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The power of Ray Tracing

SupremeHoodie

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HOLY SHIT ?!

That' a GTAV mode ?!!

It's a fucking shame you can't increase the NPC and car count in the PC version of the game to really make it looks realistic. When I had this game on PC that was the only mod I was hoping someone would come up with and was constantly checking the mod forums if there was one available. Having upwards of 100 cars and NPC's on screen in the busier parts of the City should be easy for a powerful PC to handle.
Cyberpunk suffers from this too. Having high density npc was a cpu bottleneck on the consoles last gen. Assassins Creed unity was the only game that actually attempted to push the console limits and we all saw that led to some game breaking glitches.

Hopefullyas this new gen progresses we’ll see more high density open world games because now consoles have very good cpus in them.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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What is several magnitudes more powerful than the new consoles? The 3090 itself or some aspect of it?

I'm kinda curious if you know what "several magnitudes" means ... :messenger_grinning_smiling:
Dude, what do you think ps5 will be, in the equivalent of turing performance? Especially with supposed lower performance than XSX? I don't understand the misconception.
 
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Dr Bass

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Dude, what do you think ps5 will be, in the equivalent of turing performance? Especially with supposed lower performance than XSX? I don't understand the misconception.
Exact numbers? Don't know, don't care. I play games for fun and fun only. I know PCs are more powerful than consoles, even when the consoles launch. I also do some graphics programming on the side for fun, because I'm interested in the subject.

Some of the verbiage used by PC fans here though is just funny. An order of magnitude is literally a way to refer to a 10x increase in something.

Going around saying a 3090 is "several magnitudes" greater than the next-gen consoles is just goofy hyperbole and it made me laugh, dude.
 

Md Ray

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Hahaha.
Yeah VXGI on AMD consoles.....okay buddy.
That was running on 1080 Ti... Console GPUs should at least be on par with that GPU or better as they have added new features that aren't present on 1080 Ti. On top of that, the UE5 demo already has some form of GI that looks just like that, if not better.
 
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Exact numbers? Don't know, don't care. I play games for fun and fun only. I know PCs are more powerful than consoles, even when the consoles launch. I also do some graphics programming on the side for fun, because I'm interested in the subject.

Some of the verbiage used by PC fans here though is just funny. An order of magnitude is literally a way to refer to a 10x increase in something.

Going around saying a 3090 is "several magnitudes" greater than the next-gen consoles is just goofy hyperbole and it made me laugh, dude.

I think everybody plays for fun, thats the point of gaming. A 3090 is around 2.5 to 3 times faster than paper specs of ps5. Could be higher in practice, we need to wait and see how the ps5 actually performa in real life scenarios. Raytracing is probably gonna be around 5 times weaker than a 3090. So there is in fact an extremely large power uplift from a ps5 to a 3080/90
 

VFXVeteran

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I think everybody plays for fun, thats the point of gaming. A 3090 is around 2.5 to 3 times faster than paper specs of ps5. Could be higher in practice, we need to wait and see how the ps5 actually performa in real life scenarios. Raytracing is probably gonna be around 5 times weaker than a 3090. So there is in fact an extremely large power uplift from a ps5 to a 3080/90
Thank you.
 
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UnNamed

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When not used to create ponds only.



And this is a mod. Imagine what new games could achieve with proper implementation of complex lighting and shading.

Let's hope RT doesn't become a simple reflection gimmick, it has potential to much much more.
Is this path tracing? I can see some real RT reflections on cars. In any case it is more next gen than the actual next gen.
 

regawdless

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Uncharted had some indoor environments with similar baked lighting playable on ps4!
Looks good of course, but totally static. It's like walking through a museum. This shows the current limitations.

Movable objects and other characters would be lit wrong here without RT. No dynamic light source would look right etc.

With RT, you could implement physics and the objects would still be lit correctly. Dynamic clouds could change the lighting etc.
 

Black_Stride

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That was running on 1080 Ti... Console GPUs should at least be on par with that GPU or better as they have added new features that aren't present on 1080 Ti. On top of that, the UE5 demo already has some form of GI that looks just like that, if not better.
You guys are all friking missing the point or dont know what you are talking about and think just because tis a pair of 1080Ti which are 2 generations old the PS5s GPU can beat them at whatever the 1080s are doing.....even if that demo had nearly 20GB of VRAM usage.


VXGI that technique specifically NOT UE4, NOT a GI solution thats Voxel based, Not Lumen, NOT general GI, NOT Scanned data......the actual technique known as Nvidia VXGI used in that video thats showing a custom Nvidia build of UE4 with VXGI active.....would never be possible on an AMD powered PS5....no developer would be stupid enough to port an Nvidia specific(optimized) technique that was already too heavy for any game to even utilize onto the PS5 using an old build of UE4 because VXGI builds of UE4 arent being maintained anymore.

If you are talking about other forms of GI cite them im not doubting GI will be on consoles, but dont show me VXGI and say look its running on 2x1080Tis so this can obviously run on the PS5.
Because, Ill walk you home....>VXGI was hella expensive yes it look good, but that cost was so high nobody used it.

It won't be vxgi.

But if someone takes vxgi decompiles it and optimizes it for rdna2, and raytracing hardware does benefit it, expect it to run better than on an nvidia 1080ti.

If ray tracing hardware does benefit voxel illumination expect an identical technique to run at higher performance than a 1080ti on amd.

We just need some nextgen exclusives to smoke these 'skeptics'. The Unreal Engine 5 demo, that rumors say ran near 60fps on ps5 dev kits, was not enough to quiet their skepticism.

When they were considering SVOGI and hyping it up for games was because had the consoles been slightly more powerful they could probably run it at 30fps.
Who is this "someone" who is going to get Nvidias VXGI and reverse engineer it just to make sure it runs well on the PS5?
What the fuck are you talking about.?
 
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Dampf

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RTXGI will change everything. It allows for very performant dynamic Global Ilumination using hw accelerated RT and even runs decently without Raytracing acceleration.


Raytracing will kickstart a whole new era of lighting in games.
 

Phrixotrichus

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Consoles can drop to 1080p and match any GPU at 4k for next few years.
DLSS 4k performance mode already is 1080p internally....
Even with Ampere cards a feature like DLSS is a must if you want extensive RT, and AMD is also lacking hardware like Nvidia`s Tensor cores....

There is no way console GPUs can match the PC on any resolution level from day one.
 
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RoadHazard

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I happen to prefer Unreal Engine Apartment fly through's that are photorealistic compared to this.

In many instances, a near 100% Consistent level of photorealism has been achieved without the need to include RTX features.

And there is no reason next gen consoles couldn't actually do far better than what is shown below (some over 2 years old, some reach back 7 years)









That stuff looks very nice, but it does not actually look photorealistic. It's still very obviously computer graphics.
 
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OSC

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Looks good of course, but totally static. It's like walking through a museum. This shows the current limitations.

Movable objects and other characters would be lit wrong here without RT. No dynamic light source would look right etc.

With RT, you could implement physics and the objects would still be lit correctly. Dynamic clouds could change the lighting etc.
It has a form of global illumination that can handle moving objects. The question is whether limited ray tracing would be any more accurate than it.
You guys are all friking missing the point or dont know what you are talking about and think just because tis a pair of 1080Ti which are 2 generations old the PS5s GPU can beat them at whatever the 1080s are doing.....even if that demo had nearly 20GB of VRAM usage.
The guy's website says my rig has two 1080tis but I use a single 1080ti for realtime work

Be afraid of the power of playstation.
 

OSC

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That stuff looks very nice, but it does not actually look photorealistic. It's still very obviously computer graphics.
I actually thought Andy Serkis was computer generated in some of the unreal videos. Some of those might be actual photogrammetry. Sometimes you find even real world stuff to look fake.
 

vaibhavpisal

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DLSS 4k performance mode already is 1080p internally....
Even with Ampere cards a feature like DLSS is a must if you want extensive RT, and AMD is also lacking hardware like Nvidia`s Tensor cores....

There is no way console GPUs can match the PC on any resolution level from day one.
So devs will come up with a game with extensive ray tracing that will barely be 30 fps at 1080p, on a 3090?

Wake me up when such a title release.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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You don't think so? Even the same architecture of RDNA2 cards will be better than console GPU's, which will be behind Nvidia's high end GPU's. You can save my quote too. Anyone who thinks a $500 subsidized box will beat out a mid to high end GPU from last gen or this gen, is smoking mids or brick weed.
 

vaibhavpisal

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You don't think so? Even the same architecture of RDNA2 cards will be better than console GPU's, which will be behind Nvidia's high end GPU's. You can save my quote too. Anyone who thinks a $500 subsidized box will beat out a mid to high end GPU from last gen or this gen, is smoking mids or brick weed.
Do read what he/she is quoting. That 'any resolution level' part of the conversation..

Edit: he/she
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Do read what he/she is quoting. That 'any resolution level' part of the conversation..

Edit: he/she
I read what they said, and with the level of details, it won't match any resolution. I'm not sure what your missing here? A 2080 will still perform better at a high or low resolution. Same with the 30xx series.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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be merciful, master race.
It wasn't meant to be condensing. But when you don't have a small power budget, more shaders, dedicated raytracing HW, higher bandwidth, etc, it just won't compare. At the same time it usually has a higher price as well. You won't get these benefits if you buy the GPU alone, you'll still need the rest of the PC to get it running, so there's that.
 

Black_Stride

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It has a form of global illumination that can handle moving objects. The question is whether limited ray tracing would be any more accurate than it.

The guy's website says my rig has two 1080tis but I use a single 1080ti for realtime work

Be afraid of the power of playstation.
Rens upgraded to 2080Tis a while ago before he started flushing everything.

The VXGI demo the one you posted was using both his 1080ti and was very VRAM heavy because he rendered it at 4K with a bunch of 8K textures.
Why are we still even talking about this?
Abandon your Nvidia VXGI on PS5 delusion dont @ me, you arent saying anything worth discussing.
 

OSC

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Rens upgraded to 2080Tis a while ago before he started flushing everything.

The VXGI demo the one you posted was using both his 1080ti and was very VRAM heavy because he rendered it at 4K with a bunch of 8K textures.
Why are we still even talking about this?
Abandon your Nvidia VXGI on PS5 delusion dont @ me, you arent saying anything worth discussing.
My setup:
Dual 1080TI in SLI
(using single gpu for real time work)
Intel Core i7 5960X
Asus X99-E WS
Corsair 64GB DDR4 2400MHz

Acer 28" Predator XB281HK G-Sync 4K
source

An interview with rens prior to 2080ti release date.

Interview with rens FEB 2018
2080ti release date SEP 2018
AKA HE HAD THESE DEMOS PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF THE 2080TI

The video I posted is from someone running's rens demo and this are his specs.
PC specs :
Mainboard: Asus Prime x470-Pro CPU:
Ryzen 7 1800X 4,2Ghz RAM:
Corsair Vengeance 16Gb RAM Graca:
MSi Armor GTX 1080 ti 11Gb 2000Mhz SSD:
Crucial mx500 2TB HDD:
Seagate Barracuda 4TB
Again running on single 1080ti.

Same art by rens demo 2017 aug as number 1 in the list

tweet from rens march 2017 about the demo

AKA these demos are from 2017 when the 2080ti was not even on the horizon.

There's no reason for you to fear the ps5's power, just marvel at it.
 
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Kodiak

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Late-stage PS4 games already look ridiculously fucking good to me. Maybe it's because I've been gaming since the NES days, but stuff like God of War and Last of Us 2 just look unreal to me.
I can't imagine what games will look like by the end of this new console generation.

Between ray-tracing, stuff like DLSS, and further advances in VR, games are going to be almost scary realistic in 7 years time.
 
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cragarmi

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I read what they said, and with the level of details, it won't match any resolution. I'm not sure what your missing here? A 2080 will still perform better at a high or low resolution. Same with the 30xx series.
Conveniently difficult to prove if a console game does not have an unlocked framrate. But if a console is using the same settings as PC at 4k and 60fps, I feel that is as good as.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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They can definitely use the same settings, the question is, what settings are they using? Just like how RDR2 looks night and day difference to console gameplay, because they use much lower settings, and sometimes low settings. Even running medium to high settings wouldn't do as much justice, as there are still high and ultra quality settings, and sometimes an insane setting, or "can you run this" setting.
 
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Humans still look gamey. And good luck getting that kind of character fidelity into an actual game. As usual, mouth and teeth are always an issue.

Epic does this every time making it seems like it's a breeze to add this kind of quality into a game. They had that Samaritan UE3 demo almost 10 years ago. No games looked like that. Not even on PC.

However, the new UE5 engine does make dirt, rocks and earthy stuff look good.
 
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ShadowLag

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RT can also be used for things like more realistic audio simulation and better AI... but those things aren't cool enough to feature in trailers I guess!
 

Phrixotrichus

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An interview with rens prior to 2080ti release date.

Interview with rens FEB 2018
2080ti release date SEP 2018
AKA HE HAD THESE DEMOS PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF THE 2080TI

The video I posted is from someone running's rens demo and this are his specs.

Again running on single 1080ti.

Same art by rens demo 2017 aug as number 1 in the list

tweet from rens march 2017 about the demo

AKA these demos are from 2017 when the 2080ti was not even on the horizon.

There's no reason for you to fear the ps5's power, just marvel at it.
Those graphics-tech demos have about as much in common with real time load from a game as a virgin with a pornstar.
No doubt ND and CO are going to create magic again this gen, but some expectations are just impossible to meet.
 
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RT can also be used for things like more realistic audio simulation and better AI... but those things aren't cool enough to feature in trailers I guess!
RT can be used for AI? I thought it's more of a visual and audio thing.

But good luck getting game companies to get programmers to make better AI. Given the choice, they rather have them do more realistic looking eyelashes than smarter monsters, NPC companions, or AI teammates in sports games.
 
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Those graphics-tech demos have about as much in common with real time load from a game as a virgin with a pornstar.
No doubt ND and CO are going to create magic again this gen, but some expectations are just impossible to meet.
Ya.

Demo dude #1: I just made the awesomest looking volcano in UE5

Demo dude #2: I just made a human face so perfect nobody can tell it's made on PC

Gamers: Ok, what about gameplay, physics, AI, different game modes, destruction, big maps, open ended vs linear levels, online mode with 64 other gamers, audio and accurately lip syncing it, animations and how it all comes together so it looks right?

Demo dudes: Duhhhhhhhh
 
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Sagii86

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Those graphics-tech demos have about as much in common with real time load from a game as a virgin with a pornstar.
No doubt ND and CO are going to create magic again this gen, but some expectations are just impossible to meet.
I wouldn't hurry making assumptions. Some good stuff coming in the near future. RT is not the issue, but resolution.
 
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Black_Stride

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An interview with rens prior to 2080ti release date.

Interview with rens FEB 2018
2080ti release date SEP 2018
AKA HE HAD THESE DEMOS PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF THE 2080TI

The video I posted is from someone running's rens demo and this are his specs.

Again running on single 1080ti.

Same art by rens demo 2017 aug as number 1 in the list

tweet from rens march 2017 about the demo

AKA these demos are from 2017 when the 2080ti was not even on the horizon.

There's no reason for you to fear the ps5's power, just marvel at it.

God I told you not to @ me.
Nvidias VXGI is NOT coming to a PS5 title near you.



He flushed alot of his videos and his website but trust me VXGI is NOT going to be running on PS5 and his demos wouldnt work as a game on said console.
I dont know why we are still talking about this?
 

ShadowLag

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RT can be used for AI? I thought it's more of a visual and audio thing.

But good luck getting game companies to get programmers to make better AI. Given the choice, they rather have them do more realistic looking eyelashes than smarter monsters, NPC companions, or AI teammates in sports games.
Indeed... imagine things like a super next-gen Splinter Cell / MGS where the AI is able to realistically see small parts of your realistic, ray-traced shadow - only to become suspicious and start investigating! The processing power and time investment involved, at least for current (PS5/SX) gen is probably too costly for anyone but Kojima himself right now though.
 
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He flushed alot of his videos and his website but trust me VXGI is NOT going to be running on PS5 and his demos wouldnt work as a game on said console.
I dont know why we are still talking about this?
Because every time Epic releases new UE engine demo videos every 5 years, console gamers and PC riggers dream about "would, could, should" that kind of fidelity come to my games anytime soon.

Full featured games at demo video visual fidelity.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Because every time Epic releases new UE engine demo videos every 5 years, console gamers and PC riggers dream about "would, could, should" that kind of fidelity come to my games anytime soon.

Full featured games at demo video visual fidelity.


THE SHADOW POP IN IS VISIBLE IN THAT VIDEO..........WOULD RAY TRACED SHADOWS ELIMINATE THAT?
Not even raytracing could fix that, only the ps5 could 💪 💪 .


still love you bro Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem