• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

The more things change: Usenet posts from rec.games.video and more


Jun 25, 2005
Nintendo delayed the fucking console!!!


" Speaking of Nintendo's U64. I wasn't surprised that NOA decided to
delay the launch, in fact, I think this was a wise decision. The third
and fourth quarters are going to be saturated with games on multiple
platforms. This is logically not the best time to release a GROUND-
BREAKING SGI system, which is destined to become the company's main
focus, with only three titles. Waiting until the dust settles and
coming out in with twelve or more titles in April is a smart decision
in my book. Especially when you take into account the price of the
Ultra (249.99 with a pack-in)."
-GAMEFAN, Volume 3, Issue 7

"Why the delay? Perhaps the real question should be WHAT'S THE HURRY?
If you were the company who controls over 90 PERCENT of the Japanese
game market and a majority of the U.S. market, would you rush out too
early with something new? So what if Sony and Sega sell a half a
million new systems. That is nothing in a long-range plan. Besides, at
$299 and $399, the competitors new systems will move slowly after the
"early adapters" buy out the first shipments. If Nintendo comes in
with a $199 price (their internal price goal...watch them announce it
at the January CES) they will catch up in just one season. Even faster
in Japan...If not instantaneous domination, if they get Square to do
FF7 for the Ultra"
-EGM, July 1995

An interview EGM had with Mr. Yusuke Hirata (Squaresoft):
EGM: "Is there any possibilities of seeing FF titles on the Ultra 64
and/or other next generation systems?"
SQUARE: "We are evaluating possibilities. On purely
hypothetical level, we think that the odds are
slightly better for the Ultra 64 than other new
game systems."
-EGM, October 1994

"For over 2 and 1/2 years LA (LucasArts) has wanted to make this new
SW (StarWars) game, but they couldn't find a platform that was POWERFUL
enough to handle it until they saw the NU64"
-Jack Sorensen, LucasArts President

"Apparently, Speilberg is way hip to the notion of producing Ultra 64
games, under his Dreamworks Interactive Entertainment (games) division
after Nintendo demonstrated the power of the Ultra to the Amblin man
behind closed doors."
-GAMEFAN, Volume 3, Issue 7
Ultra 64 - Excuses from the experts

"Well, we're very please with the Ultra 64 development schedule. Things
are only about 8 months behind schedule, which is nothing new here at
Nintendo. We're simply following the same timetable which was used for
the Super NES, and, hell, it sold like hotcakes. So, aside from forcing
the public to wait until after the Christmas buying season, there
shouldn't be any problems."

"What about the release of Sega and Sony's 32 bit systems?"

"There are other systems?"
- From an interview in _Gamez R Kewel_
vol 2.5 with an anonymous Nintendo
Of America executive

"It's a proven fact that the longer people have to wait for our product,
the more they like it. After all, tension builds excitement. By the
time March rolls around, the launch of the Ultra 64 will be about as
exciting as a sucking chest wound."

- Anonymous Developer


- B1FF

"We're really thrilled to have the opportunity to work with Nintendo in
bringing the ultimate video game experienc home. Unfortunatly, we've
been delayed due to our lack of experience with the video game industry,
but we hope to be ready to deliver the best in full-motion video games in
March. Our first project will be _Intolerance_, which will be released
on at least 5 carts, and will retail for no more than $289.95."

- Cecil B. DeMile, speaking from the grave

"I told them I simply couldn't write another Mario game. I told them I'd
rather die than give them another Mario game. They reminded me that I
had agreed to help produce at least 12 more Mario games, or forfeit my
soul. Work has been falling behind because I keep passing out from
fatigue, and have lost two fingers due to misbehavior. I beg of someone,
anyone, to put me out of my misery and end this eternal torment."

- Annonymous Japanese Game Developer

Well, there you have it folks! Solid, unbiased PROOF that the Nintendo
Ultra 64 is more than just vaporware, and that Nintendo isn't just being
lazy, pathetic, mindless corporate cogs, too busy tying themselves up in
bureaucratic red tape in their feeble attempts to deliver pie-in-the-sky
promises. Gee whiz, I simply can't wait for the Ultra 64 to be

Phil "The PlayStation is your friend" Lee
buy magazines that cover the games I want and give good
hint/tips/input. No magazine asks the tough questions and criticizes
anymore. The only magazine to do that was Video Games & Computer
Entertainment under Andy Eddy. He nailed Nintendo for their 8-bit
monopoly and corrupt business practices, which you have never addressed,
ever. I am not saying that the game companies are pure as white snow,
because they too will do what they can get away with. I am just saying
that Nintendo is not god, despite the shrine you you have errected in
your house/apt. to Mario.

As for Lucas Arts, what else are they going to say in a public
announcement when they want to make games for a system? They will kiss
the big N's big A if it means they can make games for it. I would do
exactly the same thing. Profit motivates these people, and they will say
what you and the companies want to hear. After all, Nintendo has proven
they are successful, so why not? But just because it sells and just
because it is Nintendo does not make it inherently good. They are
totally negelecting the CD venue, which will keep game prices down. I am
not buying a Saturn just because Sega makes it either, I am waiting to
see who (of Sega and Sony) puts out the games I want. It is called
waiting and thinking, instead of hyping. Try it, you'll like it. Oh, I
forgot, where is the SNES CD??? Oops! Just vapor to steal the thunder
from NEC and Sega...
: With all these systems competing for your Christmas buck, the worst you
: can do is release a new system in *APRIL*, when everyone is paying off
: their credit card Christmas purchases and worrying about taxes. Everyone
: who wanted a system this year will already have bought one, so by
: Christmas 1996 Nintendo will have an uphill battle trying to recover
: the lost market.

I would have to say by releasing it in April, Nintendo cleans house in
Christmas of 95, and then from April they have a 8 month time period to
build a strong situation leading into Christmas of 96. Better to release
it in April than Fall of 96. Why? 8 month window to release games rather
than 3 or 4.
I think you missed the point. Nintendo promissed Fall 95 and now it is
spring 96. I think at this point anyone can make a justification for
anything in this industry (why Sega released the Saturn early, why it
hurt them, Why 3DO didn't sell at first, Why sony will kick all the other
systems butts, why this blablablabla). The bottom line is that Nintendo
baited the gamers with the U64 (and many took the bait) but were never
really in a position to deliver on their promise. You can give me all the
BS that we get from Nintendo or Game Fan about how Spring is better then
Fall and Xmas and having more titles at launch is better and all but if
you believed all companies promises then you might have never bought a
system yet and you might still be on a fence somewhere.

The puzzle that is U64... (12/28/95)
Up until now, I have had total faith in Nintendo. I mean, they never do
anything bad! (besides Vitual Boy). I have looked at some pics for the
Ultra 64 (check out the Nintendo Power homepage!) and it looks pretty
amazing. I have been planning to wait for it, and ignore the temptations
of the other new systems. However something's bothering me.

I have heard that Nintendo prolonged the release date of the U64 because
they wanted to allow the companys to make more games for the new system.
This sort of makes sense, because Nintendo has a history of not putting
out products as fast as some of the other companys (Sega...?), but
because of this delay, Nintendo's products usually turn out to be better
than that of the compeditor's (Sega...?). I mean, Nintendo tried the "do
it quick, do it first" strategy with Virtual Boy, and look what happened!

Anyway, doesn't it seem funny that Nintendo chose not to have the system
available by Christmas? Having lots of games ready is a good thing, but
they could have earned millions more by having it ready at Christmas! I
want to have faith in Nintendo, I really do, but something seems amiss...

Any ideas?

Look, I don't know what's wrong with you people. I realize that
everyone has their tastes, and opinions, but this is getting
ridiculous. You try to give me one good reason why Virtual Boy is
such a TERRIBLE machine, and I'll let you alone to continue to
discourage others from a perfectly good machine.
..and if you say, "Because it's not color" then I am personally
going to come and shove my little brother's Game Gear (which he no
longer plays and would probably not miss) up your ASS!!!
Excuse me for the foul language.


I remember the time that Nintendo delayed the Super Nintendo until 1991
whereas the Genesis was released in 1989. The Super NES still did very
well, and was vastly superior IMO. So all you critics of the Ultra 64
better think twice about what you are saying, because I think the Ultra
64 is going to knock everyone's socks off!



: Once i was a nintendo fan . i played mario on my gameboy and zelda on my
: nes . Then i heard about an incredible 64 bit console which should be
: released in fall 1995 .. NOW I`AM A SONY FAN PLAYING TEKKEN ON MY COOL








Yeah, I'd like to get the 128 bit Playstation with it's 2 good games,
Tekken Version 32 and Tohshinden Version 312
I see your in '98. Can you tell me how the New Star Wars Trilogy is going?
Man, this is hilarious. Nario 64 is on my Christmas list for sure !
But hey, we've seen pictures of many nearly complete games already.
Do you know how much money Nintendo would lose if they kept postponing
the NU64 ? A lot. They're not stupid, y'know. Oh, and Panasonic going
bankrupt. They don't just make video games y'know. Many other applia-
nces crry the Panasonic name as well. And ever heard of the M2 ?
It's Panasonic's new 64 bit system scheduled for July. Just thought
I'd tell you.
*cough* *cough*.. AAAAHAhahahhahaa!#@!@# nintendo is doomed!
they are slowly but surely headed toward an elite niche market that
squeezes out developers.. that squeezes out customers.. and will
eventually suffocate itself into oblivion.!.. Bring on the lynching
of MARIO!!

Nintendo 64 DELAYED (2/2/96)
Please stop advertising the mario series. Please stop, Goddamn it. I've
been playing mario for over 10 years. I think it's time I stopped. I think
it's time you stopped. I think it's time Nintendo stopped. See, me and
the rest of the boys somehow grew up (or the rest of the population
got shorter) and we've completely lost all enjoyment for it on by the 8th
year we've been playing it; having somehow acquired a taste for some
on-screen blood and mayhem and driving a milktruck thru a crowd of
pedestrians and jumping on koopas... real koopas, endangered ones...
Damn mario games really warp you, after 10 or so years playing the same
damn plumber. I see it has had an effect on you too, seeing as your tagline
Okay, lemme get this straight...
Mario is for children because there is no blood or violence.
Therefore the Playstation is for grownups, and Nintendo is for kids.
I assume this is your position. The reason Mario is so endearing is
because it PLAYS so well. And, in fact, it requires much thought and
problem solving to find all the secrets in these games. Mario 64 is
going to be THE most advanced 3D action game EVER! But, since there
is no senseless blood and violence, I guess it's just for kids. Now
MORTAL KOMBAT, there's a game for the sopisticated adult gamer!! No
technique, no style, no imagination, but DAMMIT, I can rip a guys
spine out if I want! That's muture and adult!!

Go play your Playstation.
I sincerely hope you aren't in enrolled in any engineering or science
disciplines. You mean to tell me that uncovering a secret in Mario
requires deductive reasoning and heavy logic? I played Mario to get away
from that kind of drudgery, so believe me when I say uncovering a secret
in a Mario game requires simple trial and error.
As for Mario 64 being the most advanced? It's been done with a different
face, but with pretty much all the basic elements: Jumping Flash for PSX.
The machine it will run on is probably the most advanced, but not the
game. I ask you to mention one innovative feature incorporated in Mario 64.
Please, don't use the term "grew up" for yourself as to imply maturity
-- although it's nice to see that you can channel your psychotic urges
through videogames. But don't you think that the gory stuff gets
pretty tired pretty soon without good gameplay? ROTT was good for
about an hour -- but after you got through killing people every which
way, it just got monotonous. And I stopped playing MK3 after seeing
all the fatalities (besides, the SNES version is just TOO HARD). If
blood and gore is all you want out of a videogame, there's plenty of
it out there (in fact, I blame it on people like you that there is so
much). I want real gameplay -- not pointless violence. And I don't
think I'm alone.
You are a machine hog -- the type who plays a single player RPG while
other people look on in envy. This I don't like. Very anti-social. I like
to share the machine with other people, and this is where I get the most
fun out of it. You can't effectively take turns playing an RPG game, can you?
This is where the violent games come in. When someone get snuffed, you
can just say: "Alright, my turn!" I guess you can say this about Mario,
but let's be real -- all the Mario games on Nintendo's hardware play
pretty much the same, nothing innovative, nothing new -- find someone
your age who still plays it and you'll see they are in short supply. Do
you play alone most of the time?


Sep 17, 2009
Complaining about too many Mario games in 1995.....I wonder how that individual felt in 2005, or 2012....


Aug 22, 2012
This made me LOL.



Jan 12, 2012
BC Canada

I wish I could start all of my NeoGAF posts with bold statements like this.

Complaining about too many Mario games in 1995.....I wonder how that individual felt in 2005, or 2012....

Back then there were a lot of Mario related games in production...

Mario's Picross - Game Boy
Mario's Tennis - Virtual Boy
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island - SNES
Mario's Super Picross - SNES
Mario Clash - Virtual Boy
Virtual Boy Wario Land - Virtual Boy

Super Mario RPG - SNES
Super Mario 64 - Nintendo 64
Mario Kart 64 - Nintendo 64

But nothing that can quite compare to 2005, or even 2004 for that matter.



is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Jul 26, 2004
Long Island, NY
Does anybody know if any developers ever posted on Usenet back then? A lot of developers post here on GAF, but were there any devs on Usenet? Usenet was basically the GAF of the 80s and 90s after all. :p

Back in my Usenet days (I'm in this thread somewhere, btw :p ) I remember seeing Vic Ireland of Working Designs fame posting on there. I also got some shit from Tommy Tallarico (musician) back in the day for complaining about the Tales of Destiny J-pop intro song getting cut for the US version :p


Jun 2, 2015
Portland, Oregon, United States
Back in my Usenet days (I'm in this thread somewhere, btw :p ) I remember seeing Vic Ireland of Working Designs fame posting on there. I also got some shit from Tommy Tallarico (musician) back in the day for complaining about the Tales of Destiny J-pop intro song getting cut for the US version :p

Getting called out by Tommy Tallarico on the Internet? That's quite the experience. :p


May 29, 2013
You are a machine hog -- the type who plays a single player RPG while
other people look on in envy. This I don't like. Very anti-social. I like
to share the machine with other people, and this is where I get the most
fun out of it. You can't effectively take turns playing an RPG game, can you?
This is where the violent games come in. When someone get snuffed, you
can just say: "Alright, my turn!" I guess you can say this about Mario,
but let's be real -- all the Mario games on Nintendo's hardware play
pretty much the same, nothing innovative, nothing new -- find someone
your age who still plays it and you'll see they are in short supply. Do
you play alone most of the time?


Aug 22, 2012
True or not, right or wrong, this has got to be the most critical review of OutRun's graphics on Saturn that exists on usenet and the internet as a whole.


Before I begin my review of Outrun, I would like to say that
I am a HUGE fan of the arcade game. Ever since 1986,
I have been playing this game religiously and have owned every version
of the game, from SMS, to GG, to Genesis. I have actually finished
this game in the arcade many times (but with the same route, I can
never master the "desert" stage"). Therefore, I might be a bit more
picky than your casual arcade goer who enjoys the game but isn't a
fanatic! :)

Last year, I read that Rutubo was going to port this game to the 32X
after 2 great ports (Afterburner & Space Harrier) of older arcade
titles, I was delighted but Sega dashed my hope by cancelling the title
due to 32X's poor sales. But, Sega redeemed themselves by releasing a
great version of the arcade game on OUR machine, the Sega Saturn.

Graphics: 8/10
This is where I have the most problem with the game, it is NOT arcade
One would expect that given the power of the Saturn, a 100%
port would be EASILY obtainable. But, such is not the case.
There are missing billboards that I clearly remembered in various
The overall color/brightness of the game seems to be
different than the arcade. For example, there are 2 stages that
takes place around dusk/sunset and they were quite dark in the arcade.
In this version, everything seems *alot* brighter. The roadside
objects are alot more pixellated than I remembered it. In fact,
I am sure that they are not as good as the arcade. If you don't
believe me, check out the "houses" at the end of stage one (invariably,
you will hit them! :) I have seen those in the arcades too many times,
so I can attest to these. :)

Also, the backgrounds doesn't seem as sharp as the arcade. I can't
confirm this though until I go to find another Outrun machine.

But, don't forget, I AM nitpicking. After all, for the most part,
you are driving really fast and the scenery just whizzed by. For
the casual Outrunners, I don't think you would notice...

Sound: 8/10
I would have rated it to a 9 because in addition to the original 3
music tracks, they rearranged them and allow you to switch them
in the options screen. But, the engine sound is EXTREMELY annoying,
in fact, I don't remember hearing anything so irritatin in the arcades.
I looked for a switch to turn it off, but you can't. You will get
used to it though b/c I hardly noticed it anymore, since I concentrate
on getting a good laptime.

Control: 10/10
Dead on. It is a little loose but I know the arcade game is the same.

Playability: 9.5/10
This is very the game shines. It is a very straightforward racer,
there are so many cars in the later stages that it will literally
make you scream "unfair". Add to the imaginative stages (albeit
a bit short comparing to current crop of racers), superb music, you
have a winner here. Only problem is that I noticed the game is more
forgiving than the arcade counterpart. For example, when you let go of
the gas pedal, this version slows down quite a bit very quickly,
whereas, in the arcade, you have to let go alot sooner and brake more.
Overall, a great job but I would like to see it improved just a little

Btw, there are 4 difficulty levels (I think) with options to make the
cars behave even harder (blocking you). It is a tough game but you
always feel like you have a fighting chance (signs of a great game).

Overall: 9/10
I was expecting a carbon copy of the arcade game, so I was a bit
disappointed by the slight loss of quality in the graphics department
(and that super-annoying engine sound). I believe that the reason
for this is that Sega wanted the ENTIRE game to load into Saturn's
limited ram and some objects have to be cut/reduced in quality to fit.

The music (I believe) is played off the CD's, so, in effect, the game
never loads after the initial bootup. I wished that Sega would have
given us a true "perfect" version of the game and load each stage WHILE
you are driving in Y-split at the end of each section.

Having said that, this game is phenomenal, and it inspired so many
other great racers (recent example is Cruisin' USA) and giving the
player a choice on where he/she wants to go is a superb idea. Well

The Japanese/Overseas options dictate how each of the different stages
(except stage 1, it always start with "Coconut Beach") are arranged.
For example, in the Overseas version, the left choice of stage 2 is Big
Gate and the right choice is "Walls"; while in the Japanese version,
left is "Wheat Field" and right is "Cloudy MOuntain" (which is actually
one of the 3 stages).

Try not to use the brake at all, you rarely need it (and if you do, it
is probably too late). Just ease up on the pad. I haven't tried this
game with the wheel yet and would like someone to give me any feedback
on it.

Btw, there is a catalog of upcoming Sega Ages games and I see no sign
of Power Drift (one of my fave racer as well) and Galaxy Force.
Instead, they showed some really really stupid looking games that I
don't believe they were released over here at all. I think Sega is
stupid, why bother to redo Space Harrier/Afterburner (32X versions were
good enough for me) and release stupid titles when perfectly great
games like Power Drift, Enduro Racer, Galaxy Force, Quartet are ALL

Thanx for reading and please post here or email me for ANY

Outrun King,


Feb 10, 2014
Amazing thread.

Imagine gaming forum historians decades from now (will there ever be such a thing?) having to sort through the likes of gamefaqs and others.


Jun 7, 2014
Russian Federation
Glad to see us nerds being the same throughout the ages. Now let's hope that, in 20 years, someone will dig ninjablade's posts and publish them on whatever will be on the Internet in 2030s.


May 12, 2009
Vice City
^hopefully they'll dig up my predictions of the WU selling at least half the GC, for posterity

also, i need to sign things "OutRun king" more often


Aug 24, 2012
Nothing like some vintage console wars.

This is great, thanks for the effort.


Mar 25, 2010
Great stuff EmCee, and to future gaming historians out there, raglabamadoochiorus. See how your text search handles that, troglodytes


Aug 31, 2011
I have thousands and thousands of posts from video game forums on AOL in the 90s. Maybe tens of thousands. I wish I knew of a way to put all online. It wouldn't surprise me if I was the only one to have any of those posts. If I get hit by a car tomorrow, all that history dies with me.


As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Mar 7, 2009
I have thousands and thousands of posts from video game forums on AOL in the 90s. Maybe tens of thousands. I wish I knew of a way to put all online. It wouldn't surprise me if I was the only one to have any of those posts. If I get hit by a car tomorrow, all that history dies with me.

AOL message boards were vibrant, totally cut off from the rest of the internet, and seem to have disappeared entirely.

Make a web site, why not?


Jun 25, 2005
Hilarious to see the parallels to the NX :D Are there archives of the time during the constant delays of OoT lke with Zelda U now?

Zelda 64 Release Date on N64??!!! (7/23/97)
I can't believe I read this...

Mr. Miyamoto, the legend behind the Mario series as well as countless other
classics (including Zelda) recently explained that a U.S. conversion of
Zelda 64 would take no more than four months to complete. Assuming this is
true (and no Nintendo delays interrupt) the game could hit shelves as early
as April 98.
(from N64.com)

This is the game that was supposed to come out Christmas '96, then with the
64DD in early 97, then to save time, cartridge format in Sept 97. Now it
takes 4 months to translate a game that has been in production for how many
years? Here is a hint Miyamoto, try doing converting to English at the same
time, it saves a whole bunch of time. You may even be able to release it at
the same time as the Japan version! Wheee! The 'as early as April 98' line
makes me regret buying a N64. It is like it is expected. Well if it is
that late, they can shove it, Christmas 97 should be the maximum delay time.
If it is released in April 98, it better be a pack in with the 64DD. How
long has this thing been 70% done?

While I couldn't find more about Zelda specifically, I did find a lot more about the N64 delay, and the 64DD delay!

[U64] Message for ALL r.g.v.nintendo (5/6/95)

OK, now that that is out, I would like to say that the news of the
Ultra64's delay is damned annoying and damned depressing. I'm still
skeptical as to the truth behind this statement, so I suggest that we all
wait until E3 to see what happens. Anyway, the important thing is that
if it is true and Nintendo is really planning on setting us back 6
months, then I'd like to know who else would join me in a boycott of ALL
Nintendo products. I understand that I have an obligation to change my
sig to some degrading name and so forth if N doesn't keep with their
plans, and I plan on following through with the deal, and I also urge the
few others who took part in the bet to do their share and stand by their
word. However, this does not keep me from protesting the absolute puss
that has been thrown at us by Nintendo. There is bound to be a good
reason for the delay, but it is not enough. Some people like me have
supported the U64 through countless flames, but I will be damned if I
will sit back and let Nintendo treat us like some subordinates and expect
us to buy their machine in a year. Nintendo, if you are listening, then
it is imperative that you listen to what I say, b/c I am very serious.
It is bad enough that we have to wait another 6 months, but at least
making a public posting explaining the reason for the delay, and future
plans in detail. I don't think that it is fair that we have to wait any
longer than we have already. I'd rather give Sony my money and make them
a video game giant than wait around for another few months to get your
machine. Anyone else in on this with me?

PS: I think most of you agree that it is Nintendo's obligation to
explain the cause of the delay in detail publicly on the net and also to
tell us what they have planned for the 96' release. In the following
months, they will then have to keep us tuned in to accurate specs and
other important information on the ensuing developments of the machine.
Damn, I hate being wrong.

I really see no reason for a boycott. If you do boycott them, then when
the Ultra 64 finally does come out, you'll miss on all those awesome
sequels. Plus, you'll miss out on all the amazing SNES games this fall.
I was very pissed at Nintendo yesterday, but since then, reality set in.
Maybe there is some kind of problem? Maybe they just wouldn't be able
to get more than 4 games out this year? Who knows.. But, hey, look on
the bright side... I can now buy all those great SNES games coming out
this fall (Diddy Kong, KI?, Rendered Zelda?, EWJ2, Chrono Trigger, Mana II,
Evermore, etc, etc.) The two new ACM games at E3 is said to have grahpics
better than any other game currently out, 16, 32-bit or otherwise.
>The V.Boy is coming out this summer. Nintendo is going to want to milk
>us of money for that first before they bring out the Ultra.

You hit the nail right on the head. Why bring out a new system when
they can squeeze every last penny out of the SNES and maybe some money
off of a cheezy, one-colored Virta-Flop system?
WHO in their right mind would buy a Virtually Crapboy?!?!?!
I've just got a few things to say on this subject... things that are
all **IMHO**.

First, I think that most developers have known about this release date
for 3-4 weeks atleast. Why do I say this? Well, every company I've talked
to about U64 software has given me a March/April release date... two
good examples are MK3 (based on the revised chipset with 6 new characters)
and GameTek's Robotech game.

Second, eventhough I was somewhat stunned by this announcement, it
doesn't quite surprise me. At WCES 95, Nintendo told us flat out that
they are planing for the Virtual Boy to be their new big seller, and that
the U64 was secondary... and as you can see, the VB will be out this
year right on time.

Third, Nintendo did this exact same thing with the SNES, making us wait
over a year, then released the machine ahead of the announced date.
Maybe they will do this again and we'll actually see the unit in February?

and Fourth, Nintendo never made an *Official* written announcement of
a Ultra 64 release date (atleast from what I've seen)... everything
was "speculation", or "if everything goes according to plans...".

One of the things we've speculated at around here is the possiblity
that Nintendo eluded to a Fall release in order to force the hand
of the other console makers into pushing their machines out... and this
has worked, every company has now promised release dates that will have
units out with limited software and if they back out, they're likely to
get flamed as bad as Nintendo. Now, Nintendo can sit back, and release
a machine with 20+ titles that have all been subjected to internal prior
review (ie: 20+ top line titles theoretically), and say, "see we released
our machine with killer software options instead of making you wait for
the good games" (of course this is IMHO and don't you forget it!)

On the lower side, I can't believe they're even considering KI for the
SNES... The whole point of KI was that NO OTHER SYSTEM could do this
game except for the U64. If it comes out on the SNES, then wether it's
true or not, this gives the impression that anyone's system can do it...
I personally think this is an even stupider move than putting off the
U64 till next year.

Also, in regards to E3... Trip's gotta be patting himself on the back
for doing the early press release eventhough it really didn't say anything.
You just know there will be people who think Nintendo is delaing due to
that M2 showing. (I don't because I don't think that's Nintendo's style)

Another thing of note... from what we've been able to pry out of the
various companies regarding E3 console showings...

Sony... will have *no* US unit on display, since the machine isn't ready.
They will only be using Developers consoles and Japanese consoles
for show... but tons of US release software!

3DO... again, no actual working M2 units on display, just development
platform output... (this could change apparently, but this is the
news as I had it via last week)

Saturn..no confirmation as to wether or not there will actually be a US
model of the console at the show...

I don't know how much this means to alot of you, but it looks like this
E3 show is really going to be Software Only, with everyone showing off
what they *plan* to have available hardware wise...

oh well, that's my 2 bits on this whole situation.

My opinions are mine along with my spelling errors, and may not be those
of the rest of the Game Zero Magazine staff.
I've owned all of the previous Nintendo products, but my dollar stops
there. I was highly anticipating the Robotech game that was supposedly
coming out for the U64, but with it taking a year to come out, I will
choose an alternative that is REAL, be it the PSX, Saturn or even
possibly the M2.

Cry Babies (5/9/95)
My goodness! This newsgroup is filled with people acting like a rich
Uncle just wrote them out of their will. Lets look at some realities:

1. The U64 is NOT delayed buy a year. It was originally due out in late
November. So assuming that it comes out in early april 96,
it will be 4 1/2 months late. Not a really long time at all.
2. Ok, so Nintendo misses the 95 christmas season. They are probably
still going to put out a title or two that will look and play far
better than other next gen systems for the SNES. They aren't going to
ignore us.
3. None, I repeat NONE of the new systems look posied to take over the world.
Sony and Saturn are both going to be over priced this christmas season,
Few if any of the games look like a must have. Like the 3DOn't, I just
don't see those systems flying off the shelves.
4. The only systems that could hurt Nintendo's U64 in truth are the 32x and
the Jag. By hurt I mean this: Parent goes to buy their 10 year old a new
system, they ignore the over priced systems and look at whats in their
budget. The Parent buys a Jag and when the U64 comes out, the
parents ignore the pleas since they just bought them a new system.
5. Nintendo so far is the only company with the BALLS to say, "Sorry,
we're not ready yet". Did atari do this? No, they released the system
with 3 games and a demo and that was it for months on end. Plus what did
come out right after that was quite poor and did not reflect the
abilities of the system but the programer's inexperance with the
the chip set. Are you really in such hurry for the U64 for Nintendo
to do that to you?
6. Most gamers believe it or not haven't heard when the U64 was due out
in the first place. Here on the net, we get updates every hour, the
rest of the world waits for the EGM rumor mill. So this delay
isn't going to affect them one bit.
7. With the delay, there WILL be more and BETTER games.
8. Its only a hobby. Go ahead and buy another system. The U64 will still
come out and millions of people will still buy it. I'm probably
going to pick up a Jag now, but next summer, I'll pick up the U64 as
9. If you feel "betrayed" by Nintendo, your loyality will surely be destroyed
by every other company. Sega has over hyped theCD and 32x, th 3DO
has yet proven itself and developers are leaving left & right,
Sony tends to support odd formats (betamax, minidisk) for a short
while and then quickly lets them fade away, andatari.. well we know
about atari....
10.Its more fun to argue about which non-existing system is better then
ones we can play with. :)
> 11. Personally speaking, I appreciate the loyalty (that's
> right--loyalty) that Nintendo has shown it's customers. They have never
> asked us to upgrade the hardware, buy gadgety-gizmos to plug into the
> console or space-suit 3D glasses thingies to wear. They just keep coming
Ummmmm....Virtual Boy? From what I understand, that's part of the
rationale that the Nintendo big-wigs have stated for delaying the U64 (the
other part being to keep focused on the SNES for a while longer). Have
you seen what this thing looks like?

Sega has never "asked" anyone to upgrade, whatever that means. They
provide upgrades as a service to their consumer as their own special way
of showing they care. Nintendo shows they care by delaying there
Ultra-hot, mega-cool, shouldn't-be-missed technology. Everybody has their
own way of showing they care :)

> 12. It takes a really long time for the software developers to fully
> utilize the hardware. It seems that the technology is never caught. The
> longer you have to work with something, the more creative you're gonna be
> with it. (Case in point--the Atari 2600. By the time that baby was
> finally put to rest, the quality of the games had improved tremendously)

So we should wait for a new technology like a fine wine? Sorry, wines get
better with age but sadly technology simply does not. It's a fine line
that these companies must walk because of the medium they work with. One
strategy that works well against this trend is upgrades. The other
approach is to throw out the old and come up with something entirely new.

Problem is, the U64 seems to have been on the drawing board since 1993
and, from this date, we will not see it on these shores for another year.
(based on official statements which prove to be false). As good as the
technology might be, do you really want something that has been on the
drawing board for a duration approaching three years? Why not release it
now? Ballsy as some might think Nintendo is to hold off and wait for an
allegedly killer opening library of games, this fine wine approach to
video gaming is simply stupid. What will be the U64 lifespan once it's

The video game makers trap themselves because they thrive on an industry
driven by the visceral adrenaline rush of action video gaming. They gear
their games to leave the consumer for more, faster, harder, louder, etc.
- it's why eye candy with no substance like DKC and KI do so well. Yet
when they want to release a new system, they consistently have to ask
their adrenaline-addicted consumer base to wait and be patient. Don't
these companies realize that they weened their consumer base off of
patience a LONG time ago?

This is what Nintendo gets for the delay (2/12/96)
Do you think Square would have left Nintendo if they hadn't delayed
their syatem? I think square would be 100% with Nintendo if the delay
would have never occurd. Now that RPG's are the fastest growing type
of games in America ,the NU64 has now just lost their major source of
good RPG's. Now Nintendo has the burden of the RPG market which is NOT
good. For SNES they only released 1 Zelda!!!!! They could not supply
us Americans with our RPG craving. Nintendo I hope your happy.......
you just lost your BIGGEST ALLY!!!

CR-ROMS SUCK!!! They are slow and are heavly RAM dependent! I shoul
know I have 3 of them, my SNES is way faster than my PlayStation
(load time) and computer (quad speed CD-ROM)! All I have ever seen a
cd used for was music, and FMV! I would much rather have a 64Mb game
that plays for 60 hours, than a 7 cd game that only plays for 2!
When the 64DD comes out, it will be over 3 times as fast as the
Playstation or Saturn cd drives and 2 times as fast as my computer,
and they will probaly put stupid FMV in ther games on this. Think of
it this way, 64DD 1 meg per second (comparable to an older hard disk,
or a 8 speed cd-rom) vs. 300K per second. PlayStation has 2
megabytes of ram, Saturn has 2.5 megabytes, N64 has 4 megabytes of
ram. More ram means more detailed graphics! Plus more data can be
available for processing at a time too! Unless the Playstation and
Saturn get a ramboost, there lack of memory, and slow storage media
will show, I predict by this time next year, cd-roms won't be looked
at the same way anymore.

[NU64 delay] Why are people so upset? (5/7/95)
After reading posts about the delay, it seems to me that a large number of
people aren't just disappointed, they're pissed. For some people, pissed
isn't even an adequate description. My question is: What's the big deal?

I've always been a bit skeptical about the NU64, although I believe that it
exists (ie. it's not vaporware). With SGI designing the thing, I've always
considered the possibility that it would meet the amazing specs they've given
out. I wasn't actually planning on buying one immediately, since the first
wave of announced games didn't appeal to me. However, I expected that I'd
eventually buy one, due to games that I would expect on the NU64 (Ultra
Starfox, Ultra Metroid, etc. These aren't real games, just games I'd expect
to see).

Now that Nintendo announced the delay, people have gotten rabid. People who
used to say the NU64 would kick ass are saying it's vaporware. Again, what's
the big deal? Sure, Nintendo lied. Sure, Nintendo broke promises. Sure,
Nintendo hasn't shown us anything solid. This is Nintendo we're talking about;
What did you expect?

I think the delay may even be a good thing. They'll have a host of good games
ready and more on the way. They wouldn't want to repeat what Sega did with
the 32X and release a couple decent games, then have a long wait for the next
games. The only problem with this is that the Saturn and PSX will be released
with a lot of good games and more on the way too, but 4 months earlier.
That's a pretty good question, and the more I think about it, the more
I find myself saying..."so what...". Well, here's my best explanation.
I will wait the 6 months--and I still think it will kick ass when it
comes out. But it's a goddamn kick in the face to see that Nintendo
doesn't care at all---they have claimed for about a year and a half that
the NU64 would be out in Fall '95, then they decide at the last minute to
hold off. I see it this way----its a matter of trust and betrayal. I
trusted that the big "N"'s word was the final word, but now, who the fuck
knows..(I'm not upset at you, so don't take this personally) What Nintendo
has done is to say...."we don't trust you guys...if we put the Ultra out
there and a new Diddy Kong game and a Rendered Zelda for the SNES...you
won't buy the SNES games. So you know what...we're not going to give you
a choice. Either you buy our new ACM games or you wait 'till April"
That just seems VERY wrong to me. They're obsessed with being the next
fad instead of putting out kickass hardware/games.
What do you think?


Jun 25, 2005
64DD Delay (5/31/97)
well, have at 'er again, PSXers. How sad. There are two ways to look
at it. First, and easiest, it's a bad thing. Obviously, everything
is going to be late. Second, it's the same. Everything is going to
be late, but there will be more selection when it's FINALLY released.
With that much time the late developers could have games done for it.
Miyamoto's game will probably be done, Ogre Battle? Maybe... SFIII?
I hope not, but some hope... Others? M:I's Add-on? I should think
so. Oh well, the delay was expected, or more correctly (less so
grammatically, however) not unexpected, but it's still a bad thing,
IMHO. How did Tolkein put it? "...Like a Summons long expected, yet
dreadful when it finally comes..." Something like that, anyway.

64DD Delay=GOOD (9/25/97)
I have to agree with www.n64.com's recent editorial that stated that the
64DD may not be released for some time. Why would Nintendo bring it out
when they are already doing so well with cartridges??? The smart thing
to do would be to wait until the next new system comes out and then
bring out the 64DD to counter it, they could use the 64DD to totally
upgrade your N64. Why wouldn't Nintendo just wait like that and when
the Sega Dural comes out they could just bring the 64DD on with a bunch
of low priced titles and writeability. Plus, who knows, maybe they
could throw even more RAM in there and another processor or something.
If you think about it, it really wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to
bring out the 64DD in 1998. The competition will be just warming up
with the next 64-bit system in fall/winter 1998, so why jump the gun
when it isn't quite needed? What do you guys think???
don't think that an upgrade will cut it. Nintendo is off the cycle with
everyone else. By the time another system comes out it will probably have
a lot more graphic power than the N64. Why should I buy an add on that
only gives me a cheaper, flexible data medium and ramps the processing
power up a bit when I can get something that can do all that and better?
I'm sorry even though I love my N64 I think that Nintendo made a mistake
using the cart. Not because it is a cart but because of the impact it has
on people. After seeing what has happened, it would have been better if
Nintendo would have released the N64 with a CD-ROM or even the 64DD built
right in even if it would have cost more. It is obvious that more people
would have accepted the system especially 3rd party developers like square.
(Even though I don't really like RPG's.) I hope that the next generation
of more powerful graphic game systems will also have a sort of rumble pak
and analog controls because after playing the N64, everything else now
feels like it is lacking something.

I don't know how possible this is because of the introduction of the 64DD,
but If Nintendo released a new system around Christmas of 1999 with twice
the power of the N64 but had the same instruction set and layout as the
N64, more memory, CD-ROM based, an internal clock, used a cart to store or
play 8 - 32 meg worth of game data, and had the same controller and the
N64, Nintendo would have a runaway hit. It could do everything that the
N64 with a 64DD could do but better. Using the same instruction set and
memory layout would mean backward compatibility with N64 cart games.
Nintendo could keep their ROM fabs. It would be kind of like a 386
computer to a Pentium MMX computer. It would be backward compatible with
no shortage of games but since it is a new system, new games would come on
CD-ROMs. Any game could use any sort of CD-ROM/cart combo. Carts could be
used to play or store. Sony or Sega could do the exact same thing with
their systems. Just a thought.

I think that an upgrade can cut it as long as Nintendo uses the upgrade right.
I mean, are there limits to how much you can upgrade a system? Not really.
They could throw the 64DD out there with dual 64-bit processors and 64 megs of
RAM. I didn't say the cart idea was good, I just stated that the delay of the
64DD would be a good thing. Look how good Nintendo is doing now, why split the
market with an add-on device at this point? Why EVER split the market with an
add-on device??? Maybe even bringing out the 64DD is a bad idea. Look at what
the N64 can do with only 64meg of memory, then with Zelda it will be up to
256meg, all at a reasonable cost. Basically, the N64 can do quite a bit with
only carts, why split the market???

My theory of the 64DD and Nintendo (3/17/98)
So, why are there so many people who hate the Nintendo 64? The
answer given is that the games are not good enough, or there is not
enough good ones. Remember the stink people raised about Mario Kart 64,
Diddy Kong Racing, the ending for Super Mario 64, and now, the brevity
and simplicity of Yoshi's Story?
So Nintendo is working on the 64DD. Good. But the unit is shrouded
in secrecy. We will probably see it in its glory in May at E3 in
Remember when Nintendo of Japan rereleased Super Mario 64 and
Waverace with Rumble Pak support? They said all they had to do was add
one or two lines of code, a very easy process.
Alright, here's where I blow your mind-What if Nintendo purposely
made the games short and sweet because they are making UPGRADES to these
very same games as we speak! They are blah-blah-blahing about their
ability to upload and download data from DD and back. How hard could it
be to make the expansion packs for these games? I know, the market
probably couldn't support the need for the extras in already released
games, but come on, Nintendo MUST be hearing the complaints of owners,
and something's got to give. But hey, neat idea, eh?

DD Delayed Again???? (ign64.com (3/31/98)
This really shouldn't come as a surprise....you can't have a
successful add-on if you don't have a strong userbase to start with in
the first place(Japan) .


Big friggin suprise there...they thing ain't gonna see the light o day
no time soon. This is the big N doing what it does best...smoke and
mirrors baby, smoke and mirrors.....

Take your pick on which answer you want to respond to: :)
Oh, it's obvious what's going on..... I just think it's remarkable that
Nintendo can delay the hell out of stuff that's crucial (N64, Zelda, DD,
Europe stuff), or is the DD crucial or not, I suppose that's another
question. I mean, people are seriously pissed off about this crap. I know
why they do it, but don't you think they'd do something about it?
I've always felt that in the case of attitude, Nintendo is a bit like
Microsoft. They are going to do things THEIR way...come hell or high
water. You either like it...or you get the hell out of the way. This
attitude seems to go all the way up the corporate ladder at both

Is the 64DD crucial....depends....personally I think the N64 CAN do
without...BUT it's going to once again, take Nintendo hand-holding
it's 3rd parties along to show them what the current system is capable

I've always felt it sounded a bit stupid that Nintendo was going to
"save" it's system in Japan by producing an add-on. Yes there are
some great benefits to the add-on. But they always speak about the
untapped potential of the base unit....dammit stop talking and START

The 64DD Delayed...Big Surprise? (4/4/98)
>Well, I'm sure you've seen the reports at the IGN sites...the 64DD has
>been delayed...from a June released date(Japan), to "within a year".

The IGN sites said "within THE year". IOW, "sometime in '98".

If the reason the 64DD is being delayed to get more software ready for
it, I'm all for that. I think Nintendo learned it's lesson with the
launch of the N64 in Japan and found that going without a new release
for 3 months can indeed hurt.

Now, knowing how Nintendo likes to spread it's big releases about a
month apart (or so) to not hamper sales, anyone think that *maybe*,
just maybe Nintendo may try a 1-2 punch this Christmas, with both
Zelda and the 64DD??? I've got a feeling that we'll see Zelda as the
big Holiday seller for Nintendo and we won't see the DD until very
early '99.

I think we'll know more about when to expect the DD here when E3 comes
around; and if nothing is said there, you know they're gonna have to
feature it at the show in November, which would mean it definitely
won't be here until '99.

Also, on Zelda being pushed back to "this fall" in Japan, does anyone
think that Nintendo is planning a simultaneous Japan/U.S. launch of
the game???

Just a few thoughts...

64DD delayed until June '99 in Japan.... (8/31/98)
I might be the only one, but I stopped caring about the god forsaken thing
long ago.
> Nintendo blames the
> delay on lack of finished software.

Has that ever stopped them before? Sniff Sniff....


Jun 26, 2014
i love this thread! so glad to see it bumped

If the reason the 64DD is being delayed to get more software ready for
it, I'm all for that. I think Nintendo learned it's lesson with the
launch of the N64 in Japan and found that going without a new release
for 3 months can indeed hurt.

the more thing changes, etc.


Aug 24, 2012
This such beautiful counter evidence for anyone who thinks gamers are entitled or miserable "today."

Really incredible.


Jun 25, 2005
4. The only systems that could hurt Nintendo's U64 in truth are the 32x and
the Jag. By hurt I mean this: Parent goes to buy their 10 year old a new
system, they ignore the over priced systems and look at whats in their
budget. The Parent buys a Jag and when the U64 comes out, the
parents ignore the pleas since they just bought them a new system.

I just wanted to say that I skimmed over this part while copying it and seeing it on its own is such a treat that it deserves some attention to itself.


Aug 31, 2011
This is nostalgic. I wasn't there on usenet. I was on AOL. But we talked the same and used the same terminology as those posts. "N64ers" and "PSXers" in every other post.

I sent a angry long letter to Nintendo in 1995 or 1996 for sticking with cartridges and driving Square to Playstation.


May 29, 2013
I love seeing this thread bumped. There are a lot of references to machines I've never heard of, but it's always interesting to see attitudes towards companies and their future.

I can't imagine how many posts you've had to sift through!


Jan 16, 2007
Unpara//e/d Power

I choose to believe that this guy is just really bad at using sed.

I feel I should find some extracts from the era I was hanging around uk.games.video.misc for a viewpoint from my neck of the woods. We were always so much more refined than those rec.games vulgarians.

Edit: Wait, the occasional ugvm magazine is still a thing? I didn't know!


Jun 8, 2004
Portland, OR
Man I was a r.g.v.n warrior way back in the day (1995-96), and doubtless my posts are still in the archive. I'm scared to look because I was probably a moron.


Feb 17, 2011
Kitchener, ON
Man I was a r.g.v.n warrior way back in the day (1995-96), and doubtless my posts are still in the archive. I'm scared to look because I was probably a moron.
Never hurts to look back on what you wrote back then with some fresh perspective.
You can pick up on what posting tendencies have surprisingly stuck around and which ones you can't believe you adopted back in your Internet infancy.

I just did a quick search of my own posts. I had no idea I was so active in the Breath of Fire SNES community back in the summer of 1994. I barely remember playing that game.


Jul 31, 2010
Ooo I've just thought of something. I wonder if these old posts will have reactions to segas 32x and sonys £299.


Jun 23, 2014
It's just that every new (arcade) game being released is YET ANOTHER
spinoff of that entire Teenage Mutant Ninja Gaiden Ikari Double Dragon
Dudes Warriors theme and I have HAD IT with these bullsh*it excuses for
"arcade" machines. Yea there's a *decent* game here and there that gets
released like Smash T.V. and Hard Drivin' (which is more than just decent)
but even these have obvious faults which detract from thier actual
funness factor. I've only played Smash T.V. once and I finished it that one
time (no, not the complete Pleasure Dome finish). It cost me about $15.-
between my friend and me, but the point is that there's really no incentive
for me to shell another $30- or $40- bucks into this game just to find
the lousy pleasure dome. Hard drivin' is great but for 75 cents a pop
my wallet doesn't last as long as the thrill (i.e. I'd rather play pinball
for an hour than play Hard Drivin for 10 minutes).

This one got me. I think I've been fighting that 'dumping quarters" fight for 25 years now. The idea is that you practice and eventually can go through the game with 1 coin, rather than pumping them into it until you see the end. The shmups genre gets knocked down all the time for this.

Anyways-this thread/that group is a gold mine that really shows how similar some peoples attitudes are to those attitudes from (20!) years ago. Amazing. Spending time digging through these now.

(also- Nintendo Fuckers haha)


Jun 25, 2005
Is the Saturn REALLY released? (5/15/95)

I was told by EB's, Babbages, and Toys-R-Us that the units they sold were
"pre-release" models and that they weren't expecting more units. Is this
true? Many people have mentioned July as the real release date.

Just curious....
> No, the Saturn really is released. But why are you asking this here.
> Most people here don't care or, like myself, will just wait for the vastly
> superior PS-X to come out. Trust me. I've seen the Saturn and it's
Huh? In what respects? Care to qualify your statement there with a
few pieces of factual data? Vastly superior in what sense? Maybe the
PSX has the edge in total # of polygons, but don't forget: there are
lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics. Are you a
computer or electrical engineer with a hardware background that can
analyze what's in these boxes, or are you grandstanding with what
every manufacturer says their machine can do? Eye candy is only good
for about 5 minutes after you own the game. Then where do you go....

> really not that big of a deal.

> Rob

Obviously, you haven't OWNED a Saturn long enough to understand how good
it really is. Have you bothered PLAYING Virtua Fighter (as opposed to
watching it)? I can tell you that it plays and moves smoother than the
arcade VF with better music, although with fewer polygons. I sure didn't
notice that while I was playing. Panzer Dragoon? What does Sony have
to match that game? It runs great and is a challenging shooter, AND it
has excellent graphics. I can keep going, but it's pointless. It's a
bigger deal than you make it out to be by putting it down like that.

The point I'm trying to make is that games are meant to be played, not
just watched. Sega themselves are bringing out their arcade games on
this platform only, not PSX, not NU64, not 3DO, etc. etc. . And since
I love all of Sega's arcade titles, if I were to get a PSX, I'd never
get a chance to play them. Things can only get better for the Saturn.
And for the PSX too. They'll both do good, but one should consider
the playability issue more than the graphics issue. For me, this is
where the Saturn shines. And try telling me about a game OTHER than
Tekken, Toh Shin Den or Ridge Racer for once.
EVERYONE that has a sony and a saturn ALL say that the sony is a better
machine. It wasn't poorly designed like the sega machine. Sony took
their time and made a damn good cd-rom game machine, unlike sega who
whipped out something as fast as possible. I had also read about, and
talked to lots of game programers who say that the sony machine is much
easier to program for. Plus every 3rd party company is making games for
them except sega and nintendo. Oh yeah, don't forget that sega has DAMN
NEAR 8 game consoles to look after! Sony is really the way to go!
Yeah I was brainwashed by all the PSX people for a while, I played a
PSX and it's a great system and I actually believed all the PSX owners
saying how sucky the Saturn was...then I played some Saturn games
yesterday. Today I went and bought one :) VF, Panzer, and Daytona are
awesome. PSX and Saturn are going to ahve comparible games no matter
what some idiots keep saying.
No, please, keep going.... The thing is you can't. Yes, Panzer is a
great shooter, but it is still on rails. It is NOT the best 3D shooter
ever as some Sega fans claim.
No kidding. This only proves that for PSX/U64 fanatics, fantasy truly *is*
better than reality.
It was the EXACT same thing for me. I was totally brainwashed, and I
had even tried the import Saturns and PSXs. But then I actually rented
a Saturn last weekend with VF, Panzer and Daytona. They are superb
with absolutely incredible sound! I bought a Saturn the next day. VF
really does play better than the arcade version, and you really don't
notice the fewer polygon count. I've already played my Saturn with VF
more than I ever played my Genesis and 32X (yuck!).

Polygon "breakup" in VF? Only during some replays... the game itself
plays like a dream - who really cares about the damn replays! Panzer?
No complaints at all - and I usually don't like shooters! Daytona
"pop-up"? You only notice it when watching someone else play. It plays
FAST and is lots of fun!

And to those who think the Saturn is Ugly, has an ugly on-screen
interface... get over it! It looks fine, looks well made, the
controllers are fine. The interface? Man, you put the disk in and
press start!?! Who CARES about the bloody interface (which is just fine
by the way).

If you've actually TRIED a Saturn in your own home, hooked up to a
decent stereo system, you would probably change your tune about it
being underpowered, bad graphics, etc... The games are what make or
break a system, and these first generation Saturn games are great fun!
Well said. Nintendo sucks big-time. Have you seen their ads in Next
Generation? They'd have you believe they invented 3D... Ugh. It seems
like they want to trademark every pseudotechical term they can come up

"Through as process known as _debabelizing_, ACM..." blah blah blah.

Debabelizer (by Equilibrium) is a wonderful utility that no serious
designer should be without. Nintendo is hardly the first company to
reduce palettes.

Another thing that bugs me is that people talk about Killer Instinct
("Stupid Combo!" in crazed gutteral voice) as if it were a 3D game and not
a crappy 2D twitch-fest. Yes, the characters were 3D models at one
point. Super. That adds what to the gameplay? That's right. Nothing.
It's just a different graphic style.

P.S. Killer Instinct for GameBoy? ("...No, I think the one on the left
is Jago.")

Saturn Sucks! (5/13/95)
Hi Guys!

Just got my SegaSaturn yesterday from Toys'r'us in San Francisco. I
thought I would enjoy it with some of my friends after beer and pizza, but
the games really sucked big time. Along with the console, I've purchased
Datona USA, Clockwork Knight, and WorldWide Soccer. We all were cussing
all the way when we were playing with this peice of crap. In my opinion,
Saturn is merely an enchanced version of SegaCD+ 32x with the capability
to do some texture mapping. Virtual Fighter was disgustingly slow compared
to Tekken. And the Hitachi Risc cannot even pump the background images (
Mountains, Fixtures ) quick enough to keep up with the car in Datona USA.
Clockwork Knight was ok, but even Mario Brothers is better in terms of
playability. The video playback was so jagged which reminds me of the
original SegaCD ( of course it was a little better than the SegaCD, but it
is still highly pixelated ) I really wonder why this system needs all the
hardware it has for its meager performance. All in all, I believe that the
Saturn is a engineering disaster and I urge you folks not to dive into one
just because of the cool ads they have on TV. Wait, I truely believe PSX
is the wave of the future! BTW, I've just returned mine for a refund
today. - SB
I bought my Saturn and returned it the next day to EB as well. The games
I bought with it were Panzer Dragoon and Daytona. While I found Daytona
to be pretty fun it's grfx were rather disappointing after playing
RR on the PSX. And i don't see how people are saying Daytona has
"more playability" than RR. I think they both have about the same
amount of playability.

Panzer Dragoon looked pretty cool but it wasn't that fun IMO. Gameplay
got boring after a while. Manuevering around feels very cumbersome
and I just don't get the adrenaline rush I expect to get from a
good shooter. To be honest, I liked Total Eclipse on the 3DO a lot
better than Panzer Dragoon. Not only did TE have awesome grfx, it
just ROCKED!

My friend in Japan is sending me a PSX so I'm happy with that. I'd
rather wait for that than waste my money on the Saturn. A
disappointing entry into the next generation buy Sega IMHO...

WSJ: US$299 Sony Playstation (5/12/95)
Todays's WSJ has yet another article on the next generation of video
consoles. Sony will be releasing their Sony Playstation system in the USA
on September 9 at a price of $299 without a game pack-in.

So, the price with a game will be commensurate with a Saturn at US$399.
THE key word here is RELATIVE:: The PSX is not some system to come in under the
$250 mark! It is going to be $360 w/1 game!

That is Relatively the same as the Saturn..$400 w/1 game!

$299 looks great,, but believe me the Sony ROM Screen isnt much fun to play!!
No kidding! Look at how many dolts Sony tricked with this. Great the
Playstation is $299...and a game is around $60-70...and the memory card
will be another 20-25. By September Sega will probably drop their price
to around $350, thus beating Sony again to the punch.

I sure hope Sony smartens up and includes a game. I'll buy it, however,
with or without one.
You have failed to resemble teh differences. I'm not forced to play a
piece of garbage game "VIRTUAL FIGHTER" and instead choose a game of my
liking not Sega's! Atleast on the Sony Playstation I can pick
Demolition Derby Challenge which is 10/10 rated game than a 5/10 one.
Atleast I get to pick a quality piece of software not a garbage one that
isn't worth $60. I'm assuming the current status when Sony releases
PSX. On the other hand Sega will probably lower their price to $299 and
remove the VF game and let US choose which game we want to play and not
SEGA'S! choosing. But I'm still going to buy the PSX because its got
that lovable LSI chip that the Saturn lacks which is the driving force
of those 3D games Toshiden and Tekken for example that make VF look like
crap. Compare Daytona Racing to demolition derbey for PSX and even
Daytonna looks like crap!
aha... but sony's exclusive deal locked-up 32 bit versions... while the
deal between acclaim and sony shut everyone (temporaily) out of MKIII, the
contract neglected to mention 64 bit systems... That's right, 3DO went
directly to Williams (who licensed it to acclaim for 32 bit who licensed
it exclusively to sony for 32 bit)... don't be surprised if an M2 version
of MKIII hits before the playstation version.

Saturn onscreen interface is ugly and disappointing (5/14/95)
The Saturn onscreen interface is a big disappointment to me.
First of all, it just LOOKS rediculous!
I'm not into the golden, spinning globe thing...
The whole display is cumbersome and looks childish.

I was expecting some cool special effects during audio CD play
back (like the 3DO's interactive colour mixer) but the Saturn
only offers two cubes that bounce and change colour to the music.

Sega really blew it here.

EA Sports Games for New systems. (5/11/95)
I've a question. What systems will EA concentrate their product
development on. For the 16 bit platform, it was obviously the Genesis,
with the Sneeze playing a ringo-like role. With the imminent
introduction of the newer systems will this practice of concentrating on
one system, with port-overs to make sure every fan has at least a chance
to buy an EA sports game continue? If someone chooses to answer
diplomatically (i.e. "EA will probably work on ALL the systems"), then I
rephrase the question to 'What system stands the greatest chance of being
adopted by EA sports as their new standard system?' I suspect it should
be the Saturn for a few reasons:

1. EA Sports' long standing relationship with Sega.
2. Saturn, as a member of the Sega line, is much more likely to be
accepted by those who are not that heavy into gaming and are wary of the
Sony and the 3DO and the mythical U64 (oh yeah, the Jag? I'm going to
bury mine and wait a couple of million years until I can reclaim it as
valuable fossil fuels); this would obviously result in more sales.

Also wondering, why EA didn't come out with a sequel for JMF for the 3DO
or any more sports games besides JMF and FIFA for the 23skidDO.

Any responses, info, or lemon harangues would be just slim jim dandy.

Saturn,only 60k textured polygons? (5/13/95)
After two years extra to design the saturn why can they sega
only manage 60,000 TEXTURED polygons. PSX can do 100,000 TEXTURED
polygons per second and 3do can do 50,000 textured polygons per second.
3do m2 add on will be 700,000 textured polygons per second. I was all
excited about getting a saturn and was at babbages untill I reviewed a
Generation article on specs and confirmed this on the net. Then I looked
the software available, three titles for saturn and the rf adapter (which
I use
on vacations in hotels) is extra for the sega saturn. The 3do sure seems
the better, logical path at this point.

Stony ramblings on Saturn, PSX, etc. (5/13/95)
At this point, the trend has been to dis the Saturn and praise the
PSX. This seems unjustified for many reasons. First off, not
many people have seen what the PSX can do, and a lot of people are
probably basing their judgements on what they see in the magazines.
Of course, I'll grant that people who have bought the imports are
legitimate critics. Anyway, what I really wanted to get into was
the competition between Sega, Sony, and Nintendo. Now, just looking at
the trend from last year, the PSX will do best in the first year or maybe

less, but the the Saturn and potentially the U64 will outdo the PSX
because the PSX technology is slightly inferior. Compare this to the
Genesis/SNES war. The Genesis did well at first because there were
a TON of good games developed quickly to support the system (ala PSX).
However, the quality of the Genesis games peaked, while the quality of
the SNES (slightly better technology) games continued to increase.
By this time, all the good games were being made for the superior SNES
because the technology allowed for it. As will be the case with Saturn/
PSX/U64. The quality of PSX games will peak before the other two systems
and the platform will not die, but rather fade to the background. I
would initially say that the U64 will succeed the most in the long run,
but I'm kina scared if the cartride/no CD Rom platform will prove to
be a mistake as games get ever bigger. With that in mind, I like the
chances of the Saturn to succeed in the long run, because it has the
storage capacity for the big games, and its hardware will be able to
outperform PSX in the future. Anyway, RE: post if any of that made any
sense. Otherwise, ignore... or whatever. Later.
Wrong. Where exactly did you get this piece of misinformation from?
The Saturn hardware superior? Hello?. Check the specs buddy.(I've studied both
systems so I know your way off.) Yes I know the Saturn has dual Hitachi's and
the Playstation has the one R3000A (which if you did your homeowork would know
is superior to both of the Hitachi's combined)...I'm not even going to mention
the rest of the PSX hardware. Care to share your 'knowledge' of both of these
systems? BTW "I heard from some guy on the net that the Saturn is better.."
does not qualify as a reliable source.
Well then from what your saying, I guess the Ultra 64 is going to be awfull.
According to Nintendos specs, the Ultra 64 can only do 100,000 texture mapped
polygons per second. That is half of Segas reported specs which is supposedly
200,000 texture/goured shaded polygons per second. The future of video games
is not going to solely be 3-D polygon games which what Sony is trying to make
people believe. If it was than Nintendo just wasted alot of money and alot of
time on a machine that isn't a polygon monster.

PSX VS. SATURN an Observation (5/13/95)
Hmm, seeing all these Saturn owners answering, "Well these games may
suck, but they're only the 1st string of Saturn games!" to Saturn-bashers
who complain that Saturn sucks because the games suck. Well, for Saturn
owners that answer with, "Well these games may suck, but they're only the
1st string of Saturn games!" I have to tell you to go look at the 1st
string of PlayStation games... Take a good look guys, and tell me what
you see. You see great, high quality games (on average). And once again,
the PlayStation has taken the same amount of time to come out with those
games, so you can't answer with something like, "Well the PSX has had
more time to make games!". Just compare the starting games... If the PSX
has improved their games THAT much quicker compared to the Saturn, the PSX
must be a better machine...

Well, I'm sure I'll get flames... But I wasn't meaninglessly flaming
anything... The Saturn is a good machine though, just not AS good as the PSX.
Um, sorry. Let's look at this:

Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
than RR.
Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.

Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)

Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.

Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.

Clockwork Knight - Ditto.

Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
crap in my book.
Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
as good as Tekken this time around.=)

Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.

Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)

I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
looks hot...=)
Hmm...VERY nice observation...heh. But, two questions:

1) Did you forget Bug!? I think this will kick the crap out of Jumping
Flash, IMHO.

2)What the hell is VF Remix? Is this game real, or did you just make it
up or something? I've never even heard of it...


Jun 25, 2005
Sega drops the bomb (5/11/95)
If these Saturns sell well, we will see that it is an initial roll
out...AKA the Saturn will be out not in sept. but NOW.

Good move Sega.
Play off Nintendo's delay

Beat Sony to the punch by 4 months.

Hell - it's a Knockout strategy.

Not only do they take advantage of their large distribution network but it
totally Fucks up Sony - making them play catch up.
That depends on the games that comes out in the next few months. If Sega
pulls another 32X scheme and makes people wait for the next batch of games,
Sony won't have to work very hard to catch up. The last list of games I saw
shows that there is not a significant number of games that will be easily
translated, so Sega might repeat their 32X blunder. I'd love to be proven
wrong here, if someone else knows something I don't.

Plus, the steep price is going to stop a lot of people. Even if they drop
the price in response to the PSX, by then the PSX will be out. The price is
what is keeping me from buying a Saturn right now.
t certainly has proven itself successful in the past.

<*> Flashback <*>

"Hey Billy, check out my Sega Genesis!"
"Nah... my Nintendo is just as good.... wow... that is COOL"

<*> Welcome back.... <*>

The time between the release of the Genesis and the SNES was way too long.

It almost proved fatal for the SNES and took them an increadible amount of
time to recover from. Personally, Im scared for Nintendo. They have all
their eggs in a basket they haven't even started weaving yet.

Although its pre-mature I see Sega and Sony pulling through through the new
system war. Everything else will slip under. As for price, I don't care is
the U64 is 250, because it doesn't exist yet. All of Nintendo's big labels
have signed with either Sega or Sony... they're going to have a *lot* of
catching up to do. And there won't be a "SF2 World Warrior" to boost sales
through the roof on the U64...

Saturn Out Early -- Why? (5/15/95)
They released it the 1st day of E3, because so many people wanted it (people
are paying close to $800 to get import systems). They had them ready, and
people wanted them. So they satisfied their customers and got a jump on
the competition all at once! Not a bad deal!
Well, I am a happy new Saturn owner and like the machine a lot. I DON'T
think that they released her early for the philanthropic reasons you sited
above though. Here is the skinny overheard at E3.

The 3rd party developers are REAL pissed to say the least at this news.
It seems that they don't have any titles ready to ship and weren't informesd
ahead of time of the new release date until the 11th!

Many retailers are also pissed because they were not let in on the action.

At least one retailer that is carrying them is pissed because SEGA is
selling the machines to them at $399.99 so they turn around and sell them
at a loss (shipping, handling, cataloging, etc.) They still make $$ on
the carts and peripherals.

Why would SEGA sell the Saturn earlier and piss off so many VITAL elements
in the marketing mix?? Simple.. The Sony PSX.

I am neutral in the system wars, so I can tell you that the PSX is a
masterpiece. It is Smaller, lighter, & twice as powerful. The best
estimates put the PSX at roughly $300 to manufacture. (perhaps lower
now that they are producing them in massive quantities.) The Saturn
is estimated to cost $450 to manufacture (thats right.. $450!) They are
taking a $50 hit everytime they sell it. In Japan, Virtua Fighters is
God. THey are completely ape over it. In the US, it is not nearly as
popular as Mortal Kombat II (now III). Guess what Sony will pack in for
$300?? Sega did the only thing they could considering the circumstances,
they released it early hoping to get enough people to buy it before the
serious competition shows up. With the 32x fiasco, not to mention the
cdx flop, Sega has been losing a bit of face here in the US. Sony
realises (correctly) that they are vulnerable to a knockout punch.


PS. As proof (sorta), rumour on the floor had it that Sega was talking
to 3do about the m2 technology!

PPS. I hope that both Sony and Sega do well in the US. 3DO too.
Competition benefits everyone. Especially the consumer.
They get a head start on Sony, a strategy that served them well against
Nintendo. And they get to rake in some profit before the competition heats
up and they have to drop the price.

Saturn Bashing: stop it please ! (5/12/95)
: I can't believe it! The Saturn just came out and there is already Saturn

: Bashing. If you don't like the Saturn or Sega, fine but I don't want to read
: about how they suck! If you don't like the Saturn, fine don't buy it. I know
: the Saturn isn't as good as the PSX or the U64, but I bought it for the game
: quality, not hardware. I think Sega makes some of the best games around. For
: all you people waiting for a better systems, it doesn't work. You wait for the
: PSX, it comes out and you decide to wait for the M2, it comes out and you
: decide to wait for the U64, it comes out and you decide to wait for whatever
: new machine comes along. For all I care you can wait forever! Harware doesn't
: make a system great, games do.

Well, keep this in mind. Before any of these systems came out, or probably
existed for that matter, many people had already decided what system to

I agree with you. Saying "This one has 100,000 polygons per second versus
60,000 means I'll buy it." is pretty short sighted. I believe that
Sega and their developers will come out with some great games. Heck, just
looking at the 8 that are out now, Panzer Dragoon is AWESOME. As a matter
of fact, other than the golf game, I think all the games released are
awesome in their own way.

The way I figure it Sega is doing some GREAT marketing. They shocked the
world and released the Saturn in the U.S. sooner than anyone expected (and
I might add that they pretty much released it when I originally heard it
would be released in the U.S. since most articles I read talked about May).
They will also benefit by the "rarity" of the unit. I bought mine at
Software Etc. and was pretty much told they had gotten 4 in, had 2 left and
wouldn't get any more for a month, if then. So there is pretty much a
situation where if you don't buy one now, you'll have to wait a little while.
Dustin if you dont like the Saturn Bashing then get off the net. Some
people feel that way about the Saturn and thats the way it is. Personally
I have only played 3 games for the Saturn. Vf of course, Daytona, and
Panzer Dragon. They are good games but they are not Great! Lets be
realistic here. They are quick conversions used to launch the system. I
feel the Saturn is capable of a lot more and the second wave of software
should really show the Saturns potential. The glitches have all been
talked about before, VF flicker, Daytona Graphics popping up during play.
Games in the future should be polished. I think people tend to let their
feelings speak for themselves when a system first comes out.
Realistically the Saturn is ok but needs more software to show its self.
People have every right in the world to bash the Saturn. Its their
perogative. Live with it.

Ramblings of game system wars (5/15/95)
Well, I guess I'll consolidate all my ramblings into one post since I
havn't commented much on the Nintendo end of things in other groups.

The hot topic of the week is the release of the Saturn. Some call it
premature since the latest magazine articles said that September was the
date to be for this system. Personally, I consider this date to be on
time since the posts and articles I read last year gave May as the date
during which the Saturn and Playstation would be released.

Was this a marketing ploy? Did Sega do this to jump the gun on
Nintendo? Did Sega do this to jump the gun on Sony? Do I care? Lets
face it folks, the plain and simple truth is, the Saturn is here and
there are 6, soon to be 8 games for it. Period. Exclamation point.
That should be the ONLY information a person truly interested in playing
games should care about.

I don't appreciate posts saying "You moron. I can't believe you paid
$399 for a system that is [crap|outdated|unproven|overpriced]." Over a
year ago the 3DO was $799 and people bought it. They have probably
enjoyed the system immensly, are happy to have it, and have had the
pleasure of playing it for a year longer than myself or anyone else
looking at or buying a 32Bit game system right now. Is a year worth
$400? Well, that's a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be the
subject of flame war inciting comments using the word "stupid".

As for those saying "The playstation will be here in September or sooner
for $100 less?" Well, that falls under the same thing I just mentioned.
Are 3 months worth the money?

The other flame war that continues is the war of the polygons and
colors. "My system can do X polygons per second, your can only do Y."
Is it just me or do these people sound like us when we were 5 years old
and we got the GI-JOE doll with the Kung Fu grip when your friends just
had the dorky guy that looked like he was ready to pinch Barbies butt? I
mean, yeah it seemed good at the time until those rubber fingers fell off
because you bent his Kung Fu fingers one to many times.

The simple question is will you have fun with the system you have. Well,
if you're one of these folks that is reading specs instead of playing
games, I think you're never really going to have fun because you're too
busy looking at the instructions. That and the fact that you measure
game play by how many polygons the used to render the car or dragon,
rather than just how fun the game is to play.

Now onto the Ultra 64. First of all, I can't wait to actually see one in
action. I think it will be a great system. I do, however, have a few
concerns that will NOT be alleviated until I actually the system and its
games on the shelves. Those concerns are:

- Price of the system. Yeah, I know about the $250 price tag, but until
I see that actual price tag it's still just rumor. I think they can make
it for that price, but I still have to see it to believe it.
- Price of the games. With no CD-ROM built in, what will 32 MegaByte
games cost? Yeah, I've heard about the compression and such. Until I
see it in action, though, it's still just words.
- Playability of games. Personally, I think that having the CD
soundtrack in the background of Virtua Fighter and Panzer Dragoon type
games, or have a lot of digital "dialog" such as that found in Gex
helps. Can Nintendo deliver this and not charge $100 for a game? Again,
I hope they can pull it off, but I have to see it.
- Quality of adult games. Lets face it, the SNES is a family system. In
order to save their butt Nintendo let MKII slip through the cracks, and
has gone for Killer Instinct and Doom. However, some SNES games are
still being edited.

To wrap up, I have a SNES and have enjoyed playing games like Super
Metroid, Final Fantasy III, and the lot. So I think they have some great
games, but most of the ones I've played have younger humor and I do like
to play things with adult humor also. The Genesis has delivered that
with some of the games I've played on it, and looking at the lineup I
think the Saturn will deliver its share of more sophisticated games.

My ultimate goal is to mess with my Saturn now. In another year or less
I'll get an idea of just how well the Playstation will be supported and
if I see enough games for it that I just HAVE to have I'll go for it.
Then, when it's released next year, I'll see what is delivered for the
Ultra 64 and how much it costs.

If they can deliver the games without them costing as much as Neo Geo
games, I'll go for it. Only time will tell, but I'm hoping that
ultimatly I'll have a Saturn, Playstation and Ultra 64 and enjoy all
three of them equally.
: I can confirm that U64 Doom will not be censored (I wouldn't buy it if it is was
: censored).

Yeah, but Doom is another heavy hitter that can give Nintendo a black eye
if handled wrong. What I need to see is some brand new game, or some
nothing title that has the word "kill" in the title, or is a blood bath.
When I see that, I'll know that Nintendo is REALLY not censoring games
anymore. Besides which, I've pretty much gotten burned out on Doom and
Doom II on my PC.