The problem is not with the Wii U but with Nintendo : could they finish an entire game like this before 2020?
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The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD Announced
- Thread starter Seda
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lostinblue
Banned
Did you just confuse Nintendo with Square-Enix?
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
I think it's the complete opposite. The fact that this is getting made suggests to me that they're probably going closer to TP's artstyle with the new game. They wouldn't be blowing the reveal of a new HD Zelda game's artstyle by preemptively showing it off in a remake. That'd be taking the wind out of its sails.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
You know, on the topic if resources being diverted to HD remakes or remasters: I kinda have a feeling that one of the real purposes behind Wind Waker HD isn't just to shut the public up. But to give the core Zelda team a crash course in developing a Wii U game, and an HD game, from start to finish. In order to avoid bogging down the development of Zelda U.
It seems too much like an excuse for an engine tech dry run with the goal being to produce a polished retail product in an efficient amount of time.
In that sense, the project could turn out to be very beneficial in the long run.
It seems too much like an excuse for an engine tech dry run with the goal being to produce a polished retail product in an efficient amount of time.
In that sense, the project could turn out to be very beneficial in the long run.
Nostremitus
Member
I suppose that may be true as well.
But wouldn't making this in itself bog down the development of Zelda U for the EAD team? Spending months on a remake prevents them from developing assets/dungeons/mechanics on the next one.
Look at the OoT 3D: it wasn't like the Zelda team used that as an excuse to get familiar with a new system; Nintendo just outsourced it to Grezzo so they could buy the Zelda team time to finish SS/get started on a proper 3DS title.
I wouldn't be surprised if they've largely outsourced this title as well.
evilromero
Member
No more remakes. Also, that Zelda gif is absolutely doable. Nothing about it looks that impressive in my opinion. About par for the course for current gen consoles.
I tend to agree I think it will be closer to the HD TP zelda vid already shown as it give the team building it something to work with.
lostinblue
Banned
It's simpler than that, they're keeping the engine, and the engine is the same for WW, TP and SS, they've changed the graphics overhead over the years but the core engine evolution has been straightforward; it's a very good engine for them as it ensures that development is smooth, it's their work pipeline and has been for over 10 years now.
Wii U keeps the CPU environment but implements several differences, first of, their engine most likely wasn't multiprocessor ready, and they have now 3 cores to exploit. What's more, this new GPU changes the way some stuff works, GC/Wii didn't have a Vertex Shader unit so bone rigging, animation and vertex transformations had to be done on the CPU, taking some resources away, this free's it up; so even if it had the same clock they'd have more overhead just like that; but they have more overhead despite that.
On top of it all, this graphics architecture is new for them so they need to test it in order to ensure best results.
Now we know the next Zelda currently is a group of experiments, probably recycling assets or not even featuring graphics (blocks, and tests like that), it hasn't taken any shape or form yet.
What's best to ensure the engine runs and play around with the graphics options but a game that is already done and ready to be modified?
That's all there is to it; Nintendo focuses on graphics after the gameplay and concepts is locked down, so those artists would be stationed right now or working on stuff most likely without purpose as it would be scrapped sooner or later.
Wii U keeps the CPU environment but implements several differences, first of, their engine most likely wasn't multiprocessor ready, and they have now 3 cores to exploit. What's more, this new GPU changes the way some stuff works, GC/Wii didn't have a Vertex Shader unit so bone rigging, animation and vertex transformations had to be done on the CPU, taking some resources away, this free's it up; so even if it had the same clock they'd have more overhead just like that; but they have more overhead despite that.
On top of it all, this graphics architecture is new for them so they need to test it in order to ensure best results.
Now we know the next Zelda currently is a group of experiments, probably recycling assets or not even featuring graphics (blocks, and tests like that), it hasn't taken any shape or form yet.
What's best to ensure the engine runs and play around with the graphics options but a game that is already done and ready to be modified?
That's all there is to it; Nintendo focuses on graphics after the gameplay and concepts is locked down, so those artists would be stationed right now or working on stuff most likely without purpose as it would be scrapped sooner or later.
This type of power from a system is new for most Nintendo fans.
It does look good however, but as you said it's all doable on the current-gen systems.
I'm gonna have to call you pessimistic then. You saw that Xenoblade Wii U trailer, right?
The Wii U is more than capable of pulling that off. Keep the faith
Meesh
Member
Agreed. My hearts all aflutter just knowing WW is getting the HD treatment, and really it's so much better than waiting for a GC Wiiuvc release cuz god only knows when/if that'll ever happen. It's a win/win situation for the fans
Dion Blaster
Member
W101 already looks better than this at 60fps.
I see what you did there.
Anyway, I think the presence of Wink Waker HD only implies that Nintendo won't actually make another Wink Waker-styled game. I could see something with a more realistic take like the real-time demo, but I still wouldn't rule out something more watercolor-styled like Skyward Sword's art direction. Hell it could be film noir for all we know. It just probably won't be toon-styled.
I'm gonna have to call you pessimistic then. You saw that Xenoblade Wii U trailer, right?
The Wii U is more than capable of pulling that off. Keep the faith
Danielle Staub agrees.
Gillian Seed
Banned
I wonder, will Nintendo try to remake Twilight Princess as well? That game could benefit from updated graphics and music quality (even more so than Wind Waker IMO) in addition to Skyward Sword controls.
It would be cool to see this realized after all:
No! Motion/Waggle controls Suck!
StreetsAhead
Member
Was there waggle in Skyward Sword even?
If they could implement proper motion controls for WW (even just as an option) I'd be all for it.
You might be right, but when it comes to Nintendo, I wouldn't be surprised if they could pull it off. I mean, just look back at their history. Look at all the shitty looking third party games on Wii, and then look at what Nintendo was able to put on that system. Wind Waker is still visually impressive to me too, and that's a friggin Gamecube game. I have no doubt that Nintendo is gonna be able to do some amazing things with the Wii U.
I wonder, will Nintendo try to remake Twilight Princess as well? That game could benefit from updated graphics and music quality (even more so than Wind Waker IMO) in addition to Skyward Sword controls.
It would be cool to see this realized after all:
jesus that art style is awful. generic.
Spiderwebs.
Not really for combat... but yeah, those spider webs worked for it and were annoying too.
The scariest thing is you're serious.
Beermeister
Banned
100%.
StreetsAhead
Member
So it was just the spiderwebs then? That's good to know. With all the complaints, I assumed waggle was a bigger part of the game, but it seems it was just the regular idiots.
(I've only just bought a copy, but haven't started it yet).
In the recent investor's meeting of Nintendo, Miyamoto admitted that Nintendo still had some trouble with making the shift to HD and even have to reeducate their people (according to this translation by farnham on NeoGAF). Since the screenshots of this game look very early in beta to me, I believe this game is one of the projects used to reeducate the Zelda team with the development of HD software. This was also a pretty recent move by Nintendo, by the looks of it. This way, the graphic designers can familiarize themselves with HD development, while the others of the Zelda team rethink their approach on the series and focus on creating the new Zelda. I'm kind of wondering if some of those new design approaches will make it into The Wind Waker HD. I'm actually really curious on what they will add to this game, besides the HD graphics.
StreetsAhead
Member
Aonuma said as much in the Nintendo Direct. "After the 2011 E3 HD Zelda Experience, we continued to experiment with bringing older artstyles to HD, but with our experiments we found that the Wind Waker became something different' or something like that.
Also, Nintendo has been developing on more or less the same architecture and power level since ~1999, so it's only natural that their staff need to be retrained.
Its a bit more than that.
To make it simpler, in any game, if you had to mash buttons to break free or do an action, it would be waggle in SS.
Its not that important. Certainly a negligible part in the grand scheme of things.
My 2 cents on skyward sword. If you hate motion controls you won't like the control scheme, but if you go in with an open mind to try out the new scheme then you will love it.
The motion controls added so much to the game imo, even fighting enemies were like puzzles. Unfortanately we probably won't get another zelda game with similar controls. The only motions i thought were unnecessary was the swimming and the balancing on ropes.
The motion controls added so much to the game imo, even fighting enemies were like puzzles. Unfortanately we probably won't get another zelda game with similar controls. The only motions i thought were unnecessary was the swimming and the balancing on ropes.
I wonder, will Nintendo try to remake Twilight Princess as well? That game could benefit from updated graphics and music quality (even more so than Wind Waker IMO) in addition to Skyward Sword controls.
It would be cool to see this realized after all:
no no no nononononononononononono.
Skyward Sword controls would be HORRIBLE in any game not called Skyward Sword. The entire combat system is tooled around it and all the enemies are based on moving their weapons around for it. TP would not benefit whatsoever for giving precision where it is not needed, they would have to redo every enemy which would no longer be a very good remake.
I'm kinda confused why it's an issue for them...Nintendo's art assets are so gorgeous, that I feel like Nintendo could just use their same game design philosophy, and just make the resolution higher, and they would still end up with a gorgeous game that looked leaps better than other platforms.
I did just that, but the simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't always enjoy the same responsiveness or accuracy as the input functions of a traditional controller. I've been frustrated with the control scheme quite a few times. I like the concept, but it's obvious that kind of approach could really use a lot of improvement.
Thought I'd just point out these two little things in your post and then say that most of the errors I hear about regarding Skyward Sword's controls are either issues where the player isn't taking the time to try and learn the intricacies of the scheme or where they're doing things wrong and blaming the control scheme for it. Case and point: Gamespot's review of the game.
The main problem with the implementation is that there isn't enough variety in combat and it all becomes a bit of an annoying exercise after a while. The more interesting combat situations are the ones where you're fighting something that isn't just a case where you attack where they're not shielding.
Other than that, I don't think the motion plus stuff needed improving. Maybe they could have given us pointer controls for some of the items and dowsing, but the motion plus tilting works just fine as is for that.
Meesh
Member
I know it's just a demo, and I'm not sure if Links hop-sliding or just sliding but that move would make a damn fine parry or dodge + attack to his arsenal. Kinda like WWs roll attack...It would be cool to see this realized after all:
i'm in the camp that Zelda needs to return to a more whimsical look. not that shit up there.
What's the deal with the backwards slide? Platinum Games should make the next Zelda.
gamergirly
Member
So you're basically saying the control scheme is entirely free of responsive errors in your experience? That Link has never once swung his sword in a direction contrary to your remote?
If so, I'm impressed, and I'm usually a staunch defender of Skyward Sword's controls.
Choppasmith
Member
While this topic is up, is anyone else hoping for an Orchestrated Soundtrack? Listening to the Wind Waker track on the 25th Anniversary CD makes me hopeful (although to be honest it would really REALLY help Twilight Princess more)
Sorry if already posted but GameXPlain has a Zelda Wii U discussion video, with some Wind Waker HD talk.
Zelda U Discussion - Gameplay Ideas (Wii U Nintendo Direct)
Zelda U Discussion - Gameplay Ideas (Wii U Nintendo Direct)
abstract alien
Member
Nope. There will definitely be a new thread when that happens.
Thanks. I just found out about this. I quit gaming a few years ago and TWW was my favorite game, so I might get a Wii U for this.
Haha, I know it it isn't like super recent, but it is the second newest console Zelda! I honestly would rather have a full HD remake of Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask with all of the cut content from the N64DD development. I hear from unseen64 or something that originally Miyamoto had some pretty grand ideas for Ocarina of Time. Some of the beta OoT stuff is crazy. Then again, some of it was leaving a trail of footprints that never went away. With a TP remake I just want it to seem less barren, and give Zelda more of a role.
What is the difference? If you mean by updating the game besides the graphics, that is what I meant! Less OoT 3DS, more Super Mario 64 DS. I know what you mean about the last minute stuff. Going through Hyrule Historia, it appears that Malo Mart was even added in at the last minute because the staff liked the character.
The graphic style of Wind Waker HD is a bit odd, but I'll have to see it in motion. Also, is it just me or are his sleeves brown instead of a light green?
I tried the Zelda tech demo at E3 2011, and it was awesome and in real time. You could change the camera angle and switch between night and day in real time. Also go from TV to gamepad.
abstract alien
Member
Can't even blame you if you do. This game is bound to be amazing, especially since its actually getting a bit of a redesign instead of just throwing it in HD.
AppleSmack
Banned
I really want this game as I never played Wind Waker...But I still think I'll wait for a sub 200 Wii U.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
That twilight realm got me thinking what if Zelda was like survival horror. The begining of TP with wolf link escaping from the cell or whatever has a really survival horror kinda a vibe to me. They want to rethink the conventions of zelda they should really look back on that section of TP.
Good talk, thanks for the link! I sub to them, but missed this one somehow. I really liked some of their ideas for the multplayer aspect
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Environments look fantastic, a little too much Nextgen bloom though lol
Not too sure about the characters, Nintendo does know Cell-shaded graphics without the cell shaded part looks like shit don't they?
Guess its best to wait to see it in action
Not too sure about the characters, Nintendo does know Cell-shaded graphics without the cell shaded part looks like shit don't they?
Guess its best to wait to see it in action
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