The people that jumped out of the twin towers during the 9/11 attacks

[Kraftwerk]

I was just watching this short clip about the attack and talking to some firefighters.

There is a section where they are at the base and you hear people just smashing and making a thunderous sound every time they hit the ground. The firefighters are in shock. These are the people who chose to jump instead of burning.

Asking from a linguistic perspective and in order to define what happened; are their deaths considered suicide?

I am merely curious how religious groups would approach this matter.

Are there doctrines in place that say if you are in a situation and you have to chose the least painful way then it is allowed(?)

And sorry as I know this is a very sensitive topic for some people, not trying to be edgy here. Just asking a sincere question.

I've been reading a lot of books lately about theology and philosophy to just understand things more and just gain knowledge, and this question has been on my mind.

 

[Trash]

religious people probably think they're jumping into hell

 

[whytemyke]

Religious groups would almost assuredly call it suicide I'm sure. That being said, religious or not, you'd be a monster to stand in judgment of anyone who had to make that decision and didn't do what you'd have preferred them to do.

 

[nilbog21]

LMAO they are not committing suicide.. Look up volition

 

[TheOfficeMut]

LMAO they are not committing suicide.. Look up volition

Yea so "LMAO," isn't it?

 

[GamingOblivion]

Link to the clip?

 

[nortonff]

I wouldn't consider it suicide. I think that, in a situation like that, your brain just reacts instinctively to get out of it.

 

[Skiptastic]

Different doctrines will have different views on it. There is no one answer in Christian theology, let alone all religions.

 

[Kraftwerk]

LMAO they are not committing suicide.. Look up volition

that the weirdest "lmao" I have seen yet

Link to the clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tgQ75GxAZk&feature=youtu.be&t=5m8s

 

[brochiller]

Religious groups would almost assuredly call it suicide I'm sure. That being said, religious or not, you'd be a monster to stand in judgment of anyone who had to make that decision and didn't do what you'd have preferred them to do.

That's never stopped religious groups from judging before.

 

[MogCakes]

To be in that situation would be beyond fathoming. No way is that suicide.

 

[bluelightningduo]

LMAO they are not committing suicide.. Look up volition

So funny. Death is hilarious.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Burning to death is greater suffering, which in turn brings you closer to Jesus. It worked for Mother Theresa, so I'm assuming it works here.

 

[JordanN]

They fell out or were pushed out of the towers.

They were surrounded by smoke and fire, leaving very little oxygen. Windows were the only source of fresh air. They couldn't stay inside or they would be burned, suffocated or eventually crushed by the collapsing floors. Humans natural reaction is to do anything to stay alive.

 

[wenis]

Hmm, I'd hope religious groups that take suicide very seriously could see the practicality of the choice. It's a no win choice obviously, but I can't imagine anyone would rather burn to death and go down with the building to appease a god than make their own last choice in the matter that would mean a whole lot less suffering overall.

I've never encountered a piece of scripture though in Catholicism that would allow suicide in moments of great duress. I'd be interested to know if there was.

 

[creatchee]

Religions deal in absolutes. Any that say that jumping out of a burning building to avoid burning to death is not suicide would be forced to comment similarly on terminal illness and other reasons for suicide.

 

[brandonh83]

Suicide is when you take your life by choice.

 

[SolKane]

I think this would be considered accidental death (by suicide). Did they truly intend to die, or were they submitting to what seemed the only recourse?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

religious people probably think they're jumping into hell

Not really, no. You'd be hard pressed to get that answer outside of some very hardcore American Evangelical types.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Strictly speaking, it is suicide to escape a painful, more prolonged death in fire and smoke. A right to die argument can certainly be spun out of this tragic scenario.

 

[metalslimer]

God I just remembered seeing that as kid and slowly realizing what those people were doing. What an awful choice to make

 

[parrotbeak]

There is an excellent documentary about the falling man picture and attempts to identify him. There was strong resistance from one family because they believed it was suicide and they didn't want to believe it was possibly their son.

I think it's this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810746/

 

[Concrete Charlie]

The flames forced them out.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I was 11 when 9/11 took place. Out of everything I saw on the news that happened in the US that day, it was the images of the people falling to their deaths that haunted me the most. I have had recurring nightmares about it for years. Still do sometimes.

I can't imagine what it just have been or felt like to feel like they had no choice but to jump. Especially those moments knowing that this was it - they were about to die.

Those poor people.

But on-topic: I don't think any reasonable person would consider that to be suicide.

 

[Muffdraul]

Those people didn't choose to kill themselves, the only choice they made was an instant painless death over an excruciatingly painful death. They didn't commit suicide. They were murdered by the 19 highjackers in the name of Islam.

 

[nilbog21]

So funny. Death is hilarious.

I'm laughing at the absolute absurdity of the question, not to mention how fucking insulting. You're asking if those who jumped from the WTC are going to hell for jumping off to avoid being scorched to death, is that right?

 

[James Scott]

I'm pretty sure God wouldn't look down on these people for jumping

 

[Dice]

I don't think anyone who understands what theology is would say that.

Even aside from theological positions on suicide, I fail to see how those people were choosing death over life. When sitting in a raging inferno and thinking "Maybe I'll live" is equally as likely as jumping out of a building and thinking "Maybe I'll live" how were they cutting their days short by jumping? If a tornado is heading directly at you do you just stand there because the "Lord hath ordained" or do you move out of the way because he gave you a brain and expects you to use it?

 

[Stinkles]

Those people were murdered. The end.

The same religions who would call that suicide would also stone you to death for kissing your partner or wearing a wool scarf with a silk shirt.

So they can STFU.

 

[Syder]

I don't think suffocate on aviation fuel fumes/burn to death or jump out of a building is considered suicide.

 

[parrotbeak]

It's also interesting how it was treated officially. When the documentarian who was trying to research this, the city coroner's office (iirc) told him no one jumped, it was people blown out of the windows by the blast.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I would imagine if you were stood at the window with flames right up your back, 99% of people would jump. It's not really a question of suicide.

It must still be very hard to overcome the survival instinct and make the jump, even if you know you will die anyway. Poor people.

 

[Respect]

My heart just drops simply trying to imagine what those people were going through in those moments...

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's obviously not suicide. They wouldn't have jumped if the fire didn't force them to.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I'm laughing at the absolute absurdity of the question, not to mention how fucking insulting. You're asking if those who jumped from the WTC are going to hell for jumping off to avoid being scorched to death, is that right?

How is it an absurd question when there are clearly people who would interpret it as suicide, especially those who are religious?

So take a step back.

 

[CosmicQueso]

How is it an absurd question when there are clearly people who would interpret it as suicide, especially those who are religious?

So take a step back.

Seriously? Fuck the religious people asking that. Who the fuck do they think they are.

Those poor people were murdered in a terrorist act. That's it.

Disgusting thread.

 

[creatchee]

Those people were murdered. The end.

The same religions who would call that suicide would also stone you to death for kissing your partner or wearing a wool scarf with a silk shirt.

So they can STFU.

You've indirectly referenced content in the holy books of the world's two largest religions.

I see what you did there

 

[D4Danger]

How is it an absurd question when there are clearly people who would interpret it as suicide, especially those who are religious?

So take a step back.

wouldn't staying in a burning building also be considered suicide?

Who are they to judge anyone anyway. fuck them.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

I was in college when it happened and I remember when the paper came out with that guy falling to his death. It never once occurred to me it was because of suicide, though some people ITT are making some interesting points. Still, I do not consider suicide at all, that had to have been horrible to go through in your last mins of life.

Also, I remember hearing that some may have died from heart attacks before even hitting the ground.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

wouldn't staying in a burning building also be considered suicide?

Who are they to judge anyone anyway. fuck them.

Fuck people like that, indeed.

 

[cheststrongwell]

I grew up very conservative and religious, and mostly heard that people who commit suicide aren't in their right mind and that God would take that into account.

 

[backflip10019]

How is it an absurd question when there are clearly people who would interpret it as suicide, especially those who are religious?

So take a step back.

None of those people would've jumped if they weren't forced to. They made a decision to die on their own terms when survival was impossible. They were murdered.

Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

 

[Kraftwerk]

I'm laughing at the absolute absurdity of the question, not to mention how fucking insulting. You're asking if those who jumped from the WTC are going to hell for jumping off to avoid being scorched to death, is that right?

Its a question, that is it. I am not religious at all myself, but still wanted to ask the question due to curiosity and seeing what other think; as it is a discussion.

 

[Media]

None of the deaths during the 9/11 attacks were classed legally as suicide, even though we have photographic evidence of certain people jumping. There is your answer, I believe. Any of the religious organizations in the US usually follow the legal police reports of cause of death and such.

 

[Speevy]

Suicides are generally those situations in which you have an option to live at least a while longer.

If you're about to be burned alive and you jump out a window, you might actually feel you're saving yourself from the worst fate instead of resigning to it. Otherwise firefighters who run into burning buildings and never come out are committing suicide.

 

[Krejlooc]

I think it's so trashy that they played video of those people jumping over and over and over again after 9/11. Live, i can understand, you're caught in the moment. But after some time for reflection, it seems sick to me to highly publicize such an awful moment for those people..

And for the record, I don't think this is suicide. Weird as it may sound, I think it was some sort of form of self preservation brought on by temporary insanity.

 

[Lead]

Unfortunately I know a couple of people that talked about this as suicides back when it happened, and yes these people were devout Catholics, didn't think much of it, but on reflection it really is messed up.

 

[Twilight Princess]

If they used their clothes as gliders, do you guys think it would have helped?

 

[Sanjuro]

Funny, I was just viewing disturbing content related from a reddit thread today.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

None of those people would've jumped if they weren't forced to. They made a decision to die on their own terms when survival was impossible. They were murdered.

Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Okay, but that's not my point? I was responding to someone who said that posing the question is absurd, as if everyone absolutely agrees that it isn't suicide, when that is clearly not the case and the OP reflected that sentiment and wanted to simply understand why someone would think so.

That's all.