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The state of NeoGAF

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Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Jan 19, 2007
8,927
1
0
Biggleswade, UK
WWW.neogaf.com
Twelve+ year poster here... figured I'd give my two cents.

As a poster in the 35-40 age range, I've seen a lot in my days of community bulletin boards and forums - both as a poster and a moderator at other locations. I was a member of a thriving online community twenty damn years ago that had its own exodus and things were never the same. I was even part of the moderation team that might have been negatively responsible for that, unfortunately. I was much younger. Fortunately I've learned a thing or two since.
I've seen online communities broken due to buy-outs, administrative egos going out of control, and just straight up closing due to funding issues or sinking irrelevancy. I've seen site owners in actual tears begging for money because they mismanaged things so poorly in the online spectrum that they found themselves not even being able to pay their rent any more. I've seen bitter jealousy turn to sabotage with forum posters joining together to actively burn someone's livelihood down for no other reason than 'revenge' for bannings or differing opinions. All of these places were not nearly as large as NeoGAF.

I've known seemingly good people in power positions that did scummy things. I've known people that had reputations for being scummy grow and change for the better. The internet is a big place, filled with literally every personality type and combination of types a person can probably imagine.
Communities grow, die, but sometimes they rise from the ashes. One of the forums I referenced above? It somehow crawled through its own controversies and still exists today. It's a shell of what it was, but it's still there. People I knew from twenty years ago are still there. They seem happy. It was the ownership and the handful of posters that weathered the storm that kept it alive. Tomorrow will always come on the internet... presumably. :p I certainly don't think this is 'the end' of NeoGAF... not unless Tyler decides to kill it... but there is certainly a lingering change in the air. That was unavoidable.

I don't know who Tyler Malka is.
Over the years I've put things together based on posts, just like any member big or small around here, but 'good', 'bad'... I don't know. I never presume to know, either. Out of opinions formed based on posts, I can really only be sure of two facts: I do know this is his site. Those in the trenches posting on a regular basis and the hard working mods keeping the trash out might make this place, but his name is above the door. I do know that he is a person with a certain amount of 'internet celebrity' fame/baggage (whichever one might perceive it) which puts him in a position of potential public scrutiny the majority of us could never relate to or understand. It comes with the territory. Oh, that is not an excuse for bad behavior or poor decisions by annnnnny stretch, but it should also be taken into consideration in discussion. I ask myself: "How would I react if a widely spread, nasty story about me came out that I heavily disputed... but the majority of the people didn't want to hear it based on stupid fucking mistakes I made when I was younger?" Sounds like a nightmare of a situation - and it's a harrowing trend I've seen popping up more and more in the realm of social media. The court of public opinion is a powerful thing and despite all of my desperate optimism in this pessimistic world right now, many situations on the internet make it very hard for me not to buy into the reality of 'Guilty Until Proven Innocent'.


For Tyler, that might be determined legally in time. If the situation is being misrepresented, he has the right to defend his reputation, as anyone would. Unfortunately for him, at least for the time being, the swift gavel of internet justice has already shattered the block. It's up to him - and the members of this community that decide to stay - to determine any potential survival of NeoGAF. What form that might take? Time will tell.

Godspeed to those that are leaving. Some of you will be truly missed. Good luck to those that stay. Try to keep this community healthy and just.
Great post.

All the more reason for there to be a proper Step change at GAF.

But again, transparency needs to be at the heart of it. Closing ranks, making moderation opaque and prohibition of certain discussion is the opposite of what needs to happen.

Please, please consider the appointment of an independent moderation panel, rules drawn up in accordance to decent community standards and not one person's views of the world and again Evilore, seperate your ownership of GAF from control of it. If you care about the community you've fostered, you'll step away from trying to be a patriarchal figurehead.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it really does appear that the attention you have previously received from the gaming media, the profiling and coverage has went to your head and affected how you treated this site. If you meant it or not, you've been trying to influence discussion in ways you simply didn't do until recently.

When people think of GAF, they should think of the community, not who runs it.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Apr 8, 2011
616
3
595
Before I will go to "mostly inactive" mode in GAF I will comment on EviLores statement. To get one thing out of the way: Many of the reactions to recent events disgust me and they are not appropriate at all. I understand the anger regarding his continued bad handling of many situations but venting your rage all over the place won't bring any of us together or make anyone feel better but yourself.

If EviLores statement shows us anything that he fails to address what made the mods and community leave GAF. Keeping moderators anonymous is pretty much the worst decision one could make. If we needed one thing it's more transparency and not a shadow team that cannot be hold accountable for anything. There have been bad moderation decision and team dynamics on several occasions; any kind of addressing these problems on the community side was not tolerated. Things are only going to become worse like this.

EviLores statement made clear that we won't be getting any changes that will allow the NeoGAF to get a much needed restart. Also, due to the continued shitty handling of such situations the NeoGAF brand became tainted. Those who blame the OT section for most of the problems from the past ignore the terrible threads we also had in the gaming section. There has always been shit on both sides.

I will be looking forward to a fresh start. It will not be happening here. Evilore wil of course keep the site running as it is financing his life. We will see how the ResetEra will do but it is better to try build up something new than staying at a place that gives me no hope for its future.
 
Aug 27, 2007
32,911
0
0
SJWs, White Knights, Safe spaces, echo chamber


How did this place turn into 4Chan Lite so quickly
It didn't, those people have always been here they're just able to come out and be openly hateful or dismissive of social issues now. Because GAF is now a forum that is dismissive of the current political climate of our entire world.
 

Permanently A

Junior Member
Jan 16, 2012
11,973
0
470
Probably because we're in a time of increased scrutiny for sexual assault due to the Weinstein incident.

Maybe the mods were intimidated by Evilore back then, or didn't care.

Who knows?

Shit changes.

Back to the matter at hand of Evilore's history.
I'm not aware of the law on this, but is it legitimate to arrest someone on a charge (eg speeding) then search their car and find weed, but it turns out that the person wasn't speeding? What happens to the possession charge in that case? Cause it feels analogous to this situation, NeoGAF sure as hell wouldn't have pulled a disappearing act overnight if this allegation (speeding arrest) hadn't happened. The revenge porn and Spain incident would've have continued to be covered up without this catalyst.
 
May 3, 2013
3,731
160
605
Man it sucks to see GAF fall apart like this I wasn’t well known I usually just stayed to Tolkien , NFL , BBQ and walking dead gaf but I always felt like any of my threads I needed help on you guys always have me great advice and helped tremendously. I can’t say what I’d do in the same situation but being the type of quiet nervous guy I am once I saw the door closed over even at the smallest hint if there was one I would have asked if she wanted company. I’m not sure what to do from here I guess let things cool down and see where it goes.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Nov 29, 2006
13,304
1
1,305
GAF has been a major part of my life for 12+ years now, I'm just shy of a month away from my 11 year anniversary as a full member, and barely a day has gone by in that time that I didn't spend at least some time checking in here to see the latest Gaming and OT news and highlights, more often than not I've spent hours upon hours a day here.

Like so many I came here for the games and I stayed for the OT. That was a side of GAF I wish I had discovered and taken a part in much sooner than I did. Despite all its shortcomings and problems GAF and the OT helped to make me a better person. More aware of myself, how I thought, reacted to and viewed the world. I was able to see and learn from people who had life experiences far beyond and different from my own. From people of different Races, Religions, Nationalities, Gender, Sexual Orientation and on and on. It was an invaluable resource for me to grow and develop as a person.

GAF made me want to be a more understanding and empathetic because of this. To look beyond myself, my experiences and my perception of events and issues. And beyond these social issues and exposures the wit, intelligence and expertise so many members displayed over an enormous breadth of fields and subject matters made me want to improve myself and my knowledge to maybe one day be viewed with similar awe and appreciation by other posters.

GAF kept me sane when I was going through depression and helped me feel connected and a part of something while I felt isolated and alone elsewhere in my life. I took part in some discussions and topics a great deal, but mostly I read and observed, and I greatly wish I had been more active and more social with so many of the truly great members and communities on this forum.

Things were never perfect though. The realities of an online forum filled with tens of thousands of passionate people about so many subjects and issues will always result in conflicts. Things certainly got more heated and volatile in the last couple years, as has the rest of the world. I was frustrated plenty of times with the level of discourse, or lack there of, as many others have felt and expressed. I refrained from posting in threads more times than I did post, but not out of fear of being banned, but fear of getting roped into a long and unnecessary argument either with someone I more or less agreed with or with someone who was not honestly interested in having a dialogue. Despite that though, I never thought lesser of GAF or the community. There was still so much good and worthwhile content and people here, both on the Gaming and OT sides.

Mods could be capricious, there have been more than a few scandals of spiteful ban waves, vendettas and inconsistent policy enforcement. But for the most part I always felt members were banned because they deserved it. I've sat on the unpopular side of more than a few topics in both the OT and Gaming side and never once did I fear getting banned for my comments or thoughts, because I was coming into the debate with an honest and open mind. I engaged with other members in good faith, not lying to myself about why I felt the way I did or believed what I did and I acknowledged why others disagreed with me and took the time to examine why they might feel that way.

It's because of all this that I can't in good conscience spend my time here on GAF anymore, despite what a huge part of my life it's been all these years, with the knowledge that EviLore is still in charge and profiting off this community. These allegations alone throw up a huge red flag for me, but it's only the tip of this iceberg. His prior admissions of wrong doing, his mishandling and enabling of Amir0x for years leading to the final bungling of his arrest and pedophilia and other accusations of misconduct, like facilitating in revenge porn, along with the ever increasing number of stories and incidents users, communities and former mods are sharing about him abusing his authority as owner and administrator of GAF has made it impossible for me take part in this forum anymore.

Some of you might be skeptical, or not fully aware of everything, it's not an easy story to follow or grasp the full severity and extent of with information being so scattered and often incomplete, but just the very handling of this latest event should be cause enough for you pause and think about your association, or at least confidence, with EviLore and thus GAF. Make no mistake EviLore is GAF, he owns and controls it. The community is what made it great, but he holds all the keys.

His total silence for days, despite his advanced notice of the allegations, the locking of threads and banning of members wanting some kind of clarity and statement to know just what was going on and what was happening. Mismanaging and taking the mods for granted so badly and for so long that nearly every single one walked away within a matter of hours of this breaking as they'd finally had enough. Allowing the site to fall apart and go offline for days with not a single word to anyone or any outlet about what was going on. Making his first public statement to a news site, not us, where he then went on to undermine the mental health of his accuser, one of the most disgusting, pathetic and transparent tactics anyone can use in a situation like this. And then his return and non-statement on these events and allegations. Ignoring the issues people had, displacing blame from himself and his actions, blaming politics and social issues and OT for the problems on GAF in a cowardly attempt to deflect away from him and his issues. Removing any and all transparency on moderation and wholesale wiping away the OT and dozens of amazing communities and relationships people had developed over years and years with one another. It's a disgrace, all of it.

Regardless of how you feel about the most recent allegation levied against him or your belief in the other accusations and incidents coming to light, this mismanagement of events and disillusion/out of touch response to the conflict is not the actions of leader that can be trusted to in good faith administer this forum and provide the leadership and dependability its moderators and members need and deserve.

I implore you to take a moment and reflect on these events and revelations and EviLore's response and administrative actions and what that means for you, this forum and the community. If you think this is all just some joke, some overblown misunderstanding or some conspiratorial vendetta against EviLore and GAF then I pity you and hope you especially take some time to examine and reevaluate your core beliefs and values. Games have and continue to be a major aspect of my life, but my enjoyment and interest in them doesn't trump my values and how I treat others and how I expect others to act in kind.

I'm so sad that this is how things have gone and it pains me to see this community fall apart and that I have to leave it behind, but it has to happen. Too much has gone unchecked and covered up and the refusal to change has made staying untenable. With luck and hard work something better will take its place. Best of luck to everyone. It's been quite a ride.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
Feb 21, 2007
11,442
0
1,165
Bioshock
Yes, and in those instances he has admitted to doing those things.
No he has not. He lied on the spainsh incident to make the situation more easy on him and make it so the girl started physical on him and was flirting. She was not. Then he proceeded to ban everyone after that who dared to post anything on regards to that situation.
 

Yawnier

Banned
Nov 12, 2010
16,657
0
0
It didn't, those people have always been here they're just able to come out and be openly hateful or dismissive of social issues now. Because GAF is now a forum that is dismissive of the current political climate of our entire world.
Yep, there has always been people like this on gaming side. Most were just too cowardly to post about it most of the time though
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Sep 16, 2006
21,980
0
0
Before I will go to "mostly inactive" mode in GAF I will comment on EviLores statement. To get one thing out of the way: Many of the reactions to recent events disgust me and they are not appropriate at all. I understand the anger regarding his continued bad handling of many situations but venting your rage all over the place won't bring any of us together or make anyone feel better but yourself.

If EviLores statement shows us anything that he fails to address what made the mods and community leave GAF. Keeping moderators anonymous is pretty much the worst decision one could make. If we needed one thing it's more transparency and not a shadow team that cannot be hold accountable for anything. There have been bad moderation decision and team dynamics on several occasions; any kind of addressing these problems on the community side was not tolerated. Things are only going to become worse like this.

EviLores statement made clear that we won't be getting any changes that will allow the NeoGAF to get a much needed restart. Also, due to the continued shitty handling of such situations the NeoGAF brand became tainted. Those who blame the OT section for most of the problems from the past ignore the terrible threads we also had in the gaming section. There has always been shit on both sides.

I will be looking forward to a fresh start. It will not be happening here. Evilore wil of course keep the site running as it his financing his life. We will see how the ResetEra will do but it is better to try build up something new than staying at a place that gives me no hope for its future.
Good post.

Itzxaca: If the girl wasn't interested/flirting with him that certainly makes the incident worse.

Anyway, in the interest of the community the best thing for him to do would be to step down/sell his stake...
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Feb 2, 2006
35,291
11
1,305
SJWs, White Knights, Safe spaces, echo chamber


How did this place turn into 4Chan Lite so quickly
There are hateful (and simply dumb as shit) people in every single community.

However, GAF had strong moderation. And Evilore and the mods let it be known that their shit won't be tolerated.

By saying political and social discussion is banned, that has told these people that it's okay for them to speak up now. I don't think that was the intention but it was the result.
 

Anime Avatar

Neo Member
Apr 16, 2016
67
1
0
Eveyone who has been here for a while and wasn't a complete idiot knew the shit about Evilore. It was literally a Google search away. They did do a good job of deleting and banning every mention of it here on GAF though. Good job mods for enabling him.

No one liked or respected him but the mods put up with him because ?????? Even after the despicable way the amir0x situation was handled.

Did you ever read anything he wrote here? He's weird as hell

This site was held together by nothing, as you can clearly see.
 

shoelacer

Banned
Feb 28, 2016
964
0
0
Right I'm just really confused, I mean surely if there's evidence of a crime (which revenge porn is right?) then why has nothing criminal been brought forth?
cuz cops aren't trolling GAF offshoots for decades old posts, and lord knows what they'd even charge? are you retarded?
 

Crew 511A

Member
Jun 29, 2017
307
166
275
That's what happens when you let the gamers run the asylum without a strong moderation team in the trenches to check that shit.
Realistically, people just don't care anymore if they get banned from here. Lots of people were self censoring themselves because they didn't want to get the ban hammer for not regurgitating leftist talking points. Now that the ship is going down, there's no reason to worry about getting kicked out.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Dec 5, 2008
25,320
0
0
I think this is it then. The very worst of gaf has been enabled because of both your behaviour and in the way you've handled the situation. You could've just posted this in a community thread, let people talk it over and decide what to do but instead you spend all week crafting that bullshit statement in which you assume no responsibility (because of course) and talk to the media before you talk to your own site.

Your claims (among many where it's someone else's fault) that girl was out to get your because they're mentally ill is just so offensive I think if I typed what I wanted to type you'd just delete it. I hope more people read that waypoint article so they can see what you're like in your own words. You had all weekend to come up with something and this is the best you could do, it's truly appalling.

Thanks to all the great communities but this is your mess and now you get to live in it.
 
Jun 9, 2011
16,652
0
0
www.neogaf.com
This is what EL said to the mods on Saturday night. This is why the fallout has been so big. If EL just came out and said, "I'm a fucking moron" many posters probably would've come back. Instead EL took the GG approach and fucked it all up. The "wait for the facts" people need to shut the hell up because it's too late for that and doesn't even matter now because of his response. If you're cool with victim blaming, then cool, you'll be in good company on NeoGAF. The rest of us don't want to be associated with that shit.
Okay, so, this is a personal and somewhat complex web of nonsense involving a highly unstable individual I was friends and briefly FWBs with, but I can only assume there will be a never-ending clusterfuck on gaf now until the end of time, which inevitably involves you guys and gals on the mod team in some way, so I'm an open book here. The woman in question ended up being completely psychotic and held a grudge against me after a bizarre love triangle situation developed a few years ago between me, her, and another girl (the other girl I ended up in a long-term relationship with shortly thereafter). This NOLA story she apparently just put up on social media is a delusion of a deeply disturbed person who had a total psychological breakdown as a result of me and the other girl getting together, because she (phew, yeah...) became obsessively infatuated with the other girl (she's bi) on sight when the three of us met up. I wanted to just stay friends with the girl making the accusation and made it super super clear ahead of time that me and the other girl were interested in each other romantically and that could play out as such when we met up. Supposedly this was not a problem for her from accusation, but in reality she uhhh wanted me to die painfully after seeing me and the other girl interact. Plus she became infatuated with the other girl simultaneously to this (she's bi), which created the aforementioned bizarre love triangle that ended up causing her to implode and have an apparently very intense and long-lasting grudge. The whole story about how that love triangle thing played out is, frankly, nuts and scary, and involves this girl bringing us to a compound of dangerous scientology spinoff cultists on that same trip, who roofied us, attempted to recruit/scam me and attempted to abduct/surprise sex the girl I ended up dating, in what was a loving scary situation that resulted in me and the other girl and the rest of my friend circle never speaking to this girl from the accusation again.
As someone from NOLA, I want details and an address of this scientology-spinoff cult. He should be able to provide this. If not, he can describe the building and area, I've lived here for 40 years, I can probably take a guess. This is the first I've heard of this sort of thing, unless of course next he's going to mention that Marie Laveau possessed his accuser, in which case maybe he was the victim of an elaborate tourist trap.

Oh, he might want to mention she was bi again, someone might have missed it. If he had just mentioned it one more time, maybe all the mods would have stayed.
 

Spizz

Banned
Oct 12, 2015
701
0
0
23
Canada
Hello please perma ban me from this place thanks!

Also the night of the super bowl where all you people were hating on Brady purely because of politics had to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. Peace
 

fresquito

Member
Apr 22, 2005
9,269
0
0
lfoclub.com
I'm with you on this that the reaction is a bit over the top. But we can‘t just dismiss it with „Deal with it” posts. This whole situation is gonna change GAF long-term and these „I‘m leaving” posts bring much needed attention to the issue. I probably wouldn‘t have a clue anything major happened if they didn‘t exist.
Then maybe it's not that major.
 

cleveridea

Member
Mar 7, 2005
5,257
1
0
cuz cops aren't trolling GAF offshoots for decades old posts, and lord knows what they'd even charge? are you retarded?
No I mean I am hearing all the terrible accusations without any evidence. I cant see the pictures so I have no idea how credible people are when they say its revenge porn.
 
Feb 27, 2014
2,926
2
315
I will say that this whole resetera has felt very ambiguous. As a frequent gaffer that has been unable to speak to or join any group working through this new project, I have felt very much in the dark and completely confused by this new start up. It feels much less like a community migration and much more like waiting for the next new thing to 'drop'. Even the twitter account has been silent except for a 7 second 'trailer'. I don't want hype, this isn't a new pair of yeezys. I just want to know what's going on with my online gaming community/family, and instead feel like I'm left out in the dark.
I'd like to address this, as I just barely got my foot in the door to keep up with what's been going on with this, and if I had missed everything until logging into NeoGAF today, I would probably have the same opinion: that it isn't clear what's going on, splinter groups never seem to work out for long anyway, the mass account suicides and ban requests do not make this crowd look good, and shutting down Off-Topic and making GAF games-only again might even be a good idea.

Many of my own concerns have been eased (though not all), so I hope to clarify a few things. Also, even as someone who ignored Off-Topic and largely avoided the drama/outrage threads on gaming side, I am not at all convinced that GAF will deliver that kind of environment even with the kind of restructuring that, on paper, caters directly to my tastes.

Note that I'm not directly involved in setting up ResetEra myself, so there's a lot I don't know and am not in a position to talk about.

Over the weekend, it was not clear to anyone whether NeoGAF would come back, or if so, how soon and in what form. (I, for one, spent way too much time trying to grab all the cache/archive links I could to save major threads and some of my own posts for the sake of preservation, since it was already down when I arrived on the scene.) The lack of any communication from EviLore contributed substantially to this. This is the important thing: regardless of what you make of his personal situation or the allegations, everyone understood at once that it was an incredibly fragile situation to have your own self-governing communities/networks live or die by the mercurial hand of someone who could flip the lights off at any time for no reason or take his ball and go home—which, for the people on Off-Topic side, is exactly what happened anyway once GAF came back up.

Naturally, people who wanted to salvage what they loved about this place, with no idea of what the future held, realized two things:

(a) There is no natural substitute for GAF as a catch-all forum that is both a first resort for industry news (making the hovering enthusiast press totally redundant, by my reckoning) and a shared plaza for communities that would, in other forum structures, be totally balkanized;

(b) It's probably a good idea to build a worthy substitute now, right now, while there is enough broad agreement to do it (and enough impatience to keep the communities going with or without NeoGAF) such that it might actually get off the ground, without the usual splintering problems of a few angry people doing it halfheartedly while the rest hang back.

People not in the loop also went directly to the next available point of contact, which was any of the Discord servers that they might have signed up for in a game OT or community thread. Understand that at the time, this was the only convenient way of getting back in touch at all.

Several dozen of these Discord servers rapidly coordinated an effort to get a new place up and running. They made a commitment to the transition well before we had any statement from EviLore or indication of how soon GAF would be back up, because at this point it was unknown whether either of these things were coming. Also, to my knowledge, the red-name mods who resigned from NeoGAF are not the new administration but have stepped back to an advisory capacity to help get things off the ground.

How big is the exodus? Well, I think we'll need to let the dust settle over the next few weeks before we know how committed people are to really moving over, but: those volunteers you depend on to set up game OTs, weekly sales threads, community projects like game clubs, contests, voting threads, Discord channels, and GAF groups on other multiplayer services—they're pretty much all planning to join the move. If none of these things are relevant to your GAF experience, or if you trust the remaining membership here to take its place (there's been a lot of turnover in the past few years anyway), fair enough. Again, we'll know how things look in a couple of weeks, but know that a ton of the volunteer infrastructure driving the big threads here intends to move on.

Resetera needs to get its house in order. I will urge anyone who is going to join that Twitter/forum be aware 4chan/gg has ALREADY infiltrated it and are posting screenshots of the mod/admin conversations, regular people conversations, peoples discord handles etc. And from those screenshots it looks like a lot of angry people shitting on other people they dont like and some really... interesting rules.

Also RESETRA needs to figure oit who on their advisors/mods whatever is leaking all your private conversations cause its painting you in a bad light.
This is being addressed. The leaks in question were from earlier this weekend and, being in the channel at the time, I can say that they were pretty selectively taken to make the place look bad, and may even have been incited by people looking to cause trouble. There were a lot of incidents of people tugging the channels towards mudslinging of controversial YouTube figures despite specifically being told by others to stop.

If you are concerned about privacy, then yes, I encourage you to hang back for a few weeks and see how things go, as everyone expects ResetEra to be a target for disruption in the early stages. As I understand it, membership will not be an open sign-up in the early stages while they get a system in place to ensure that the people who want to claim the user handles they use on GAF are the right people.

Finally—and this is directed partly at those who, like me, are optimistic about rebuilding elsewhere—I completely agree that the mass account suicides, overflowing outrage, and accusations that those who want to stay with GAF for now are a bunch of abuse enablers do not reflect well on what the departing community will be like. I would like to think we can be better than that. With the information we have, it's a perfectly valid decision for people who don't see any viable substitute to GAF live and operational right now to declare they would like to stay. We shouldn't be casting aspersions on each other just because of a decision to leave or stay, especially as we are not all privy to the same information.

GAF has historically had a massive problem with people who follow news items day by day, hour by hour, jumping to early conclusions, turning those conclusions into their new reality, abandoning all empathy for those who did not keep up and legitimately don't know what's going on, and bullying out the voices calling for some patience and forbearance. And if you're concerned about this repeating over there—well, again, I urge you to wait and see. (I know that I won't stick around with the new environment for long if it inherits all the same toxicity.) Just be aware that staying on NeoGAF might be a hollowed-out experience in the near term.

In the end I'll be going where the best games discussion and coverage will be. In this respect, GAF has historically been unmatched, but I'm not convinced it will remain so, and I suspect the restructuring will have the opposite effect of the one intended and make the conversation worse by driving the core communities away, as the core communities no longer see the stability of this platform as something worthy of trust.
 
Jul 6, 2013
1,196
0
0
Massachusetts
I was not on the site all weekend and have just been catching up on everything this morning. I'll be interested to see what the new OT looks like. I agree that, at times, there were far too many political threads cropping up. I wouldn't call them 'toxic' though, maybe redundant. Typically, it would be a thread of Trump says/does/tweets something horrible and we'd all react the same and talk about how inappropriate or toxic his actions were. Which is fine, but like I said redundant.

I would hate to see Off-Topic became a place where we can't discuss politics, news, current events, etc. I understand trying to limit how many tragic stories are posted (I believe there was even a rule where if the only response is 'that was awful' don't post it.). However, I look at events like an election, major changes to laws, escalation between governments, the Las Vegas tragedy, medical breakthroughs/research, etc. This are events that I think should be open to discussion on this forum and I appreciated how we can talk about, seemingly, anything on the site. That's something you just don't get from all other gaming sites.

Once the dust settles and OT is back up and running I hope it is close to what it was before. I don't want to see this site became a watered down version of its old self, I want us to still have the freedom to express our opinions and voice our differences.

As for this specific incident, it is disappointing to say the least. Regardless of what history or what happened after this incident, it's unbelievably inappropriate to walk in the shower with someone. This person was also in a relationship with someone else at the time. Sounds like he did back off when she shut him down so that's a small something.

The bar incident is equally disappointing. Someone asking you to buy them a drink doesn't give you the right to 'grab her ass hard'. Someone mentioned the posting of pictures of an ex without consent as well. I've read nothing other than that person's comment. If true it is beyond disgusting. EDIT: Ok, looks like that is true as well. Absolutely disgusting behavior and unfortunately adds to a troubling, vile, and reprehensible pattern of stories.

Regardless of how serious others view these allegations, the comments made after the fact were lacking. Mistakes were made and never owned up to. A lot of excuse making, a lot of blaming of the woman, and a lot of that's just how it is there (in the bar incident)

Anyway, that's my opinion. If that gets me banned then so be it. This has always been a place where you could calmly discuss your opinions on situations and I've done that here.
 

nikos

Member
Oct 28, 2012
6,494
34
595
Brooklyn, NY
www.heartofbattle.com
I have not weighed in on the situation, because I’m here for gaming discussion, but I’ll address it with one post.

Those who have never been in a relationship don’t know better than to believe the first person claiming to be a victim. Those who are jumping to conclusions aren’t old, wise, or experienced enough to know the way the world works. Some people are crazy and will stop at nothing to ruin you. Especially those who have developed feelings for you that weren’t reciprocated. Especially when you have more to lose than they do.

People are immediately believing everything they read, jumping to conclusions, and making accusations. I’ve been reading the GAF hashtag on twitter, and it’s apparent that most of these kids are in their teens/early 20s and live a sheltered life. They haven’t experienced relationships, and the madness that could surround them.

All of these people who are leaving a wonderful community based on a Facebook post are going to feel really stupid about it soon. The rest of us who have experienced the world and know better will still be here discussing gaming. I really can’t wait until this blows off.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Jan 19, 2007
8,927
1
0
Biggleswade, UK
WWW.neogaf.com
Before I will go to "mostly inactive" mode in GAF I will comment on EviLores statement. To get one thing out of the way: Many of the reactions to recent events disgust me and they are not appropriate at all. I understand the anger regarding his continued bad handling of many situations but venting your rage all over the place won't bring any of us together or make anyone feel better but yourself.

If EviLores statement shows us anything that he fails to address what made the mods and community leave GAF. Keeping moderators anonymous is pretty much the worst decision one could make. If we needed one thing it's more transparency and not a shadow team that cannot be hold accountable for anything. There have been bad moderation decision and team dynamics on several occasions; any kind of addressing these problems on the community side was not tolerated. Things are only going to become worse like this.

EviLores statement made clear that we won't be getting any changes that will allow the NeoGAF to get a much needed restart. Also, due to the continued shitty handling of such situations the NeoGAF brand became tainted. Those who blame the OT section for most of the problems from the past ignore the terrible threads we also had in the gaming section. There has always been shit on both sides.

I will be looking forward to a fresh start. It will not be happening here. Evilore wil of course keep the site running as it his financing his life. We will see how the ResetEra will do but it is better to try build up something new than staying at a place that gives me no hope for its future.
Hear hear.

It's a drum I encourage people who care about GAF to beat until it is listened to.

Modbot is possibly the worst thing this forum has ever seen (outside of raffle and competition stuff).

You don't address claims of unfair and arbitrary moderation by removing the moderation from the community. The whole reason why moderation worked as well as it did here is because the mods were from, and part of the community. Remove that and you'll end up with no trust in the moderation team, and no reason for the moderation team to care about any decisions they make.

Transparency and accountability to the community is the only way forward.
 

Sorc3r3r

Member
Jun 6, 2007
1,519
43
1,155
There are hateful (and simply dumb as shit) people in every single community.

However, GAF had strong moderation. And Evilore and the mods let it be known that their shit won't be tolerated.

By saying political and social discussion is banned, that has told these people that it's okay for them to speak up now. I don't think that was the intention but it was the result.
Echo chamber echoes.
Everything is fine.
 

KarneeKarnay

Member
Mar 4, 2014
1,981
56
325
London, UK
www.markeenrw.com
Hear hear.

It's a drum I encourage people about GAF to beat until it is listened to.

Modbot is possibly the worst thing this forum has ever seen (outside of raffle and competition stuff).

You don't address claims of unfair and arbitrary moderation by removing the moderation from the community. The whole reason why moderation worked as well as it did here is because the mods were from, and part of the community. Remove that and you'll end up with no trust in the moderation team, and no reason for the moderation team to care about any decisions they make.

Transparency and accountability to the community is the only way forward.
+1
 

Chariot

Member
Jul 6, 2013
27,687
0
475
Eveyone who has been here for a while and wasn't a complete idiot knew the shit about Evilore. It was literally a Google search away. They did do a good job of deleting and banning every mention of it here on GAF though. Good job mods for enabling him.

No one liked or respected him but the mods put up with him because ?????? Even after the despicable way the amir0x situation was handled.

Did you ever read anything he wrote here? He's weird as hell

This site was held together by nothing, as you can clearly see.
Ignorance was bliss. He didn't post all that much and it was easy enough to just forget that he exists.

The mods also under the hand allowed some alts they knew of to exist, because some of these usets were banned by evilore because of arsine reasons.
 

Carl2291

Member
Feb 16, 2015
1,626
0
350
While I don't really post here much and I'm affiliated with a forum that's generally disliked by the NeoGAF userbase, I'd like to chime in with my own thoughts. The likelihood of you reading them is minimal, but everyone else is having a go so why not?

Firstly, if you really do decide to continue on as the owner of this forum... This needs to be a lesson to both you and whoever is left on your staff. For years now, GAF has been growing a reputation as a place where you simply aren't allowed to share opinions and thoughts of a mindset that isn't your "typical GAF hivemind" (to use a well used phrase) mindset. This isn't just coming from political discussion or social issues, but in gaming discussion too. Dogpiling, personal attacks, repeated ad hominem and strawmans, unreasonable moderation and a real lack of common sense to go in hand with it (from users and staff alike). While driving out the far right, bigots and GG supporters is fine and dandy (and should be encouraged on all areas of the forum), when innocent people get caught in that crossfire by a bunch of self-righteous pricks it isn't healthy for the growth of the community or discussion in general.

Threads about issues like this wouldn't really foster any kind of discussion, they were generally full of people immediately pushing guilt on those accused - I hope now from the reaction of your userbase that you can see how poisonous this kind of mindset can be when it's pushed and allowed in general discussion. Hell, as you can see right now, people are immediately dismissing your statement and attacking you. Whether you're right or wrong, this isn't the way these things should be handled or discussed. What's important here though is that your moderators have accepted this kind of behavior for as long as I can remember. This is a behavior and mindset that your own forum has encouraged.

That needs to change. If you ever do decide to bring back political and social issues discussion, the people who are left here need to be allowed to actually discuss these issues without a) being attacked, b) having to roam through spam "me too", "disgusting", "fuck that guy" posts to find something worthwhile and c) having moderators hide behind anonymity and censoring any kind of opinion they don't agree with.

As a forum for discussing things outside of politics, there really isn't anywhere I've found with a more positive and welcoming community. The Gaming Community and Off Topic Community forums? Any threads regarding sports, movies, TV shows, mental health, books or general hobbies? They're the best. Those were the communities that made GAF a home for so many people. They were the reason I joined this forum. People supportive of each other and happy to talk about these things with minimal drama or need for moderation. I'd like to say thank you to those members who created and pushed those communities, and I hope to see them elsewhere on the internet at some point down the line.

Back to the accusations against you, while they are still up in the air this forum will never be what it once was. While you personally are at the helm, NeoGAF will be a shadow of its former self. I don't know if you're innocent or guilty in this case, but while this is hanging over your head, you're going to be what brings this forum down. If you have any real love for the communities you helped to build, I think you'd step down from your position, apologize for your actions and let someone else try to rebuild what was one of the best communities on the internet.

If there was only one accusation against you, I could understand people still wanting to support you and your forum, but when there is so, so much going against you with things being dragged up from the past, you're fighting a losing battle. As they say, there's no smoke without fire. Your reputation is gone. This forums reputation is gone. The dedicated userbase that built this forum is leaving en masse to other forums...

It's time to pack it up and move on.
 

Doukou

Member
Jul 31, 2014
2,450
0
0
Are there any sites similar to Neogaf?

Also screw EviLore. The whole deal with Amir0x should have tipped me off
 

cooperma

Member
Sep 13, 2014
102
0
0
Hey guys we all know the golden rule

No doesnt mean no. It means try harder.

Get fucked evilore. Ban me just like when you got kicked out rivendell half elf
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Feb 17, 2005
15,979
19
1,675
44
Baseless, huh?


Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)


Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.


You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM
I didn’t know that, this is bad :(
 

Axial

Member
Mar 27, 2012
621
0
545
37
Warsaw, Poland
www.cdg.net
You seem unnecessarily outraged.
Nah, just a bit annoyed by the double standards and moral migedtry certain users have shown over the past couple of days.

All he did was post his forum stats. These are just the facts, dude.
These may be facts, I'd argue though they're of no importance to what that Evil guy wrote. I mean sure there's the possibility it's a throwaway account by one of the usual suspects - he still made a valid argument that people who feel morally obliged to leave should do so without being assholes about it. You wanna make a point that you're somehow a better human being? Fine, do it, quit, don't post, but don't assume everyone is going to give you a pat on the back while you're feigning ignorance on the way out(just like all the shmucks in Hollywood did with the Weinstein scandal).

GAF is gonna be fine, as inclusive as ever, there's proof of it right here in this thread with some dubious users getting banned, so there's no need to dramatize. Contrary to popular believe OT wasn't the be-all end-all to GAF. I always enjoyed the discussions people had on the gaming side more than OT and that's why I'm going to stay.
 

17 Seconds

Banned
Jan 11, 2015
4,352
8
300
Once the dust settles and OT is back up and running I hope it is close to what it was before. I don't want to see this site became a watered down version of its old self, I want us to still have the freedom to express our opinions and voice our differences.
it's going to be the complete opposite of what gaf was
 

Omiee

Member
Mar 16, 2009
12,772
0
855
CasaFreakingBlanca
Iv been a lurker for years before i joined neogaf almost a decade ago. I personally dont know evilore or the girl or the facts besides his post and her story on facebook.

What i do know is that i never been a member of a better community than Gaf is. From real life incidents and events to all the E3 threads etc.

i wont be leaving and i hope we a as a community get over this and wont lose what made Gaf so good compared to other forums.
 
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