The realism in Uncharted 4 has me concerned about the future of videogame violence

sn00zer

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Uncharted 4 looks good, and its the little details that count. Characters sweat, animation now includes underlaying muscles, eyes have subtle realistic twitching, the game can occasionally look photorealistic
please dont get hung up on this assertion
, better yet a lot of this happens during interactive sections.

Luckily the game has 80s hollywood action. Enemies soar through the air, overreact when hit with bullets, and every punch lands in literal cinematic fashion.

The point is, Naughty Dog clearly made a conscious effort to ensure the violence in Uncharted did not match realism of the cutscenes, and with such a realistic graphics/animation looking to PG-13 Hollywood for violence direction seemed like the right way to go. Keep the realism in the character interactions and animations, keep the violence fantastical.

The thing is, Uncharted is T rated series and there are plenty of series old and new that are not. There were scenes in Uncharted and Hitman recently that made me pause because it just felt like it was crossing some sort of line I didnt know I had when it came to realistic violence.

I think it was easier during previous generations to laugh off video game violence because hell, its just 1s and 0s and the games still looked like 1s and 0s, but now they don't. This was more apparent last gen but clearly we've passed some sort of threshold and with the dawn of VR in the near future interactive violence is more realistic than it has ever been before.

No idea how I feel about this yet, but I feel like with each previous gen we were getting closer an closer to a line of realism and we finally crossed it.

So do the traditional arguments about the physiological effects of videogame violence still work when kids are no longer playing PS2 games? Does another jump in realism with the continued factor of interaction blur the lines of separating fantasy from reality even further? Does the fact that VR literally tricking the brain to believe it exists somewhere else mean that violent acts in VR can have a similar enhanced reaction?

Just kind of wanted to get a discussion going to see if people think this gen has changed peoples thoughts in regards to violence in games.
 
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It's been an issue for a long time, but developers usually find an exaggerated, 'cartoonified' way to depict graphic violence even if the game looks much more realistic otherwise.
 

MrBenchmark

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My view is short. No different to me than movies. Movies are super hyper graphic I don't see why games can't be with appropriate rating.
 

The Flash

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Didn't you make a thread very similar to this but with Tomb Raider 2013?

As for myself I like the over the top violence that can be found in games like Mortal Kombat and the new Doom. I don't know why I like it but I do.

The other thing that wigs me out is people getting eaten especially in movies. I blame it on my first few times watching Jurassic Park as a little kid. To this day I have to skip the scene where Wayne Knight dies.
 

Mushroomer25

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I'm genuinely concerned that the game is rated T. It's a brutal game in a lot of spots, and just skips the blood. Drake snaps necks, shoots people in close range, and generally causes the death of a couple hundred people.

Does the lack of blood really mean we're cool with calling this a 'PG-13' experience?

I'm not a parent, but I do wonder if one would be confused why this gets a T - while CoD gets an M. Kind of makes the whole rating system seem arbitrary.
 

xRaizen

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What's wrong with video games having realistic looking violence? I don't see any drawbacks.

If you don't like it don't buy it.
 

the_batman

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Uncharted violence is tame as hell, there's no blood outside of cutscenes, and definitely no gore.

and the realism of violence in older games shouldn't be looked down on, your own imagination fills in the gaps the game may not be able to show.
 

Jito

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Thankfully people can differentiate between a game / movie and reality. That sucks that you can't OP.
 

sjay1994

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Asides from that one Ermac fatality in MKX, nothing really has made me wince from violence in video games despite the increase in realism and graphical fidelity.

And even then, that fatality now doesn't bother me after seeing it a couple of times.
 

Syril

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I'm genuinely concerned that the game is rated T. It's a brutal game in a lot of spots, and just skips the blood. Drake snaps necks, shoots people in close range, and generally causes the death of a couple hundred people.

Does the lack of blood really mean we're cool with calling this a 'PG-13' experience?

I'm not a parent, but I do wonder if one would be confused why this gets a T - while CoD gets an M. Kind of makes the whole rating system seem arbitrary.
Sounds just like movies really.
 

Hoje0308

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In the end, it's just games. Yeah, there will be moments that shock me and some I may even find repulsive, but I'll get over it. Horror games could be better off for it and anyone that's seen a Rob Zombie flick will be well prepared for all manner of graphic violence.
 

Soriku

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I'm genuinely concerned that the game is rated T. It's a brutal game in a lot of spots, and just skips the blood. Drake snaps necks, shoots people in close range, and generally causes the death of a couple hundred people.

Does the lack of blood really mean we're cool with calling this a 'PG-13' experience?

I'm not a parent, but I do wonder if one would be confused why this gets a T - while CoD gets an M. Kind of makes the whole rating system seem arbitrary.
Every Uncharted game is T so this is nothing new. It's probably a hard T, but I disagree the game is brutal. The gore is kept to a minimum. Blood does make a difference.
 

ElephantShell

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The Last of Us was much worse than Uncharted 4 for me when it comes to feeling weird about violence. When you snap someone's neck in Uncharted it's pretty quick, grabbing somebody from behind and choking them out in the Last of Us while they struggled was.... Intense.

I didn't have a huge problem with it but it certainly was heavy.
 
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I think I've crushed over a thousand demon skulls in Doom by now. Like literally exploded them into bloody bits with my fists.

What was your point again OP?
 

Maximo

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Wait until you murder someone in VR
Yeah I don't think Uncharted 4 is in any way shape or form a problem, hell I thought the violence in The Last of us was much more brutal. VR is what is going to interest me, its already being researched in how it could help people with mental health problems anxiety/ect. If VR can have positives I wonder if it can also have negatives on ones health.
 

Raptor

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The more gore and blood and explosions and death and body parts flying and heads exploding all over the better.

And the more realistic as possible please, TLOU is some amazingly violent game and I love it.

The line was crossed a long time ago and its awesome.

But as in that article about stomach BF1 and this OP this will not last long Im afraid.

In a not so distant future instead of blood there would be rainbows coming out of exploding heads without the head disapearing.

No Im not a serial killer nor I like violence in real life.

:D
 

DoublePayje

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Remember, the Last of Us got a multiplayer DLC specific for extremely brutal, gruesome kills. Wait for it, they will release it for Uncharted too. Check it out below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE1YtrIRZuc

Wait until you murder someone in VR
Yes, this is something else. I agree. Turns your stomach when you do it.

This was a PR screenshot of Dishonored 2 that I opened this morning:
Man i found that over the top, but Dishonored was already pretty brutal at its time.
 

shinobi602

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I know this is an issue for some, and I'm not dismissing that OP, but I think for the majority it's mostly a non-issue. I'm completely able to detach myself from the violence I'm participating in digitally and realize I'm just playing a game, regardless of how realistic it looks.

I have a good feeling that most people that play violent video games, no matter how bloody or violent, are normal, level headed people in reality.
 

Soriku

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The Last of Us was much worse than Uncharted 4 for me when it comes to feeling weird about violence. When you snap someone's neck in Uncharted it's pretty quick, grabbing somebody from behind and choking them out in the Last of Us while they struggled was.... Intense.

I didn't have a huge problem with it but it certainly was heavy.
Yeah U4 has nothing on TLOU violence.
 

Boke1879

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Doesn't bother me at all really. There are movies that depict things way more gruesome than I've ever seen in a game. hasn't bothered me because I can detach my mind from it.

If anything parents need to keep a closer eye on what their kids are playing, but I feel we've had this conversation already with games like MK, GTA etc.
 

sjay1994

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I've honestly never thought about the topic or this post till now....

It's...actually kinda rough to think about, isn't it?
Maybe I'm desensitized, but if you've killed someone in a first person game, killing someone in VR isn't a moral pandora.

When I played the demo for London Heist, my first thought was "wow this is neat" followed by "I just played an on rails shooter".
 

the_batman

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i remember when GTAV first got its First Person Mode enabled, it felt wrong robbing people and then killing them.
 

shoreu

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It's not real and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Why shouldn't games be realistically gruesome.
 

Rising_Hei

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Videogames are that, videogames.
The problem is in the mind of the people that play them.
We should let developers do as they please, wathever it is, even if it's really gross and 100 % realistic.
 

jellies_two

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Wait until you murder someone in VR
That's exactly my concern.
There is money to be made in doing visceral murder simulators and worse.
Developers will do it. Sooner or later.

It'll bring down senate hearings and all kinds of stuff that could screw up access to gaming. While it is games on the monitor, and shooting terrorists sort of fits with the desire of the state to have kids operate drones, and amp up fears of terrorism, and the government was happy to pay for America's Army, they're sort of letting it play out with just advisory ratings all the way to beating up cops in GTA and so on.

But crime simulation in VR is a whole other thing.
 

Prevolition

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People keep bringing up movies, but I think there's a difference between passively observing violence and interacting with it (where you the player take part). VR will be the biggest test and it will be interesting to see how the media and politicians respond to even more hyper-realistic interactive violence.
 

HStallion

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Wait until you murder someone in VR
There is a VR game that let's you commit suicide by putting your virtual gun to your head aka the motion controller in your hand, and pulling the "trigger" and kill your in game avatar. Hover Junkers I believe.
 

Exploratory

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Imagine Uncharted 4 graphics in VR...imagine killing someone with that level of realism. That's when I think we might've gone too far. I don't want that.
 

Danis Saur

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Like the first post mentions, they always find a good way to make it cartoonish and less graphic than intended.
 

Oersted

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Gratious, realistic violence is very difficult to create and has rarely the market to justify the effort.

That's exactly my concern.
There is money to be made in doing visceral murder simulators and worse.
Developers will do it. Sooner or later.

It'll bring down senate hearings and all kinds of stuff that could screw up access to gaming. While it is games on the monitor, and shooting terrorists sort of fits with the desire of the state to have kids operate drones, and amp up fears of terrorism, and the government was happy to pay for America's Army, they're sort of letting it play out with just advisory ratings all the way to beating up cops in GTA and so on.

But crime simulation in VR is a whole other thing.
I love how out of all these negative things you mention, its pretty much only the access to games that worries you.
 

Bronetta

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I was at EB Games yesterday and this 10 year old kid was pestering his mom to buy him GTAV. The employee explained the game was rated M and why.

Kid kept saying he has the previous game. The mom looked unfazed. I told her this game is photorealistic and has the player performing torture using a variety of torture devices. It's almost as if the thought process finally kicked in, she thanked me and left.

Kid gave me a dirty look, told him to try Ratchet and Clank instead.

I agree, even the prison fight in Uncharted 4 at the beginning was very visceral.
 

HappyPuppy

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It does put me off when the violence is way over the top with realistic graphics, games like Mortal Kombat 10 or God of War 3 are a bit too much for me and I don't feel comfortable playing them. Just not for me, I also can't handle torture scenes in movies, makes me uneasy, I saw Martyrs T_T.
 

NHarmonic.

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Videogames are that, videogames.
The problem is in the mind of the people that play them.
We should let developers do as they please, wathever it is, even if it's really gross and 100 % realistic.
Let's wait for the VR "human centipede" game we all deserve.
 

Kaako

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Violence done realistically in VR can be a good magnitude times(40x) more intense than violence in regular video games. Suspense/horror VR games in the future will fuck up some people mentally/psychologically for some period of time, guaranteed.

If you thought UC4 was pushing the violence envelope on PS4, just wait till they show you God of War 4! Now that shit is gonna turn some weak stomachs.
 

TheSpoiler

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People keep bringing up movies, but I think there's a difference between passively observing violence and interacting with it (where you the player take part). VR will be the biggest test and it will be interesting to see how the media and politicians respond to even more hyper-realistic interactive violence.
Well, put it this way. As a child, you watched a movie with guns, right? And at some point, did your parents buy you a gun so you can shoot your friend with guns and have a big old gun fight? That influence had to come from somewhere, and before video games, it was the era of TV and movies.

Nerf battles we were so fond of, and the intense laser tag battles that got heated, all that is far more interactive than a game. The reason being? Because you are actively performing the action. It's the least amount of connection between you and the action itself. No control, no prompts, no immersion breakers. It's just you and a fake gun.

I think games, and any sort of media that's violent, can influence people, but only to a small degree. You might cut a person off here or there on the road depending on what type of person you are, but toys and such have been around for ages and will forever be far more of a connector than video games can be.
 

Dylan

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I'd only be concerned if I didn't have other options.

I personally am not really a fan of graphic violence in any of my entertainment so I mostly avoid it. I'll be happy to continue to avoid it in the future, but it's existence doesn't necessarily concern me as long as I have other non-maniacle stuff to play.