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The Sordid History of Suda 51's "Kill The Past" saga

Astarte

Member
Fucking incredible thread! I want to play Silver Case after experiencing FSR, but suda refuses to give us any updates on that 3ds project...
I absolutely adored Moonlight Syndrome and its creepy atmosphere, but it will never finish being translated ;;
Killer7 is also my GOTYAY so I'm a bit biased towards it.
I wish that Suda returned to directing because people constantly associating him with Lollipop Chainsaw is getting annoying. Sure he played a part in it but it's not his game.
 

Clov

Member
Great thread! I've always been a huge fan of the earlier Suda51 works. I'll keep on waiting for that Silver Case fan translation. Keep up the good work!
 

898

Member
I had to say thank you for collecting all of this info/links into one thread. I'm a big fan and have a copy of all these, I just wish I could play/understand more... time to go back to studying.
 
It's not confirmed, but an interesting theory, although the endgame outright states
that Iwazaru is actually Kun Lan.

Whoop, sorry, I meant Kikazaru and his Soul Shell... Searching...
250
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I'd like to make more in-depth sections about the casts and plot beats of Syndrome/TSC/FSR(I figure everyone knows K7, at least comparatively), but I ran out of space in the OP. :/ Maybe I'll edit it into a second reply or something, but for now, I went with summaries.
 

Kyonashi

Member
As much as I like to gripe about the recent 'slap Suda's name on games he didn't direct' trend, Killer Is Dead is easily the best he's done since NMH1. Not saying much, but it was a step in the right direction, and had a couple throwbacks to KTP(namely the full moon).

Still though, I found KiD to simply be okay, whereas his earlier work is PHENOMENAL. And I think NMH2 is better than anything released post-2010.
 

thesaucetastic

Unconfirmed Member
I'd like to make more in-depth sections about the casts and plot beats of Syndrome/TSC/FSR(I figure everyone knows K7, at least comparatively), but I ran out of space in the OP. :/ Maybe I'll edit it into a second reply or something, but for now, I went with summaries.
I'd be interested in that, honestly.
 

El Diabolico

Neo Member
Suda's stuff is always great and I really wish we got more of this stuff in the west.

So, where does one apply to help with the TSC efforts?
 

IrishNinja

Member
this is why i fucks with cj_iwakura. for real, fantastic OP.

this is the yeah i tie up Flower, Sun & Rain and look into Silver Case, because much as i love stuff like No More Heroes, Killer 7 was heads & shoulders above any of the other fun games Suda's name is on, in terms of depth & such. i need more.
 
well shoot, now I'm bummed for all the stuff I never even knew about a few minutes ago that I now fear that I'll never get to experience.

amazing thread, thank you sir.
 
Interesting thread OP, thanks!

Never really enjoyed any Suda games myself but there's no denying the guy has his talents.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Suda's stuff is always great and I really wish we got more of this stuff in the west.

So, where does one apply to help with the TSC efforts?

It's kind of overwhelming to be honest. TSC is a fan translator's worst nightmare. It's part 3d adventure game, visual novel, 2d graphic adventure, FMV game, hacking simulator, etc.. There's so much data displayed in so many different ways that calling it daunting is an understatement.

That said, it's still something I'd love to see happen, but it's on the back burner until we finalize the logistics.
 
I've only played Killer7 on PS2, but I didn't have a GameCube, and even in the short time I owned a Wii, the GameCube version was hard to find. I paid $3.99 for a sealed PS2 copy anyway.

I played it through to Hopper7 too.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I've only played Killer7 on PS2, but I didn't have a GameCube, and even in the short time I owned a Wii, the GameCube version was hard to find. I paid $3.99 for a sealed PS2 copy anyway.

I played it through to Hopper7 too.

Did you try Killer8? That's the pain.
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
Man I really would love to dig in those Suda shenanigans from the past but ain't nobody got time for that.
A magnificent thread OP, will bookmark.
 
Did you try Killer8? That's the pain.

It is difficult at the beginning, but once you get that "lock-on" upgrade, it's a lot easier. I did farm a lot of blood too, until the point where you couldn't convert any more upgrade points.

Also, that mode makes the Heaven Smile considerably more frightening; particularly those giants in the Cloudman chapter and those teleporting "flower heads" later on in the game.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
It is difficult at the beginning, but once you get that "lock-on" upgrade, it's a lot easier. I did farm a lot of blood too, until the point where you couldn't convert any more upgrade points.

Also, that mode makes the Heaven Smile considerably more frightening; particularly those giants in the Cloudman chapter and those teleporting "flower heads" later on in the game.

It was good for a challenge once, but since it basically removes a gameplay element, I doubt I'll do it again.
 
It was good for a challenge once, but since it basically removes a gameplay element, I doubt I'll do it again.
I also enjoyed playing the younger Harman, but he is pretty ineffective for blood. He does have the greatest amount of health, though. He's pretty crucial in the beginning.

I don't think I'd play it again either. Hopper7 is fun to get a bunch of Hopper Heaven Smile together and just watch the framerate drop as they all evaporate.
 

Hedgey

Member

My collection has started. Didn't know this was the last game in the series till I read the romanized spine after purchase. Ohhh well. Guess this means I need to find the other two games now.

Bonus Rockman DASH.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
My collection has started. Didn't know this was the last game in the series till I read the romanized spine after purchase. Ohhh well. Guess this means I need to find the other two games now.

Bonus Rockman DASH.

The final Syndrome game?
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Yeah, sorry I didn't mention the title. It's Twilight Syndrome Saikai, or Reunion.
Paid 2000 yen for it today at a Book Off.

I'm not familiar with that... is it like a special edition/DC of it? Screens would be awesome whenever time allows.


I notice it has Spike's logo instead of Human's, too.
 

Hedgey

Member
I'm not familiar with that... is it like a special edition/DC of it? Screens would be awesome whenever time allows.


I notice it has Spike's logo instead of Human's, too.

Yeah I bought it without knowing anything about it other than the name twilight syndrome.
Found a short memo here: http://www.dreamdawn.com/sh/features/importing_obscure_games_page2.php

"For far too long this game has been denied its due. The Twilight Syndrome series was started by Human (creators of the Clock Tower series) in the mid nineties. By my count there have been six Syndrome titles, but Saikai is the best and the only one worth importing. The others are plagued with heavy text and have serious pacing issues. I do not know a lot of Japanese beyond yes and no, so the true story of this game is a bit of a mystery to me. But I can keep track of names and read images and emotion well enough to get a lot of enjoyment out of this game."

EDIT: Found an alternate boxart as well: http://www.gamerankings.com/ps/578055-twilight-syndrome-saikai/images/box18961.html
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Yeah I bought it without knowing anything about it other than the name twilight syndrome.
Found a short memo here: http://www.dreamdawn.com/sh/features/importing_obscure_games_page2.php

"For far too long this game has been denied its due. The Twilight Syndrome series was started by Human (creators of the Clock Tower series) in the mid nineties. By my count there have been six Syndrome titles, but Saikai is the best and the only one worth importing. The others are plagued with heavy text and have serious pacing issues. I do not know a lot of Japanese beyond yes and no, so the true story of this game is a bit of a mystery to me. But I can keep track of names and read images and emotion well enough to get a lot of enjoyment out of this game."

Interesting... I always thought there was just three, specifically Moonlight and Twilight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Syndrome_(video_game_series)

According to Wiki there's five: Twilight Search and Investigation, Moonlight, Twilight Reunion, and Twlight Forbidden Urban Legend. Interesting.

So it seems like you have the fourth game.
 

Hedgey

Member
I enjoy streaming, and I have a setup with a green screen here in Japan. I wouldn't mind giving this game a whirl, but I'd have to pick up a japanese PS1 or PS2. I've got my NA PS3 but PS1/2 are region locked.
I have a decent knowledge of Japanese, but my written is lacking. Might be able to convince a girl to help translate as we go along. Could be fun.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I enjoy streaming, and I have a setup with a green screen here in Japan. I wouldn't mind giving this game a whirl, but I'd have to pick up a japanese PS1 or PS2. I've got my NA PS3 but PS1/2 are region locked.
I have a decent knowledge of Japanese, but my written is lacking. Might be able to convince a girl to help translate as we go along. Could be fun.

I think the Syndrome games are on the JPSN, if that helps. No region locks there. I know The Silver Case is.
 

Hedgey

Member
I think the Syndrome games are on the JPSN, if that helps. No region locks there. I know The Silver Case is.

Funny story, I actually got The Silver Case from Japanese PS+. Completely forgot about that, haha. No twilight syndrome on here though, just checked.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Funny story, I actually got The Silver Case from Japanese PS+. Completely forgot about that, haha. No twilight syndrome on here though, just checked.

I'm tempted to buy that version. I am not having an easy time using my disc on the PC via PSx. I don't have any other way of playing PS1 imports shy of the JPSN.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
By relative demand, the key players of Kill The Past.
(Syndrome/TSC/FSR edition.)

Most data comes, again, c/o Paradise Hotel 51.
http://paradisehotel51.com/

I hope this goes without saying, but I am about to totally and absolutely spoil The Silver Case, Syndrome, and Flower, Sun, and Rain.

(If you care about those games' stories remaining a mystery, I'd advise bailing out of this thread anyway.)

Syndrome
eyes.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyn-1EWuWQ
(Music!)

Mika Kishi
mika3.gif



A student from Hinashiro high, and protagonist of Twilight Syndrome.

She's pretty good at networking with peers, both in & out of school. Ms Kishi exhibits a curious, but haughty air about her.
Mika always carrieswith her a MD Walkman, a camera, and a pager in her yellow backpack. Mika admires Yukari and she sometimes gets jealous of Chisato.
(Chisato & Yukari are childhood friends who are both in the same grade.)

Mika disappears at the end of Twilight Syndrome, and although presumed dead, is in fact trapped in a TV. (See Killer7 for reference.)


Kyoko Kazan
KazanKyoko1.jpg

(also in: The Silver Case)

Kyoko Kazan is a senior who has been purported to be the spitting image of Mika Kishi.
She was killed early on in a traffic accident while she was riding her vespa.
Her younger brother, Ryo Kazan, has been burdened with immense sadness over her death. Ryo eventually turns his affection over to Mika Kishi, who reminded him of Kyoko.

We later find out that Kyoko was killed due to a contract that Sumio Touba agreed to with a god of contract named Mitra.
Sumio sought to break the Kazan's apart, because he was jealous of Ryo.
Sumio may have had Kyoko's body.

(Even to the end. Sumio kept Kyoko's head, because it was the only trace left of Kyoko's body after the accident.)

screenshot20130130at225.png


However Sumio never could attain the same level of affection, & true love that Kyoko held for her brother. (Yes, that's right, the Kazan's are involved in an incest relationship with each other.)

Note: Mika never really cared much for Kyoko. Mika was way too upset about a rumor that she heard about her.
It's been said that Kyoko may have been Sumio's lover, whom Mika had a crush on.
Unfortunately Mika never does get the chance to go out with Sumio, because Sumio gets killed in a double homicide by a former lover whom was impregnated by him.

Ryo Kazan
250

(Also in: The Silver Case)

tumblr_nabxcaDByD1qfni9go4_r1_400.gif


Talk about issues.

The younger brother of Kyoko Kazan. They shared a bond with each other that far exceeded even the kinship of blood. The Kazan's were involved in an incest relationship with one another. Sumio had Kyoko killed, because he was jealous of the affection that Kyoko had for her brother.

Yayoi showed Ryo to the v.i.p. room of a night club called "Lost Highway".
Sumio was in the backroom waiting for Ryo to show up. Yayoi handed Ryo a bag.
Inside the bag was Kyoko's head.
Ryo kept her head after Sumio was killed during a double homicide by an ex lover.
Ryo received a phone call from Kyoko shortly after he returned home.
However this is impossible, because Kyoko is dead.
It's around this time that Ryo's mind starts to twist & turn the reality around him little by little.
(This eventually escalates into full blown madness by the time we see Ryo in Silver Case.)

What connects Ryo to the story of Moonlight Syndrome is that he was blackmailed by both Yayoi & Mitra to agree with a contract that would ensure Mika Kishi's safety.
Mika was supposed to have been killed by a stalker, but her death was prevented by MITRA when Ryo consented to the contract.
Ryo wants to keep Mika alive, because Mika reminds him of his sister.
He views Mika as his second chance to redeem himself.
Ryo thinks it's his fault that Kyoko died, because he wasn't around to protect her.

To Ryo, Mika is the only remnant of Kyoko that he has left to cling on to.
(Besides Kyoko's head.)
For Ryo, Mika is the last remaining trace of his sanity left on Earth that keeps him from going insane.

What actually happened is that the kid (MITRA) presented Ryo an ultimatum or a contract that would extend Mika's life & ensure her safety.
Ryo consents to the contract, because Mika reminds him of his dead sister.
However the contract is automatically nullified once Ryo or Mika make physical contact with each other.

Ryo has gone insane by the start of The Silver Case, and is the killer in the prologue.

Yayoi Itsushima (Syndrome), aka Yayoi Hanayama (FSR)
Yayoisamein1.jpg
200


An antagonist in Syndrome, rumored to be hiding on Lospass Island in FSR, although this is unconfirmed speculation.


The Silver Case & Flower, Sun, and Rain
silvercaselogo.JPG

Decoyman-CamuiSighting.JPG


Sumio Kodai (TSC), aka Sumio Mondo (Flower, Sun, and Rain)

beast-KodaiSumio.jpg


One of the detectives of the Seven Districts. Sumio Mondo is in fact the main culprit of The Silver Case, out to get revenge for unspeakable crimes inflicted against him and his loved ones.

sumiosearcher.JPG


He later blacks out all memory of this and retreats to Lospass Island in an attempt to forget his past. Suffice it to say, he fails.

Tokio Morishima
tokio-morishima.jpg

fsr-morishimatokio.jpg


Formerly a journalist, now pursuing Sumio and the truth about The Silver Case, even to the ends of the earth... Lospass Island.

Tokio Morishima the true hero of the Silver Case. (Although he pretty much did nothing but check his e-mail everyday , smoke & go out drinking.)

Tokio is a journalist who was investigating the "Silver Case" Turns out that he's been hanging out at Lospass since the events of the "Silver Case".
Upon arrival Morishima greets Sumio with the words "Welcome home"
He gives Sumio Mondo one last job before he leaves Lospass, & that is "To reset time."


Tetsuguro Kusabi
lifecutkusabi.JPG


The detective responsible for ending Ryo Kazan's twisted life, and solving The Silver Case from the 70s, in which several executives were murdered under the order of Sundance Shot, leader of the FSO Party.

He also appears at the very end of FSR, revealing that he has been there all along... masquerading as Peter Bocchwinkur.
9-25qt942.jpg


Toriko Kusabi from FSR is his daughter.



Sundance Shot
(TSC/FSR/Killer7?)

silversundance.jpg

killer-7-beta-sundance-shot.jpg


A feared hitman and leader of the FSO party. Has a major role in both TSC and FSR. Was originally to be in K7, but later removed.

At first he seems to be the antagonist in FSR, but is that really the case?...


Sundance Shot is his full name.
He's one of the few characters who reprise their role from the "Silver Case".
(Actually Sundance only appears during the Silver Case intro & the instruction manual . )
Sundance is believed to be the main antagonist of the story, or at least the nominal villain.
(FSR,as with most Suda 51 games, doesn't really have a villain.)
While his intentions are usually honourable, his methods are a bit suspect.

The FSO party leader.
He once controlled a nonprofit organization for environmental preservation. They were extremely conservative in their beliefs.
It is assumed that the assassin,Uehara Kamui was sent to the TRO/CCO union 20+ years ago & slayed ten of the allied parties executives. The events that followed created a domino effect that escalated & matured into the "Silver Case".

(It's later revealed that the Event 20+ years ago was committed by Fujiwara Kamui,a hired killer that Sundance used as his trump card.
Fujiwara invaded the television tower where the VIP's of the TRO/CCO alliance gathered and tried to exterminate as many as he could.
Tetsuguro Kusabi shot Uehara Kamui & arrested him. The aftermath of this event was later to be privately known as the "Silver Case")
At least that's what the urban myth says, Fujiwara (Format) Camui was actually killed during the assassination attempt,but the remaining VIP's killed each other to obtain his Silver eye.
The deaths of the other vips were later added on to Fujiwara's death toll.

Sundance's FSO wanted to defy the TRO/CCO's Camui Mass Professional plan. To keep this short let's just say that the FSO did not agree with the "shelter children" program. The FSO political party was dismantled before the events of the game "Silver Case" (1999)
The FSO party lost credibility after the Silver Case incident. They were soundly defeated in struggle for supremacy.
The administration center of expulsion,
Relegated the FSO as becoming nothing more than an illegal organization composed of radical groups.
(It's later revealed in the Silver Case that remnants of the FSO party infiltrated the highest ranks of the 24 ward police borough)
The former leader, Sundance was nowhere to be found.
It turns out that he was actually biding his time at Lospass resort during the 1999 Silver incident.

An enigmatic man with a suave demeanor.
Sundance kills Sumio Mondo half way through the game. (Sundance shot Sumio point blank in the face.)
When Toriko Kusabi asked him why he shot Sumio.
Sundance claimed that his sole purpose was to shoot Sumio into a time slip.
A time slip that will result in bringing back Uehara Kamui & restoring order to Lospass island.
Sundance figures that the detective Remy Fauzlie will fall for the ruse & become a stock body of Kamui.

Like Toriko Kusabi, Sundance also had concept art for the Silver Case,but he didn't actually play a role in the game.
(Although Sundance is still referred to [FSO] during the Silver Case.)


There are many, MANY more players in FSR/TSC/Syndrome, but they are the core.


Here have a character chart!

silvercasechartenglish.JPG
 

Dascu

Member
Syndrome
eyes.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyn-1EWuWQ
(Music!)

Mika Kishi
mika3.gif



A student from Hinashiro high, and protagonist of Twilight Syndrome.

She's pretty good at networking with peers, both in & out of school. Ms Kishi exhibits a curious, but haughty air about her.
Mika always carrieswith her a MD Walkman, a camera, and a pager in her yellow backpack. Mika admires Yukari and she sometimes gets jealous of Chisato.
(Chisato & Yukari are childhood friends who are both in the same grade.)

Mika disappears at the end of Twilight Syndrome, and although presumed dead, is in fact trapped in a TV. (See Killer7 for reference.)

Hmm, odd how that reminds me of Alice Twilight from NMH2. Especially her original reveal trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnYmcGCHR2E
 

cj_iwakura

Member
No, I mean the "Kill The Past" saga...

Edit: Specifically the ones before Killer7, on the PS1.

I haven't played any of the Syndrome games, but Danganronpa 2 has the homage game. Based on that, it seems perfectly playable.

The Silver Case is fantastic. I'm having a lot of fun with it, but boy is it weird. And very, VERY talky.

Hmm, odd how that reminds me of Alice Twilight from NMH2. Especially her original reveal trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnYmcGCHR2E

Sigh, NMH2. All that wasted potential. The gameplay and bosses were fine, but the story had none of NMH's wit or meaning. It was just a mindless revenge plot. It feels like the writer(s) missed the point of NMH1.
 

TriAceJP

Member
Very interesting thread.

Does Killer is Dead tie in any way? Probably not, but the name leads me to believe it should.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Very interesting thread.

Does Killer is Dead tie in any way? Probably not, but the name leads me to believe it should.

Loosely. At worst it references it. The full moon implies full-on insanity, like in the KTP games.
Also it is a WEIRD game.

I'll do a write-up on it as well in the 'last gen' section(which would include NMH1/2/KID). Sadly, Shadows of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw really wouldn't be relevant.
 

LProtag

Member
If I knew Japanese I feel like I would be delving into this series completely, but that's sadly not the case.
 
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