• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The press reaction to USA's China travel ban...back in January

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
I have no doubt in my mind that the travel ban was mostly a political move from Trump than a true health concern. That was confirmed for me the moment he banned flights from Europe except the UK, just because the UK is his "friend" and he has been confronting the rest of Europe for a while now. Allowing flights from the UK made no sense from a health POV if health was really his concern to banning all flights from Europe. But no matter his motives, he got it right with China.
 
Last edited:

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
6,920
10,934
950
The media is owned by the ones paying their paychecks. The owners have financial interests that are linked to China. For profit, corporate media is every bit as dangerous as state run media.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
21,556
45,358
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
This is all you got?
Wow, much rebuttal. Such effort.

The Trump administration’s decision to ban most foreign nationals who had been to China in the last two weeks from traveling to the United States amid an accelerating outbreak of a novel coronavirus there was preceded by calls for similar policies from conservative lawmakers and far-right supporters of the president. Public health experts, however, warn that the move could do more harm than good.

There it is in print. This was all just something far-right supporters and conservative lawmakers wanted to do. Those scumbags.

I have no doubt in my mind that the travel ban was mostly a political move from Trump than a true health concern. That was confirmed for me the moment he banned flights from Europe except the UK, just because the UK is his "friend" and he has been confronting the rest of Europe for a while now. Allowing flights from the UK made no sense from a health POV if health was really his concern to banning all flights from Europe. But no matter his motives, he got it right with China.
Delusions of mind-reading are getting out of hand. Makes it intimidating to have a conversation on GAF when there are so many 350 IQ geniuses who can out-think world leaders. 🤭
 

Vicetrailia

Member
Mar 12, 2019
1,347
754
420
Wow, much rebuttal. Such effort.

The Trump administration’s decision to ban most foreign nationals who had been to China in the last two weeks from traveling to the United States amid an accelerating outbreak of a novel coronavirus there was preceded by calls for similar policies from conservative lawmakers and far-right supporters of the president. Public health experts, however, warn that the move could do more harm than good.

There it is in print. This was all just something far-right supporters and conservative lawmakers wanted to do. Those scumbags.


Delusions of mind-reading are getting out of hand. Makes it intimidating to have a conversation on GAF when there are so many 350 IQ geniuses who can out-think world leaders. 🤭
Yeah that's what I was looking for. That's a TDS freak out. The Vox and BuzzFeed content wasn't exactly TDS even if the scepticism is driven by it.
 
Last edited:

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
Wow, much rebuttal. Such effort.

The Trump administration’s decision to ban most foreign nationals who had been to China in the last two weeks from traveling to the United States amid an accelerating outbreak of a novel coronavirus there was preceded by calls for similar policies from conservative lawmakers and far-right supporters of the president. Public health experts, however, warn that the move could do more harm than good.

There it is in print. This was all just something far-right supporters and conservative lawmakers wanted to do. Those scumbags.


Delusions of mind-reading are getting out of hand. Makes it intimidating to have a conversation on GAF when there are so many 350 IQ geniuses who can out-think world leaders. 🤭
Lol is not like Trump is too difficult to read
 

pennythots

Member
May 14, 2019
1,563
2,533
475
Sadly it wasn't enough. Should have put out a formal warning that if you leave you weren't getting back in until this blows over. Restrict all travel as well.

Next time we'll be better prepared.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,053
8,087
460
I have no doubt in my mind that the travel ban was mostly a political move from Trump than a true health concern. That was confirmed for me the moment he banned flights from Europe except the UK, just because the UK is his "friend" and he has been confronting the rest of Europe for a while now. Allowing flights from the UK made no sense from a health POV if health was really his concern to banning all flights from Europe. But no matter his motives, he got it right with China.
The UK had the least amount of confirmed cases and the least amount of deaths.

Also this thread is about the travel ban in Janurary 31st. Not in March. Why are you even brining it up as if the situation hasn't changed?

Yeah that's what I was looking for. That's a TDS freak out. The Vox and BuzzFeed content wasn't exactly TDS even if the scepticism is driven by it.
You are in denial.

By the way. Vox is going back and editing their articles to remove the word Chinese and wuhan
 
Last edited:

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
Why are you even brining it up as if the situation hasn't changed?
Because it explains to me how his decisions were mostly politically motivated. Yeah the situation has changed, that doesn't change that his decisions initially could have been politically motivated
 

oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,053
8,087
460
Because it explains to me how his decisions were mostly politically motivated. Yeah the situation has changed, that doesn't change that his decisions initially could have been politically motivated
Do you read the nonsense you write? If this was purely about politics, he wouldn't ban anyone from Europe.

I noticed you completely ignored the facts around the UK's infection rate as well, and I struggle to see the relevance to the janurary travel ban. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall of conspiracy theories and bullshit.
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
12,490
21,824
905
By the way. Vox is going back and editing their articles to remove the word Chinese and wuhan
No they aren't. They never wrote those words. They've summoned forth a new world where they were a better version of themselves.

"We've kind of got to tell a lie. We'll go back into history and there will be black people where, historically, there wouldn't have been, and we won't dwell on that.

"We'll say, 'To hell with it, this is the imaginary, better version of the world. By believing in it, we'll summon it forth'."
-Steven Moffat, executive producer and lead writer of Dr. Who
 

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
I noticed you completely ignored the facts around the UK's infection rate as well
The UK has more infections than other countries like Finland? Why didn't he allow Finnish travel then? That something responds partly to the current crisis doesn't mean there's also not a political motivation behind. China hid the initial effect of the disease for political motivation too. Why is so difficult to see that the US could have also acted politically motivated. But whatever, believe anything you want.
 

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
So both sides are stupid, yet it's still not too difficult to read him (for geniuses like yourself, I'm guessing?)

Enlightening contribution, as usual.
You guys keep assuming the motives China hid the initial spread of the virus. Is China easy to read? Yeah China is also easy to read IMO yet they also keep outmaneuvering many of their opponents. The west could have stopped China decades ago by not allowing their companies to do business with them, they knew how China was. Why didn't they do it? Are all of them stupid? Maybe in some way the whole political and economic system is sort of stupid and works against itself. That doesn't change the fact that Trump is not very mysterious, he's pretty straightforward, doesn't take a genius to understand him.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
21,556
45,358
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
You guys keep assuming the motives China hid the initial spread of the virus.
Quote me directly otherwise don't waste my time with your deflections. I don't care about China's motives, all I care about is that they hid it and actively suppressed people who tried to let the world know about it. I also know that the WHO carried water for China and forestalled travel closures which increased the rate of infection around the world.

Motives aren't interesting to me because I can only judge motives if someone tells me their motives, and even then I have to decide if they are lying or telling the truth. Guessing motives is rarely fruitful, even though it can be fun.

Is China easy to read? Yeah China is also easy to read IMO yet they also keep outmaneuvering many of their opponents. The west could have stopped China decades ago by not allowing their companies to do business with them, they knew how China was. Why didn't they do it? Are all of them stupid? Maybe in some way the whole political and economic system is sort of stupid and works against itself. That doesn't change the fact that Trump is not very mysterious, he's pretty straightforward, doesn't take a genius to understand him.
Nonsensical. We're talking about your claims that an individual -- Trump -- is easy to read and now you leap to a completely incomparable example, an entire government artifice.

You don't tend to back up anything you say, you just flee like a coward with "fine don't believe me anyway", so I don't know why I bother asking you to explain yourself further. True Believers are so precious.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: *Nightwing

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
all I care about is that they hid it
How do you know they hid it and that they did it intentionally? Maybe they honestly thought the disease was controllable. Can you read their minds? I'm just asking cause you're asking the same about how I know Trump acted that way.

Nonsensical. We're talking about your claims that an individual -- Trump -- is easy to read and now you leap to a completely incomparable example, an entire government artifice.

You don't tend to back up anything you say, you just flee like a coward with "fine don't believe me anyway", so I don't know why I bother asking you to explain yourself further. True Believers are so precious.
Now you started with the ad hominems as expected. This is why I don't really care what you think. you're worthless to debate with.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
21,556
45,358
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
How do you know they hid it and that they did it intentionally?
Because we have videos, tweets, and articles dating back to November.

China didn't accidentally tell people things were fine, nor did they accidentally threaten Doctors who spoke up about it.

Speaking of "not too difficult to read", you're incapable of holding a conversation.

Maybe they honestly thought the disease was controllable. Can you read their minds? I'm just asking cause you're asking the same about how I know Trump acted that way.

Now you started with the ad hominems as expected. This is why I don't really care what you think. you're worthless to debate with.
Stomp off in a huff like you usually do, trash. At this point you do more harm than good on this forum, spreading overt lies and preying upon people's common goodwill.
 

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
Because we have videos, tweets, and articles dating back to November.
Yeah and we have 4 years of Trump being quite transparent about the way he is and acts on Twitter and also his actions during the crisis which for me speaks quite clearly about his motivations. Like I said, it doesn't take a genius.

Stomp off in a huff like you usually do, trash. At this point you do more harm than good on this forum, spreading overt lies and preying upon people's common goodwill.
I'm not the one who started with the ad hominems. Why do you insult and then whine about when others don't respond well to your "goodwill" insulting? Shu!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Holgren

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
6,920
10,934
950
Yeah and we have 4 years of Trump being quite transparent about the way he is and acts on Twitter and also his actions during the crisis which for me speaks quite clearly about his motivations. Like I said, it doesn't take a genius.


I'm not the one who started with the ad hominems. Why do you insult and then whine about when others don't respond well to your "goodwill" insulting? Shu!

 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
21,556
45,358
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
Yeah and we have 4 years of Trump being quite transparent about the way he is and acts on Twitter and also his actions during the crisis which for me speaks quite clearly about his motivations. Like I said, it doesn't take a genius.

I'm not the one who started with the ad hominems. Why do you insult and then whine about when others don't respond well to your "goodwill" insulting? Shu!
Hey goldfish, forget your own posts? What do you think "Democrats are Stupid" and "Republicans are Stupid too" qualifies as, a compliment?
 

crowbrow

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
3,165
3,573
570
Hey goldfish, forget your own posts? What do you think "Democrats are Stupid" and "Republicans are Stupid too" qualifies as, a compliment?
I wasn't calling you stupid. There's a difference about insulting politicians and getting personal. And frankly you're not capable of having a debate without getting personal which says a lot about your lack of debating skills. If you feel personally insulted because I don't praise Trump then that's your problem to deal with.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
21,556
45,358
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
I wasn't calling you stupid. There's a difference about insulting politicians and getting personal. And frankly you're not capable of having a debate without getting personal which says a lot about your lack of debating skills. If you feel personally insulted because I don't praise Trump then that's your problem to deal with.
This reads more like a diary entry than a reply. Evidently you don't know what an ad hominem is: directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

You posited that Trump wasn't too difficult to read. I asked why his opponents keep failing to read them, challenging the position you are maintaining. Your answer was "Democrats are stupid". This wasn't a sufficient reply which is why I pointed out he has opponents beyond the Democrats and beyond the political parties. Your answer "Well Republicans are stupid".

At no point have you answered my challenge to your original position.

There's your free debate class for the day. Feel free to ignore it and cower behind your weak projections as usual, it's not a surprise anyway.
 

Krappadizzle

Gold Member
Oct 4, 2011
12,859
1,640
1,055
Jesus, reading that and then seeing the state of the world really makes me wonder if people in good conscience still support these insanely liberal outlets that are out of touch with ACTUAL real world events instead of the perfect fantasy land they live in their heads.
 

Caffeine

Gold Member
Jan 17, 2013
6,276
1,932
945
they always gotta take an opposing opinion even if the man breathes. just look at the last 2 weeks every article is condescending with an opposing thought on what just occurred and they never mention the health of the general public.
 
Last edited:

matt404au

Cyberbully
Apr 25, 2009
20,589
38,298
1,480
#FreeBrap
posting again here



I guarantee that Trump knew that the model inputs were based on CCP reported data and disregarded them as a result. I run numerical models for a living, or “academic models” as the media refer to them as (aka prophecies to the New Evangelicals). They are not infallible and are entirely dependent on the inputs that the modeller (aka prophet) selects. I can make a model say whatever I want it to simply by tweaking the inputs. This is dangerous if there are political implications from the modelling results as it hands the reigns over to scientists who are not immune to bias or corruption or plain old human error no matter how desperately we want to believe they are.

My bosses don’t know how my models work and wouldn’t be able to call me out on them even if they suspected something was wrong. That’s why trust is so important. I’ve given them good results and no reason to doubt me, so they trust what I report. China, on the other hand, has given us plenty of reason to doubt their data and hence any models that are derived from them. Donald Trump no trust China, China is asshoe.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
10,662
14,535
1,005
I guarantee that Trump knew that the model inputs were based on CCP reported data and disregarded them as a result. I run numerical models for a living, or “academic models” as the media refer to them as (aka prophecies to the New Evangelicals). They are not infallible and are entirely dependent on the inputs that the modeller (aka prophet) selects. I can make a model say whatever I want it to simply by tweaking the inputs. This is dangerous if there are political implications from the modelling results as it hands the reigns over to scientists who are not immune to bias or corruption or plain old human error no matter how desperately we want to believe they are.

My bosses don’t know how my models work and wouldn’t be able to call me out on them even if they suspected something was wrong. That’s why trust is so important. I’ve given them good results and no reason to doubt me, so they trust what I report. China, on the other hand, has given us plenty of reason to doubt their data and hence any models that are derived from them. Donald Trump no trust China, China is asshoe.
We should also consider that this decision was mad Jan 30th, and 2 weeks later CCP dumped 14K case in one day. So yes CCP numbers were poo. Either we believe them and they weren't testing properly/backlog so the numbers were garbage, or they purposefully hid the cases so the numbers were garbage.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: matt404au

belmarduk

Member
Nov 19, 2019
667
685
495
You might be expecting too much from Vox and Buzzfeed News.
The NYT reporter asked an epidemiologist. I think that's fair.
 

Leshita

Member
Jun 6, 2004
3,037
289
1,545
Vancouver, BC
Behind all the information warfare, we gotta remember the various interest groups behind the scenes.
Corporations, bankers, military, oil dudes, bureaucrats, old 1% dudes, religious groups, etc...

Sometimes the presidents / prime ministers do try to do what is best for their citizens, but they need the will and skill to balance the above interest groups and forces.
I myself like Trump's approach of humour and twitter rallying. ;)
 
Last edited:

RokkanStoned

Member
Jan 14, 2018
2,208
2,551
595
Norway
Honestly, my own trust in the US press is rather low. In Norway the press is quite a bit more responsible, but even here press itself is a collective organism that often signal virtue, while acting the opposite or acting like they're special exceptions. Especially when it comes to money, most press organizations show their true colors. I saw it here the other day, when one of our newspapers tried to justify why they're keeping Corona virus news behind a paywall. This kind of janus face of the press is a reoccurring thing. One of our newspapers got a price for being the most awful in terms of what companies are best at getting teens to feel the worst.
Often newspapers will attempt to play on fear (diseases!), sex (something about penis size, a picture of a half-naked woman, etc) or tragedy/shock (this shocking tragic thing happened!) and try to use those basic drives to get you to pay. Especially the health ones are just terrible and preying on people's anxieties, while providing you often worse information.

That the press often has a specific angle and political agenda, just further exacerbates this duality. Though I reckon most of the opposition is likely because it's Trump (because a lot these newspapers do write about the Uighurs, although surprisingly with a lot less attention). That's why newspapers are just means of getting information and you as a reader need critical thinking skills to not eat things up. Whether CNN or Fox News. Don't just accept something because it's convenient for you. Read multiple sources for a story. Don't put too much importance on opinion pieces. Be critical of which deliberate view a newspaper takes in regards to choice of news to cover or to front, choice of article or opinion piece title in contrast to its content, be aware of adjective usage (which a lot of articles insert), etc.

Now, when it comes to experts, it's also important to know that regarding a lot of things, you'll never see a clear consensus. More so, there's factors that make experts biased in one respect or the other. That's why one also needs to see a bigger picture in terms of views within said field. In a perfect world newspapers would help you orientate yourself in regards to this, and in a lot of countries they do at least somewhat do this, but newspapers have political agency and agendas, so we can't.
That's why it only takes a quick look at the different responses. Norway chose a hard response, locking down the borders, quarantining people and shutting down most businesses (and latest thing is forbidding people from going to their cabin in a different municipality or the newest iteration sleeping over in said cabin). Sweden chose a softer response. Which country's experts are right? Personally I'm still leaning towards thinking the swedish response seems better overall, as I fear the economic effects of the heavy responses, but who knows, it might recoup quickly or things might go really bad in Sweden.

In Norway we're surprisingly agreeing across the political isles, with a few parties from each side skeptical about the new authorizations considered given to the government to temporarily ignore our constitution and international treaties. Very few are trying to play too much of a political game about this, but instead unifying, though also discussing the issue and how it should be judged. Usually it's about the subject and not towards any specific party or person.