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The Tempest Engine Inside PS5 is Just a PS3 Cell Processor ?

Dontero

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It is AMD TrueAudio chip standard in GPUs lately rebranded as Tempest so that Sony fanboys will talk about something.
 
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RScrewed

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It's a number cruncher correct, why not use it as a dedicate chip for AI and physics based destruction calculations.

Couldnt it even be used to calculate ray tracing and the bounces for light?

Or am I thinking about this all wrong?

General purpose CPUs (read: anything non-GPU) are performant at processing data in serial. Complex calculations like happen in succession very quickly.

GPUs can be thought of as having opposite strengths, they excel at simple calculations but at many orders of parallelism, such moving the vertices of a shape.

In which case, if these sound processors really were cut from the same cloth (so-to-speak), physics and raytracing would be out of their wheelhouse.
 
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Caffeine

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i always thought this slide was weird why does it have an expansion like things are missing.

 

LordOfChaos

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It's not likely the exact Cell, they said it's a modified CU from the GPU, but I think they're doing the reverse of the PS3 BC situation. Back then, the hardware was built into early versions, but the software didn't always come along, so they had over promised.

It was weird to me that they went back 15 years and two generations to describe the Tempest engine as SPU-like, so maybe what they're doing is just saying it's for audio at first, but are working at PS3 BC and using that for any tricky SPU code, without promising anything just yet as they work on it.
 
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LordOfChaos

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The PS3 CPU is better than PS4 one?

It's not so simple, the Cell was very SIMD heavy, that's almost all an SPU was apart from some local memory and DMA engines, and that's why it excelled in that Ubisoft dancers benchmark, but a game doesn't spend all its time running pure SIMD. The Jaguar was not a powerful CPU even at the time, but it's still a much more modern processor with prefetching, caches, out of order processing, which make general code you'd write faster invisibly, while the Cell was all about hand wringing out more performance as the silicon budget was spent on as much peak SIMD as you could get at the time.

As Ubisoft also concluded, what the Cell was better at is also now much better suited to a GPU.
 
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chilichote

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- Who in the actual fuck believes that the Tempest Engine has some kind of own die? It is connected to the memory bus (takes max. 20GB/s) and runs at GPU frequency (variable but max. 2.23Ghz). Why would the tempest engine be outside of the GPU???? It is a CU of the GPU. Thats why it runs at GPU frequency! The question remains, if one of the 36CUs is being used as the TE or one of the deactivated ones (which makes no sense to me).
I think it is part of the GPU but not part of the other CUs, because 4 of them are deactivated because of the yield and it was explicitly said that the Tempest Engine was revised and not that all CUs have this revision as well. I personally would interpret that the Tempest Engine is part of the GPU but independent of the rest of the shaders.

I'm looking forward to the tear down promised by Cerny!
 
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What do you think guys ?

I think that
The Tempest Engine is effectively the hardware chip inside the PS5 which makes all of this fancy 3D audio technology possible. As explained by Digital Foundry, the "Tempest Engine is effectively a re-engineered AMD GPU compute unit, stripped of its caches and relying solely on DMA transfers"

I think it's a cool chip that will enhance audio capabilities while offloading tasks from the CPU.

That's all I really care about.
 
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mili2110

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So you can deactivate the cache from a CU and have a "Tempest Engine"!? That means that you could take any of othe 36 active CUs as the tempest engine? I cant but help think that one of the 36 CUs is being used as the tempest engine. I dont think you could re-purpose one of the defective CUs for audio....I hope Cerny will address those concerns sooner or later. Or is there other info?
 

itsjustJEFF

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The PS3 CPU is better than PS4 one?
Probably not, the CPU's in the PS5/XBSX are pretty great. But, apparently the Cell CPU is better than the Jaguars. The issue is that they're a B to code for. You'd supposedly have to code in a completely different way than if you were coding for the 360. But if you did put in the effort, then the results were great. Sorry, I forgot which dev made that statement. If i find it I'll update my post.
 

LordOfChaos

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So you can deactivate the cache from a CU and have a "Tempest Engine"!? That means that you could take any of othe 36 active CUs as the tempest engine? I cant but help think that one of the 36 CUs is being used as the tempest engine. I dont think you could re-purpose one of the defective CUs for audio....I hope Cerny will address those concerns sooner or later. Or is there other info?


It's not taking one of the 36. They couldn't have claimed their GPU numbers if it was, mathematically.

It's CU-like but modified to rely on DMA rather than caches, I don't know where physically it resides and would be vaguely curious, but there's about zero chance it's taking away from the 36 active CUs they already claim.

Disabling a CU for yields also doesn't mean it's a defective part on all chips or that every part of it is defective. I wonder if disabling the caches and no longer counting it as a CU is the disabled bit to improve yields, but enough is functional to work as the Tempest.
 

Entroyp

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No, it’s a modified AMD CU that resembles and operates similarly to a Cell SPU.

That doesn’t not mean the PS5 has a Cell processor in it.
 

Kerlurk

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RaySoft

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So you can deactivate the cache from a CU and have a "Tempest Engine"!? That means that you could take any of othe 36 active CUs as the tempest engine? I cant but help think that one of the 36 CUs is being used as the tempest engine. I dont think you could re-purpose one of the defective CUs for audio....I hope Cerny will address those concerns sooner or later. Or is there other info?
No, its not that simple. The way I see it Cerny used the CU reference because they probably takes up about the same die size and use the same interconnects.
But it's NOT a CU. Its a totally custom piece streamlined for simd operations and probably something else optimized for sound calculation. The SPU reference was thrown in for a nice nod to the Cell, where the SPUs functions in a similar way.
You can NOT turn a regular CU into a tempest like block using software;-)
 
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