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The Tomorrow Children (PS4, Pixeljunk guys) uses Cascaded Voxel Cone Tracing

Vire

DancingJesus
Aug 16, 2009
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There will be plenty of "skyboxes" in the release version :)
That's the easiest thing for us to add to, so we will also be updating with different weather and lighting conditions and the like after we launch.

We have some amazing sunsets in our latest builds already.
Fantastic, thanks for the response Dylan. That's really good to hear, I'm a sucker for pretty sunsets and rain, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys are cooking up.
 
Aug 10, 2013
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It's Polyushke Poyle by the Red Army Choir - translated it means "Fields O Fields" or something like that and is a song about a soldier on the battlefield lamenting the green fields of home :)
You can find examples on youtube and their CDs are on itunes or amazon. (there other songs are pretty damn awesome too)
thank you so much, will definitely check them out.
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,812
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660
Because I've read quite a few post throughout various threads downplaying the advantages of closed-platform programming made in a mad crusader's attempt at arguing that consoles have no reason to exist. And that pissed me off.
I would never argue that considering some of my favorite games every are console games (and I absolutely enoyed every console I have owned). I would of course argue that "coding to the metal is overstated." For example, this is an example of an API advantage, not that they went in and made sure every register was used with assembly code or something.

Also, re-read my posts from other threads. I am definitely not as hostile as you claim.
 

El-Pistolero

Member
Oct 26, 2010
2,239
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It does look incredible indeed...and creepy as hell! This is the first online game I am looking to try out, as I am a fan of solo adventures first and foremost.
 

HiVision

Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,054
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I would never argue that considering some of my favorite games every are console games (and I absolutely enoyed every console I have owned). I would of course argue that "coding to the metal is overstated." For example, this is an example of an API advantage, not that they went in and made sure every register was used with assembly code or something.
Actually we do optimize down to the register level for a lot of stuff; we check and fine-tune all the important core loops to that level. It's how we squeeze stuff to be the fastest it can be.
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,812
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Actually we do optimize down to the register level for a lot of stuff; we check and fine-tune all the important core loops to that level. It's how we squeeze stuff to be the fastest it can be.
Well I consider myself "checked!" Hats off to your studio!

Honestly did not expect to hear that the work is so thorough. Do you imagine the work you have been done being readily portable to other GCN GPUs / or other GPUs in general (excluding its language translation)? Or is it custom tailored quite a bit and would need a serious rewrite?
 

KKRT00

Member
Feb 13, 2011
14,456
0
0
Warsaw - Poland
Actually we do optimize down to the register level for a lot of stuff; we check and fine-tune all the important core loops to that level. It's how we squeeze stuff to be the fastest it can be.
So why You had so many blank spots in the graphic pipeline? Your post-processing was not parallel enough in shader code? And it was easier achievable with compute?

---
Edit: Speaking of that...

Sod off.
Oh wow. You know, because ambitious game sell so well on consoles - oh wait, they dont usually.
 

HiVision

Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,054
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Well I consider myself "checked!" Hats off to your studio!

Honestly did not expect to hear that the work is so thorough. Do you imagine the work you have been done being readily portable to other GCN GPUs / or other GPUs in general (excluding its language translation)? Or is it custom tailored quite a bit and would need a serious rewrite?
No, we have geared it all specifically to the PS4. I mean, with some work of course it could be re-geared but we're exclusive so there's no point in writing code with portability in mind, and it gets us faster meaner leaner code.
 

HiVision

Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,054
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So why You had so many blank spots in the graphic pipeline? Your post-processing was not parallel enough in shader code? And it was easier achievable with compute?
I'm not sure if it is easier, but you certainly get better results.

As for the other holes - well we aren't finished yet! We only have so many people and so much time, so we just concentrate on the parts that will give us the bigger gains to begin with, and then move onto the smaller more itty bitty stuff.
 

KKRT00

Member
Feb 13, 2011
14,456
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0
Warsaw - Poland
I'm not sure if it is easier, but you certainly get better results.

As for the other holes - well we aren't finished yet! We only have so many people and so much time, so we just concentrate on the parts that will give us the bigger gains to begin with, and then move onto the smaller more itty bitty stuff.
I meant mostly about blank or low gpu usage parts like 18-19ms, 15-16, 16.5-17 in graphic pipeline that were eliminated in async graph.
But maybe both were taken from very different loadouts.

Thanks for answering btw :)
 

hesido

Member
May 23, 2013
4,625
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Turkey
www.hesido.com
I'm not sure if it is easier, but you certainly get better results.

As for the other holes - well we aren't finished yet! We only have so many people and so much time, so we just concentrate on the parts that will give us the bigger gains to begin with, and then move onto the smaller more itty bitty stuff.
Great work... I'm hoping this could be achieved on a 60fps pipeline in the future. One can only hope!
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,812
4
660
No, we have geared it all specifically to the PS4. I mean, with some work of course it could be re-geared but we're exclusive so there's no point in writing code with portability in mind, and it gets us faster meaner leaner code.
Interesting to hear. Thanks for the response (it is seldom that a dev comes by and answers honestly and indepth about things like this, so I am quite grateful).

Shame about your exclusivity (wink wink nudge nudge) :p
 

wonderdung

Member
Oct 29, 2010
740
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I meant mostly about blank or low gpu usage parts like 18-19ms, 15-16, 16.5-17 in graphic pipeline that were eliminated in async graph.
But maybe both were taken from very different loadouts.

Thanks for answering btw :)
Low occupancy doesn't necessarily imply low usage. A well-constructed workload can max out the GPU with only one wavefront per SIMD.

GCN is a really complicated beast. In some cases you can tell when it's not maxed, though, and the lone event at 18-19ms is one of those. It's not that big of a deal since the async covers it, so best to spend the time elsewhere.
 

LukasTaves

Member
Dec 14, 2011
9,869
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Lukas - you really need to read the pdf - we ditched octrees for 3d textures which sped up everything, especially when we moved to multiple sets of 3d textures. Have a read through, we have some pretty damn good optimisations detailed in there.
Oh, I will definitely read it! A little bit out of time these days (about to enter vacation next week and tons of stuff to finish before I leave), but it's already on my reading list!

Just a clarification, though. When you say: "Speed up everything", do you mean that the whole process got faster or have you guys managed to literally make everything faster without the octree, including the cone tracing phase? If so, WOW, can't wait to read it!

Oh, and congrats, your game looks amazing, and not just from a tech/visual perspective (which does looks amazing too). Hope you guys have a hit on your hands!
 
We're finally starting to see the benefits of PS4's GPGPU capabilities.

Have you guys had any visits from the ICE team or any of Cerny's brain trust?
ACE use was one of Cernys big promises and you guys look like the pioneers, and I'm presuming from the presentation that the lessons learned will benefit future Sony titles.

I hope Sony give this major marketing, as its the first true next gen title I've seen, with nothing on previous gen that even comes close.
Sony's first and second party studios share know how don't they?

Remember that Cerny said devs will get more out of the PS4 in year 3 and 4, and the amazing looking The Tomorrow Children and Uncharted 4 are only year 2. Truly a future proof console.
 

IAmRandom31

Banned
Aug 4, 2013
12,790
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We're finally starting to see the benefits of PS4's GPGPU capabilities.



Sony's first and second party studios share know how don't they?

Remember that Cerny said devs will get more out of the PS4 in year 3 and 4, and the amazing looking The Tomorrow Children and Uncharted 4 are only year 2. Truly a future proof console.
Heck Housemarque stated they began using the GPGPU abilities of the PS4 with Resogun. Almost everything to do with the Voxels was done through the GPU including the lighting, physics, etc.

And yeah I've read many interviews that point to the internal studios sharing engines and code and breakthroughs with the other groups and such.
 

Man

Member
Sep 27, 2009
11,920
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I would expect Q-Games to have full access to anything Sony PlayStation as if they were 1st party (probably even more so than Housemarque tho I reckon they both have full access). They are a smaller super-tech focused studio behind many exclusive PSN titles not to mention OS features like the Dynamic Theme.
 

HiVision

Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,054
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Have you guys had any visits from the ICE team or any of Cerny's brain trust?
ACE use was one of Cernys big promises and you guys look like the pioneers, and I'm presuming from the presentation that the lessons learned will benefit future Sony titles.

I hope Sony give this major marketing, as its the first true next gen title I've seen, with nothing on previous gen that even comes close.
We took the challenge because several years ago right at the start of the project Mark personally asked us to use it, as other devs will initially use the simpler "PC" gpu pipeline. He wanted someone to try and use all the cool hardware he had spent years putting together :)
 

Percy

Banned
Apr 29, 2014
5,273
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Sounds great. I'll definitely keep an eye on the game.

Guessing it's unlikely to release this year?
 

Stampy

Member
Jan 9, 2009
1,198
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670
I am really liking how this game looks, but I am somewhat perplexed whether the empty sky is a design choice, or is it still something that is work in progress?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
43,345
2
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The 'particles'/smoke - is that actually raymarched (volumetric), or just particle billboards?

If the former, will skyboxes and those sunsets have some nice volumetric clouds too? :)
 

Chobel

Member
Mar 26, 2013
15,673
3
515
I am really liking how this game looks, but I am somewhat perplexed whether the empty sky is a design choice, or is it still something that is work in progress?
The latter

There will be plenty of "skyboxes" in the release version :)
That's the easiest thing for us to add to, so we will also be updating with different weather and lighting conditions and the like after we launch.

We have some amazing sunsets in our latest builds already.
 

Footos22

Member
Mar 19, 2009
5,382
2
780
I am really liking how this game looks, but I am somewhat perplexed whether the empty sky is a design choice, or is it still something that is work in progress?
Look back a page or s, hivision has already said they have multiple skyboxes
 

DoubleTake

Member
Jul 24, 2013
4,974
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Tejas
I honestly cannot wait for this game. Amazing tech behind it and a breath of fresh air vision wise. Of course it draws some parallels with Minecraft on the mining and building front, but this has something about it that makes it seem so much more interesting, making it a game I actually want to play. Also, got me swooning over the mention of weather conditions lol.

Kudos to the devs for sharing how they work their magic and kudos to Man for posting!

2015(I'm assuming[praying] this comes out then) will be a year to remember for gaming.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,106
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Interesting to hear. Thanks for the response (it is seldom that a dev comes by and answers honestly and indepth about things like this, so I am quite grateful).

Shame about your exclusivity (wink wink nudge nudge) :p
Not a shame. The tech behind this making it into a game is one of the benefits of being exclusive to certain hardware.
 

Handy Fake

Member
Mar 2, 2014
4,502
3,942
680
Sunderland
We took the challenge because several years ago right at the start of the project Mark personally asked us to use it, as other devs will initially use the simpler "PC" gpu pipeline. He wanted someone to try and use all the cool hardware he had spent years putting together :)
I like you, and you may stay.
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,812
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660
Not a shame. The tech behind this making it into a game is one of the benefits of being exclusive to certain hardware.
Its a shame if you are interested in this games gameplay. Obviously not a shame for the devs from a techncial standpoint.
 

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
Apr 11, 2013
4,383
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This is my favourite thread. Props to Dylan Cuthbert for being so open in his continued baffling of my brain, and for proving Uncle Cerny is the best Uncle.

I'm not really one for online play, but this game looks, sounds - and appears to be -fantastic.
 

KKRT00

Member
Feb 13, 2011
14,456
0
0
Warsaw - Poland
Low occupancy doesn't necessarily imply low usage. A well-constructed workload can max out the GPU with only one wavefront per SIMD.

GCN is a really complicated beast. In some cases you can tell when it's not maxed, though, and the lone event at 18-19ms is one of those. It's not that big of a deal since the async covers it, so best to spend the time elsewhere.
Oh You're right! I read it wrongly, its not the GPU usage, but wavefronts usage.
 

fixuis

Member
Jan 17, 2007
980
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1,115
This game looks really really good. Very interesting premise. Hopefully the gameplay lives up to the hype.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,106
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Its a shame if you are interested in this games gameplay. Obviously not a shame for the devs from a techncial standpoint.
I know you were kind of joking but I just found your comment a bit ironic since you seem to be mostly interested in the tech part of the game. I'm not saying it's technically impossible make it on other platforms, but as it stands PS4 being PS4 is why it exists. And Cerny, lol.