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Drama Cringe The left is blaming Trump for Iran shooting down the plane....

crowbrow

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No really, no one cares what some hypocrite Euro troll has to say on this matter. I think most are just annoyed you are back to shit up any conversation regarding the US and hope you will be banned again soon.
Sure, im one of the few with an opposing view here. Your arguments are so weak that you're basically begging for an eco-chamber. Eco chamber or not, the shit foreign Policy from the US will keep having nasty consequences and people like you will keep crying about it though.
 

crowbrow

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I'm not surprised you have the same low expectations of your own ability to reason, as the left has with regards to the Iranian regime and them shooting down an international commercial jet.
I'm not the one here insulting without providing a single counter-argument.
 

Cybrwzrd

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I think most rational people see shit like this and just think "Wow, the radical left will really blame anything they can on Trump, even when it is clearly someone elses fault"
 
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May 22, 2018
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To say that Trump is 100% to blame for the tragedy is obviously ridiculous. Iran deserves the lions share of the blame for their ineptitude in this entire debacle. But to say Trump or the US has no blame at all in the matter is also ridiculous in my opinion. If he hadn't escalated the situation in the region then the tensions wouldn't have been high enough to allow for such a tragedy to occur. Though I will obviously admit there is no way that Trump or his administration could have ever predicted or expected that such a tragedy could occur.

Though I don't expect that to be a popular point of view on here.
 

desertdroog

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I'm not the one here insulting without providing a single counter-argument.
I've countered your argument with in the context of the thread and addressing the absurdity of the lefts inability to understand direct actions. It's not my fault you are having a hard time keeping on track and find that to be insulting when pointed out.
 
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cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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To say that Trump is 100% to blame for the tragedy is obviously ridiculous. Iran deserves the lions share of the blame for their ineptitude in this entire debacle. But to say Trump or the US has no blame at all in the matter is also ridiculous in my opinion. If he hadn't escalated the situation in the region then the tensions wouldn't have been high enough to allow for such a tragedy to occur. Though I will obviously admit there is no way that Trump or his administration could have ever predicted or expected that such a tragedy could occur.

Though I don't expect that to be a popular point of view on here.
This just reeks of Iran did something bad so lets spin it back onto Trump. Your timeline is so convenient. Maybe if Iran was attacking US interests for the past 18 months the situation wouldn't of gotten to this. Maybe if Obama didn't sign the stupid Nuke deal, or if Carter didn't fold to the Mullaha's and on and on.

Keep in mind this tragedy happened because of IRANS escelation. Iran decided that after Salamiman was put 6 feet under to ESCELATE AND RETALIATE by bombing some Iraqi bases. So if IRAN didn't escelate the situation they wouldn't be launching missles and wouldnt have shot down this plane.
 
May 22, 2018
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This just reeks of Iran did something bad so lets spin it back onto Trump. Your timeline is so convenient. Maybe if Iran was attacking US interests for the past 18 months the situation wouldn't of gotten to this. Maybe if Obama didn't sign the stupid Nuke deal, or if Carter didn't fold to the Mullaha's and on and on.

Keep in mind this tragedy happened because of IRANS escelation. Iran decided that after Salamiman was put 6 feet under to ESCELATE AND RETALIATE by bombing some Iraqi bases. So if IRAN didn't escelate the situation they wouldn't be launching missles and wouldnt have shot down this plane.
And i agree. This is Irans fault. I am just saying that i believe US also shares a portion of the blame due to their own recent actions in the region.
 

Zefah

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The left has some very low expectations of Iran's regime and them shooting journalists covering the protestors is as a result of the 1953 Coup which causes them to be unable to not be murderous authoritarians. They can't help themselves, Iran gonna Iran, right?
It's so condescending how people on the far left do this to every minority group or any group/country that may have at one point suffered at the hands of Americans/white people. Anything negative those groups may do is simply beyond their control and the fault of imperialists or white people or capitalism.

And i agree. This is Irans fault. I am just saying that i believe US also shares a portion of the blame due to their own recent actions in the region.
For what reason? US actions leading to Iran's reactions may be true, but I don't see how the US can be blamed at all for Iran not grounding airplanes scheduled to depart from their own airports when they are launching planned missile strikes against an adversary.
 
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To say that she is 100% to blame for the tragedy is obviously ridiculous. The Rapist deserves the lions share of the blame for their ineptitude in this entire debacle. But to say She has no blame at all in the matter is also ridiculous in my opinion. If she hadn't escalated the situation by wearing revealing clothes in the wrong region then the tensions wouldn't have been high enough to allow for such a tragedy to occur. Though I will obviously admit there is no way that she could have ever predicted or expected that such a tragedy could occur.

Though I don't expect that to be a popular point of view on here.
FTFY
 
May 22, 2018
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For what reason? US actions leading to Iran's reactions may be true, but I don't see how the US can be blamed at all for Iran not grounding airplanes scheduled to depart from their own airports when they are launching planned missile strikes against an adversary.
I just ask myself this. Do i think Iran would have shot the plane down if the US hadn't escalated thing with Iran following the incident at the US embassy. And the answer in my opinion is no. So the US shares a portion of the blame in my view.

That is not me saying that Iran has no blame at all or that the US has the majority of the blame. Just the US has a small portion of it in my view. Like I said though I don't expect that to be a popular opinion on here or anyone to agree with me on it. Its just how I feel personally regarding the matter.

I'll take ridiculous false equivalencies for $800 alex.
 
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Zefah

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I just ask myself this. Do i think Iran would have shot the plane down if the US hadn't escalated thing with Iran following the incident at the US embassy. And the answer in my opinion is no. So the US shares a portion of the blame in my view.
Of course they wouldn't have shot missiles at this exact moment if the US hadn't killed their general, but that doesn't put the blame on the US. You still have to be responsible for your own actions. I would understand your reasoning if these had been innocents caught up in an attack on a US base, but that's not the case. These people had nothing to do with this whole conflict. It was a civilian airplane in Iranian airspace that had just departed from an Iranian airport. The level of incompetence, stupidity, and lack of planning required to allow this to happen is incomprehensible to me. The Iranian government has no one to blame but themselves and it's clear a lot of their own citizens agree.

I also ask why you focus only on the immediately prior escalation of Soleimani's assassination. Why not question Iran's culpability in that event? What about all of the other escalations and acts of aggression that Iran has lead over the past year? Why are you so generous in your expression of understanding towards those?

That is not me saying that Iran has no blame at all or that the US has the majority of the blame. Just the US has a small portion of it in my view. Like I said though I don't expect that to be a popular opinion on here or anyone to agree with me on it. Its just how I feel personally regarding the matter.
I do not blame Iran for coordinating a missile strike to make it look like they are strong towards their own citizens. It's understandable if not regrettable. The incompetence that lead to them shooting down a civilian aircraft, however, is separate from this and only Iran is to blame. 100%. Trump and the US's actions have nothing to do with it in terms of who is responsible.

It's not about your personal opinion. It's about having supporting evidence to assign blame and responsibility to a part for an action. You don't have any. Just because someone's actions may have inadvertently lead or opened up a path for a crime to happen does not mean they should be blamed for it (for example, if a company fires an employee and they go on a murderous rampage, their firing may have lead to that murderous rampage happening, but they wouldn't and shouldn't be responsible for it).
 
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I'll take ridiculous false equivalencies for $800 alex.
Just because you can't understand an analogy doesn't mean it is a false equivalency. That term is such a cop out btw.

But, believe it or not, I'm actually agreeing with you. Thing is, blame isn't always bad. For instance...

I turn the light on in a room full of people. Turns out there is a killer in the middle of the room and now that he can see he kills one of the people. Am I to blame? Yes I AM to blame for turning the light on. But that doesn't mean I did wrong.

The problem is people not saying whether they are assigning neutral, positive or negative blame in this situation.
 

desertdroog

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The effects of participation trophies are enabling arguments for rape apologia when applied to world events. The sad thing, is this is no longer relegated to fringe leftists, but a whole generation of people raised to blame parties tangentially, despite clear actions by a sole party.

Responsibility for ones actions, this is no longer social more.
 
May 22, 2018
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Just because you can't understand an analogy doesn't mean it is a false equivalency. That term is such a cop out btw.

But, believe it or not, I'm actually agreeing with you. Thing is, blame isn't always bad. For instance...

I turn the light on in a room full of people. Turns out there is a killer in the middle of the room and now that he can see he kills one of the people. Am I to blame? Yes I AM to blame for turning the light on. But that doesn't mean I did wrong.

The problem is people not saying whether they are assigning neutral, positive or negative blame in this situation.
Then let me be clear. I am assigning negative blame. Because I don't think the US should have retaliated the way they did to the incident at the embassy. The response should have been a diplomatic one not a military one.

Once again though I completely understand that there is no way that Trump or anyone else could have seen it coming. Its just a tragic consequence of a series of poorly handled decisions from everyone involved.
 
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Then let me be clear. I am assigning negative blame. Because I don't think the US should have retaliated the way they did to the incident at the embassy. The response should have been a diplomatic one not a military one.

Once again though I completely understand that there is no way that Trump or anyone else could have seen it coming. Its just a tragic consequence of a series of poorly handled decisions from everyone involved.
Can I ask what you think of Solaimani?
 
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I think he was a terrible human being and that the world is a better place with him gone.
Doesn't sound like it going by your posts... Sounds like you think the world would be a better place if he where still alive and some sanctions even after all the horrid things he did.
 
May 22, 2018
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Doesn't sound like it going by your posts... Sounds like you think the world would be a better place if he where still alive and some sanctions even after all the horrid things he did.
I can think the world is better off with him dead while still disagreeing with how he was killed.


If a prison guard pulled out his gun and shot a convicted murderer execution style I would say the world was better off without the murderer, but I would still condemn the actions of the guard.
 

DeepEnigma

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The effects of participation trophies are enabling arguments for rape apologia when applied to world events. The sad thing, is this is no longer relegated to fringe leftists, but a whole generation of people raised to blame parties tangentially, despite clear actions by a sole party.

Responsibility for ones actions, this is no longer social more.
Screw Marxism, this is Cultural Narcissism.
 

DarkMage619

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I'd argue that it is a lot more complicated than deposing a "democratically" elected Prime Minister.

So it's the US's place to install a leader of our choice to foreign countries? If another country did that to us we'd have a problem. We reap what we sow in foreign policy. We stay out of others business they'll stay out of ours.
 
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I can think the world is better off with him dead while still disagreeing with how he was killed.


If a prison guard pulled out his gun and shot a convicted murderer execution style I would say the world was better off without the murderer, but I would still condemn the actions of the guard.
And in that situation you would be right to do so because the guard was not doing his job. This thing happened in an active war zone however where it is our job to root out terrorists and threats to our soldiers. Remember Solaimani wasn't the only one taken out in this situation but several other high priority terror targets as well.

And as far as I remember, we have said time and time again that we will target terrorists wherever they live.

Imagine it if you had the opportunity. What would you do? Just take out the others even though you knew this other terrorist target would be there too just because you where afraid of the repercussions? In a war against terror what kind of message would that be sending? That it's ok to be a terrorist so long as you have the backing of x government because of fear of repercussions?

I've always been anti war. I think we'd be better off not there, cutting off their borders and just letting the people figure their crap out. But at the same time I'm of the idea that if you are going to do something, do it to the best of your ability. So, we are there and while we are we should do our jobs. I think we did that here, in spades.
 

dragonfart28

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I just ask myself this. Do i think Iran would have shot the plane down if the US hadn't escalated thing with Iran following the incident at the US embassy. And the answer in my opinion is no. So the US shares a portion of the blame in my view.

That is not me saying that Iran has no blame at all or that the US has the majority of the blame. Just the US has a small portion of it in my view. Like I said though I don't expect that to be a popular opinion on here or anyone to agree with me on it. Its just how I feel personally regarding the matter.


I'll take ridiculous false equivalencies for $800 alex.
Yea, the US is 100% at fault for the proximate cause of those deaths.

If they hadn't killed an Iranian general, there is a 100% chance those people never would have died.

Even capitalist CEOs agree.
 
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Yea, the US is 100% at fault for the proximate cause of those deaths.

If they hadn't killed an Iranian general, there is a 100% chance those people never would have died.

Even capitalist CEOs agree.
By that logic, there is also a 100% chance that the "Iranian general" would have gone on to do more horrible things to probably even more people than died in those planes...
 
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Cybrwzrd

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So it's the US's place to install a leader of our choice to foreign countries? If another country did that to us we'd have a problem. We reap what we sow in foreign policy. We stay out of others business they'll stay out of ours.
We didn't install our leader of choice in a foreign country.

Mohammed Reza Shah was already the Shah of Iran before the '53 coup. He appointed Mossadegh to be prime minister, who in turn tried to become the dictator. The coup prevented that.
 
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desertdroog

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Doses of reality aren't trolling.

This all escalated after the general was killed.
They escalated so hard, Iran not only killed their own civilians, but civilians of countries that had nothing to do with Soleimeni's death.

Iran not only messed up, they caused an international incident and attempted to cover it up until they were caught red-handed.

I know it pains you so, but the U.S. is blameless here.
 

Zefah

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Yea, the US is 100% at fault for the proximate cause of those deaths.

If they hadn't killed an Iranian general, there is a 100% chance those people never would have died.

Even capitalist CEOs agree.
And if this thread had never been made, there is a 100% chance you wouldn't have made this post. That doesn't mean the OP is responsible or to blame for your dumb replies. No one forced you to make them, just like no one forced Iran to shoot down a plane full of innocents.
 
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dragonfart28

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Yeah, I know man. It's too bad the austere general isn't alive to go on killing as usual with no fear of escalation in doing so...
He would have killed less than the number of deaths Trump's actions will lead to.

On 3 January, the US goaded Iran by assassinating its most senior military commander, Qassem Suleimani. Iran vowed retribution for what it saw as a declaration of war. US president Donald Trump then upped the ante, suggesting that any Iranian response might provoke a “disproportionate” US strike.
 
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Vicetrailia

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It's Iran's responsibility to not shoot that plane down, it's their fault.

Trump is the catalyst for the tension, but I don't blame him for the plane.
 
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He would have killed less than the number of deaths Trump's actions lead to.
First off, you have no idea how many lives he would have been responsible for if we hadn't stopped him, but going by his track record it certainly wouldn't have been just a few. Secondly, if Iran decides to make up for the difference, that's on them. Thirdly, If a member of your family was found out to be a serial killer and a bounty hunter from another country had an opportunity to take him out safely before he hurt someone else, do you then go on a rampage of revenge? Or do you thank the bounty hunter for stopping the family member from doing any more harm to innocents? Do you think the bounty hunter should have stopped and thought about what the repercussions would have been, possibly missing the shot and letting the serial killer, your family member, get away? Are you upset by the fact that it was a foreign bounty hunter?

Here is revelation for you. Believe it or not, Iran knew what Solaimani was doing. All of the horrible things. And even ordered him to do some, if not all, of it.

They knew what the consequences of their actions might lead to and they chose to do them anyway.

You can't just go around doing terrible things to people while telling them they can't retaliate because of the "consequences" if they do so. Someday, someone is going to be brave and strong enough to take that bet and stop you from causing harm to others regardless of what you threaten. Those are the true heroes.
 
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dragonfart28

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Anyway, no threat necessary anymore and we don't have a death count for Soulemani, but we do for Trump.

Trump says ‘it doesn’t really matter’ if there was an imminent threat from Soleimani
 
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I've seen a ton of this shit on reddit over the last week also - just hordes of people siding with Iran and it fucking sickens me, it seems it's become more important to hate Trump then even take your country side in things. I once considered myself left but the far-left has become the left now and I hate them more than anything. It's also been the last straw for me, any chance that I was still going to vote blue in 2020 (which I have for a long time) is gone at this point.
 
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DeepEnigma

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I can play a right wing CEO who's stepping up to the plate on this if you like.
Dude, STFU, you sound retarded.

You are clearly not here for any rational debate, just to sound more smoothbrain. You have yet to respond twice now to a post I quoted the other day. You're a waste of bandwidth at this point.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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I can play a right wing CEO who's stepping up to the plate on this if you like.
What's with this obsession with CEOs? Is it a meme or something?
 
Feb 25, 2013
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What's with this obsession with CEOs? Is it a meme or something?
He thinks it's a gotcha. He's probably so used to the NPC hivemind he thinks everyone is that way and can't comprehend what it's like to not be. So when he see's one CEO or something say something that might fit his coded narrative he probably thinks we should fall in line, as if CEO's are our coders or something.

Really it's just grasping at straws.
 
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