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The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!

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CorvoSol

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She's not from Unicorn though, also I'm already on the second original Gundam movie. Then all I have to do is see Z to get to where she shows up. Shouldn't take that long. Plus you were watching like 30 anime all at once. I'm probably only going to be watching gundam, plus some weekly tv shows I follow.
Haha, okay, that's true. But watching the MSG movies will shorten the time drastically as well.

They're working for the Jupiter Energy Fleet. That's like working for Exxon Mobil in our time. They're both doing it to get rich as fuck.

Besides, Judau is described as a "Player" by his friends. You know he's getting at a bunch of Jovian girls. He's not the type to let his youth go to waste.
Any woman not named Roux Louka is a waste of one's youth, now that
Lt. Emma Sheen is gone.
The single greatest living female in the entire Universal Century and she's gone with him all the way to Jupiter. Judau was many things, but a damn fool he was not. But you paint a compelling picture.
 

Megalosaro

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It SORT of makes sense, since he's from Hong Kong.... But not really.

Movie Dub Char is terrible. I like Steve Blum well enough, but he botched Char completely
 

Ezalc

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It SORT of makes sense, since he's from Hong Kong.... But not really.

Movie Dub Char is terrible. I like Steve Blum well enough, but he botched Char completely
Bright is from Hong Kong? I knew Amuro was Canadian but I didn't know Bright was from HK.

Also I thought Blum was Char, how interesting. Not one of his best performances but damn did he add a great character to his already awesomely packed list of roles.
 

Beth Cyra

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It SORT of makes sense, since he's from Hong Kong.... But not really.

Movie Dub Char is terrible. I like Steve Blum well enough, but he botched Char completely
I would say this is more on the Voice Director. Steve has had some really shit roles, but he has also had some greats with tons of range.
 

Megalosaro

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I'm inclined to side with you on that. Like you said, Steve has done a great job on various roles. And besides, EVERYONE fell flat on the movies, not just him.
 

CorvoSol

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Oh, is that why Mirai lives in Hong Kong in the post MSG shows? I had no idea. I coulda sworn that Bright said he was a Spacenoid. And for the record, I still think Spacenoid is a stupid, stupid term.
 

Beth Cyra

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Oh, is that why Mirai lives in Hong Kong in the post MSG shows? I had no idea. I coulda sworn that Bright said he was a Spacenoid. And for the record, I still think Spacenoid is a stupid, stupid term.
God, I hate Spacenoid as a term.

I remember playing Dynasty Warriors Gundam for the first time and they had Zechs use the term, and I was like what kinda shitty translation is this? Only to find out that it was just Wing and SEED (the only two I had seen at the time) that had just not used the stupid thing.
 

Megalosaro

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Oh, is that why Mirai lives in Hong Kong in the post MSG shows? I had no idea. I coulda sworn that Bright said he was a Spacenoid. And for the record, I still think Spacenoid is a stupid, stupid term.
Nope, Bright is definitely an Earthnoid. Early on in MSG, he is alone with Sayla on an elevator, and he is practically bragging about it. She shuts him down by making fun of him, saying something like "Ah, you're one of the Earth-born elite, huh?"

Also, Mirai was living in Jaburo at the beginning of Zeta. Apparently the Earth Federation was basically holding her and the kids hostage to keep Bright in check. Bright requests that they look for Mirai before the Jaburo operation. Apparently she managed to escape before the operation though (probably before he defected to the AEUG), and made her way to Hong Kong.
 

Ezalc

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Finished the second movie. Interesting, I kept confusing Jaburo and Al Boa Qu, also I keep wondering when Lalah is supposed to show up but I guess them receiving that space mission answers that. I'll go look for the third movie now.
 

Megalosaro

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The third movie is the best one, in my opinion. It was the only movie that got a significant amount of new animation. Plus Meguriai is an amazing song.
 

CorvoSol

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Is Lacus Clyne Cosmic Era's Haman Khan?

The question is right here before us, folks: Is Lacus Clyne, Cosmic Era's sugar-coated Pink Princess, really Haman Khan, the manipulative villainess of Zeta and ZZ fame? At first I'm sure it might seem like a stupid question, where the answer is "No you moron, Lacus and Haman are nothing alike, and whatever you say next is more elaborate than the writers could possibly be expected to have come up with!" And while you are COMPLETELY RIGHTWRONG, I will endeavor to afford you an explanation just the same.

Let's begin with the absolutely most superficial and work our way in, shall we? Haman and Lacus both have "warm" hair colors, specifically Lacus has pink, and Haman a more magenta shade. Obviously they're not that far apart. Both are young, beautiful, blue eyed women. Both are space-born women of a race despised by the people of Earth. Both have a tendency to accentuate their hair with golden ornaments.

At a young age, Haman Khan was rescued from peril by a dashing young prince. Lacus, likewise, was rescued from mortal peril by one she later referred to as a knight, whose sister was a princess. Haman was a sweet teenager, and continued this public appearance of being a perfect lady the rest of her life. An act Lacus endeavored to put on as well. Haman became romantically interested in Char Aznable when she was young, just as Lacus was engaged to Athrun Zala, one of SEED's three Char Clones at a young age. Despite this relationship, both Haman and Lacus later moved on from their Char to a bright eyed young man with big dreams about an idealistic version of the universe.

The Haman Khan we know, particularly in ZZ, has a tendency to use her femininity to influence the men in her life into doing her bidding. She does this with Glemy, with Mashmyre, and even Judau. This is symbolized differently with all three, but most blatantly with Mashmyre's rose. Lacus also uses her femininity to influence the men in her life, collecting Kira, Athrun, and Andrew Waltfeld to her cause as time goes on.

Haman's father was a prominent member of Spacenoid society, and when he died, she took over his role in Axis society. Lacus' father was a prominent member of Coordinator society, and when he died she claimed his role in the PLANTs.

Both women are charismatic, but extremely talented tacticians and cunning manipulators of the persons and events around them. Haman was also a NewType, and Lacus a SEED bearer. Haman suggests that concealing her true nature is her greatest strength, and as previously discussed, disguising the fact that she (Lacus) is so intelligent is likely Lacus' as well. Haman tells Judau that it is the destiny of humans to be alone. Lacus fights Durandal's communal "Destiny Plan" leaving humans alone to find their own way through life.

Both women are intensely ambitious, Haman ruthlessly fighting to seize control of the Earth Sphere and Lacus raising a small army of her own for the sake of dictating human fate as well.

For the sake of reminder, consider: Lacus Clyne orchestrates the induction of Kira Yamato into her personal command, the theft of the newest and most powerful Gundam for this same sake, and a new ship prior to entering into a two-way conflict, where, in spite of being a relative unknown, she quickly gains power and sway over all after a conflict with Athrun Zala. Some time later, her forces engage a distressed and disorganized world in a conflict for control of the fate of mankind.

Haman Khan attempts the induction of Judau Ashta into her personal command, as well as the theft of his newest and most powerful Gundam for the same sake, and the new prototype ship. She enters into a two-way conflict between the Titans and AEUG where, in spite of being a relative unknown, she quickly gains power and sway over all after a conflict with Char Aznable. Some time later, her forces engage a distressed and disorganized Earth Sphere in a conflict for control of the fate of mankind.

Lacus is friends with an actual princess that everyone knows is a puppet and ignores in her favor. Haman is the guardian of an actual princess that everyone knows is a puppet and ignores in her favor.

So what say you, GundamGAF?

Haman and Lacus; polar opposite characters who share a similar hair color? Or is one a "heroic" retelling of the other?
 

ambientmystic

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The only difference would be that where Haman Khan failed with Judau Ashta, Lacus Clyne succeeded with Kira Yamato.

Where Haman Khan failed with world domination, Lacus Clyne's Three Ship Coalition succeeded.

Making her superior to Haman Khan.

FUCK, I shouldn't have said that.
 

CorvoSol

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The only difference would be that where Haman Khan failed with Judau Ashta, Lacus Clyne succeeded with Kira Yamato.

Where Haman Khan failed with world domination, Lacus Clyne's Three Ship Coalition succeeded.

Making her superior to Haman Khan.

FUCK, I shouldn't have said that.
She's more villainous, anyway.
 

frye

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Lolol. How long has Evil Lacus been a thing?
I wasn't really into ~anime fandom~ when Destiny aired but probably for a long time. It's an interesting way to reconcile the goody-two-shoes conception of Lacus and the fact that she basically rules the entirety of mankind via her own station and the stations of her boytoys and Cagalli, even if it's unintentional.

Still a good post though!
 

CorvoSol

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I wasn't really into ~anime fandom~ when Destiny aired but probably for a long time. It's an interesting way to reconcile the goody-two-shoes conception of Lacus and the fact that she basically rules the entirety of mankind via her own station and the stations of her boytoys and Cagalli, even if it's unintentional.

Still a good post though!
Well I don't really think that much of Destiny was well thought out. It's just fun to poke at the way it kinda wobbled into place.
 

Ezalc

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Finally finished the third film. I'll write some review or whatever tomorrow. I'll watch one episode of Zeta before going to sleep.
 

PhiLonius

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Is Lacus Clyne Cosmic Era's Haman Khan?

So what say you, GundamGAF?

Haman and Lacus; polar opposite characters who share a similar hair color? Or is one a "heroic" retelling of the other?
Finally someone else sees the greatness that is Lacus Clyne.

But seriously, awesome post Corvo.

Still, Haman >
 
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Gundam Origin v2 chp 1-2

Char and Garma get all the good moments (and in color, nsfw? this volume, easily the best designed Gundam characters since Gundam Wing protagonists and antagonists. Was a bit disappointed Amuro had the doesnt want to fight thing so early in here...however, I do want to see that slap scene animated (by Bright). And he and Kai moments are kind of funny. Looking forward to how they get through the route to Jaburo.
 

CorvoSol

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You deserve a tag but it seems like no mods hang out in GundamGAF.
Getting a tag in Gundam GAF, lololol.

Finally someone else sees the greatness that is Lacus Clyne.

But seriously, awesome post Corvo.

Still, Haman >
Well duh, haha.

Gundam Origin v2 chp 1-2

Char and Garma get all the good moments (and in color, nsfw? this volume, easily the best designed Gundam characters since Gundam Wing protagonists and antagonists. Was a bit disappointed Amuro had the doesnt want to fight thing so early in here...however, I do want to see that slap scene animated (by Bright). And he and Kai moments are kind of funny. Looking forward to how they get through the route to Jaburo.
Ah, the gratuitous Char shower scene. That was a good'n.
 

Ezalc

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Gundam Movies

Alright I don't have much to say on this whole thing but I enjoyed the series. I don't know if the movie just cut out a lot of stuff, but there weren't all that many like huge epic battles in the show. Not that it's a bad thing, I can appreciate the smaller conflicts but it being some big war I found it a bit odd at times. Still I enjoyed the action when there it appeared and there was a lot of it, so pretty cool.

Overally I thought it was interesting that Amuro only really had to be careful in the first two or three? times he dueled against Char. Basically every other time after that Amuro clearly won, and probably would have killed him had Char not been as good as he was about acquiring an escape route in case things went south. Again this is only from watching the movies, I don't know if there were more duels that didn't make it in those. I found it weird that even though every time we see Char he basically gets a new more updated and advanced suit Amuro still manages to overcome him while only piloting the same Gundam he's had since the beginning of the show. I know that in part it's due to his newtype abilities awakening and his growth as a pilot, but Char I feel like sometimes Char should have been able to do some more damage to the Gundam, but I'll get to some things that bother me about the series later.

In terms of characters, I rather liked most of the group. Of course there wasn't all that much character development, mostly because I feel like the movies might have cut things in this regard for the larger more important plot points. This just made it seem like very few characters actually get developed in the long run. Kai being the one, to me, who showed the most change. He was a pretty giant cowardly asshole in the beginning and while that characteristic never really goes away, he does become a much better comrade and at times faces his cowardly instinct to run instead to actually stay and battle. He actually was a really good fighter as well.

Amuro on the other hand didn't seem to go much anywhere besides his newtype abilities developing. He's still seems distant from everyone and I guess awkward? His complete apathy towards his ailing father really made no sense to me. I know his father was an absent one but the man is still seriously ill, he should have at least taken him to a hospital or something so he wouldn't stay in his house going mad by himself. Aside from that I guess we see him mature a little bit from being something of a brat early on but I didn't get much else out of that. I really don't see any romance between him and Sayla either, don't know where that came from, even though he should have cuz Sayla fine as hell. Dat shower scene man.

Char really confuses me. At first I thought he was just going to be that cool villain that while on the wrong side still has honor and whatever so he isn't all bad. But when he talks about his ideals I actually sympathized with him more than Amuro, who seemed to be fighting just out of necessity and circumstance instead of having a clear goal as to why he's in the conflict. Yes I realize he has that moment with Lalah but it's never addressed again in the movies. But by the end even Char seems to kind of lose himself in what he's trying to do, that and his rivalry with Amuro just didn't strike a chord with me. Why do they continue fighting after the war? Why does this rivalry continue after Lalah's death. It's clear that they have the same goal, in a sense, of stopping the Zabi family. Honestly I just didn't understand this kind of mutual hatred between them, and I understand even less why the hell it continued for so long, but I guess I'll get to see why as I go through the series.

Now onto things that bothered me, well I guess I already started talking about that but here are some others. How in the hell does the Zeon colony even come close to matching an entire fucking planet plus whatever allied colonies they have in terms of resources, military might, and being more technologically advanced. This made no goddamend sense to me. They said that Zeon has 150 million people in the colony. That's it? Against a planet that should be more than 10 billion strong a little ass colony is doing that much damage? How the fuck did they manage that? I know numbers aren't everything but jesus I was constantly asking how they even managed to take territory on Earth given their immense disadvantage in terms of numbers alone. Speaking of which, what purpose would taking territory on Earth be to Zeon? They wanted their independence, why would you even bother having battles occur on land and not only on space? It's not like they're going to rule that territory all the way from the other side of the moon or whatever.

Also, how the fuck did the Gundam shoot the Zeong head while Amuro wasn't even in the cockpit? What the hell.

Finally, lol Hitler analogy. Intersting to see them say that Hitler was from the middle ages. Does that make our current middle ages their middle middle ages? Or would it be the fourth ages given that it'd be the half of our half?

I give this series, six Red Zakus out of seven White Devils.

Also goddamn it, Sleggar was pretty cool man. Wow apparently I had more to say on it than I thought.
 

Megalosaro

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Char and Garma are the best designed characters in Gundam since the Wing boys?

Wut, Dedication through Light. You do realize that Gundam The Origin uses the same designs and story as the VERY first Gundam series, right? Those character designs are nearly 20 years older than the Wing boys.

Ezacl, a lot of your problems stem from the fact the movies are so condensed. You see Amuro's shift more in the series than you do in the movies. I always found his development interesting. Most writers tend to make their characters become stronger through their development, and to a degree that's true for Amuro. By time White Base returns to space, everyone on board is a well-organized team, Amuro included. However, Amuro never becomes less awkward socially, and in a lot of ways it gets worse. In Zeta, as you will see, he's a recluse (though part of that is because he's basically under house arrest). In CCA, he's quite a veteran pilot at that point and he's confident in his abilities and convictions, but he's very cold at times to those around him.
 

Ezalc

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I figured the fact that I was watching the condensed version might have had an effect on all the things that bothered me. One day I'll sit down and actually watch the series.
 

Lostconfused

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It probably won't make that much more sense. Amuro between the movies and the show is the same, it's the other character that get more screen time in the show or have slightly different characterization.

You pretty much have to go through a town of supplementary material and everything else related to Universal Century to get the full picture and for it to make some kind of sense. But any who lets break this down.

I don't know if the movie just cut out a lot of stuff, but there weren't all that many like huge epic battles in the show.
Majority of the human population, everywhere colonies and earth, is already dead by the time the show starts. Both sides are stretched to the limit in terms of morale and the ability to continue the war.

I found it weird that even though every time we see Char he basically gets a new more updated and advanced suit Amuro still manages to overcome him while only piloting the same Gundam
That's because Char never did get a new mobile suit. He was still using his Zaku II which is significantly inferior to the Gundam. By the time the duel at the Texas Colony rolled around he had his Gelgoog but Amuro already fully awakened to his newtype potential. Char just could not compete with that.

But by the end even Char seems to kind of lose himself in what he's trying to do, that and his rivalry with Amuro just didn't strike a chord with me. Why do they continue fighting after the war?
Because that was the best way for Char to achieve his goal. To get revenge he had to keep acting like a proper Zeon soldier, or at least avoid raising enough suspicion so that he wouldn't get executed on the spot. Amuro and Char don't fight at all after the war is over.

How in the hell does the Zeon colony even come close to matching an entire fucking planet plus whatever allied colonies they have in terms of resources, military might, and being more technologically advanced.
Because the Earth Federation isn't more technologically advanced. They've been behind the tech curve for a very long time until they finally constructed the Gundam. Which is well after the war started. Not to mention that The Earth Federation is a broken, weak and corrupt bureaucracy while Zeon in its entirety is a militarized fascist state committed entirely to war.


Speaking of which, what purpose would taking territory on Earth be to Zeon?
Resources. M'Quve's most famous line is literally about Zeon being able to continue fighting thanks to the resources they managed to collect on earth.

Also, how the fuck did the Gundam shoot the Zeong head while Amuro wasn't even in the cockpit? What the hell.
Learning Computer
 

Megalosaro

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Lostconfused, he might not have gotten that M'quve line. His role in the movies is drastically reduced. But yeah. Another reason Zeon was able to fight their war was because they blitzed the Earth Federation. The first week of the war caught the Earth Federation completely off guard. All of those territory gains happened so quickly, the federation had no time to recover.

And if you think about it, Zeon's war effort actually wasn't that good. The whole war only lasted a year, stalemate included. Once the Federation was able to recover, Zeon was quickly swept under the rug.
 

CorvoSol

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I figured the fact that I was watching the condensed version might have had an effect on all the things that bothered me. One day I'll sit down and actually watch the series.
I watched the series, and I felt that most of the cast developed neatly. Amuro being the archetype for future protagonists, started out as a spoiled brat who, after several very important screw ups and tragedies, turned into a competent fighter. Kai goes from being a rat bastard to a decent, if still cunning guy. Frau kinda undergoes a similar arc to Amuro's but away from battle. She has to put up with all kinds of shit on the ship, and it makes her grow up a lot faster than him. Sayla has her loyalties tested, Mirai has her whole stumbling through love thing and Bright goes from a hot-head with uncertainties to the Father Figure of Gundam Protagonists everywhere. The only one I didn't see a lot of growth in was Hayato, and I'd lay that more over the fact that he's a fairly levelheaded guy to begin with.

Char . . . man I don't know where I sit with Char's character. He kinda seems to bounce around to me. In Mobile Suit Gundam he's driven by his desire for revenge and winds up doing things he'd rather not because of it, eventually losing basically everyone he cared for in the process
his quest gets Lalah and Garma killed and Sayla never speaks to him again.
Then in Zeta I dunno, cuz the dub sorta murdered the show to me. He's like, depressed I guess. I guess that both Amuro and Char are in Zeta. But he's more upbeat than someone who should be depressed, I guess. Then suddenly, after spending all of Zeta being bros with Amuro and helping saving the Earth, he's a villain in CCA again and raging against the world.

I dunno. CCA Char's big problem for me is his beef with Amuro over Lalah. It doesn't make sense that they put aside their differences for a full series and then suddenly they're at each other's throats
after he was supposed to be dead!

I know I'll garner some dislike for this, but Char reminds me of no one less than Darth Vader. A super cool villain who is really well known and awesome in his debut and principle works but . . . kinda mishandled as time goes on. Char isn't AS mishandled as Vader was in the prequels, certainly not, but that's the vibe I get. Vader and Char were awesome characters and everyone wanted more, but too much of a good thing turned out wrong.
 

ambientmystic

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The only one I didn't see a lot of growth in was Hayato, and I'd lay that more over the fact that he's a fairly levelheaded guy to begin with.
Out of all of the MSG characters I reckon actually he's one of the more decent/mature ones in his day to day dealings with the others. With a tonne of integrity to boot.

I'd argue he did most of his growing up post MSG and in the leadup to Zeta and that he actually supersedes a few of the MSG characters in personal growth. (Amuro in particular )

Consider the following:-

He actually got Fraw Bow to settle down with him post MSG and adopted the 3 orphans as part of the package. This speaks extremely well of him as a person.

He was the one who founded Karaba and became its leader throughout the Zeta/ZZ timeline, thereby showing initiative. It was apparent from the way that he commanded his subordinates and how at ease he was while the whole enterprise.

He is forceful when he needs to be. He got rather physical with his adopted son Kaz for being stupid, thereby inheriting some of the mannerisms that Bright Noa is much more famous for. The younger Hayato seemed like the more mellow type.

There are a bunch more things I can list, but these are the ones at the top of head at the moment.

In conclusion:-


Hayato in Zeta/ZZ is a rather very different person as compared to Hayato in MSG. In so many different ways. He did not stagnate at all.
 

CorvoSol

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Out of all of the MSG characters I reckon actually he's one of the more decent/mature ones in his day to day dealings with the others. With a tonne of integrity to boot.

I'd argue he did most of his growing up post MSG and in the leadup to Zeta and that he actually supersedes a few of the MSG characters in personal growth. (Amuro in particular )

Consider the following:-

He got Fraw Bow to settle down with him post MSG and adopted the 3 orphans as part of the package. This speaks extremely well of him as a person.

He was the one who founded Karaba and became its leader throughout the Zeta/ZZ timeline, thereby showing initiative. It was apparent from the way that he commanded his subordinates and how at ease he was while the whole enterprise.

He is forceful when he needs to be. He got rather physical with his adopted son Kaz for being stupid, thereby inheriting some of the mannerisms that Bright Noa is much more famous for. The younger Hayato seemed like the more mellow type.

There are a bunch more things I can list, but these are the ones at the top of head at the moment.

In conclusion:-

Hayato in Zeta/ZZ is a rather very different person as compared to Hayato in MSG. In so many different ways. He did not stagnate at all.
Yeah, like I said. Hayato was a pretty level-headed guy. The only times I saw him not acting like he had his wits about him was when he was pissed off by Amuro, and given that Amuro managed to piss off even Gentle Giant Ryu, I'd say that was only fair. Especially since Hayato had feelings for Frau, and Frau spent a lot of her time trying to get with Amuro.
 

Megalosaro

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Ryu is so different in the origin. More forceful and less derpish. In fact he is pretty much the leader of white bases' mobile suit corps.
 

CorvoSol

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Ryu is so different in the origin. More forceful and less derpish. In fact he is pretty much the leader of white bases' mobile suit corps.
I liked Ryu in the series, though. He was an upstanding dude who didn't let the fact that he had legit no expertise get in the way of the fact that he kicked some royal ass.
 

Megalosaro

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I liked Ryu in the series, though. He was an upstanding dude who didn't let the fact that he had legit no expertise get in the way of the fact that he kicked some royal ass.
Yeah, he's still like that in The Origin, but amplified. He's much more no nonsense and pragmatic
 

Megalosaro

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UC Gundam is pretty good about diversity IMHO.

In First, the crew is:

Hong Kong British/Chinese (Bright)
Japanese x 2 (Mirai and Hayato)
Hispanic (Ryu)
Puerto Rican (Kai)
Canadian (or Mexican in Gundam The Origin): Amuro
German: Fraw

Not sure what Sayla is. Some sort of Northern European though
 

ambientmystic

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UC Gundam is pretty good about diversity IMHO.

In First, the crew is:

Hong Kong British/Chinese (Bright)
Japanese x 2 (Mirai and Hayato)
Hispanic (Ryu)
Puerto Rican (Kai)
Canadian (or Mexican in Gundam The Origin): Amuro
German: Fraw

Not sure what Sayla is. Some sort of Northern European though
Kai Shiden is Puerto Rican.

You've got to be yanking my chain Megalosaro, the name sounds Japanese to me.

I mean really? I guess names aren't everything.
 

CorvoSol

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Judau Ashta is the Slick As Fuck race, and Roux Louka comes from the Planet of Fine Ass Ladies.

These are actual ethnic groups and planets. I saw this on a show about science.
 

ambientmystic

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I wonder whether colonists living in outer space still identify themselves as belonging to a certain racial/ethnic group even after generations of life on the colonies?

Even more so when I think about the folks in the Jupiter Energy Fleet. I don't think they even think of themselves as related to the Earth Sphere anymore.

They're even referred to as "aliens" by the Zeon themselves in a way lol.
 
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