Ulysses 31
Member
PS4 Pro does have auto game mode.
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The LG C9 OLED TV- is it bright enough for HDR video and gaming?
- Thread starter kittoo
- Start date
Skyr
Member
Really? Got a source for that? Can’t find anything about it.
Ulysses 31
Member
My personal observation that my Q900R switches to game mode when I switch to the HDMI port and turn on the PS4 Pro when I have game mode on auto for that HDMI port.
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Skyr
Member
Ah ok got it. So I guess the difference between the ps4 pro game mode and proper ALLM implementation would be that ALLM detects what kind of content your console is playing meaning that if you watch a blu ray or Netflix on your console it switches game mode automatically off.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Not sure about that since I have my PS4 HDMI directly connected to the TV connectbox.
Skyr
Member
You would have to try it out.. I can’t find anything about the TVs which support ps4 pro auto game mode. I’m sure someone who already has a c9 could answer that.
We are in a transitioning period right now.. when hdmi 2.1 will be fully implemented in all source devices we won’t need to think about it anymore but for now there are a lot of factors that play into that.
Journey
Banned
I didn't realize they had dropped to that. But I have a pretty decent Samsung 65" plasma that I want to upgrade to at least 75" or 77" if that's the cut they're using, and last I checked the prices were still pretty steep. My limit is $3,000, I refuse to pay more for a TV and the 75" Mini LED from TCL retails for that out of the box and will probably drop by the beginning of next year, that's why I feel tempted to jump on that, but I've always had OLED in my crosshairs, just waiting for the right price.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Keep in mind that TCL isn't yet supporting HDMI 2.1 even with the new MiniLED coming.
If I were to take an educated guess, is that it probably won't be until 2021 around this time that you would see a 75" OLED selling at an authorized retailer for around $3000. In 2020 you might find a crazy deal for an OLED in that range, but it's extremely unlikely that it will be through an authorized retailler.
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Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
77 is not that mainstream so prices are a bit difficult
Venuspower
Member
ALLM ≠ Just Switching to game mode
What ALLM allows you do do is to get the lowest inputlag possible with any picture preset you want.
Besides that ALLM will only trigger when you start a game (This can be done because the source is telling the TV if it is playing a game or movie).
For example:
Some people are using there console as Streaming Device as well. Thanks to ALLM
the TV is able to detect whether these people are using e.g. Netflix/YT etc. or if they are
starting a game. If someone launches Netflix ALLM won't kick in. But as soon as e.g. RDR2 will be started ALLM will switch
your TV into the "Low Input Lag Mode".
What Samsung TVs are doing is different (at least with Non-VRR devices). All they are doing is identifying the source device as soon as the TV detects e.g. a PS4. Then the TV switches to game mode if you switch to the HDMI port. Even when you are not going to launch a game.
In other words: This has nothing to do with ALLM. While Samsung TVs actually support ALLM PS4 (PRO) does not. That is why ALLM won't be used with your PS4 (PRO). Instead the Samsung TV will use their "version" (which does not rely on the ALLM signal). Before you might ask: Sony does not use a "own" ALLM solution. It is just the TV that detects the console. PS4 is not doing anything "strange" in that regard.
Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM)
ALLM lets a game console, PC or other device send a signal to the display which will cause it to automatically switch to a low-latency, low-lag mode for gaming. HDMI 2.1b
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The Infectious Paradox
Gold Member
Is that automatic?
Ulysses 31
Member
Venuspower
Member
Nope.
RTINGs is just wrong with the PS4.
With the rest they are not as specific.
€: They even say that PS4 does not support ALLM on the same page:
For some reason they still claim that PS4 comes with a "proprietary feature that works on most TVs".
But as I mentioned earlier. This is not the case either. It is the TV that detects the device as a console.
PS4 is not doing anything in that regard.
TVs are able to recognize HDMI devices for a long time now (Most TVs also know if you are connecting a FireTV, Apple TV and stuff like that). That is why it is not that hard for TV manufacturers to do stuff like "auto switch to game mode". My old TV from 2011 did not go that far. But during the initial setup it selected the Game Mode for the HDMI profile where I had my PS3 connected to (Most TVs actually do that if I am right). But as I mentioned. This has nothing to do with ALLM
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TheBoss1
Member
The seller does it for you as soon as it is received.
Kuranghi
Member
Reading through the comments here of C9 owners, there are a few people here who use interpolation motion settings to mitigate the stutter on 24 fps content such as BDs and UHD BDs [Caused by OLED's very low response time and method of displaying images].
Some people said it does not introduce SOE for them and you can only sometimes see artifacts during pans of complex material, I have studied motion on LG, Panasonic, Sony and Samsung extensively on a range of content at different levels of motion settings and I concluded that the general sentiment, "Sony is king of motion" [Or is that just Vincent Teoh that said it like that?], seems true to me.
Samsung definitely has the worst motion and gets very confused with movements involving transparency. Panasonic is decent to good at the very lowest settings but shits the bed at anything higher. LG I found is good at lower settings but has a strong weakness when static background have objects moving back and forth across them - example: a guitarist in a music video bobbing up and down against a patterned wall had a thick clear border around him, like pork pie jelly.
I want to ask why the buyers of C9 on here DIDN'T buy the Sony A8F, or A9F over an LG OLED? If you were going to use the motion interpolation settings that is.
Is it as simple as difference in price? Which i totally understand, especially if you are going to be upgrading again in a few years. Was it because you hadn't read anything about the Sony vs LG motion, because you didn't know you would have to/want to use the motion settings to achieve your own preference for the motion and thus didn't look into the differences? Or was it because you weren't even aware there WAS a Sony OLED?
Or any other reason I haven't covered it here.
Bonus video: I'm sure a lot of you already own this so its more as a link to the episode than an actual link to watch it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0861m8b/planet-earth-ii-6-cities - its also on Netflix [In the UK at least], the Peregrine Falcon scene in this episode is another torture test for motion interpolation settings, this one the Panasonic failed so hard on it was an unwatchable mass of tearing and artifacts. Never saw it on LG OLED though. Specifically the part where its an ultra zoom in on the birds as they swoop down and buildings pass by in the background insanely fast.
Double bonus: I just remembered another hard bit - the giant flock of a million birds - the Panasonic also went nuts over this scene, like it was morphing the image.
If you don't notice any artifacts [with your preferred motion settings] in these tests and the previous one I posted I'd say you are golden :yosh:
Some people said it does not introduce SOE for them and you can only sometimes see artifacts during pans of complex material, I have studied motion on LG, Panasonic, Sony and Samsung extensively on a range of content at different levels of motion settings and I concluded that the general sentiment, "Sony is king of motion" [Or is that just Vincent Teoh that said it like that?], seems true to me.
Samsung definitely has the worst motion and gets very confused with movements involving transparency. Panasonic is decent to good at the very lowest settings but shits the bed at anything higher. LG I found is good at lower settings but has a strong weakness when static background have objects moving back and forth across them - example: a guitarist in a music video bobbing up and down against a patterned wall had a thick clear border around him, like pork pie jelly.
I want to ask why the buyers of C9 on here DIDN'T buy the Sony A8F, or A9F over an LG OLED? If you were going to use the motion interpolation settings that is.
Is it as simple as difference in price? Which i totally understand, especially if you are going to be upgrading again in a few years. Was it because you hadn't read anything about the Sony vs LG motion, because you didn't know you would have to/want to use the motion settings to achieve your own preference for the motion and thus didn't look into the differences? Or was it because you weren't even aware there WAS a Sony OLED?
Or any other reason I haven't covered it here.
Bonus video: I'm sure a lot of you already own this so its more as a link to the episode than an actual link to watch it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0861m8b/planet-earth-ii-6-cities - its also on Netflix [In the UK at least], the Peregrine Falcon scene in this episode is another torture test for motion interpolation settings, this one the Panasonic failed so hard on it was an unwatchable mass of tearing and artifacts. Never saw it on LG OLED though. Specifically the part where its an ultra zoom in on the birds as they swoop down and buildings pass by in the background insanely fast.
Double bonus: I just remembered another hard bit - the giant flock of a million birds - the Panasonic also went nuts over this scene, like it was morphing the image.
If you don't notice any artifacts [with your preferred motion settings] in these tests and the previous one I posted I'd say you are golden :yosh:
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Noboru Wataya
Banned
Why are people using the trumotion interpolation for 24p content instead of using real cinema mode which is specifically designed for that by supposedly matching the frame rate to that of the content?
The only problem with the TV that I have found is that the response time is TOO quick some times. When using optical out from the tv to my Samsung soundbar, the image is displayed quicker than the sound bar can process the audio. Resulting in the smallest (but noticeable if looking for it) delay in lip sync.
The real problem is that I can use the built in audio delay option but it just makes the gap worse. I have to force trumotion on to it’s lowest setting to add some latency to the image.
I find this is most evident with the onboard apps like Netflix and YouTube. Not so much on games.
The only problem with the TV that I have found is that the response time is TOO quick some times. When using optical out from the tv to my Samsung soundbar, the image is displayed quicker than the sound bar can process the audio. Resulting in the smallest (but noticeable if looking for it) delay in lip sync.
The real problem is that I can use the built in audio delay option but it just makes the gap worse. I have to force trumotion on to it’s lowest setting to add some latency to the image.
I find this is most evident with the onboard apps like Netflix and YouTube. Not so much on games.
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Amaranty
Member
LCD and OLED panels use sample and hold method to portray motion. Fast pixel response time makes 24p content look like it's stuttering in panning shots. Slower pixel response time makes it seem like the frames blend into one another, which most people see as blur.
If real cinema is like true cinema on Sony TV's, then it only helps in removing judder, but it doesn't help with stutter.
SlaughterX
Banned
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PropellerEar
Member
Got 77C9 from black Friday, just waiting for it to get delivered.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The purpose of BFI (Black Frame Insertion) and backlight blinking (on LCD's) is to reduce or eliminate sample-and-hold.
All modern TV's can properly display 24p without 3:2 pulldown, usually by frame-multiplying into 120 hz refresh. There is no 24p stuttering when panning on any modern TV properly displaying output from a Blu-ray player.
Sample-and-hold has not been an issue for LCD TV's for some years now because of native backlight blinking. OLED TV's have no equivalent to backlight blinking but their pixel response time is instant anyways so it's largely a moot point. If you are still seeing blur, it's not because of sample-and-hold.
Amaranty
Member
Correct pulldown removes judder, but I'm talking about stutter. It's a different thing.
Look up rtings.com reviews on modern TVs. They always talk about each TV stutter under motion section. OLED TVs always receive the worst score regarding stutter due to their instaneous pixel response time.
Bankai
Member
Yes! It's an AWESOME tv with the best low-latency game-mode (long live HDMI 2.1) and futureproof because of VRR. Burn-in risk is really a non-issue; plasma-tv's were WAY more prone to burn-in than OLED's. Plenty of reviews out there which prove that point.
You really can't go wrong with the C9
You really can't go wrong with the C9
Nethernova
Member
Just upgraded my c7 to a c9 can't wait should arrive in the next few days! Gsync was the clincher
can't wait should arrive in the next few days! Gsync was the clincher
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The LG C9 (and above) is the only OLED currently available that supports full bandwidth HDMI 2.1. The current Sony models do not. That immediately makes them a no buy. Given that the C9 is priced very competitively, it's a no brainer with that being the TV to get. On Neogaf where gaming is king, it's not hard to realize that fact is a big deal to many.
Yes, Sony is known as the best when it comes to motion handling, but I can safely say that the C9 is no slouch. The "Clear" setting for TruMotion works wonders for 24 fps content and largely eliminates any stutter without introducing the soap opera effect and/or appearing unnatural. Some stutter still exists in shots, but it's drastically minimized when the Clear setting is enabled. The alpha 9 processor is the real deal.
That's my take anyway. Some may feel differently.
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DemonCleaner
Member
mitchman
Gold Member
B9 and E9 also offers HDMI 2.1, btw.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The E9 is also drastically more expensive ($500 more for 55" and $1000 more for 65") and doesn't really offer anything over the C9 in terms of performance. It basically has better sound, which might matter for some, but I'd wager that the vast majority of people would rather go with the C9 and put the savings toward a dedicated sound system/bar. As such I never really consider the E9 an option for most people.
The B9, however is a bit of a mystery, because it reportedly doesn't offer the full bandwidth of HDMI 2.1. I have read that due to the weakness of the alpha 7 processor, that it can only offer 4K/120 for SDR and not HDR. There is no way to currently confirm this, but if true that is a pretty significant loss.
To be a fair, there is also no way to confirm that the C9 offers true full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 as there are currently no sources available. Hopefully next gen nvidia and AMD GPUs will offer full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 to test.
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The Wise Old Man
Member
Ahoy, so my C9 tv arrives today. I just realized I need to upgrade to a 4K receiver in order to use my sound system. Can anyone recommend a good 4K receiver?
Ulysses 31
Member
Denon AVR-X8500H for that Atmos 13.2 baby!
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The Wise Old Man
Member
hah, I was thinking of something more in the $500 range...
DarkBatman
Member
Did you connect your PS4 to another screen? Sounds more like a HDMI problem...
Are other HDMI ports/devices working on the TV?
Kuranghi
Member
JohnnyFootball
Will you not be looking at a new TV before 4K@120hz becomes feasible on AAA games? If in 2 years we see an OLED with 1000+nits on a real scene will you not consider upgrading to that?
I have my doubts 20 tflops GPUs will be affordable even in 2021, plus games will have moved on graphically so the demand will be even higher than 20 tflops for 4K@120. About 18tflops is a best case scenario for running Doom 2016 at 4K@120hz, which is a notoriously well optimised game.
I don't know if we'll be gaming at those numbers even in 2030 tbh. Not without weird new rendering methods and AI upscaling, which ultimately means its not true 4K.
mejin
Member
My TV is on the wall. I tested 3 good quality hdmi cables and tested the hdmi inputs 1, 2 and 3. The tv recognizes ps4 pro, but it just doesn't show anything.
I have a soundbar on hdmi 2 (arc) and the pc is connected to hdmi 3. The pc sometimes didn't show image, but it works.
I connected the pc to hdmi 1 and it didn't work out. I tested my brother's ps4 pro on all three entries and gave the same problem.
Finally, I reset the tv to the initial settings and repeated the whole process. It was no use.
LOLCats
Banned
denon yuck.
LOLCats
Banned
a lot of higher end receivers have a strict advertised msrp. But you can cut thousands off high end units and hundreds off mid range.
it kind of depends on what features you want, but id recommend a Yamaha RX-A1080 If you can swing the 700-800$ otherwise check out the Yamaha RX-Vs Also where about do you live? There are regional brick and mortar stores you can get great deals at, Frys, Video Only, Microcenter
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
At the end of the day there is always going to be something better coming. That is just a fact. I am not seeing much on the horizon that is of immediate want for me. MicroLED is the next big thing, but that is still several years away and by the time it comes out who knows what advancements have been made in OLED. OLED costs are only going to continue to decrease and should be priced very competitively by the time MicroLED hits stores.
Will you not be looking at a new TV before 4K@120hz becomes feasible on AAA games? If in 2 years we see an OLED with 1000+nits on a real scene will you not consider upgrading to that?
I have my doubts 20 tflops GPUs will be affordable even in 2021, plus games will have moved on graphically so the demand will be even higher than 20 tflops for 4K@120. About 18tflops is a best case scenario for running Doom 2016 at 4K@120hz, which is a notoriously well optimised game.
I don't know if we'll be gaming at those numbers even in 2030 tbh. Not without weird new rendering methods and AI upscaling, which ultimately means its not true 4K.
MicroLED on paper should be better than OLED, but will it be worth the higher cost? Remains to be seen.
8K is of zero interest since it's going to be a long long long while before anything 8K is feasible/movie whether it is movies or games.
It's a safe bet that my C9 will last a very long time with HDMI 2.1 and should take me through next gen consoles and also be a wonderful to hook my PC up to once video cards offer full HDMI 2.1 support.
Right now, I just bought a very thick 25 ft HDMI 2.0 cable so that I can connect my PC with my 2080 Ti. Because the output is limited to HDMI 2.0, I have to drop the resolution down to 1440p to get full 120Hz on my C9. However, the upscaling on the C9 is absolutely outstanding and upscaled 1440p with solid anti-aliasing looks almost indistinguishable from native 4K.
I just played Asssassins Creed Origins from PC hooked up to my C9 and it was breathtaking to do the Egyptian discovery tour.
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather keep the OLED at 4K and have full 120Hz capability, but I really don't want to limit myself to only 60Hz and get tearing when it goes above that. Tearing is much less noticeable above 120Hz, which is why I decided to keep it at 2560 x 1440. The C9 handles that resolution very well and you could easily full the untrained eye into believing it was native 4K.
Skyr
Member
Why wouldn’t you limit your framerate to 120 tho? I know tearing is less noticeable but it still is there.
The Wise Old Man
Member
Thanks man, I live in the tri-state area, so the stores you mention don’t exist here (to my knowledge). I will check out yamaha. My existing receiver is a 5.1 onkyo. Nice machine, but it doesn’t do 4K.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I'd rather enable FastSync, which always uses the last complete frame instead of forcing a new frame in there. FastSync is such an underrated feature, I'll never understand why it never gets talked about more.
EDIT: Can't determine if FastSync will work on HDMI. If not, I'll just have to see if I have horrible tearing.
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kittoo
Cretinously credulous
Can someone please explain as to why I am getting tearing when the game is barely running at 30FPS? I was running Assassins Creed Odyssey in 4K and highest settings, so obviously it taxed my card to the max and the game will run at an average 37FPS (benchmark), but sometimes when the frame rate goes even lower, I get horrible tearing.
Isnt tearing supposed to happen only at higher than monitor refresh rate frame rates? Or is it something else that I am witnessing, such as judder or something?
Isnt tearing supposed to happen only at higher than monitor refresh rate frame rates? Or is it something else that I am witnessing, such as judder or something?
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Ulysses 31
Member
Tearing can happen at any fps that isn't the monitor Hz without v-sync enabled. Stutter when the new frame isn't ready fast enough to be displayed for the screen refresh and the older frame is displayed longer than it should when v-sync is on.
Cap it to 30fps and enable v-sync if you want to play at 4k. Any game will tear without g-sync or v-sync.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Did you get a longer warranty due to the potential burn-in risk?
Ulysses 31
Member
CNET claims that Sony and LG don't cover burn-in in their warranties.
Not so long ago LG had to cut a big cheque to customers because of burn-in.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
CNET claims that Sony and LG don't cover burn-in in their warranties.
In 2013 some LG had to cut a big cheque to consumers because of burn-in.
Now THIS IS SOME BULL!