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[Septimius]

Yeah, I mean I could see how talking to people internally might not necessarily achieve much and, I can understand their frustration. But going public like that seems pretty extreme.

In this passive aggressive manner, it's completely inappropriate. If they do wish to share with the world that the higher ups are ruining being a game developer, and it's affecting their lives, they should stand up and take it to the media in a proper way. If they wish to stay anonymous, I wish them to be, if they want to stand out and voice their concerns, I'd applaud them. I'm not OK with the current state of affairs in the gaming industry. Big titles take more and more resources, have poor planning, and is always due yesterday. We're not that fresh of a market, and it is NOT OK that multimillion dollar projects keep being delayed, keeps requiring their developers to die for the product, and having crunch-times lasting years.

This shit is NOT OK. The movie industry is equally full of passionate souls and a hard-working work force, and crunch-times are natural for all things like this, but a year of cruch-time is not OK, and it sadly sounds like these have been subject to that.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

So in what kind of company do workers openly question decisions by, and indirectly insult higher-ups? I mean, the guy is probably right, but going on record to publicly say that, sounds pretty fucking unprofessional to me.
Or was it someone else posing as a ubisoft employee?

I've read in an article that he left Ubisoft when the Wii-U version was finished in January.

 

[Messofanego]

I'm a bit confused, how does not buying the game support the developers or am I reading that wrong? Would that send a message to Ubisoft about working conditions or would it just mean "these games don't sell well, scrap 'em"?

We can't support this studio and this publisher because they make so many choices that so negatively impacts their developers' lives. We can't be OK with buying this game in half a year because we'd support the devs that put the hours into it. We can't build up under the horrible tendency game development has of consuming their developers and abusing their passion. Most of us should be disgusted when we learn the dev-team haven't had a break, and been in crunch-time since May. It's not OK.

I won't be supporting this title in the wish to support the developers behind it. The suits of the business need to start taking care of their workers. Carrot, rather than the stick. We should not be OK with this in 2013, in one of the most technologically advancing fields there is.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I hope that honest confession doesn't cost the man his job.


But wow. The wii U really is in trouble. I'm starting to think that the vita actually might be in a better position long term, least in terms of 3rd party support.


The WiiU is on the road to being just a machine for Nintendo games and nothing else of note.

 

[javac]

The WiiU is on the road to being just a machine for Nintendo games and nothing else of note.

Again, business as usual. It will get some cool third party games (like Mad world, no more hero's etc) but yeah Nintendo games being the main catalyst for Nintendo console sales. Shock horror.

 

[JDSN]

Its so weird to see people excusing and rationalizing Ubisoft's reasons for the delay, is one thing to understand it as most people do in this thread, but this "Quit bitching, you fanboy, Ubisoft did what's best" attitude at this obvious anti-consumer move is jarring. Ditto on calling out the dev for snitching.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Again, business as usual. It will get some cool third party games (like Mad world, no more hero's etc) but yeah Nintendo games being the main catalyst for Nintendo console sales. Shock horror.

I suppose only the young 'uns expected anything different. Nintendo consoles sell on Nintendo games and given the third-party shenanigans with the Wii-U i'd say that's going to continue.

I've said before. Third-Parties moan that Nintendo are too strong on Nintendo systems so Nintendo back-off to give them some room and they start moaning that Nintendo aren't pulling their weight. It's craziness to me but par for the course now.

 

[Always-honest]

I've read in an article that he left Ubisoft when the Wii-U version was finished in January.

Ah okay.
What a horrible world to work in. Most creative people i've met just want to make nice pretty fun things.
Pay them a bit and they're perfectly happy. Then these idiots , who proabably haven't played a game in their life, kill ALL the fun and possibly even creativity by exploiting them. Horrible people. Bad people.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Its so weird to see people excusing and rationalizing Ubisoft's reasons for the delay, is one thing to understand it as most people do in this thread, but this "Quit bitching, you fanboy, Ubisoft did what's best" attitude at this obvious anti-consumer move is jarring. Ditto on calling out the dev for snitching.

The men in suits are gaming's new heroes. We must worship them. Anything else is heretical.

 

[metalslimer]

Its so weird to see people excusing and rationalizing Ubisoft's reasons for the delay, is one thing to understand it as most people do in this thread, but this "Quit bitching, you fanboy, Ubisoft did what's best" attitude at this obvious anti-consumer move is jarring. Ditto on calling out the dev for snitching.

It's extremely easy to become anticonsumer when it supports your agenda, and this applies to everyone.

 

[mclem]

With how shitty developers are treated in a lot of these companies, I wonder why there hasn't been some sort of major "Developers Strike" or some shit by some companies. Probably the complete lack of job security in the industry.

You're pretty much correct. I considered it during a period I was feeling significantly exploited (I need to highlight 'feeling' there, it may not have been that bad, but I wasn't necessarily in the most unbiased frame of mind!), but I was gently reminded that there's an awful lot of fresh-faced college graduates just queueing up outside the door willing and able to be exploited so they can work in the industry they love.

Excellent post. It's disgusting how game companies exploit their workforce.

And just to turn this on its head, since I've seen the other side: From management's standpoint, that sort of practice is essential to keep costs down. Given how inflated budgets are already...

 

[Malvingt2]

Source

thanks, I am going to add it to OP

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Again, business as usual. It will get some cool third party games (like Mad world, no more hero's etc) but yeah Nintendo games being the main catalyst for Nintendo console sales. Shock horror.

One thing and one thing only would make me feel that the WiiU has a chance still with Third parties and that's if Dev costs for the console are significantly lower.

It may make no difference in the west but I'm not sure many Japanese Devs can afford The kind of budgets to Keep up with Durango and Orbis. First wave software on those machines might be ok, but past that I don't they can afford to use the increased power.

It's just for Nintendo to hang on till then.

 

[troushers]

Has anyone official at Ubisoft outlined why Rayman was delayed? It just makes no sense to me, unless they believe the Wii U version will cannabilise other sales, or they want some co-ordinated PR offensive. There is literally no competition for Rayman on the Wii U in February. Why move it?

 

[JDSN]

Has anyone official at Ubisoft outlined why Rayman was delayed? It just makes no sense to me, unless they believe the Wii U version will cannabilise other sales, or they want some co-ordinated PR offensive. There is literally no competition for Rayman on the Wii U in February. Why move it?

"There are no issues with the game development. All of the information was in the press release, the only reason for the delay is to release on multiple platforms," Ubisoft public relations specialist Sarah Irvin said.

 

[KingSnake]

What bothers me is what were the Ubisoft "suits" thinking from the beginning when they decided to make it exclusive?

Initially it was scheduled as a launch game, so no real basis for sales out of the gate. Even considering the Wii numbers, that would have meant 3 million users by the end of second month (and by that time it would have been already an old game) and competing with all the other launch games including Mario.

Then, when it was postponed to February, even considering Wii numbers, would have meant a maximum of 6 million consoles ( or to go by Nintendo's estimation - 5 million delivered, so 4-4,5 million sold) by the end of second month after launch date. Now we probably expect something like 3-3.5 million consoles, BUT it's not likely that this proportion between estimation and reality to be applied also to Rayman, as the game was actually one of the sales argument for the console itself, So I don't really see such a big difference in the estimation for the sales of Rayman on Wii U between E3 2012, November 2012 (when it was postponed) and now. Considering even a constant 5% attach rate in both situation we talk about 230k compared to 150k as a maximum. And again my assumption is that in fact due to all the promotion that Rayman got from Nintendo (demo units, demo in eshop, E3, ND) the number of potential buyers of Rayman is quite the same in both scenarios.

Edit: If we add also the fact that there are practically no games to compete with Rayman until end of March (as Mario is practically already bought by the ones who wanted it, I think you can add to the potential buyers also some people that are not necessarily fans of the franchise.

 

[Always-honest]

What bothers me is what were the Ubisoft "suits" thinking from the beginning when they decided to make it exclusive?

Initially it was scheduled as a launch game, so no real basis for sales out of the gate. Even considering the Wii numbers, that would have meant 3 million users by the end of second month (and by that time it would have been already an old game) and competing with all the other launch games including Mario.

Then, when it was postponed to February, even considering Wii numbers, would have meant a maximum of 6 million consoles ( or to go by Nintendo's estimation - 5 million delivered, so 4-4,5 million sold) by the end of second month after launch date. Now we probably expect something like 3-3.5 million consoles, BUT it's not likely that this proportion between estimation and reality to be applied also to Rayman, as the game was actually one of the sales argument for the console itself, So I don't really see such a big difference in the estimation for the sales of Rayman on Wii U between E3 2012, november 2012 (when it was postponed) and now. Considering even a constant 5% attach rate in both situation we talk about 230k compared to 150k as a maximum. And again I think that in fact due to all the promotion that Rayman got from Nintendo (demo units, demo in eshop, E3, ND) my assumption that the number of potential buyers of Rayman is quite the same in both scenarios.

Edit: If we add also the fact that there are practically no games to compete with Rayman until end of March (as Mario is practically already bought by the ones who wanted it, I think you can add to the potential buyers also some people that are not necessarily fans of the franchise.

The succes of the Wii might have played a part. Especially for these suits.

 

[Malvingt2]

I just checked Ubisoft Facebook page, wow they are getting bomb everywhere. lol

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

I just checked Ubisoft Facebook page, wow they are getting bomb everywhere. lol

It's not entirely unexpected surely. I imagine any publisher would face the wrath of their fans if they did this to another property. A 360 game delayed 7 months so that PS3 and Wii-U owners could play would get just as much negativity i'm sure. I think any fan would react badly especially with the way this was announced.

 

[KingSnake]

The succes of the Wii might have played a part. Especially for these suits.

Yes, but again, even considering Wii numbers and the fact that it was supposed to be a launch game, the scenario is not much better (still a maximum of 3 milllion consoles by the end of second month as a basis).

 

[gamergirly]

I suppose only the young 'uns expected anything different. Nintendo consoles sell on Nintendo games and given the third-party shenanigans with the Wii-U i'd say that's going to continue.

I've said before. Third-Parties moan that Nintendo are too strong on Nintendo systems so Nintendo back-off to give them some room and they start moaning that Nintendo aren't pulling their weight. It's craziness to me but par for the course now.

I really, really hope they don't do that again lol

 

[darkstar0155]

You're pretty much correct. I considered it during a period I was feeling significantly exploited (I need to highlight 'feeling' there, it may not have been that bad, but I wasn't necessarily in the most unbiased frame of mind!), but I was gently reminded that there's an awful lot of fresh-faced college graduates just queueing up outside the door willing and able to be exploited so they can work in the industry they love.



And just to turn this on its head, since I've seen the other side: From management's standpoint, that sort of practice is essential to keep costs down. Given how inflated budgets are already...

It really is sad how workers are treated. About ten years ago i started at DigiPen and started hearing all of these stories about crunch time, and over worked employees. It pretty much had me changing my career paths as i didnt want to have that kind of a work life.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I just checked Ubisoft Facebook page, wow they are getting bomb everywhere. lol

I guess they were expecting that.

What strikes me is they haven't updated their official site (just a small post in the lower part). the shops were obviously not told. That's a damn amateurish rush.

 

[tajd]

facebook comments are full if win

whats next zombi360

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

I guess they were expecting that.

What strikes me is they haven't updated their official site (just a small post in the lower part). the shops were obviously not told. That's a damn amateurish rush.

I can't grok it either. I mean is it the industry way to rush out badly worded announcements and then run into a bunker for a few weeks to hide from the backlash?

I don't understand how they could subject themselves to this? Surely someone has to have been working on the PR for this for a while or did they just decide to tell us at the last minute and threw something together on a post-it note?

That's what it seems like. Such terrible PR and communication in the industry recently. It's astounding how they treat their existing fans.

 

[redmetal86]

Miiverse reaction over the news.

the Dan Vs. Ubisoft drawing was funny

 

[Caddywompus]

I don't see why you wouldn't release a $60 game that's 3 weeks away and use those 7 months to alter the content of the tablet levels to create a Rayman Legends GOTY (or whatever you want to call it) for the PS360 version. When those two release in the fall then release the content you've added to what would have been an inferior version on the PS360 without it as DLC for the WiiU version to drum up sales again. You could even release the HDtwins at a $40 discount then drop the price of the WiiU version upon release. At lease then it would have a shot at competing with the big guns in the fall.

I just hope the higher ups aren't using the 3DS version of Rayman Origns as some excuse to release the games all at once. Claiming that inferior version didn't sell well because it was delayed multiple times which separated it from the console versions would be asinine.

 

[BGBW]

"There are no issues with the game development. All of the information was in the press release, the only reason for the delay is to release on multiple platforms," Ubisoft public relations specialist Sarah Irvin said.

That's terrible PR. Not even a bit of positive spin like deciding to use the extra time for extra content.

 

[blu]

I can't grok it either. I mean is it the industry way to rush out badly worded announcements and then run into a bunker for a few weeks to hide from the backlash?

I don't understand how they could subject themselves to this? Surely someone has to have been working on the PR for this for a while or did they just decide to tell us at the last minute and threw something together on a post-it note?

That's what it seems like. Such terrible PR and communication in the industry recently. It's astounding how they treat their existing fans.

This industry is sustained on the talent of the developers who work their lives off, not on the suits who make clusterfucks as the one subject to this thread.

Corporate culture breeds incompetence. It's everywhere, it's just that we gamers are somewhat more vocal about it.

That's why if you want to spend your money on the good of the industry, spend that on talented indies. Which means DD stores are the way ahead.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

That's terrible PR. Not even a bit of positive spin like deciding to use the extra time for extra content.

That dev is definitely getting his knuckles rapped right now. Props to him for standing up to his superiors though.

 

[mclem]

I just checked Ubisoft Facebook page, wow they are getting bomb everywhere. lol

I wonder if anyone's being creative in Zombi U

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

the Dan Vs. Ubisoft drawing was funny

Also, "I just got a new dog!" post. Nice to have a little interlude in there...

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I remember when I was a 12 year old boy sitting in front of my C64 back in the 80ies, my big Idols were those guys and very small teams coding and creating games like Wizball, Antiriad or Way of the Exploding Fist back in the day.

Boy, have times changed.


I'd hate to be that small part of the machine that gets hammered on until it starts to break down.

 

[jerd]

I'm not really sure why/how this thread turned into "Let's be pissed about Legends going multiplat", because I believe that thread is down the hall. Isn't this thread more about the mistreatment of/dishonesty to the devs?

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

In all honesty, this went from a Day 1, $60 purchase (because of how much I loved Origins and wanted to support the dev) to a Day 31, $20 purchase. That is how much I payed for Origins a month after it came out, because I wasn't willing to make a huge investment in something I wasn't sure I would love.

They are releasing on multiple platforms now, so they likely won't hurt by getting a third of my money. I don't feel some silly need to pay the developer's lighting bill anymore. By September, I will be playing a ton of $20 March-May Releases so I'll be busy anyways.

Multiplatform doesn't bug me, but the February timing of the game was going to be perfect for me and I was ready to dive in. They are probably worried the splash will be gone if they release on Wii U in Feb, the journalists will talk it to death because they have access to new systems, and then it will get a short mention when it goes multiplatform in September.

 

[darkstar0155]

In all honesty, this went from a Day 1, $60 purchase (because of how much I loved Origins and wanted to support the dev) to a Day 31, $20 purchase. That is how much I payed for Origins a month after it came out, because I wasn't willing to make a huge investment in something I wasn't sure I would love.

They are releasing on multiple platforms now, so they likely won't hurt by getting a third of my money. I don't feel some silly need to pay the developer's lighting bill anymore. By September, I will be playing a ton of $20 March-May Releases so I'll be busy anyways.

Multiplatform doesn't bug me, but the February timing of the game was going to be perfect for me and I was ready to dive in. They are probably worried the splash will be gone if they release on Wii U in Feb, the journalists will talk it to death because they have access to new systems, and then it will get a short mention when it goes multiplatform in September.

Problem is, "journalist" (if you want to call it that) wont be talking about it in september either, as next gen hype will be in full swing, and GTAV comes out within 15 days of its release. Its going to get completely overshadowed.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

People can be mad all they want scream that it's suicide to release in September but if it's coming to more platforms (especially ones with huge userbases) then some of the reaction here is way overboard. The nature of a system losing an exclusive is why this thread is 2000 posts and still going. FF13 had this kind of reaction. Let's deal with it and play a hopefully awesome game come September. Origin was panned a little for releasing at full price and this one looks no different in terms of the reception.

I do find it interesting to see how some aren't anticipating it as much just because it's now multiplatform. For all we know, this was meant to always be on more than 1 platform but Ubi kept quiet about it. The additional workload to have parity on all platforms is what likely cause the delay so I see nothing changing. If you anticipated this game, get it. If not then don't.

 

[CronoShot]

I just checked Ubisoft Facebook page, wow they are getting bomb everywhere. lol

lol

 

[Malvingt2]

lol

lolol

 

[darkstar0155]

People can be mad all they want scream that it's suicide to release in September but if it's coming to more platforms (especially ones with huge userbases) then some of the reaction here is way overboard. The nature of a system losing an exclusive is why this thread is 2000 posts and still going. FF13 had this kind of reaction. Let's deal with it and play a hopefully awesome game come September. Origin was panned a little for releasing at full price and this one looks no different in terms of the reception.

I do find it interesting to see how some aren't anticipating it as much just because it's now multiplatform. For all we know, this was meant to always be on more than 1 platform but Ubi kept quiet about it. The additional workload to have parity on all platforms is what likely cause the delay so I see nothing changing. If you anticipated this game, get it. If not then don't.

No way this was initially meant to be multiplatform (dont care if it is personally, and not suprised at the same time). And dont forget the first one bombed on three platforms. Releasing it for the Wii U now when people are starved for games and it doesnt have any competitoin, then releasing the port in september, would have garnered more sales then releasing all versions in september. The starved wii u audience would have made up for any potential lost sales of people not buying it in september due to it being a late port. All my opinion of course.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I do find it interesting to see how some aren't anticipating it as much just because it's now multiplatform. For all we know, this was meant to always be on more than 1 platform but Ubi kept quiet about it. The additional workload to have parity on all platforms is what likely cause the delay so I see nothing changing. If you anticipated this game, get it. If not then don't.

No, you don't get it 99% of the complaints and what this thread is based on is not becoming multiplat. The complaints are because of a 7 month delay to a game that's already completed.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

My guess is the delay is to retool the game into a pure button platformer. We'll probably end up with a bit more content, and if we're lucky the U version will keep the Murphy levels as a bonus or dlc or something.

I wonder if Nintendo's still publishing in Japan?

 

[MrWisker]

Just a thought....

I wonder....any concerns of potentially removing from the Wii-U version of the game those aspects that required the tablet controller complete the level. Releasing the game on the Xbox and PS3 would require a reworking of those levels as well. Would the delay in the WiiU version be a sign of reworking the game to be consistent across all platforms?

Probably not, but perhaps a reason for the WiiU delay........

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No, you don't get it 99% of the complaints and what this thread is based on is not becoming multiplat. The complaints are because of a 7 month delay to a game that's already completed.

This thread being 2000 pages and going is why I know that isn't entirely true. No one is going to openly admit it but the internet has worked this way for years. There are other venues where you can openly be less behaved and simply troll. Systemwars is exactly why I don't get into conversations with those who are less rational.

I'm still happy more people will get to play it.

 

[mugurumakensei]

This thread being 2000 pages and going is why I know that isn't entirely true. No one is going to openly admit it but the internet has worked this way for years. There are other venues where you can openly be less behaved and simply troll. Systemwars is exactly why I don't get into conversations with those who are less rational.

I'm still happy more people will get to play it.

2000 Pages? There's only 11 and there's only slightly more than 1000 posts.

 

[Malvingt2]

This thread being 2000 pages and going is why I know that isn't entirely true. No one is going to openly admit it but the internet has worked this way for years. There are other venues where you can openly be less behaved and simply troll. Systemwars is exactly why I don't get into conversations with those who are less rational.

I'm still happy more people will get to play it.

are you assuming such?

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I don't need to read threads; I know what's going on because of the length.

 

[darkstar0155]

This thread being 2000 pages and going is why I know that isn't entirely true. No one is going to openly admit it but the internet has worked this way for years. There are other venues where you can openly be less behaved and simply troll. Systemwars is exactly why I don't get into conversations with those who are less rational.

I'm still happy more people will get to play it.

maybe im reading a different thread, but most people seem to be upset about an un-needed delay.

 

[Jackano]

Wow at the Miiverse video. They better re-shedule for april for now, it's not like they were gonna spend much in marketing. It's not about better sales anymore, as for the Wii U version, it's what they can do to damage control. Re-sheduling as fast as they can to show they listen to their fans, and even their own teams.

 

[Malvingt2]

People are really mad about this. It is not stopping.. A lot of Spanish, French and Germany messages too.