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[Woodchipper]

I'm playing the finale and now i understand why people talked about characters doing moronic chooices...

God ellie is such a bitch in this game, i was very sad when

Spoiler

abby didn't killed her.

 

[JimiNutz]

Ok. After finishing the game on Saturday & letting it sit for a couple of days, I've noticed a couple of things. Firstly, it keeps creeping into my head, like it made an impression on me & I didn't even realise. Second, I think I misunderstood the main themes, or ideas, that it was trying to get across.

Spoiler: Musings on the whole story

I can't help thinking that guilt is the main driving force of the whole story. Both Ellie & Abby doing things because they feel guilty & want to make amends somehow.

Thinking again about the flashbacks with Joel & Ellie, I'm struck with the idea of her behaving like an annoying teenager who tells their parent "I hate you! You don't understand anything! I know better!" While the parent just tries not to make things even worse. I admit that during the scenes where Ellie attacks Joel verbally, I wanted him to defend himself in a more animated fashion. But now I can't help looking at Joel as a dad, who just wants to protect his daughter & tell her that he loves her. Because he did defend himself, right at the end when he told Ellie he would do it all again. He both defended his actions & told her how much he loves her at the same time. Quietly. In a mature way, like a responsible parent.

So now I'm looking at Ellie's quest for revenge & thinking that she was driven by guilt. She felt guilty because she gave Joel such a hard time for loving & protecting her, only to then lose him forever, before the reconciliation that was coming, based on their last conversation. That moves me, I have to say.

Abby mirrors Ellie in some ways. I'm now thinking that she was driven to help Yara & Lev because she felt guilty for having tortured Joel in the way she did. Killing him slowly, painfully & in (for him) an embarrassing fashion. I think the memory of those actions tormented her & drove her need to do something good & worthwhile. Funnily enough, she then almost becomes what Joel was in part 1. She dedicates herself to protecting a child against all odds.

We see her running down that corridor in the Salt Lake City hospital multiple times. First she finds her dad, dead. This drives her to get revenge & kill Joel. But then later, she finds herself running back down the same corridor in her nightmares. She finds Yara & Lev. She realises that killing Joel didn't change anything for the better. It didn't bring her dad back. She does everything in her power to protect Yara & Lev. Only then does she run down the corridor to find her dad, turning to her with a smile.

I dunno for sure. These are the thoughts that I've been stuck with since finishing the game. It's definitely made an impression on me & I'm starting to think I was too harsh in my criticisms.

It's been interesting reading your impressions in this thread as it definitely seems like over time your view on the game has really changed and improved. Credit to you for recognising and acknowledging this as some people are so stubborn and set in their view that they are never willing to compromise or change their initial opinion in any way.

I think I agree with your analysis and to be honest, although I really enjoyed the gameplay on my first playthrough, I was initially a little bit disappointed in the story. I too have been thinking about it in different ways now that I've finished my first playthrough and my opinion has softened on it also.

It's certainly not a perfectly told story and I understand the criticisms about pacing and some of the actual writing itself, but it's an extraordinarily ambitious story for a game and has a lot of nuance and depth.

 

[shubik]

Ok. After finishing the game on Saturday & letting it sit for a couple of days, I've noticed a couple of things. Firstly, it keeps creeping into my head, like it made an impression on me & I didn't even realise. Second, I think I misunderstood the main themes, or ideas, that it was trying to get across.

Spoiler: Musings on the whole story

I can't help thinking that guilt is the main driving force of the whole story. Both Ellie & Abby doing things because they feel guilty & want to make amends somehow.

Thinking again about the flashbacks with Joel & Ellie, I'm struck with the idea of her behaving like an annoying teenager who tells their parent "I hate you! You don't understand anything! I know better!" While the parent just tries not to make things even worse. I admit that during the scenes where Ellie attacks Joel verbally, I wanted him to defend himself in a more animated fashion. But now I can't help looking at Joel as a dad, who just wants to protect his daughter & tell her that he loves her. Because he did defend himself, right at the end when he told Ellie he would do it all again. He both defended his actions & told her how much he loves her at the same time. Quietly. In a mature way, like a responsible parent.

So now I'm looking at Ellie's quest for revenge & thinking that she was driven by guilt. She felt guilty because she gave Joel such a hard time for loving & protecting her, only to then lose him forever, before the reconciliation that was coming, based on their last conversation. That moves me, I have to say.

Abby mirrors Ellie in some ways. I'm now thinking that she was driven to help Yara & Lev because she felt guilty for having tortured Joel in the way she did. Killing him slowly, painfully & in (for him) an embarrassing fashion. I think the memory of those actions tormented her & drove her need to do something good & worthwhile. Funnily enough, she then almost becomes what Joel was in part 1. She dedicates herself to protecting a child against all odds.

We see her running down that corridor in the Salt Lake City hospital multiple times. First she finds her dad, dead. This drives her to get revenge & kill Joel. But then later, she finds herself running back down the same corridor in her nightmares. She finds Yara & Lev. She realises that killing Joel didn't change anything for the better. It didn't bring her dad back. She does everything in her power to protect Yara & Lev. Only then does she run down the corridor to find her dad, turning to her with a smile.

I dunno for sure. These are the thoughts that I've been stuck with since finishing the game. It's definitely made an impression on me & I'm starting to think I was too harsh in my criticisms.

I think you are spot on. It´s guilt mixed with PTSD (at least Ellie). I also believe that Abby is so muscular because losing yourself in sport was her way of coping with the loss. The same could be said about Ellies haircut after everything is done. I´m sure it should represent a cut and a fresh new start.

I finished the game last week and just like you I feel like the story impressed me on several levels.

 

[Steve.1981]

I almost feel like I got played, in a way. Like maybe there are certain things the writers would've expected.

I'm a big fan of part 1 & think Joel was right in the end.

Spoiler

Writers - "Oh your immediate reaction is that we treated Joel badly in part 2? We're shocked!"

"Oh you really liked the story of Abby & Lev though? Imagine that"

Maybe I'm just too slow to notice these things.

 

[G-Bus]

Played for an hour or two last night. Done pretty good staying away from spoilers. Didn't care much for the first one so that's helped here.

I did watch a recap on YouTube so I know what's going on.

I will say though, Joel's ones evil bastard. Holy crap.

 

[Neff]

I can't help thinking that guilt is the main driving force of the whole story.

It pretty much is. The point where Ellie realises this, she lets Abby go, compounded by the acknowledgement that Abby is essentially Joel in many ways.

I will say though, Joel's ones evil bastard. Holy crap.

Exactly. People always seem to forget or wilfully ignore the super-fucked up things that 'beloved Joel' has done.

 

[DragoonKain]

Just got up to the part where you

Spoiler

take over as Abby, and yeah, it hurt the gameplay just as much as I thought. I immediately concur with some of the reviewers who said it stifles the pacing significantly. You’re building building and progressing and it’s like boom back to square one. Not to mention I hate the character and I know I still am going to after the end of her parts. I just have zero interest in playing as her, I’m honestly contemplating stopping playing,

And also, could they have made her arms any bigger? They are huge for Kratos let alone some random chick. It’s so over the top, I didn’t know they still were producing HGH during this time.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

It pretty much is. The point where Ellie realises this, she lets Abby go, compounded by the acknowledgement that Abby is essentially Joel in many ways.



Exactly. People always seem to forget or wilfully ignore the super-fucked up things that 'beloved Joel' has done.

Like what, in your opinion?

 

[slade]

I'm around 16 hrs into the game and just got to

Spoiler

Abby's part

. I can see the complaints about the story because it has been 100% predictable so far. Gameplay is really good though and I can't wait to see if there are any surprises in the story towards the end. At this point though, I'm not expecting many characters to make it to the end.

 

[Woggleman]

This game sticks with you. I was doing my grocery shopping today and kept thinking about it. Not perfect hence the 9/10 but overall a very good experience and I look forward to a NG plus playthrough.

 

[Keihart]

Well it would look absolutely amazing, no doubt. People who shit on ray-tracing are those who never experienced it in real time playing a game. It's a shame. I hope that they can add some ray-tracing in PS5 version, especially when it comes to contact shadows. Take this screenshot for example. That little bench next to the bed looks like it's floating.

that shit it's probably cooked lighting already, it just doesn't have shitty AO that surrounds every object. You can see soft shadows under it.

 

[Steve.1981]

The story is messy, too obviously manipulative & a bit too coincidental at times. But I've came around on it to be honest. I can see what they were at least trying to do with the characters. I like some of the ideas the more I think about them.

It still doesn't touch part 1, for me. Again, I think the execution was the problem with a lot of it. I would recommend that people just give it a go with an open mind. In the end, it's not this groundbreaking masterpiece that critic reviews portray, but it's not the dumpster fire abomination that YouTubers & Redditors try to show you either.

It's worth experiencing the whole thing for yourself.

 

[Keihart]

Day 3 with Abby, it's been hard to let go of the controller.
I like all the foreshadowing and how the game builds tension and misdirection or even makes you relax through game play sections. The plot points are usually predictable but because of it i think they don't feel cheap, the time you spend playing and developing the characters between the dramatic punctuation of the cutscenes gives a lot of perspective in what it's going on.
The really took to heart trying to make the combat not feel disconnected from the plot, you killing like machine it's part of the characters.

I think i'll just leave it there, i think i might be closing to the final third of the game.

 

[Hostile_18]

I havent finished yet but honestly what is Owen doing with his life going for these women its like the script thinks their beautiful.

Geralt had Trish or Yennifer.
Nathan had Elena or Chloe.
Owen has Abby or Mel

 

[ToadMan]

I havent finished yet but honestly what is Owen doing with his life going for these women its like the script thinks their beautiful.

Geralt had Trish or Yennifer.
Nathan had Elena or Chloe.
Owen has Abby or Mel

This game portrays a post apocalyptic world. There's not easy access to clothes and makeup and there's not an internet full of porn and fakery to compare with.

On top of that there's no social security, no food factories and no easy retirements. Kids are necessary to look after the parents when they're too old to support themselves. As long as there's enough food, having more kids is necessary, and that means banging anyone who is available for the purpose.

It's like a return to the Middle Ages - sexy is someone who is child birthing age, healthy and within range of dick, and that's the same for men and women.

 

[nowhat]

its like the script thinks their beautiful

Or maybe Tinder options are limited, what with the apocalypse and all.

 

[Keihart]

I havent finished yet but honestly what is Owen doing with his life going for these women its like the script thinks their beautiful.

Geralt had Trish or Yennifer.
Nathan had Elena or Chloe.
Owen has Abby or Mel

With how they portray their relationship it's hard to question it, Abby looked pretty alright before getting all "revenge it's my life goal and i'm gonna sleep next to the gym" phase and she was basically Owen's highschool sweatheart, their feelings seem to just have gotten on pause because life and grudges at the end.

 

[ToadMan]

Yeah abby is the best character in the game for me, mostly because the other characters are boring or shitty.
Not that i was expecting great or memorable secondary characters after the first game...

I'm wondering about the multiplayer now.. Perhaps this war of Team Ellie vs Team Abbie will continue there too...

Press F to revenge kill lol

 

[ToadMan]

Just got up to the part where you

Spoiler

take over as Abby, and yeah, it hurt the gameplay just as much as I thought. I immediately concur with some of the reviewers who said it stifles the pacing significantly. You’re building building and progressing and it’s like boom back to square one. Not to mention I hate the character and I know I still am going to after the end of her parts. I just have zero interest in playing as her, I’m honestly contemplating stopping playing,

And also, could they have made her arms any bigger? They are huge for Kratos let alone some random chick. It’s so over the top, I didn’t know they still were producing HGH during this time.

Yeah stop playing... there's not gonna be anything to change your mind in the rest of the game if you're stuck with this kind of mindset.

 

[Hostile_18]

This game portrays a post apocalyptic world. There's not easy access to clothes and makeup and there's not an internet full of porn and fakery to compare with.

On top of that there's no social security, no food factories and no easy retirements. Kids are necessary to look after the parents when they're too old to support themselves. As long as there's enough food, having more kids is necessary, and that means banging anyone who is available for the purpose.

It's like a return to the Middle Ages - sexy is someone who is child birthing age, healthy and within range of dick, and that's the same for men and women.

Id buy into all that if everyone else around the Wolf base wasnt better looking than them. In real life they would both be a 2/10 at best (though I do like Abby as a person).

 

[Keihart]

BTW, i was thinking a little about it and Jacksonville it's basically paradise for this people. You have either cults, military like camps or people running away from either one of this outside of Jacksonville.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm wondering about the multiplayer now.. Perhaps this war of Team Ellie vs Team Abbie will continue there too...

Press F to revenge kill lol

Never played the multy in the original so i don't know what to expect.

 

[Hostile_18]

Never played the multy in the original so i don't know what to expect.

I'm really hoping for horde style mode, similar to what Uncharted 4 has.

 

[Geki-D]

I'm wondering about the multiplayer now.. Perhaps this war of Team Ellie vs Team Abbie will continue there too...

I'm guessing it'll be WLF Vs. Scars.

 

[evanft]

I just got jumped by four people while I was at a workbench in a random Seattle apartment. I used a couple of them as a shield while I shot the others in the face. It was so fucking intense.

I also just got introduced to the stalkers. How do people deal with them?

 

[nowhat]

I also just got introduced to the stalkers. How do people deal with them?

Spoiler

you kill them

But yeah, stalkers are much more formidable (and frequent) this time around. As you can't "listen" to them, make sure you have your bases covered. Like, if there's an opening behind you, place a trip mine there (and don't be too close to it, naturally).

 

[evanft]

Spoiler

you kill them

But yeah, stalkers are much more formidable (and frequent) this time around. As you can't "listen" to them, make sure you have your bases covered. Like, if there's an opening behind you, place a trip mine there (and don't be too close to it, naturally).

Lol, yeah I pretty much try to take out as many as I can smartly then just go aggro once they rush me.

 

[Shin]

I found this interesting and worth talking about (not sure if posted already), it's great to see their creativity at work.

 

[nowhat]

I found this interesting and worth talking about (not sure if posted already), it's great to see their creativity at work.

Super interesting, thanks for posting.

I have to wonder though. The game is set, what, 25-ish years after the apocalypse? Would that be enough time for all of the asphalt roads to be covered in grass? I honestly have no idea, just seems like it would hold for longer.

 

[Alebrije]

Super interesting, thanks for posting.

I have to wonder though. The game is set, what, 25-ish years after the apocalypse? Would that be enough time for all of the asphalt roads to be covered in grass? I honestly have no idea, just seems like it would hold for longer.

That depends of the rain season and vegetation but 20-25 years give time to nature to reproduce and cover cities specially talking about grass...it just needs 1- 2 years to cover a lot of areas...moss grows on few months...so I donot see TLOU2 exagerated this ...its factible. Even big trees can grow on 20 years..

 

[Vaelka]

I don't understand how anyone can like Ellie or find her relationship with Dina believable.
I get that the intent wasn't necessarily for us to like Ellie, but a lot of people defending the game do.

What the hell is there to like about her lol? She's seriously one of the least likeable characters in recent memory, there are fucked up cartoony psycho villains that are more likeable than her.
I'd even say that Joffrey in GoT is more likeable, at least he has a fucking personality.
Even Arya after she left Bravos and I couldn't stand her, I thought that they ruined her character completely and she still had more personality than Ellie. I never thought I'd say that about anyone, Arya was the worst after that.

This game portrays a post apocalyptic world. There's not easy access to clothes and makeup and there's not an internet full of porn and fakery to compare with.

On top of that there's no social security, no food factories and no easy retirements. Kids are necessary to look after the parents when they're too old to support themselves. As long as there's enough food, having more kids is necessary, and that means banging anyone who is available for the purpose.

It's like a return to the Middle Ages - sexy is someone who is child birthing age, healthy and within range of dick, and that's the same for men and women.

Then why does Oween have styled hair? That dude wears hair gel lol.
They clearly wanted to make him look attractive so they dolled him up.

Makeup did exist in many cultures historically too, it'd probably exist in a world like this too tbh. It's not a recent invention and even men used to wear it.
Makeup dates even way back before the ancient times.
Even in a post apocalyptic world people would still have vanity and our ancestors managed to create and wear this stuff with even less access and knowledge about these things xD.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

This is a really good review

 

[Woggleman]

That is a really good review. I am not saying anybody should like this game and they have the right to their opinion but if you want to understand why it has resonated with many people as well watch that video. Also the video does have spoilers and big ones so proceed with caution if you don't know the story yet.

 

[Keihart]

That depends of the rain season and vegetation but 20-25 years give time to nature to reproduce and cover cities specially talking about grass...it just needs 1- 2 years to cover a lot of areas...moss grows on few months...so I donot see TLOU2 exagerated this ...its factible. Even big trees can grow on 20 years..

I like how prominent the kudzu weed it's in the game, or what it looks like it. That shit it's supposed to be very invasive in NA and if leave it be for 20 year it should be everywhere.

 

[GymWolf]

I don't understand how anyone can like Ellie or find her relationship with Dina believable.
I get that the intent wasn't necessarily for us to like Ellie, but a lot of people defending the game do.

What the hell is there to like about her lol? She's seriously one of the least likeable characters in recent memory, there are fucked up cartoony psycho villains that are more likeable than her.
I'd even say that Joffrey in GoT is more likeable, at least he has a fucking personality.
Even Arya after she left Bravos and I couldn't stand her, I thought that they ruined her character completely and she still had more personality than Ellie. I never thought I'd say that about anyone, Arya was the worst after that.



Then why does Oween have styled hair? That dude wears hair gel lol.
They clearly wanted to make him look attractive so they dolled him up.

Makeup did exist in many cultures historically too, it'd probably exist in a world like this too tbh. It's not a recent invention and even men used to wear it.
Makeup dates even way back before the ancient times.
Even in a post apocalyptic world people would still have vanity and our ancestors managed to create and wear this stuff with even less access and knowledge about these things xD.

I can't stand that annoying bitch too, but no one is worse than arya fucking stark.

 

[Keihart]

I just want to take a moment to remind everyone of how much of a good guy Joel always was


/s

 

[GribbleGrunger]

 

[DForce]

I don't understand how anyone can like Ellie or find her relationship with Dina believable.
I get that the intent wasn't necessarily for us to like Ellie, but a lot of people defending the game do.

If she recently met Dina, then I would question it. But it's already established that she knew Ellie for years before their relationship began.

 

[DragoonKain]

I decided to keep playing after

Spoiler

you take over as Abby and give it a chance and yeah I'm still not liking it this section of the game. I really liked Ellie's. I'd give her part an 8/10, Abby's so far has been like a 4/10 to me. Not just because I don't like the character, but man the game gets incredibly repetitive and predictable. You basically start all over from scratch and have to rebuild again, which I don't like. The game just is dragging on way too long. Even the flashbacks are very similar to Ellie's. I feel like I'm playing over the first 15 hours all over again just with a different character.

And every single damn time you take a giant leap or fall from a high place(which happens like 20 damn times in this game) it predictably alerts a mass swarm of infected. Every single time. Even in areas where you cleared out the entire building. It was cool maybe the first 2 or 3 times. I swear it's happened like 20 times. Enough already, they beat this cliche to death.

 

[Vaelka]

If she recently met Dina, then I would question it. But it's already established that she knew Ellie for years before their relationship began.

I get that, they just have 0 chemistry imo.
I find the notion that she'd go with her on this suicide mission to be a bit unbelievable too.

 

[xrnzaaas]

If she recently met Dina, then I would question it. But it's already established that she knew Ellie for years before their relationship began.

The problem is with how the game is not showing enough of the relationship through flashbacks. For example the famous

Spoiler

kiss scene from the trailer isn't actually shown until very late in the game.

 

[carlosrox]

Yummy. TLOU headshots are something special.

"Just like that" indeed!

 

[PanzerAzel]

I found this interesting and worth talking about (not sure if posted already), it's great to see their creativity at work.

Cool contrast, but yeah the asphalt wouldn’t be nearly so overgrown, even 25+ years on. There’d be cracks with growth in it, as in the OG. Also, the flag flying in front of the courthouse would at that point be in complete tatters, if it was still flying at all.

Still, thanks for the vid. The amount of research they did is impressive.

 

[Neff]

Like what, in your opinion?

As I said elsewhere

He was a pretty terrible person. He told Tommy to keep driving past the stranded family even though he and Sarah wanted to pull over. Next time we see him, he's an arms dealer, shooting anyone who gets in his way. We learn that he used to hang out with the Hunters, known for killing innocent people for supplies. Saving Ellie was basically his first and only noble act, which he did for mostly selfish reasons, and potentially deprived humanity of its last hope.

Honestly, he had it coming.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

As I said elsewhere

Spoiler

Well, his decision to order Tommy to drive past the stranded family is reasonable, because he couldn't know whether or not they were infected. However, you're right about everything else. Damn.

 

[Solarstrike]

A few minutes in and Ellie’s already calling someone a bigot. Oh boy.

Because of this comment, I have canceled my Gold membership. Definitely a "spoiler" there but I guess the owner can do what he wants, it's his website.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I'm still on the struggle bus; I'm 26 hours into the campaign and am playing on Survivor. I've reached the part at which...

Spoiler

..Lev rescues Abby from being hanged and you (as Abby) subsequently fight off Stalkers two or three at a time. I've died perhaps 30 times; there doesn't seem to be any pattern by which you are to dodge their attacks and then strike. Furthermore, if two or more of them are attacking you simultaneously, one of them tackles you to the ground and performs and automatic kill. WTF? I'm seriously thinking of just swallowing my pride and lowering the difficulty, because the game feels cheap on Survivor at certain parts, such as this one.

EDIT:

Just after making this post, I managed to beat them without having to lower the difficulty. Ugh...

 

[Geki-D]

I'm still on the struggle bus; I'm 26 hours into the campaign and am playing on Survivor. I've reached the part at which...

Spoiler

..Lev rescues Abby from being hanged and you (as Abby) subsequently fight off Stalkers two or three at a time. I've died perhaps 30 times; there doesn't seem to be any pattern by which you are to dodge their attacks and then strike. Furthermore, if two or more of them are attacking you simultaneously, one of them tackles you to the ground and performs and automatic kill. WTF? I'm seriously thinking of just swallowing my pride and lowering the difficulty, because the game feels cheap on Survivor at certain parts, such as this one.

EDIT:

Just after making this post, I managed to beat them without having to lower the difficulty. Ugh...

One thing you need to know about dodging is that you have to be sure to dodge the hit and not the wind up. Gotta hit dodge just as the attack is about to connect. This help you soon for a very dodge heavy boss fight.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

One thing you need to know about dodging is that you have to be sure to dodge the hit and not the wind up. Gotta hit dodge just as the attack is about to connect. This help you soon for a very dodge heavy boss fight.

Spoiler

I'm now at the part at which you have to fight off waves of infected inside a decrepit dwelling while Lev attempts to unlock the exit from outside. I've died about seven times, by being instantly killed by clickers as I'm fending off several runners simultaneously.

I decided to look at The Rad Brad's playthrough of this part to see how it ultimately plays out; I saw that after the clickers arrive, at least two shamblers arrive as well. Now, I'm seriously contemplating lowering the difficulty from Survivor. This is just too much.

 

[Geki-D]

Spoiler

I'm now at the part at which you have to fight off waves of infected inside a decrepit dwelling while Lev attempts to unlock the exit from outside. I've died about seven times, by being instantly killed by clickers as I'm fending off several runners simultaneously.

I decided to look at The Rad Brad's playthrough of this part to see how it ultimately plays out; I saw that after the clickers arrive, at least two shamblers arrive as well. Now, I'm seriously contemplating lowering the difficulty from Survivor. This is just too much.

Yeah, that's definitely the hardest hold out part of the game. The shotgun will kill anything other than a shambler in one hit, you can even get 2 kills with one shot if the enemies are close enough. What I did was I moved to a area farthest from the door, like a kitchen looking place and here you can shotgun the clickers either as soon as they drop down or (they spawn depending on where you're standing in that room) as they push through the small spaces between the walls. Pipe bomb shamblers.