sentimentality doesn't negate the fact that Joel is a jerk from the outset and only gets worse. He leaves a 12 year-old alone in the house at night while working, and insists on abandoning the stranded family even though Sarah and Tommy want to stop for them. Even in death Sarah only becomes an excuse to wallow in self-pity and guilt, guilt he refuses to face and berates Ellie for his bitter feelings. Post-outbreak he joins the Hunters, the TLoU version of those mohawk-wearing assholes from Fist of the North Star. When Tommy rightly has enough of killing innocent people, he leaves in pursuit of something more noble- joining the Fireflies. Joel? He becomes an arms dealer, and his favourite arms dealing route is a huge security hole for the residents of the QZ he's fortunate enough to live in.

While there's a timeless allure to the tragic anti-hero, and it's a character which often plays well in dystopian works like TLoU, the game goes too far in miring its protagonist in shameful acts to the point where, well, he's just a cunt.

As I've said before, Abby's no angel either, but she's the one who takes the brunt of fan hostility, while good ol' Joel can do no wrong.

But you aren't as attached to her because of how much of the game you spent playing someone you didn't like because of what they were trying to do to people you did like. People were attached to Joel and Ellie and understood those characters.

You'd have a point if Joel and Ellie were saints and the WLF were pure evil, but that's far from the case.

 

[Ulysses 31]

LOL no, it's not a "stylistic issue". It's a direct logical negation regarding what was quite clearly presented as the geography of the paddock. That in and of itself -- the unambiguousness with which the contradiction is displayed in the movie -- is much "worse" than anything you're talking about re: the vaccine, or what the other guy says about Joel & Tommy not being suspicious enough to protect their identities.

You're right I was thinking of something else. I've rewatched the scene and I sorta agree with how inconsistent the geography of the paddock is. Even if I grant you that it's a serious plot hole(or even more serious like you claim), how does that mean my TLOU issues are null and void? Both Jurassic Park and TLOU can have plot issues.

Someone not understanding the characters over multiple posts about this game speaks for itself, so many of the critics are in no credible position to try to call out someone "acting out of character". Some of the other criticisms I have outright agreed with, like the game's pacing for one thing... but I'm not going round and round with you on this, because we have already done that quite a bit in past threads. So please revisit our previous arguments if you want. Other than that we will have to agree to very much disagree.

I have stated my reasons for why I think they're acting out of character.

If you can tell why it is in character for Tommy and Joel to give out their names so easily or let them selves get surround by armed strangers when they're apocalypse veterans then I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

An eye doesn't hold that much blood.




Kill Bill would have two major plot holes because Evil Driver lost both of her eyes in this movie.

The question mark indicates that she didn't die.

Writers research these things.

I know you're going to find anyway to spin this so I'm not going to even continue this. lol

With Daryl Hannah there was already a precedent established when we're told how she lost the eye and survived just fine and Kill Bill does exaggerate the violence(anime, crazy 88 fight) and doesn't present itself as seriously as TLOU(2) so that's easier to give a pass.

It still goes to the point that it seriously stretches believability that the surviving gang made it back safe and sound in their condition for a serious story driven game like TLOU2. Maybe this tale would make an interesting DLC.

 

[DForce]

With Daryl Hannah there was already a precedent established when we're told how she lost the eye and survived just fine and Kill Bill does exaggerate the violence(anime, crazy 88 fight) and doesn't present itself as seriously as TLOU(2) so that's easier to give a pass.

The usual spin. lol

Show a clip of Darly Hannah surviving the first time.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The usual spin. lol

Show a clip of Darly Hannah surviving the first time.

It's Pai Mei plucking out her eye in KB2 and the Bride does the same. So yeah, if she survived the first time then surviving the 2nd time is not a big stretch.

 

[DForce]

It's Pai Mei plucking out her eye in KB2 and the Bride does the same. So yeah, if she survived the first time then surviving the 2nd time is not a big stretch.

You said Tommy would need medical attention. This contradicts your previous point. According to you, losing an eye doesn't require immediate medical attention.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Could have sold 20M to be honest. It sold less than God of War, Uncharted and Spider-Man and the same as Horizon:ZD. This was Sony’s second biggest IP on the PS3.

 

[Ulysses 31]

You said Tommy would need medical attention. This contradicts your previous point. According to you, losing an eye doesn't require immediate medical attention.

Tommy doesn't get his eye plucked though, seems like the bullet grazes skin off around the edge of his eye which leads to all the blood loss. I would think that would need medical care asap to stop the bleeding and anti-infectives.

 

[DForce]

Tommy doesn't get his eye plucked though, seems like the bullet grazes skin off around the edge of his eye which leads to all the blood loss. I would think that would need medical care asap to stop the bleeding and anti-infectant.

There's blood coming from Elle Driver's eye in both scenes. It's literally running down her shirt.

But yes, the usual spin. It works in other films but in TLOU, it's unbelievable. And when two movies/games are similar, you say, "Well, TLOU takes itself more seriously" as a copout.

If I say, Elle Driver was in the middle of nowhere with blood gushing down her face, along with a venomous snake roaming the trailer that her chances of survival would be slim (according to you) but you think it's believable.

But again, I'm not going to waste any more time because you will spin everything that comes your way. The fact is, getting shot or having it plucked out doesn't require "a hospital" or modern medical science. Humans used prostatic eyes over 2000 years ago.

 

[EruditeHobo]

I have stated my reasons for why I think they're acting out of character.

Yeah, they're bad reasons. You disagree, which is fine... so, we agree to disagree.

If you can tell why it is in character for Tommy and Joel to give out their names so easily or let them selves get surround by armed strangers when they're apocalypse veterans then I'd be interested in reading it.

I've tried explaining lots of things to you about this game, but it didn't really penetrate any of the other times, for the most part... so it kind of ends up being a waste of my time, no offense.

We can civilly agree to disagree, no worries on my end. And I appreciate your engaging in good faith, because as much as I disagree with you it's very clear you're not a troll and do engage with people. I can't confidently say the same about many of the other TLOU2 story/narrative critics on this board.

 

[Ulysses 31]

There's blood coming from Elle Driver's eye in both scenes. It's literally running down her shirt.

But yes, the usual spin. It works in other films but in TLOU, it's unbelievable. And when two movies/games are similar, you say, "Well, TLOU takes itself more seriously" as a copout.

You see fountains of blood in the movie, so yeah it's easier to give a pass for the wounds people survive in KB movies than in TLOU.

If I say, Elle Driver was in the middle of nowhere with blood gushing down her face, along with a venomous snake roaming the trailer that her chances of survival would be slim (according to you) but you think it's believable.

Yes I would say the odds are very against her. The movie doesn't say she survived or died so I find it curious you assume she survived in your example. But lets say the movie did say she survived with just text, I would find it hard to believe without any further details. But since she's out of the picture from then on it's not really an issue to get hung up on.

But again, I'm not going to waste any more time because you will spin everything that comes your way. The fact is, getting shot or having it plucked out doesn't require "a hospital" or modern medical science. Humans used prostatic eyes over 2000 years ago.

You seem to ignore the apocalyptic setting which adds further danger to the group. Even if the gunshot wound itself is not fatal without any treatment and never gets infected, their injuries still puts them at great risk for the huge distance they must travel to get home.

 

[Varteras]

A moment of cheap sentimentality doesn't negate the fact that Joel is a jerk from the outset and only gets worse. He leaves a 12 year-old alone in the house at night while working, and insists on abandoning the stranded family even though Sarah and Tommy want to stop for them. Even in death Sarah only becomes an excuse to wallow in self-pity and guilt, guilt he refuses to face and blames Ellie for his bitter feelings. Post-outbreak he joins the Hunters, the TLoU version of those mohawk-wearing assholes from Fist of the North Star. When Tommy rightly has enough of killing innocent people, he leaves in pursuit of something more noble- joining the Fireflies. Joel? He becomes an arms dealer, and his favourite arms dealing route is a huge security hole for the residents of the QZ he's fortunate enough to live in.

While there's a timeless allure to the tragic anti-hero, often in dystopian works like TLoU, it goes too far in miring its protagonist in shameful acts to the point where, well, he's just a cunt.

As I've said before, Abby's no angel either, but she's the one who takes the brunt of fan hostility, while good ol' Joel can do no wrong.



You'd have a point if Joel and Ellie were saints and the WLF were pure evil, but that's far from the case.

Yet here we are. With many people who loved Joel and Ellie and disliked Abby. Why? Because logic and reason go out the window when you were given reasons to like and get attached to two characters over the course of many hours and then get stuck with an unlikable character like Abby who sought to harm or kill two people many fans really liked. You keep overlooking the obvious. That human emotional attachment and investment is difficult to quantify and cannot be underestimated.

I'm not saying Naughty Dog did it wrong. On the contrary, they very much succeeded in getting significant responses out of people. But you're trying to boil down emotional attachments to some kind of logical point system and it doesn't work that way. Joel was solidified among many when his daughter died in his arms after people watched the two of them interacting together and further in the end when he made a fateful decision to save Ellie. The world Joel lived in was super cruel and he had to make hard choices for his own survival and then later the survival of someone he grew to love. The things he did were to ensure he and Ellie's continued existence. Abby didn't go after Joel out of necessity but vengeance over an act that we know was out of a desire to protect. We can understand her reasons but not like it because of what we know and who it will hurt.

You can sit there all day and go, "But Joel did this and this and Abby had reasons for that and that". The people who didn't like it don't care. You're not going to be able to boil it down for them into a simple logical formula. If they loved Joel and Ellie it doesn't matter what numbers you crunch or comparisons you make. And that should be obvious by now with the discussions that still go on two years later. And it will never stop and you will never convince anyone otherwise because they liked Joel and Ellie, disliked Abby, and resented being forced to play as her to harm them. Just like Kratos absolutely does not deserve a good life based on pure logic because of all the harm he's done. Reasons be damned for losing his shit. But here people are. Loving Kratos and the dynamic he has with his son and eagerly wanting things to progress with them.

 

[Amiga]

The Days Gone directors debunked that in interviews they did with David Jaffe. One of them left 6 days after releasing Days Gone and the other one left many months later. They said Bend Studio killed Days Gone 2 internally before pitching it to Sony. Sony didn't kill DG2 because they never got that pitch. It was one of the bosses they have inside Bend (the studio manager) who blocked the pitch from being sent to Sony.

The pitch that later Bend sent to Sony was a new IP and it got greenlighted. Both directors only had good words for Sony management, said they always were very supportive with their creative vision, allowed them to do all they wanted and gave them all the support they needed, and were supported even with the mixes reviews they had.

Their reason to leave were more related with disagreeing and having a bad relationship with the boss they both had inside Bend Studio (the studio manager), not with Sony.

They also debunked any bad relationship between Bend and Naughty Dog: both studios helped each other during over a decade when one of the studios needs help because has a ton of work and the other one has some free people.

That's what smart people who want a stable carrier would say. But the cat was out of the bag. several of their later tweets confirm the original story.

 

[DinoD]

Sure. But you aren't as attached to her because of how much of the game you spent playing someone you didn't like because of what they were trying to do to people you did like. People were attached to Joel and Ellie and understood those characters. Felt for those characters. And then watched as one was brutally killed right in front of the other. Human nature does not let us just swallow down so easily the argument of, "Just see her side". We already had a side and we helped the other hurt them badly. Emotional attachment isn't cold logic or some kind of point system. We were made to dislike Abby until pretty much the end of the game. Even later understanding her, that doesn't stop us from hating the fact that we helped her do what she did to people we liked.

I can completely relate to this.

While I think the game was an amazing experience. IMO The script is far more suited for the movie or series. I also struggled hard playing Abby, to the point of almost giving up on the game.

edited: added "almost"

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

Such a great game! Deserves all these sales and more.

 

[zkorejo]

Factions next year. Okay I'm out until then.

 

[Neff]

You keep overlooking the obvious.

That there are fans of Joel and detractors of Abby is painfully obvious. TLoU2's only problem is the absurdity of the double standard regarding their respective popularity and unpopularity, and I don't think 'a bad thing happened to Joel first' adequately explains it. And nor do ham-fisted mawkish home truth scenes or cute moments with giraffes. If you came away from TLoU1 invested in Joel, it's because you were simply willing to overlook what a massive dickbag he clearly was, regardless of the time you spent with him. TLoU2 is more effective at executing its 'now you're the bad guy and you're going to like her and her vigilante pals' gimmick than you're giving credit, and there are more reasons to be attached to Abby than Joel after you've been in both pairs of shoes.

The people who didn't like it don't care.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. But it would be nice if people could be more honest, fair, and consistent when categorising their villains.

 

[Varteras]

That there are fans of Joel and detractors of Abby is painfully obvious. TLoU2's only problem is the absurdity of the double standard regarding their respective popularity and unpopularity, and I don't think 'a bad thing happened to Joel first' adequately explains it. And nor do ham-fisted mawkish home truth scenes or cute moments with giraffes. If you came away from TLoU1 invested in Joel, it's because you were simply willing to overlook what a massive dickbag he clearly was, regardless of the time you spent with him. TLoU2 is more effective at executing its 'now you're the bad guy and you're going to like her and her vigilante pals' gimmick than you're giving credit, and there are more reasons to be attached to Abby than Joel after you've been in both pairs of shoes.



I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. But it would be nice if people could be more honest, fair, and consistent when categorising their villains.

I'll respectfully agree to disagree with your points. But to your last point, I will say that, yes. It would be nice if people wouldn't always just have kneejerk reactions to things from start to finish and actually internalized things, thought them through, and came to more sound conclusions.

 

[kyliethicc]

The passionate debate this game continues to create is great. Pretty unique and quite telling.

For a risky work of art to get the most awards of all time, 10+ million sold in under 2 years, 93 metacritic, etc..

Druckmann said he just hoped it would sell enough so they could make another one. And it did that and more.

Hope we get Part 3 on PS5 by like 2027.

 

[John Wick]

It might seem common reason that something selling 10 million must be an instant success, but companies work in a different way.

If Sony invest 300 million on a game, expecting the overall revenue to be 900 million, they don't want that to take 5 years to be accomplished. They need cash flow, and usually these high risk projecta have a sales target and a timeline to reach that. And much like Jim said in the past, games are getting increasingly expensive and riskier to make. Is it that crazy to think that Sony might not be that happy with these sales to begin with, and expected for better numbers to the followup to tgeir best review game of all time?

I mean, we all saw time and time again how some companies have unreasonable expectation with their games, like Square with Tomb Raider, CD Project with Cyberpunk, etc. Its really hard to think that Sony had similar aspirations with TLOU 2?

This is getting hilarious. No companies don't work in a different way. The more the game sells the more Sony make money off it. 10+ million is a huge amount for Sony. Sales will continue to grow with a PS5 and PC versions and with the remaster of the first one.
Stop plucking numbers from thin air. This isn't a 300 million game. It isn't GTA5. It was developed for one platform.
What unrealistic expectations did CDPR have with Cyberpunk? Game still sold well but was a buggy broken mess. They have improved it and sales have increased especially on PS platforms

 

[Boss Mog]

Can be said for every game ever.

Yeah but in this case it's more relevant because apart from preorders and the launch period the game didn't sell that well until it had big sales for $30 and $20. I actually managed to score a new copy for $10 myself. My local brick and mortar stores always had huge walls of them until the game started going deep on sale; meanwhile Ghost of Tsushima was frequently out of stock during that same period. Ghost of Tsushima was up to 8M units sold back in January. I wouldn't be surprised if it had hit 10M now with the PS5 version. And granted maybe Sony didn't print as many GoT as TLOU2 since it was a new franchise but I just found that in store situation pretty telling. A lot of fans didn't like the story or direction of TLOU2 pushing certain ideologies; the leaks definitely hurt sales. I know many people including myself who didn't want to pay full price for it when it was a game we'd all been waiting for.

 

[Hypereides]

Honestly 10 mil. doesn't sound very good or impressive. Especially, for a game of the caliber and magnitude of TLOU2 which probably had a ridiculously high AAA budget. TLOU in contrast supposedly managed to sell through around 44 mil. copies if gamstat's stats (archive link) are to be believed. Here are gamstat's archive of TLOU2 2021 stats in comparison.

It might seem like a respectable and "big number" in the eyes of the average gamer, but it probably didn't meet Neil's and Co. expectations. The age of when such figures for an AAA game was considered a big achievement or a great success have long since been over.

 

[Bartski]

very disappointed by a total lack of coverage from youtube's finest, most diligent commentators on all things cuckmann

 

[Topher]

Honestly 10 mil. doesn't sound very good or impressive. Especially, for a game of the caliber and magnitude of TLOU2 which probably had a ridiculously high AAA budget. TLOU in contrast supposedly managed to sell through around 44 mil. copies if gamstat's stats (archive link) are to be believed. Here are gamstat's archive of TLOU2 2021 stats in comparison.

It might seem like a respectable and "big number" in the eyes of the average gamer, but it probably didn't meet Neil's and Co. expectations. The age of when such figures for an AAA game was considered a big achievement or a great success have long since been over.

TLOU has not sold 44 million. Not even close. The last official numbers were 17 million as of 2018. The game was estimated to have sold 20 million by the end of 2019 by analysts. Also, TLOU benefitted by being bundled in PS4s on numerous occasions. Regardless, 10 million sold in under 2 years is impressive. I don't get this narrative that it is somehow not.

 

[Thirty7ven]

You're comparing tlous to the most popular marvel character ever, and also your trying to compare god of war which came out 2 years earlier, was bundled profusely , was free when purchasing ps5's and its online service etc

If you want to fairly compare it measure out the same amount of time it took to reach dales goals in the same span as it launched.

Also i see alot of opinions on why it failed, show me factual evidence that it did please

I didn’t read the rest, just wanna say that Sony doesn’t ps+ copies as sold.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

I didn’t read the rest, just wanna say that Sony doesn’t ps+ copies as sold.

What about the countless bundles gow and tlou got when compared to tlou p2 then

 

[Business]

TLOU has not sold 44 million. Not even close. The last official numbers were 17 million as of 2018. The game was estimated to have sold 20 million by the end of 2019 by analysts. Also, TLOU benefitted by being bundled in PS4s on numerous occasions. Regardless, 10 million sold in under 2 years is impressive. I don't get this narrative that it is somehow not.

10 million on itself is really good there's no arguing this. The point is the sequel should do somehow better numbers than the original to be considered at least an equal hit. The original was a new franchise, the sequel comes riding on top of all the goodwill, fanbase, hype and brand recognition the first The Last of Us already created, if it doesn't sell better (and also from a business pov it costed much more to produce), it's not as big of a success. Having said that I have no clue how sales of Part II are tracking compared to the original, what has been bundled and what not or the average sale price per unit of both games, I'm just trying to explain 'the narrative'. My opinion is Part II damaged the brand, no matter how you slice it a lot of people weren't happy with the direction the story took. I think the effect will be seen in the sales of a possible Part III more than in Part II numbers. I hope the upcoming multiplayer's 'story mode' and the game itself are good and Part III can take it from there because personally I'm a fan of the game's universe and a huge Factions fan.

 

[Aaron Olive]

I have wild on nose guess that this new Factions project will be like Destiny/Division/Borderlands in style, While maintaining a versus element from its predecessor.

 

[Topher]

10 million on itself is really good there's no arguing this. The point is the sequel should do somehow better numbers than the original to be considered at least an equal hit. The original was a new franchise, the sequel comes riding on top of all the goodwill, fanbase, hype and brand recognition the first The Last of Us already created, if it doesn't sell better (and also from a business pov it costed much more to produce), it's not as big of a success. Having said that I have no clue how sales of Part II are tracking compared to the original, what has been bundled and what not or the average sale price per unit of both games, I'm just trying to explain 'the narrative'. My opinion is Part II damaged the brand, no matter how you slice it a lot of people weren't happy with the direction the story took. I think the effect will be seen in the sales of a possible Part III more than in Part II numbers. I hope the upcoming multiplayer's 'story mode' and the game itself are good and Part III can take it from there because personally I'm a fan of the game's universe and a huge Factions fan.

Yes, but I also think the "narrative" that 10 million isn't impressive comes from a desire to see the game fail from those who dislike it. As far as comparing it to TLOU, yeah there are a lot of factors there. I think TLOU getting a remaster in the first year after PS4's release when there were not a lot of new games out and zero backwards compatibility was instrumental in boosting its numbers. The game effectively had two releases on two different platforms as 7 million units were sold on PS3 alone. The remaster sold another million in one month on PS4. But TLOU 2 isn't done selling. It sold 4 million right off the bat and two years later we are at 10 million. If it gets a remaster like the first one then we will see another boost in its sales.

As far as the brand being damaged, I don't think so. As I said earlier in this thread, I think the detractors are an extremely loud minority and this is more political than anything else. Either way, as P. T. Barnum said "there is no such thing as bad publicity".

 

[Anos Voldigoad]

Based on the gameplay in The Last of Us 2 I see Factions being big. How big do I think it can be? I think it can threaten Fortnite, Apex and Warzone kind of big if it's done right. Last of Us 2 has an excellent gameplay loop. But it comes down to the execution, which I suspect will be high quality.

I shiver to the thought if Bungie somehow has provided some live services expertise into the Factions 2 mix. If this is the reason why it is delayed to next year and why Playstation invested in Bungie. Makes me glad that i’m not on the green rats team, never will be. PS5 & future PS consoles is the only platform that igaf for

 

[Neff]

My opinion is Part II damaged the brand

Negative word of mouth tainted launch momentum and sales, there's no doubt about that. And the plot leak was possibly even more damaging. But despite those setbacks, it's sold very well and continues to.

I think the effect will be seen in the sales of a possible Part III more than in Part II numbers.

I think part III will struggle to placate spurned fans of part I unless it's a 100% slam dunk with critics and players alike.

 

[Aure]

Glad i'm not part of these 10 million units.

 

[EruditeHobo]

I think part III will struggle to placate spurned fans of part I unless it's a 100% slam dunk with critics and players alike.

We can only hope they wouldn't even try to placate people with these kinds of opinions, honestly. Why compromise on their vision at this point? There's no financial or creative reason; their sequel that the vocal minority hated is a clear financial success and will be a greater one over more time, and by all accounts they told a bold, personal, somewhat uncompromising story that they wanted to tell.

There's nothing controversial about the idea that a really bold, brutal game like TLOU2 would turn some people off who were just looking for "The Continuing Stories of Joel & Ellie". This is the kind of thing that is literally factored into the design and documentation stage of a development process... and having been in the industry and part of these design stages of production, them turning some people off with the game was not a surprise to anyone worked on TLOU2. Not in the slightest.

If there is a third it should continue in that vein, if anything.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Glad i'm not part of these 10 million units.

I'm buying one to give to a friend just for this comment. So your actions have directly contributed to another sale. So in a way, you are now part of the 10+ million!

Have a great weekend.

 

[remember_spinal]

Yes, but I also think the "narrative" that 10 million isn't impressive comes from a desire to see the game fail from those who dislike it. As far as comparing it to TLOU, yeah there are a lot of factors there. I think TLOU getting a remaster in the first year after PS4's release when there were not a lot of new games out and zero backwards compatibility was instrumental in boosting its numbers. The game effectively had two releases on two different platforms as 7 million units were sold on PS3 alone. The remaster sold another million in one month on PS4. But TLOU 2 isn't done selling. It sold 4 million right off the bat and two years later we are at 10 million. If it gets a remaster like the first one then we will see another boost in its sales.

As far as the brand being damaged, I don't think so. As I said earlier in this thread, I think the detractors are an extremely loud minority and this is more political than anything else. Either way, as P. T. Barnum said "there is no such thing as bad publicity".

TLOU was also bundled, i dont think TLOU2 got any bundles, especially since it came out right before the PS5.

By the time the tv show comes out and they release the ps5 version it will do 20 million, part one might close in on 30 million by then

 

[Aure]

I'm buying one to give to a friend just for this comment. So your actions have directly contributed to another sale. So in a way, you are now part of the 10+ million!

Have a great weekend.

Not my money, so i'm still good and not part of it, but excellent try though.
Thank you, im having amazing weekend so far.
Cheers.

 

[Topher]

TLOU was also bundled, i dont think TLOU2 got any bundles, especially since it came out right before the PS5.

By the time the tv show comes out and they release the ps5 version it will do 20 million, part one might close in on 30 million by then

Think there was a limited edition PS4 Pro bundle, but nothing like all the bundles TLOU 1 received.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Not my money, so i'm still good and not part of it, but excellent try though.
Thank you, im having amazing weekend so far.
Cheers.

One more sale, thanks to you.

Cheers.

 

[Aure]

One more sale, thanks to you.

Cheers.

By all means, keep going. Not my money.
Cheers.

 

[EruditeHobo]

By all means, keep going. Not my money.
Cheers.

Great!

So your ONLY problem and the point of pride that you aren't part of the 10 million, as you say, is that it wasn't your money specifically used to make this game a success? There's no other reason?

Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Woggleman]

They shouldn't even try to placate spurned fans because the kind of people who are still mad about it never forgive and when artists pander without their hearts being in it you can tell. They should just stay true to their vision and people like it or they don't.

 

[Kerotan]

Sure. But you aren't as attached to her because of how much of the game you spent playing someone you didn't like because of what they were trying to do to people you did like. People were attached to Joel and Ellie and understood those characters. Felt for those characters. And then watched as one was brutally killed right in front of the other. Human nature does not let us just swallow down so easily the argument of, "Just see her side". We already had a side and we helped the other hurt them badly. Emotional attachment isn't cold logic or some kind of point system. We were made to dislike Abby until pretty much the end of the game. Even later understanding her, that doesn't stop us from hating the fact that we helped her do what she did to people we liked.

If there's a part 3 lots of us will be attached to Abby from the start.

The series was never about just 2 people. Even the first game we didn't even know Ellie for the first few hours and when we did I found her annoying until about the spring chapter where you meet Tommy again. Then I started to like her.

I cared for more about Tess for example for the first half.

 

[Woggleman]

I was attached to Joel in the first game but I knew what kind of person he was and that one day his deeds would come back to haunt him. It is ironic that the one time he acted violently to save another person's life is what did him in. People act like Joel is some kind of superhero when he is a violent man in a violent world who has a good and bad side. I see a lot of people saying they are team Ellie or team Abby when it is much more nuanced than that. Almost everybody in this world has good and evil in them.