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[Kai]

So, was watching the Fallout 3 retrospective and on the right side of the screen was the fan movies. Apparantly, some fans are making a Zelda game that resembles majora's mask with GBA/DS graphics. I thought it was pretty incredible and wanted to post it here:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/280930.html?playlist=featured

There is also a website for the makers.... if you are a Zelda fan, expecially one of Majora's Mask, check the trailer above out and the link below:

http://www.zfgc.com/users/kingmob/index.html

 

[Yazuka]

That looked pretty good actually.
I wonder if they will finish the game before Nintendo finds out.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Yeah, I am really impressed.

 

[Rewrite]

Wow.

 

[Kai]

I wish NOA would have the forsight to actually think this through a bit more before shutting it down. Give the makers a shot at pitching the title to Nintendo to be placed on WiiWare and if done well, then localize the trailer and design docs to send to NOJ and have Anouma look at the work being done in the fan community.

It would not be too different to how things like Counterstrike or DOTA was created amongst the PC community.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Wow, that actually does look really good, fantastic spritework! (Fits right in with the Minish Cap style!)

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I wish NOA would have the forsight to actually think this through a bit more before shutting it down.

Unfortunately, if you don't actively and aggressively protect IP you run the risk of all sorts of crap that can tarnish your brand image getting onto the market.

 

[speedpop]

Yeah that's basically the gist of it. Most hugely successful self-sustained mods created for the online community on PCs are using original assets from scratch, and not rehashed polygons/sprites.

 

[Ydahs]

And to think it's being made with Game Maker. You people should try out the demo. Feels like a Zelda game!

 

[Feep]

:O

 

[Kai]

Unfortunately, if you don't actively and aggressively protect IP you run the risk of all sorts of crap that can tarnish your brand image getting onto the market.

Trust me, I know... however that does not mean in this day and age in a community driven market (i.e. youtube, facebook, XNA) that companies can't evolve. I never said they shouldnt protect their IP, however that does not mean that there could be someone at Nintendo's business development department that could see the fans website, contact them before shutting it down and ask them to put together a true proposal to pitch the idea for a platform that makes sense to Nintnedo (i.e. Wiiware, DSware, etc.). This is what a community outreach department should do.

In fact, I remember hearing Reggie at GDC one year mention that he chatted with the LBP creators and unfortunatley, it fell through. Yes the situation is different because this isn't an original IP, however that doesn't mean NOA couldn't actually use their resources to take a good idea, wrap a solid business model around it and pitch it to NOJ.

 

[HK-47]

Roll move is fuck awesome. And holy hell at that ship sprite

 

[Always-honest]

wow, that's amazing

 

[HK-47]

Trust me, I know... however that does not mean in this day and age in a community driven market (i.e. youtube, facebook, XNA) that companies can't evolve. I never said they shouldnt protect their IP, however that does not mean that there could be someone at Nintendo's business development department that could see the fans website, contact them before shutting it down and ask them to put together a true proposal to pitch the idea for a platform that makes sense to Nintnedo (i.e. Wiiware, DSware, etc.). This is what a community outreach department should do.

In fact, I remember hearing Reggie at GDC one year mention that he chatted with the LBP creators and unfortunatley, it fell through. Yes the situation is different because this isn't an original IP, however that doesn't mean NOA couldn't actually use their resources to take a good idea, wrap a solid business model around it and pitch it to NOJ.

Hell half of Valves IPs are ones they got from the community =P

 

[Kai]

Hell half of Valves IPs are ones they got from the community =P

Exactly. It would be in NOA's best interest to have someone whom has their pulse on the community, especially since their products inspire so many people creatively. An educated "insider" whom works with Nintendo's business development group that knows what GAF is, watches the mod community for bright spots (like this one and the Metroid 2 remake). Unfortunatley, what happens is when a company grows as large as Nintendo, they seem to bring in individuals on the business side with traditional experience & education, whom may not truly understand the sub-culture of the gaming industry or even their own community.

Either way, I hope these guys get to finish their project.....

 

[ampere]

The visuals are stunning. Especially the old goron who was in Majora's Mask! This just looks amazing all around.

Hell half of Valves IPs are ones they got from the community =P

Hehe, so true. Somehow I can't see Nintendo picking up an indie development team, but they really should consider it.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

In fact, I remember hearing Reggie at GDC one year mention that he chatted with the LBP creators and unfortunatley, it fell through. Yes the situation is different because this isn't an original IP, however that doesn't mean NOA couldn't actually use their resources to take a good idea, wrap a solid business model around it and pitch it to NOJ.

Yeah, they could.

But then why should amateur game designers get to use established brands to promote their product?

There's shit loads of indy devs out there doing things the 'right' way and creating their own assets, characters and storylines from scratch, and I'm pretty sure if they made something good they could go to Nintendo and get such a deal going as a win-win situation for both parties involved. Would it be 'fair' for something like Braid to get less attention than a SMB romhack?

As it is, jacking someone elses IP and design for your own game is - at best - a cop-out solution for the designer, and an unsolicited risk for the IP owner.

 

[tabsina]

this is looking fantastic.. can't wait to see the finished product (if there will be one, it seems as though some of you are talking as if it has already been canned by nintendo?)

oh and that dream thing to help the baby Goron reminded me a fair bit of that Oblivion quest

 

[Kai]

As it is, jacking someone elses IP and design for your own game is - at best - a cop-out solution for the designer, and an unsolicited risk for the IP owner.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, however if that was the case all the time, there would be no DOTA (using all Warcraft 3 assets) or quite a bit of Valve's now wholly owned IP's.

Measurement of creativity is definetly something someone should look at, however what we are talking about here is essentially a MOD and not an "indie" game. MOD communities and Indie game communites are different for a reason. Doesn't mean that there isn't a benefit to an IP holder from some bright members of a MOD community.

 

[pakkit]

I also see there's a bit of talk about Nintendo possibly issuing a cease and desist for this game.
Well, Nintendo is incredibly lenient when it comes to fan projects, they have never issued a cease and desist for an offline, and free fan-game.
In fact, I think they have only ever requested one online fan-game remove the Zelda graphics.

He doesn't seem very worried.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, however if that was the case all the time, there would be no DOTA (using all Warcraft 3 assets) or quite a bit of Valve's now wholly owned IP's.

I think the important distinction there is that to play DOTA (or any other mod)you need to buy WC3 in the first place, you cant just download it off the interwebs for free (or worse, pay someone unaffiliated with the IP its using for it)

 

[Eteric Rice]

This and that Metroid fan game are pretty fuck awesome.

 

[Kai]

I think the important distinction there is that to play DOTA (or any other mod)you need to buy WC3 in the first place, you cant just download it off the interwebs for free (or worse, pay someone unaffiliated with the IP its using for it)

=). I agree, but to be fair to the community, Nintendo has never released any tools ala Blizzard. Like I said, instead of looking at it negatively, having the foresight to see how passionate your community can be about your IP could lead to a finacially benefical agreement (i.e. placing a MOD on a Nintendo distribution platform).

 

[Jive Turkey]

At first I was pissed that this wasn't the official announcement of the Wii Zelda game.

Now I'm pissed that I won't get to play it. That looked really good.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Looks pretty cool. Needs more copy editing though.

 

[tabsina]

This and that Metroid fan game are pretty fuck awesome.

is this recent? have a link?

 

[robertsan21]

please Nintendo, add this to online download for a fee!!

 

[:Motorbass]

Wow, this is really a quality fangame. Lots of AA custom Sprites and great storyline:

Two parallel versions of the game world: the everyday waking world, and its nightmarish counterpart, unseen by all except those trained to use the Shadowgazer - a magical totem that protects the bearer from the nightmare realm's maddening effects

A rotating three-day schedule, governed by the comings and goings of the ships in the port town of Hyrule. Record valuable information regarding the nightmares of the passengers and crew in your Cabin Boy's Handbook

So much you can make from this and the star conscellations.
I'm actually sad that this isn't a Nintendo game. Because you know if they use that concept for on of their own new Zelda titles, then there's gonna be a riot.

 

[Vorador]

Well, since from quite a while NoA doesn't give a shit about anything, maybe the fan group will be able to finish this project without getting shut down. Maybe.

 

[DDayton]

maybe the fan group will be able to finish this project without getting shut down. Maybe.

...or maybe a fan group could make a game using similar mechanics and gameplay to a Nintendo title but without using copywritten sprites, characters, and music!

(blinks, innocently)

 

[rainking187]

Unfortunately, if you don't actively and aggressively protect IP you run the risk of all sorts of crap that can tarnish your brand image getting onto the market.

Like the CDi games?

 

[Somnid]

What a waste. If you are going to put this much effort into something at least make your own IP. It's not that hard to make an homage if you really like a game. There's plenty of people out there to help you out with art/music and what-not.

However because this is just stealing characters, art, seemingly music and sound effects Nintendo has every right to shut them down and I would whole-hearted agree with such a decision.

 

[TheChaos]

Speaking of stolen material, when's that Black Sigil game coming out? Looks cool.

 

[Taurus]

Awesome.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Looks nice, but the name's gotta go.

 

[MNC]

That's looking great! Hope Nintendo doesn't interfere

What's the resemblance with Majora's Mask though?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

...or maybe a fan group could make a game using similar mechanics and gameplay to a Nintendo title but without using copywritten sprites, characters, and music!

Why does this matter so much, though? I mean, yes - there's a ton of merit in using original assets. There's a sense of accomplishment with using 100% original artwork. That's great. If you're going to make a game, you should probably do that.

But outside of potential legal issues, should it really matter as much as it does? Assuming they actually finish this thing (so many of the better-looking fangames get canceled or simply sit in development limbo for years), you get to play a great game, either way.

It's just one way, you have original sprites and original characters, and the other way, you have Link and Octoroks. If it's going to be the same game one way or the other, and the developer(s) is alright with never getting any money out of it, who cares? I don't.

Is it something to do with "growing up"? You have to stop certain fandom-related outputs at a certain age? Or a certain quality level? Because a lot of professional comic book artists still draw fanart outside of official artwork gigs. You think that just because some guy gets hired to draw Spider-Man for Marvel suddenly he's not allowed to draw Superman or something in his sketch book and post it to his art blog?

Do you think that if people are making games of such quality that nobody will hire them if their portfolio contains cribbed assets? I don't know if that really matters; if you show an understanding of how a game works from a design perspective, it shouldn't matter what you designed it with, it should matter how you designed it. I'd like to hope that's enough. A good game is a good game, regardless of what was stolen from where. After all, for some designers, it's either going to be nice looking Link sprites or it's going to be ghastly MS Paint stuff.

As for being threatened with a lawsuit, those incidents are rapidly dwindling. Most of them were likely the result of misunderstandings - a lack of clarity regarding what a fangame is (I'd assume most companies saw them as illegal bootlegs and that the people making them had the intent to sell what they were creating - that's almost never the case, with a fangame). The last C&D I remember hearing about was probably four or five years ago - Chrono Resurrection.

There's nothing wrong with fangames as long as they're fun and they actually manage to get released.

 

[Apenheul]

That trailer looked very good. I played the demo for a bit and I'd say that it definitely captures the Zelda atmosphere. The people behind the project apparently know how a Zelda game should play very well.

 

[Fuu]

That's looking great! Hope Nintendo doesn't interfere

What's the resemblance with Majora's Mask though?

This:

A rotating three-day schedule, governed by the comings and goings of the ships in the port town of Hyrule. Record valuable information regarding the nightmares of the passengers and crew in your Cabin Boy's Handbook

 

[DDayton]

But outside of potential legal issues, should it really matter as much as it does? Assuming they actually finish this thing (so many of the better-looking fangames get canceled or simply sit in development limbo for years), you get to play a great game, either way.

. . .

As for being threatened with a lawsuit, those incidents are rapidly dwindling. Most of them were likely the result of misunderstandings - a lack of clarity regarding what a fangame is (I'd assume most companies saw them as illegal bootlegs and that the people making them had the intent to sell what they were creating - that's almost never the case, with a fangame). The last C&D I remember hearing about was probably four or five years ago - Chrono Resurrection

It's a mixture of a few things.

1) Using unique artwork would allow the developers to retain complete ownership of the game and, possibly, see it later released to a "mainstream" audience if it were any good. I mean, imagine if Cave Story had been done entirely with stolen sprites and music... do you think we'd be seeing a Wii release of it now?

2) There is always the chance of legal issues -- even if they are limited to the game ceasing to exist. It seems silly to open yourself up to your game being removed from the internet, essentially. Why make a game that you could be forced to cease the distribution of?

3) Ethical/moral issues -- the fans didn't create the characters, and thus really have no "moral claim" to them. I'd rather have them create their own characters/story/game than do a simple copy from an existing template... especially when the copyright owners request/ask/demand that fans do not produce such derivative works. Common courtesy and all that.

4) The inevitable thread of whining when fan projects get "shut down" due to improper use of materials the fan project creators neither own nor have any claim to. These kinds of threads are only a little less annoying than the "NINTENDO IS REFUSING TO LET US PLAY GOLDENEYE ON THE 360" thread(s).

 

[Neomoto]

It looks incredible, I hope they can finish it. Although I agree they should do their own assets but leave the ideas and gameplay intact. I'm sure they could put it up digital distribution channels and make some good money in the process.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Using unique artwork would allow the developers to retain complete ownership of the game and, possibly, see it later released to a "mainstream" audience if it were any good. I mean, imagine if Cave Story had been done entirely with stolen sprites and music... do you think we'd be seeing a Wii release of it now?

WiiWare Cave Story is nice and all, I guess, but I'm pretty indifferent towards a console release of a free PC game that can run on an extremely wide range of hardware. Yes, the WiiWare version is getting upgraded a little bit, but... still. Can't really seem to care.

Ethical/moral issues -- the fans didn't create the characters, and thus really have no "moral claim" to them. I'd rather have them create their own characters/story/game than do a simple copy from an existing template... especially when the copyright owners request/ask/demand that fans do not produce such derivative works. Common courtesy and all that.

Meh. If somebody specifically says "do not create derivative works", I'd expect people to respect that - but most companies don't give a shit about fangames nowadays. Hell, I'm pretty sure there have even been cases of... I want to say Capcom? Capcom even gave certain fangame creators a thumbs up. The Metroid Prime 2D development team also claimed years ago Nintendo gave them a thumbs up (stating that all they had to do was make it clear they were not affiliated with Nintendo). Being part of the Sonic fangame community practically since it was formed, those sorts of projects with regards to Sega franchises have existed going on 12 years now and Sega's never so much as batted an eyelash.

More and more companies realize they are no more harmful than little Billy writing a fanfic titled "MARIO & SONIC SAVE THE WORLD".

 

[epmode]

I wish NOA would have the forsight to actually think this through a bit more before shutting it down. Give the makers a shot at pitching the title to Nintendo to be placed on WiiWare and if done well, then localize the trailer and design docs to send to NOJ and have Anouma look at the work being done in the fan community.

It would not be too different to how things like Counterstrike or DOTA was created amongst the PC community.

Do you know of any Japanese developers who do stuff like this? Serious question.

 

[KeeSomething]

This game looks more appealing than any of Nintendo's recent attempts with the Zelda series, but I'm not sure if I could support a fan-made Zelda game. though, I was impressed with the dialogue; it seemed more natural and had more character than most fan-made games.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I wish Nintendo were more like Valve. Valve would hire these guys and then (after much work) release it for public consumption and profit.

 

[-COOLIO-]

the fans are doing nintendos dirty work for them?

 

[-COOLIO-]

wow this game looks so good.

they mimicked zelda dialogue almost perfectly

 

[Yaweee]

What is the point in unveiling this sort of project prior to release? It just increases the odds of the IP owner catching on and cracking down, leaving them with an unfinished game and a shitload of wasted time.

(Fun Fact: Did you know Firefox's spell-check accepts 'shitload', but not 'shitloads'?)

 

[loosus]

Looks to me like Nintendo would profit off all these homebrewn games by making a DS "game" or Wii "game" that has some basic objects/sprites and lets you make your own game, using some super-high-level scripting language like JavaScript, with maybe 256 KB of storage (and the inability to read larger games, even if someone hacks extra storage in).

That way, these people get to satisfy their greatest desires of making this stuff, their friends get to play it on real gaming hardware, and it's all done in a highly controlled environment where Nintendo still gets to laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Jocchan]

Looks really good. Thumbs up!

More and more companies realize they are no more harmful than little Billy writing a fanfic titled "MARIO & SONIC SAVE THE WORLD".

That fanfic would probably have a better plot than Sonic Unleashed/Sonic and the Black Knight.