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[Boulayman]

Yeah, Final Fantasy and GTA were huge. Those are very high profile titles, much more so than Rayman. Most of the flip outs there were about them going multi-plat, not about any perceived delays. But, they were quite different cases than this.

But what about when Turok was delayed for 4 months so they could bring the PS3 version up to parity? Did anyone really care then? Or when Sony sat on Killzone 2 for several months after development was complete? I don't recall much in the way of outrage.

Nope, you are right. I am guessing it was because well people had more things to play back then perhaps ( I don't particularly remember the Turok case to be frank). As for kz2, I think most of us were thinking that GG was gonna use the extra time to polish the game. It actually felt like at the time GG was the one asking for more time as opposed to Sony sitting on it. The Rayman situation is quite special as it is quite rare to see a dev speaking up saying that he's quite frustrated by the delay and that the game is done.

I for one wouldn't have given the whole situation a second thought, were it not for the dev comments. As I believe you and others have said, we all knew that eventually the game would come out on the ps360. It's how the whole thing panned out, so very last minute, the current highway to sales for Rayman that exist on the WII U due to lack of competition for the next few months and the dev saying the game is finished that leaves us scratching our head.

 

[Poimandres]

Nope, you are right. I am guessing it was because well people had more things to play back then perhaps ( I don't particularly remember the Turok case to be frank). As for kz2, I think most of us were thinking that GG was gonna use the extra time to polish the game. It actually felt like at the time GG was the one asking for more time as opposed to Sony sitting on it. The Rayman situation is quite special as it is quite rare to see a dev speaking up saying that he's quite frustrated by the delay and that the game is done.

I for one wouldn't have given the whole situation a second thought, were it not for the dev comments. As I believe you and others have said, we all knew that eventually the game would come out on the ps360. It's how the whole thing panned out, so very last minute, the current highway to sales for Rayman that exist on the WII U due to lack of competition for the next few months and the dev saying the game is finished that leaves us scratching our head.

I'm pretty sure that Killzone was done 100%, and review code was sent out in late 2008 before it launched in Feb 2009. Hell, they didn't even try and hide it with Sony being forthcoming about the delay being so it didn't canibalize Resistance 2.

I do feel bad for the developers here, getting shafted like this after they've worked their asses off. But I don't see how boycotting the game, as some are suggesting, is going to help them at all! It's just a shitty situation.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I do feel bad for the developers here, getting shafted like this after they've worked their asses off. But I don't see how boycotting the game, as some are suggesting, is going to help them at all! It's just a shitty situation.

Not to mention that's the exact opposite the developers want you to do if you feel like protesting the situation, going off the quote in the OP.

Hope there's another Collector's Edition like there was for PAL regions for Origins, I'd gladly get it to support Ancel again.

 

[Pyronite]

How will this turn out different than Rayman Origins for Ubisoft?

Plenty of sequels sell far better than their original titles for various reasons.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Plenty of sequels sell far better than their original titles for various reasons.

Ermmmmmm....

 

[Boulayman]

I'm pretty sure that Killzone was done 100%, and review code was sent out in late 2008 before it launched in Feb 2009. Hell, they didn't even try and hide it with Sony being forthcoming about the delay being so it didn't canibalize Resistance 2.

I do feel bad for the developers here, getting shafted like this after they've worked their asses off. But I don't see how boycotting the game, as some are suggesting, is going to help them at all! It's just a shitty situation.

Yup, I just searched it quickly and you were right

Just wanted to add a quick reply on the \”delay\” of Killzone 2 to Feb 2009. To be clear, there is nothing wrong or causing a delay to the development of the title. We (SECA) had to look at the fall calendar with SOCOM, LittleBigPlanet, MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, Resistance 2, plus some PSN titles and make a decision where each game should come out. Killzone 2 was moved to Feb 2009 to make sure we didn\’t have three shooters in the marketplace competing for retail dollars during the same holiday season. The game will be great and it will be out in Feb 2009 in both Europe and North America.

Hope this helps – alot of times we gamers read delay and think something is wrong, in this case, it was a pure management decision.

ron

But yah, I guess back then I didn't notice because well as he said pretty well the window was quite busy, and that was just first party, let alone the third party games.

And as for your other point, yah boycotting is dumb.

 

[Calamari41]

I'm pretty sure that if Rayman were delayed for two months because 4 AAA titles were hitting in February for Wii U, there wouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[Gummb]

I'm pretty sure that if Rayman were delayed for two months because 4 AAA titles were hitting in February for Wii U, there wouldn't be too much of an issue.

yes, the situation is entirely different. I'm unsure why it's being compared directly.

The only common thread is the notion of delaying a finished game. However, one was delayed 2 months because it was redundant and the other 7 months in order to develop ports.

 

[Pitmonkey]

Has Nintendo responded to this at all?

 

[TheBear]

I could give a fuck about it going multiplat, but delaying a game for no good reason sucks, especially when it's finished.

 

[Gummb]

Has Nintendo responded to this at all?

I severely doubt they ever will until it's finished. Speaking now would allow us to openly talk about their involvement. If they remain silent, we have nothing specific to talk about. In fact, it's Ubisoft's lack of silence that has me most encouraged at the moment. If we can keep them talking, something will happen until they close the gate.

 

[Poimandres]

yes, the situation is entirely different. I'm unsure why it's being compared directly.

The only common thread is the notion of delaying a finished game. However, one was delayed 2 months because it was redundant and the other 7 months in order to develop ports.

Seems like the Killzone delay was more than 2 months, but in any case you are right that the situation is different. Turok is a better comparison, with a frustrated developer sitting on a finished product for 4 months because of a multi-platform release: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/10/turok-devs-blame-delay-on-ps3-version/

But the point I was getting at is that a rather large element of the uproar is related to this being a delayed Wii U game in a time of drought, and not purely people sticking up for the developers rights. I don't think the Wii U nature of the game is the defining issue, but it's definitely contributing to the intensity of some peoples reactions.

 

[Gummb]

Seems like the Killzone delay was more than 2 months, but in any case you are right that the situation is different. Turok is a better comparison, with a frustrated developer sitting on a finished product for 4 months because of a multi-platform release: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/10/turok-devs-blame-delay-on-ps3-version/

But the point I was getting at is that a rather large element of the uproar is related to this being a delayed Wii U game in a time of drought, and not purely people sticking up for the developers rights. I don't think the Wii U nature of the game is the defining issue, but it's definitely contributing to the intensity of some peoples reactions.

I think it's probably different for every person. I wish I could say there was a defining issue, but it's probably an accumulation of several effects, as you suggest. Also, the reactions are different for each individual. Some are annoyed, some angry, some openly protesting, and some openly boycotting. I just wrote an article on the matter and I hope it's released so I can share. This is more complex than any single 'defining' issue, though.

 

[Poimandres]

I think it's probably different for every person. I wish I could say there was a defining issue, but it's probably an accumulation of several effects, as you suggest. Also, the reactions are different for each individual. Some are annoyed, some angry, some openly protesting, and some openly boycotting. I just wrote an article on the matter and I hope it's released so I can share. This is more complex than any single 'defining' issue, though.

For sure, I think we can all agree on that. There are a lot of factors at play here.

All of the attention this situation is getting is a good thing, and has already resulted in the demo. Hopefully it will result in something more than that!

 

[Rush2thestart]

yes, the situation is entirely different. I'm unsure why it's being compared directly.

The only common thread is the notion of delaying a finished game. However, one was delayed 2 months because it was redundant and the other 7 months in order to develop ports.

I dont think theyre delaying it to develop ports. I think they've been working on the ports the whole time. The initial leak of the game said it was coming for PS3/360/Wii U

 

[Gummb]

I dont think theyre delaying it to develop ports. I think they've been working on the ports the whole time. The initial leak of the game said it was coming for PS3/360/Wii U

"There are no issues with the game development. All of the information was in the press release, the only reason for the delay is to release on multiple platforms," Ubisoft public relations specialist Sarah Irvin said.

Read more: http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/ne...rayman-legends-wii-u-delay.html#ixzz2KZP2Rv7t

Also, the original leak said "Wii U exclusive content." It was never said to be coming to all platforms. It was only ever said to be exclusive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKGXtm02zBE

 

[Zoramon089]

Thinking about it, Ubisoft basically put what was free advertising on Nintendo's part to waste considering all the demo units seemed to be running Rayman...it probably had the most visibility of any 3rd party WiiU game

 

[Gummb]

Thinking about it, Ubisoft basically put what was free advertising on Nintendo's part to waste considering all the demo units seemed to be running Rayman...it probably had the most visibility of any 3rd party WiiU game

By far. Best Buy demos, Gamestop demos, first demo on eshop, Exclusive Michel Ancel interview on Nintendo Direct, etc. etc.

[edit] E3 showcase by Ubisoft

 

[djyella]

I know for myself, I'm not upset about it going multiplat at all. I am upset that the finished game got delayed 7 months. For the life of me I can't understand that. That was a guaranteed sale this month for me. I had already promised my daughter. What else is releasing this month for the WiiU? Now though it's probably not happening. I'm pretty sure I'll get Need for Speed, LEGO, Aliens and then save my money for the Q4 blowout. Pikmin, Wind Waker HD, Wonderful 101 are also def gonna get bought. Rayman doesn't stand a chance anymore. I do feel like they are sending it out to die in September.

 

[Nerazar]

But why would they kill off their own game? I know that they did it with Origins, but still...

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I know for myself, I'm not upset about it going multiplat at all. I am upset that the finished game got delayed 7 months. For the life of me I can't understand that. That was a guaranteed sale this month for me. I had already promised my daughter. What else is releasing this month for the WiiU? Now though it's probably not happening. I'm pretty sure I'll get Need for Speed, LEGO, Aliens and then save my money for the Q4 blowout. Pikmin, Wind Waker HD, Wonderful 101 are also def gonna get bought. Rayman doesn't stand a chance anymore. I do feel like they are sending it out to die in September.

Wii U will presumably have a significantly larger userbase in September them now. That's all the explanation you need for why they'd delay it. Games sell most their copies early in their life cycle and even with increased competition they presumably think there's more potential customers in September than February.

 

[Yoshi]

Wii U will presumably have a significantly larger userbase in September them now. That's all the explanation you need for why they'd delay it. Games sell most their copies early in their life cycle and even with increased competition they presumably think there's more potential customers in September than February.

People buying the Wii U in from February until September will most likely not buy it for a 2D platformer. Wii U players now have bought it most likely for a 2D platformer - one, most of them should be finished with by now. So now, there are about 2 million players who obviously like 2D platformers, waiting for something new to play on the shiny new console. In September, those 2 millions will still be there, but a lot of them might be more interested in different games coming to Wii U then. The added userbase didn't rush to get NSMBU, but were convinced by other titles such als Lego City or Monster Hunter. Even if they buy a 2D platformer in September, chances are, it's Mario and not Rayman. On the other hand, seeing that there are next to no real platformers on PS360 (Rayman Origins, and three Sonic games...) after 7 years on the market, the probability is high that in the set of PS360 users minus Wii U users there are not a lot of huge platformer fans. So I think the presumption that the dely was clever because of an added userbase, is unfounded imo.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

People buying the Wii U in from February until September will most likely not buy it for a 2D platformer. Wii U players now have bought it most likely for a 2D platformer - one, most of them should be finished with by now. So now, there are about 2 million players who obviously like 2D platformers, waiting for something new to play on the shiny new console. In September, those 2 millions will still be there, but a lot of them might be more interested in different games coming to Wii U then. The added userbase didn't rush to get NSMBU, but were convinced by other titles such als Lego City or Monster Hunter. Even if they buy a 2D platformer in September, chances are, it's Mario and not Rayman. On the other hand, seeing that there are next to no real platformers on PS360 (Rayman Origins, and three Sonic games...) after 7 years on the market, the probability is high that in the set of PS360 users minus Wii U users there are not a lot of huge platformer fans. So I think the presumption that the dely was clever because of an added userbase, is unfounded imo.

It's kind of a stretch to say people who buy a Wii U now aren't interested in 2D platfomers because if they were they would have bought a system to play Mario. I love 2D platfomers but I'm not even tempted by Wii U until it gets a price cut. And when it does, I'll probably get one along with Mario and Rayman.

You can try and apply a certain logic to it, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong, i just disagree. I just don't think you can say a larger install base can work against a title's chances of success. I also don't think the people here saying they would have bought it in February but won't in September are all that reliable.

 

[Yoshi]

The thing is, I don't want to say it's "noone" who's going to like platformers and buy a Wii U between now an September, but it's unlikely that the console will drop a lot in price between now and September, also there are no extremely huge games coming in that span of time, but some minor titles that could sweep in some people who were waiting for these, but were not extremely interested in Mario (else they probably would have bought the Wii U by now, because the other titles interesting to them were to come out before the console dropped considerably in price). I'm quite confident that you will not buy a Wii U between now and September for instance .

A lot of those people will still get Mario, but I think it's less likely they will buy a second platformer in September when there will most likely be a lot of new titles coming which might fit their preferred game types better. Big platformer fans who do have the money to buy a Wii U (and think it's worth the money) probaby have bought a Wii U already for Mario (which is the best NSMB yet, by a nice margin), the ones coming between now and September are mostly mildly (or not) interested in platformers I think.

 

[E-phonk]

They should've released it eshop exclusive only, and retail multiplatform in september.

It would sell well on eshop to the hardcore and early adopters, who are waiting for this and want more games, while still retaining fullprice retail value by september.

Pretty strange they didn't do this. They could've had their cake and eaten it too, without offending (their small) rayman fanbase who bought a WiiU for this.

 

[Yoshi]

I would still have been offended, I only want retail releases. Also I don't see the logic behind this. If Ubisoft is worried a release in September might be seen as an "old" game and thus lower sales, does it really matter if it's an old game that was released to retail or just to the eShop? I can't see what the logic behind only releasing on the eShop would be.

 

[mclem]

Nintendo didn't do this to keep it away from Sony and Microsoft. They did it to save the game. Without them it was dead and gone. Hardly what I'd refer to as a moneyhat.

Ah, there's the difference; you're arguing motive, whereas I'm arguing purely in terms of the transaction.

 

[mclem]

Poor Rayman, he is the real victim here.

He needs the money. Budgeting for this cost him an arm and a leg.

 

[AniHawk]

He needs the money. Budgeting for this cost him an arm and a leg.

i think i hate you.

 

[Haunted]

He needs the money. Budgeting for this cost him an arm and a leg.

He's really going out on a limb to joint up with Microsoft and Sony.

 

[plufim]

Thinking about it, Ubisoft basically put what was free advertising on Nintendo's part to waste considering all the demo units seemed to be running Rayman...it probably had the most visibility of any 3rd party WiiU game

Indeed, the demo units will be long, long gone by the time the game actually comes out, replaced with Mario Kart or whatever.

 

[nephilimdj]

Thinking about it, Ubisoft basically put what was free advertising on Nintendo's part to waste considering all the demo units seemed to be running Rayman...it probably had the most visibility of any 3rd party WiiU game

But the rayman demo is at the end of the games list, after like 10 videos on the demo units...
hardly advertising... sure 99.9% play mario demo

How is that visible? I didn't even know it had black betty stage til about 10 trys at my local wiiu unit.

 

[TrutaS]

"esto viene de muy muy arriba" Sounds really cool. Should be Ubisoft's

Spoiler

(EA's)

new motto.

 

[Lizardus]

But the rayman demo is at the end of the games list, after like 10 videos on the demo units...
hardly advertising... sure 99.9% play mario demo

How is that visible? I didn't even know it had black betty stage til about 10 trys at my local wiiu unit.

What I got out of this post is that your average consumer is a braindead retard with the attention span of a fly.

If you are interested in a system and checking it out, why not look at everything? Did you get distracted by something else after scrolling through the first five things?

 

[frankie_baby]

But the rayman demo is at the end of the games list, after like 10 videos on the demo units...
hardly advertising... sure 99.9% play mario demo

How is that visible? I didn't even know it had black betty stage til about 10 trys at my local wiiu unit.

Every single one I've ever seen is running rayman

 

[SmokeMaxX]

But the rayman demo is at the end of the games list, after like 10 videos on the demo units...
hardly advertising... sure 99.9% play mario demo

How is that visible? I didn't even know it had black betty stage til about 10 trys at my local wiiu unit.

...Mario demo?
What are you talking about? Rayman is the ONLY demo for most of the demo stations.

 

[jet1911]

But the rayman demo is at the end of the games list, after like 10 videos on the demo units...
hardly advertising... sure 99.9% play mario demo

How is that visible? I didn't even know it had black betty stage til about 10 trys at my local wiiu unit.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure there's no Mario demo.

 

[axisofweevils]

Has Nintendo responded to this at all?

They might mention it in the upcoming Nintendo third party Direct - a lot of people are expecting one by the end of this month.

 

[Poimandres]

...Mario demo?
What are you talking about? Rayman is the ONLY demo for most of the demo stations.

Maybe it varies worldwide? I know that a NSMBU demo seems to be the main demo in Australia, but Rayman is there as well.

 

[chertipros]

They might mention it in the upcoming Nintendo third party Direct - a lot of people are expecting one by the end of this month.

Why? Nintendo directs are once every two months. The earliest we will get another one would be in March and that would be more centered around the 3DS methinks

 

[Lizardus]

Why? Nintendo directs are once every two months. The earliest we will get another one would be in March and that would be more centered around the 3DS methinks

I think all the rumours stem from this video

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/5a5inj/annoyed-gamer-scary-business

skip to around 5:40 mark, he mention a 3rd party ND in passing.

 

[Drencrom]

Andrew Eisen reacts to Ubisofts Rayman-delay

So he's angry at Ubi for not treating Wii U owners equally when it comes to ports?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

He needs the money. Budgeting for this cost him an arm and a leg.

Don't get me wrong I understand the move to other platforms, however, I think they could have earned better respect and potentially sales by releasing on the Wii U this month as planned and then announce other platforms a little later and still meet the launch for PS3 and 360 they have planned now. Most people thought that is what would occur anyway. Now they have a bit of a mess on their hands and ruined a lot of good will with people.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The Wii U version may be done now, but if they're transitioning Legends to a multiplatform title, they'll have to develop new content to make up for the Murphy levels on PS360, and those extra levels will likely be added to the U version. I'm guessing this is the reason for the Wii U delay, the version that would release this month won't be the same as the version that'll release in September.

That's pretty much the only viable reason I can see for not going with a U release now and PS360 later, particularly with the wide open window they'd have in Feb. It would assurredly sell more overall that way, so the delay must mean there's going to be more work done on the Wii U release.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

The Wii U version may be done now, but if they're transitioning Legends to a multiplatform title, they'll have to develop new content to make up for the Murphy levels on PS360, and those extra levels will likely be added to the U version. I'm guessing this is the reason for the Wii U delay, the version that would release this month won't be the same as the version that'll release in September.

That's pretty much the only viable reason I can see for not going with a U release now and PS360 later, particularly with the wide open window they'd have in Feb. It would assurredly sell more overall that way, so the delay must mean there's going to be more work done on the Wii U release.

It COULD happen, but let's not pretend that it's likely to happen.

EDIT: Actually the reasoning is ridiculous now that I think about it. WiiU has exclusive levels. Make PS360 levels to make up for that. Give those levels to WiiU. WiiU still has exclusive levels...

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It COULD happen, but let's not pretend that it's likely to happen.

EDIT: Actually the reasoning is ridiculous now that I think about it. WiiU has exclusive levels. Make PS360 levels to make up for that. Give those levels to WiiU. WiiU still has exclusive levels...

Well, I'd imagine the Murphy levels would be a Wii U exclusive bonus in this situation. Or maybe they'll try to Better-with-Kinect them, who knows?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Well, I'd imagine the Murphy levels would be a Wii U exclusive bonus in this situation. Or maybe they'll try to Better-with-Kinect them, who knows?

The horror

 

[Htown]

Oh no, that game I wanted is going to make more money now, with no bearing on my ability to purchase it other than when, I'm so upset, fuck them!

it's probably going to make quite a bit less.

 

[H_Prestige]

Nintendo fans have a right to be upset, but Ubisoft also has a right to do what's best for their business. Wii U just isn't a healthy platform for third party games right now. Perhaps by September it will pick up a bit, and if it doesn't they at least have the cushion of ps3/360.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Nintendo fans have a right to be upset, but Ubisoft also has a right to do what's best for their business. Wii U just isn't a healthy platform for third party games right now. Perhaps by September it will pick up a bit, and if it doesn't they at least have the cushion of ps3/360.

maybe it isn't a healthy platform for third party games because third parties refuse to release quality games on the platform. rayman legends was the title to prove that third party games can sell fine on the Wii U. i bet rayman would have sold 600k easily. And get to 1 million by the time the xbox/ps3 versions came out.