• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

The Nintendo Switch and it's lack of an achievement/trophy system.

TanookiTom

Member
Jun 10, 2015
693
0
0
Berlin, Germany
I own an Xbox One (and had a 360 before) and could not care less for the achievements on there. That being said I realize that a lot of hardcore gamers do care about them.

But I am happy that Nintendo continues to not integrate any such system in their consoles. Why? Because in my opinion Nintendo wants people to enjoy the games just for themselves, and not having people play them to collect points or to complete some random objectives.

You already have two out of the three players supporting such systems. But I would not expect Nintendo to follow them any time soon. It just not what Nintendo is about and I think they are even purposefully avoiding it.

And I would also argue that many Nintendo games have tons of replay value regardless, thanks to their focus on fun gameplay and because they are often just so easy to pick up and get into.
 

RPGam3r

Member
May 12, 2014
3,416
0
0
Ohio
I've been advocating the ability to opt out of them entirely since they started. I don't like them and find they negatively impact my experience, but I'm not opposed to the idea that others might enjoy them. However, simply turning off notifications isn't quite the compromise I'd hoped for.

What's amazing to me is that the pro-achievement contingent has always opposed the concept of optional participation. They frequently act as though I'm suggesting the ability to turn off their achievements. No, I just want the ability to opt out entirely. They have yet to tell me why this is a bad thing.

I pro achievement and I'm fine if you want to opt out. At this point that is a mix of turn off notifications and ignore the system level display in menus. Wish they made that better, but it is at least something for both sides.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
0
1,640
I find trophies to be really engaging on PS4. I dont play games just for trophies but for games I fo enjoy, it adds bonus objectives to complete.

Its my personal gaming record. I can go back over the past decade and see which games I played and just what I accomplished.

If you dont care about them, fine. But you lose nothing by their inclusion.

Pretty much. Moreover: no matter what your stance is, you can't deny people are invested in this. I mean, some people don't bother with certain games if there is no platinum on PS4 and in reverse are more eager to buy if there is one. It's sad but for some people this is really a factor in their purchasing habits. An achievement system is something that should've been there from day 1. It'd also give the friend list an extra option if you could compare with others.
 
Jun 19, 2013
4,927
7
0
I fucking love not having achievements. Their only value is to artificially extend the life of a game with mundane tasks and or reward for things like inputting a character name or starting a new game.

I turned them off on my PS4 after a lengthy stint as a hunter. When it came to games like Dragon Ball Xenoverse where completing the game 100% relies on random drops that never came, I started to realize just how ridiculous it was that I was spending hours and hours doing the same 5 things, in order, over and over again.

You realised you were only playing due to the skinner box that is the trophy metagame - congratulations :)

The same thing happened with me, and while there are some worthwhile trophies (mostly variants on gameplay), they should be included as separate modes or missions within the game itself.

Pretty much. Moreover: no matter what your stance is, you can't deny people are invested in this. I mean, some people don't bother with certain games if there is no platinum on PS4 and in reverse are more eager to buy if there is one. It's sad but for some people this is really a factor in their purchasing habits. An achievement system is something that should've been there from day 1. It'd also give the friend list an extra option if you could compare with others.

This is true, but there's no denying that trophies and achievements are often lazy ways of compelling a player to do things, often turning games into a box-ticking exercise. I get that people love objectives and tasks and being rewarded for them, but is there really any need for the gamification of a game? Often trophies only make a dull task *seem* rewarding or fulfilling, and I find that sad.

On the whole I can't really view system-wide mandatory trophy/achievements as much more than ways to keep players hooked to a platform. Like I said, there are some good trophies, but the good ones are the ones which used to be part of a game's design (alternate objectives or variants).

I also don't think including mundane tasks as goals inside video games is any better either, by the way. It's fairly easy to tell apart a motivation or mechanic that's designed with the game in mind, and one that's just added as an external influence to raise that oh-so-popular "engagement".
 

Zemm

Member
Oct 11, 2012
6,855
1
0
At the very minimum Nintendo needed to have the activity log on the Switch like the 3DS version because for a lot of people trophies are just records of what games they've played and how far they've got.

That they don't even have the activity log is so bad.
 

daxy

Member
Nov 28, 2011
2,665
1
670
At the very minimum Nintendo needed to have the activity log on the Switch like the 3DS version because for a lot of people trophies are just records of what games they've played and how far they've got.

That they don't even have the activity log is so bad.

Yeah! I loved to keep track of what I played each year.

I would also really like to see an achievement system. It's a nice incentive to replay older games or go for some crazy challenge.
 

PokéKong

Member
Feb 13, 2011
1,677
0
0
Portland, OR
Blaming a console maker for not creating a system and basically forcing or highly encouraging every developer to implement a particular feature has never made any sense to me. Achievements/trophies being console-level decreases their value to me. I would rather the game itself acknowledge my specific feats. For that matter, I'm pretty disappointed BoTW doesn't have a thing like the board in Link's house in OoT that tracks various values. It would be nice if the game was like "you shattered your 500th weapon, good job, here's 500 rupees!"
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
42,665
4
1,190
I really liked the miiverse stickers you could unlock on the Wii U. I hope they add something like that

I've said a few times: That concept, but handled at an OS level so you could mix-and-match your unlocked stickers between games? That's gold. Fairly cheap to 'manufacture', but it's a tangible reward of sorts.

I thought Badge Arcade was another step along that path, too. The whole thing just feels like it makes sense on multiple levels.
 

drabnon

Member
May 13, 2017
240
0
0
PokéKong;244526283 said:
Blaming a console maker for not creating a system and basically forcing or highly encouraging every developer to implement a particular feature has never made any sense to me. Achievements/trophies being console-level decreases their value to me. I would rather the game itself acknowledge my specific feats. For that matter, I'm pretty disappointed BoTW doesn't have a thing like the board in Link's house in OoT that tracks various values. It would be nice if the game was like "you shattered your 500th weapon, good job, here's 500 rupees!"

The reason you would want achievements on the console level is so that you don't have to go into individual games to see them. If you rely on a game itself to track your progress or stats then you have to go into that specific game to see it. Putting it on the console level circumvents this. And it's not really forcing developers to implement it; I think devs do feel obligated to do it but trophies/achievements are a bonus for those who want it and ignorable for those who don't.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Jan 21, 2010
39,740
1
0
The Internet
fyrewulff.com
It's great. I don't care about achievements on xbox or playstation anymore either.

Partly because when you're a dev it's still stupid that first party arbitrarily limits your achievements like they're a rare resource. Steam has it right, no stupid artificial limits, no meta value (points/metal levels), just put in as many as you want whenever you want.

hell i don't even know anyone that cares about Apple Play Center/Google Play achievements either
 

RPGam3r

Member
May 12, 2014
3,416
0
0
Ohio
It's great. I don't care about achievements on xbox or playstation anymore either.

Partly because when you're a dev it's still stupid that first party arbitrarily limits your achievements like they're a rare resource. Steam has it right, no stupid artificial limits, no meta value (points/metal levels), just put in as many as you want whenever you want.

hell i don't even know anyone that cares about Apple Play Center/Google Play achievements either

Steam has it right after, watching a couple Jimquisitions I don't think I'm going to agree.
 

Reila

Member
Jun 2, 2013
14,257
12
500
darkadia.com
It is one of the minor reasons I chose to not get one, even if I really wanted to play Splatoon 2. Achievements are a good thing. They are also optional, so I am not sure why some people are against them.
 

weltalldx

Member
Feb 25, 2017
384
479
230
With regards to the crowd that clamps to the idea that adding achievements as an option does no harm, I beg to differ. Regardless of your stance on the benefits or drawbacks of achievements in games, once an option is introduced at the top down level, ie at the OS level, that option is no longer an option but is rather mandatory. Since expectation has been set at the core OS level to have achievements, few if any game developer would want to make a game without said feature. Compound to the fact that there is no consensus on whether achievements add any value to games, forcing the whole user-base into accepting a default option can cause irreparable harm to the gamers who genuinely dislike achievements .

I do not think achievement should be added as a core OS feature but it should be added at an individual game level. If a game developer feels that achievements add value to their game, then by all means add it to their game. But do not use the excuse of Nintendo not providing an achievement system as a vehicle to overtly or covertly influence other developers.
 

mindsale

Member
May 18, 2013
2,643
0
0
A lack of achievements only reduces replayability. They incentivize different play styles and difficulties you may not otherwise utilize. It is really a shame Switch hasn't got them account-wide, but maybe they'll introduce them when they introduce the Virtual Console, like PS3 did mid-gen, and all those who say they hate achievements can bsckpedal and laud Nintendo for their superior achievements.

Edit: "Laud" autocorrected to "laid."
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
23,035
0
0
42
Watch the thread turn into people telling others why nintendo did us a favor favor by not including them.
No need. It's already a thread about the Nintendo apologist and what they will say.

I view trophies the same way i see all the little things/trinkets in GTA. Great games don't need them.
 
May 18, 2007
3,534
1
880
UK
I'd rather they did their own thing than mirror trophies/achievements to be honest. I find the majority of mandated tasks boring and unimaginative at the moment but i can entertain myself in games so i don't need a checklist to guide me and most are just "Finish Chapter 3" or "Kill 10 things" which are just uninspired. Online/Multiplayer only Tro'Chievements are the worst they can bog off for sure though.

... but if Nintendo did their own thing rather than copy MS/Sony then it'd probably interest me for a while at least.

At the end of the day as long as i can keep ignoring them then whatever, do what you want :)
 

FinalAres

Member
Dec 12, 2016
1,928
0
270
I'm happy to not have them. I do like them generally, but honestly it compels me to play games more than I have time for.

I'd rather finish but not 100% a lot of games, than 100% a few.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
I dont need them personally - but having them wouldnt kill me either,i would just continue to ignore them.

I feel like Nintendo has still alot of work to do when it comes to Switch....talking about the Online App, Virtual console, Savegame Backups/Cloudsaves etc. stuff like a trophy system likely isnt high on their priority list.
 

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Oct 16, 2004
9,638
0
1,420
Nintendo already has precedent for achievements (or activities as they call them) via MyNintendo on mobile. I wouldn't be surprised that once MyNintendo rewards etc rolls out for Switch they'll add in those there too.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Jan 21, 2010
39,740
1
0
The Internet
fyrewulff.com
Reminder: on Xbox and Playstation you can't arbitrarily add post launch achievements to your game unless you attach it to paid DLC.

if DLC has achievements attached to it, it's really hard to make that DLC free afterwards down the road.
 

Discokuningas

Member
Oct 29, 2014
229
0
0
Personally I don't want achievements, but as long as it doesn't take anything away from games itself and it can be turned off, I don't want to deny achievements from others.
 

Devilgunman

Member
Feb 9, 2012
6,780
1
635
devilgunman.tumblr.com
It would be great if the Switch has achievement system but it doesn't really affect my enjoyment playing Switch games. However, it really affects my decision to buy multi-platform games on the Switch. If a game is available on both PS4 and the Switch, I will always buy the PS4 version partly because I have all my achievement there.
 

meppi

Member
May 15, 2005
9,949
0
1,455
I used to go for achievements on 360 and that continued with PS3, Vita and PS4.
Nowadays I'm pretty much over it and it doesn't even interest me anymore. In the end it doesn't mean anything and I just let the gameplay in and of itself be all I need to feel rewarded.

For some reason, I actually dislike that Disgaea 5 on Switch has trophy pop-ups now.
It annoys me way more than I can even explain.
 

faridmon

Member
Dec 6, 2008
29,040
2
0
London
There are apologists for every bad decision of Nintendo. I think there are even some who defend the lack of built-in voice chat of Switch.

There people who just use ''Nintendo apologist'' to post nonsense too. It goes both way.

Personally, I hate what they done in regards to Voice chat, but I honestly don't care about achievement,

Take it what you will
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
54,013
0
1,140
A good thing about achievement systems is it's a good way for you to easily share progress with others in a unified way. The problem is they tied completion to tasks like collect 69 hamsters just to fulfil some achievement criteria that you know wouldn't be there if the system wasn't in place.

Allow games to be flexible. Mario's simple five stars to mark off the key achievements (complete game, beat all levels, find all coins, etc) is sometimes all you need. It's the padding that kills it.

Games don't all fit neatly into some pre-designed points system.
 

Taker666

Member
Apr 26, 2005
4,060
3
1,420
I've usually been a mainly Nintendo gamer (but yet to buy a Switch . Wanted to wait for the launch kinks to be ironed out..I'll get one pre Odyssey).

I got a PS4 last year... and I honestly can't see the point in a system wide trophy system.

I feel far more acheivement collecting every star in a Mario game or collecting a set of specific items in Zelda,upping my level on Splatoon, or getting a gold wheel icon on Mario Kart....than any systerm wide trophy. I've never gone out of my way to bother with any trophy on PS4..most seem so random they seem completely meaningless as a reward.

The only thing I think I've tried to get completely in a PS4 game was finding and shooting all the clown skittles in Rush of Blood..and just completing that is far more rerwarding that some digital trophy. The game by game basis makes way more sense to me.

Most games have always had internal achievements. I don't have the ego that I feel the need to have a public record of how many Trophies I've got for bragging rights/showing off.


Having said that..I did assume that Switch games would have similar missions to their mobile games where you could collect coins by completing missions to spend on items. That's far more attractive to me than actual trophies as you're gettng something out of it (even if it's just a wallpaper). Hopefully that will come to Switch at some point in the near future.
 

tsab

Member
Apr 26, 2010
4,272
0
0
mostly at work :(
I don't think they will add it in the OS level.

My best guess is IF they add them, they will hardwire them per game and have the mobile app to browse them, compare with others etc.
 

Wiped89

Member
May 12, 2015
1,185
1
300
Sheffield, UK
What is it with GAF and saying this wrong without fail. Grinds my gears.

That's how Americans say it. I know, it's stupid.


Anyway, I would like achievements on Switch. Why not? Even Android and Steam have them. Their existence hurts no one, and though I rarely chase Platinums, I sometimes enjoy going for an achivement that I wouldn't have tried for otherwise.
 

Nimmermehr

Neo Member
Jan 27, 2014
223
0
0
I'd really want some sort of activity log to keep track of what i played in the past, but i couldn't care less about trophies to compare with others. If, for example, i'm supposed to collect additional stuff in games it should either be fun (like in Donkey Kong) or give me real rewards like additional costumes.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
0
1,640
This is true, but there's no denying that trophies and achievements are often lazy ways of compelling a player to do things, often turning games into a box-ticking exercise. I get that people love objectives and tasks and being rewarded for them, but is there really any need for the gamification of a game? Often trophies only make a dull task *seem* rewarding or fulfilling, and I find that sad.

On the whole I can't really view system-wide mandatory trophy/achievements as much more than ways to keep players hooked to a platform. Like I said, there are some good trophies, but the good ones are the ones which used to be part of a game's design (alternate objectives or variants).

I also don't think including mundane tasks as goals inside video games is any better either, by the way. It's fairly easy to tell apart a motivation or mechanic that's designed with the game in mind, and one that's just added as an external influence to raise that oh-so-popular "engagement".

Yep, but it can be seen as a challenge: if your trophy/achievement list is well thought out, it can add to the game. I always think back to the original Crackdown there: some of the achievements were crazy challenges like juggling cars in the air with rockets. Achievements don't have to be boring, but it's unfortunate that many devs see them as this checkbox system.
 

nightside

Member
May 23, 2007
1,805
0
1,100
Really really don't care about achievements, but I must admit it's always fun when accidentally you unlock some stupid random achievement.
Anyway I liked quite a lot the token system used in metroid prime 3.
 

Diablohead

Member
Jun 4, 2006
43,512
0
0
I find the coin reward goals on my Nintendo do a good enough job at being achievements, more games need to use them.
 

Poona

Member
Jun 8, 2004
2,363
0
0
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Yeah, I miss them. If it had them I would have got a switch already.

They really should have implemented it system wide and called them stars or coins or something.

It's not too late to implement them either as ps3 didn't have it for launch.
 

zswordsman

Member
Oct 27, 2013
2,249
1
0
Tacoma
I'm glad there isn't one.

Trophies ruined how I played games, took a break from the PS4 and now I just try to enjoy the games I play.
Yeah I'm all for switch not having trophies. I'm really looking forward to playing Zelda after finishing KH2, and just enjoying it without having trophies dictate shit that I should do.

I mean every so often I enjoy a good trophy hunt but it has changed my style of play and I'm looking forward to just playing a game for what it is, without trophies creeping up in the back of my mind.
 

Randomizer

Member
Dec 8, 2008
2,935
12
670
35
I'm fine with the Switch not having them to be honest. Trophies and achievements often distract me from enjoying a game. As a completionist I try to collect and discover everything within a game, sometimes to excessive levels. Going for trophies has me playing through games multple times when I most likely wouldn't otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy getting them if the trophies are genuninely good or if the game itself is of amazing quality.
 

Magicgamer101

Member
Apr 24, 2014
697
0
0
If Mario Kart 8 had trophies I guess I'd actually play the game. Everything's unlocked from the get go in single player and I don't play multiplayer.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Feb 17, 2016
933
0
0
It's the single greatest disappointment for me with Switch and essentially means I will only buy Switch exclusive games on Switch as multiplatform games will offer more on other platforms.
What really compounds the mistake is their continued watering down of the activity tracker for monitoring and ranking time played. Mystifying really.
 

dancrane212

Member
Aug 4, 2011
5,375
1
0
I'd rather have more content than a lazy way for a dev to artificially extend the games play length by putting in trophies

It's not an either or situation though. A while after Halo 3 launched Bungie added a series of achievements to the game that focused on specific challenges such as beating the final level of the game with 3 other players, on the hardest difficulty, using the alternative end-sequence vehicles, and having a modifier on that sent players back to a checkpoint if one of you died. Me and my friends had a blast going for that achievement and would never have thought to try that situation without it.

You can call it lazy all you want but it doesn't make that Halo 3 run, or any of the other things I tried in a game because an achievement brought it to my attention, any less fun.
 

Arklite

Member
Nov 30, 2010
3,709
1
0
They're not important but they are commonplace and a broad expectation, which makes them another missing point in Nintendo's awkward handling of its online services. I'm surprised Nintendo didn't jump on immediately with their own quirky twist of achievements years ago. Small details like that seem to be right up their alley.
 

redcrayon

Member
Dec 5, 2011
11,417
3
625
Why would anybody be against the idea of a totally optional achievement system?

But yeah, it's 2017 and it's dumb that the Switch doesn't have such a thing
I don't really mind whether it's in or not (personally I couldn't care less about trophy systems and turn off the notifications), but I don't see how it's dumb not to include a mandatory one when they take resources. On the plus side some people seem to like it, on the other they take dev resources which leads to busywork ones rather than enjoying good gameplay for the sake of good gameplay, so it's a reasonable decision whether they include it or not IMO. I think it's more foolish to make it mandatory for all developers to include it, which is what leads to crap trophies like 'kill 1,000 enemies' or 'completed the tutorial' as they do the bare minimum to meet standards due to having shitloads of more important things to do. Having it on a game-by-game basis means devs can include it if they are interested enough to make it worthwhile.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
54,013
0
1,140
If Mario Kart 8 had trophies I guess I'd actually play the game. Everything's unlocked from the get go in single player and I don't play multiplayer.

 

Netherscourge

Banned
Sep 13, 2013
12,532
0
0
Achievements/Trophies are meaningless to me.

My opinion of the Switch is not affected by their inclusion or exclusion.

There are more important things Nintendo should focus on.