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[Closer]

I mean, if we put on a "There was a Wii before this" glasses, we see that it was successful because it had games made exclusively for it that apealled to the user base, not the multiplat/downgraded versions of whatever games with a weird control scheme. To me, VR is pretty much the same. PSVR2 needs to have games with focus on it first and foremost, not as a second feature, to be a success.

 

[Fafalada]

PSVR2 needs to have games with focus on it first and foremost, not as a second feature, to be a success.

You know - I always agreed with that - but then things like RE7 happened which was substantially outperforming the rest of VR library for quite some time (we had data on actual VR players - not talking about general sales). Ie. yes built-for-VR titles are where the real magic happens - but big-IPs have been shown to move hw for VR (and SW), so having that as easily accessible option - contrary to every other headset on the market - is a competitive edge.
Whether it's one that will help PSVR2 sell well or not is another story - but at least they're not simply copying the market-leader strategy.

 

[Closer]

You know - I always agreed with that - but then things like RE7 happened which was substantially outperforming the rest of VR library for quite some time (we had data on actual VR players - not talking about general sales). Ie. yes built-for-VR titles are where the real magic happens - but big-IPs have been shown to move hw for VR (and SW), so having that as easily accessible option - contrary to every other headset on the market - is a competitive edge.
Whether it's one that will help PSVR2 sell well or not is another story - but at least they're not simply copying the market-leader strategy.

Sure, we had traditional games that were a success on Wii also. What made Wii run of the shelves at the start of everything were those weird game that people won't shut up about how awesome and different they were. I guess the multiplayer aspect of Wii made things easier and the singleplayer aspect of VR makes it different, but I can't see PSVR2 being a success being just a PS5 on your head with another control scheme.

 

[Crayon]

The two best games are like over 7 million each. Those games take and make the kind of money to be made playable in vr. This is not complicated.

 

[Ozriel]

Hot take here, but in my opinion Quest is the reason VR is slowing/stagnated, Devs are making games for that because it's the biggest seller (because it was cheap) but it's also low powered meaning casual games became the norm because it simply isn't powerful enough for stand alone for AAA games.
Standalone is the future, but right now it's a curse (I'm talking true standalone, not PC wireless).

Quest is probably the biggest thing that saved VR, tbh.
Many of the popular and beloved VR experiences don’t need top drawer AAA visuals. People want immersion. And the successful Quest 2 at least served to keep developers interested in the VR space while more powerful headsets stagnated.

 

[TheGodfather07]

most people just dont seem interested in VR. intrigued but not really interested. which is funny cause we all thought being inside the actual game would be a game changer. makes it even better that sony keep pushing it even when they know they aint going to sell a whole lot. they could have easily just scrapped it but they clearly want to push the tech forward. what will VR be like in 10 years from now?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Any update on how this headset is selling. Or how the software is selling? What does it take to be number one.

I feel it had some launch hype for like a week and it's literally vanished and now we just have a constant barrage of negative story's from media in the west.

I wonder how Sony actually get people excited about this thing. I imagine they need to work on a v2 that fixes the mura and sweet spot issues? But will they even bother if this thing has sold like a couple hundred k since launch?

Will Sony keep courting devs to port the games, I hope so.

I would want a V2 that's fixed of this current version needs to drop to 200/300 tops for me to pick one up...and I'm a VR fan with a pretty decent disposable income.

Also, please make it work on PC.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I feel it had some launch hype for like a week and it's literally vanished and now we just have a constant barrage of negative story's from media in the west.

Are you basing this off Eddie’s threads….?

Because Eddie is not reality…

 

[ViciousAgenda]

I have a familiar feeling that Sony will be dropping support for this a la vita. That would be a shame because the hardware is good.

 

[midnightAI]

Quest is probably the biggest thing that saved VR, tbh.
Many of the popular and beloved VR experiences don’t need top drawer AAA visuals. People want immersion. And the successful Quest 2 at least served to keep developers interested in the VR space while more powerful headsets stagnated.

In terms of number of headsets sold, probably, due to it being cheap it sold a lot more, but due to its inferior built in CPU and GPU the quality of games and the types of games (almost entirely casual) went downhill (in my opinion). Yes, top drawer AAA visuals aren't needed but it certainly helps when building immersion, top quality graphics aren't needed for flat screen gaming either but I know what I prefer, this is one of the (many) reasons Alyx gets so much praise

While not entirely accurate, I see the current state of standalone VR gaming as the equivalent of mobile gaming, it's great don't get me wrong, but I'd rather play full AAA quality games. Yes, I know you can connect these standalone VR headsets to a PC, but most arent, and so lowest common denominator and all that.

It boils down to this for me, casual VR games of which headsets like Quest are amazing at are reaching saturation point in regards to the types of games and experiences. Even Sony has fallen into this trap, although deliberately, with Horizon. It's just the same casual type of game we have played a million times before with a new, very pretty, gloss of paint. I personally have had enough of these throw away experiences, I want full complete sprawling adventures akin to those that are standard with flat screen gaming. I know the headset itself is part of the issue, but I don't care, I'd love there to be something like Last of Us in VR feeling terrified trying to get through the museum avoiding clickers in first person.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I love people ignoring that both RE Village and Gran Turismo 7 both saw bumps and are both on the list for overall PS5 games. So they're almost certainly having an impact among VR sales.

US
Gran Turismo 7 - Ranked 11th
Resident Evil Village - 19th

EU
Gran Turismo 7 - Ranked 8th
Resident Evil Village - 12th

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

But you even agree is stagnating because there is nothing new and major to play, well there is... GT7 and RE Village, both hybrid games

And both not gaining large interests outside enthusiast groups and not moving headsets. Which is why frims are downgrading their outlook for this year for VR because nothing is moving.

I couldn't give a shit about what those other headsets do if they are just going to bring those same casual games because they are still underpowered to do anything else

Talking about headsets you know nothing about or the specs calling them underpowered based on feelings.

Sony's strategy with PSVR2 was/is hybrid games,

So much so they launched with two, and had 90%+ quest ports, but were still going to pretend Sony's strategy was hybrid games? Sony isn't dumb, they know who they have to also get on board to increase overall sales to have significant market share, just like the PSVR1.

but it's Sony's first party/third party exclusives that will drive people towards their headset.

Which is no different form other headsets like Quest.

you have your opinions

No. We have 10 years of facts and 10 years of data. Everything you said is literally something you have no backing for or hasn't worked and you're pretending this will now changed based on nothing.

VR is factually down right now, this list factually has Kayak VR at the top along with PavLov and a bundled game at number 3.

VR is having a decline in units right now, and the Quest 2 is also declining.

Sony has never pushed any hybrid strategy, there is no evidence based on the past, or their current actions that is there strategy, you're claiming it is based on hope, just like your belief hybrid is going to sell headsets when it's not going to justify to most people who need to buy the headset outside the hardcore in online gaming communities like this forum, who can't sustain headset sales by themselves.

You are HOPING the thing YOU want to see will change things, without considering that you're in a minority. This goes for VR in general, this isn't a SOny PSVR2 thing as some people like to deflect to because they are incredibly excited for the headset, but this is a universal problem.

You know - I always agreed with that - but then things like RE7 happened which was substantially outperforming the rest of VR library for quite some time (we had data on actual VR players - not talking about general sales). Ie. yes built-for-VR titles are where the real magic happens - but big-IPs have been shown to move hw for VR (and SW), so having that as easily accessible option - contrary to every other headset on the market - is a competitive edge.
Whether it's one that will help PSVR2 sell well or not is another story - but at least they're not simply copying the market-leader strategy.

RE7 was not moving significant numbers of headsets.

I mean, if we put on a "There was a Wii before this" glasses, we see that it was successful because it had games made exclusively for it that apealled to the user base, not the multiplat/downgraded versions of whatever games with a weird control scheme. To me, VR is pretty much the same. PSVR2 needs to have games with focus on it first and foremost, not as a second feature, to be a success.

Yes exactly.

This also has been proven in VR numerous years now, people don't want same game with X mode, or spin-off C-tier game outside of a particular group.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Demeo was robbed. It’s one of the best games on the system without a doubt. If you haven’t played it and like turn based games, get it. It’s absolutely outstanding.

 

[Fafalada]

Sony has never pushed any hybrid strategy, there is no evidence based on the past, or their current actions that is there strategy

I don't think it was ever about hybrid anything either - but what Sony did push (that competition decidedly did not) is 'AAA' releases in VR. PSVR had more of that than the rest of platforms combined, and PSVR2 already has more in its first month on the market than most headsets saw in their first 2 years.
It just happens to be that getting more AAA on the platform can be achieved via so called 'hybrid' releases more cost effectively - that's where I think the narrative of that strategy comes from.

RE7 was not moving significant numbers of headsets.

That's harder to extract from data we have. But what I do know - is that in its first few months on the market - RE7 VR numbers were outperforming the rest of VR exclusive content combined, including some VR titles that were considered system sellers. We're talking about a period where selling 100k (units, not $) was record setting numbers for a VR title, and RE7 had VR playerbase in millions.
It would be interesting to know what RE4 did on Quest though - as that was a standalone release, with similar IP appeal.

but I can't see PSVR2 being a success being just a PS5 on your head with another control scheme.

That I agree - flat-conversions are just a way to get more AAA IPs to the platform, not a purpose in of itself.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

RE7 had VR playerbase in millions.

No that doesn't seem right. Capcoms own data had it at 1.1 million "users" I think people are inflating it's success. also we already had million sellers in VR by that time iirc. So I'm not sure it outperforming the rest of VR is true either.

Sure, relatively like other few bigger VR games, it was a great performer of the time, but the thing is we haven't outside maybe two VR games, have seen any real movement in adoption with these releases.

 

[Minsc]

Every time I've gone to the PS Store you can view the PSVR2 games sorted by best selling, and GT7 and RE8 are always in the top 3. Last time S&S was #2, but AAA ports are as popular as you'd expect. They're what shows off the hardware the best imo, until there's AAA exclusives more than once a decade.

 

[Crayon]

Every time I've gone to the PS Store you can view the PSVR2 games sorted by best selling, and GT7 and RE8 are always in the top 3. Last time S&S was #2, but AAA ports are as popular as you'd expect. They're what shows off the hardware the best imo, until there's AAA exclusives more than once a decade.

This is so obvious!!!!

Ediiiiiieeeee!!!!!

 

[Fafalada]

No that doesn't seem right. Capcoms own data had it at 1.1 million "users" I think people are inflating it's success

1.1 M is 'milions' though - ok maybe I should have said 7 figures - but the point stands

also we already had million sellers in VR by that time iirc. So I'm not sure it outperforming the rest of VR is true either.

No - no we did not. Unless you mean one of those, 'VR Title X broke 1M .... in revenues' click bait articles. And even that got the first one right around the time RE7 came out anyway.
Over entire 2016 - any VR title was lucky to break 50k. 100k were smash hits (not many were advertised either). The number one seller on Oculus store didn't even break 50k in its first 12 months on the market.

Sure, relatively like other few bigger VR games, it was a great performer of the time, but the thing is we haven't outside maybe two VR games, have seen any real movement in adoption with these releases.

Well, true but it's a bit of chicken&egg problem. Except for RE7, what other AAA conversion-title had a full VR experience - not some sub-mode that barely counted as a game (until this year)?
... Exactly.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

1.1 M is 'milions' though

No - no we did not. Unless you mean one of those, 'VR Title X broke 1M .... in revenues' click bait articles. And even that got the first one right around the time RE7 came out anyway.

RE7 did not sell over 1 million "users" until spring 2020, several best selling million selling VR games reached that before RE7 did, so of course we did.

Heck, even Beat Saber crossed 1 million before RE7 reached that number and that came out two years later. Then you have Super Hot and Job Sim.

If anything that showed RE7 was underperforming the other big sellers. Although it still did well but not well enough that you could say it was outperforming to the extent you're talking about. Back when it launched it wasn't really lighting up charts, that was a slow burn.

 

[midnightAI]

And both not gaining large interests outside enthusiast groups and not moving headsets. Which is why frims are downgrading their outlook for this year for VR because nothing is moving.

GT7 and RE V arent gaining interest amongst VR gamers and you know this how? How do you know how many PSVR 2 headsets they are moving? Lets at least wait until we see figures for both/either instead of guessing.

Talking about headsets you know nothing about or the specs calling them underpowered based on feelings.

It's based on what tech is available at a certain price point that will run as a mobile device (requires battery that wont run out in 30 minutes and needs to keep heat to a very minimum) and can run VR. These headsets standalone will be underpowered compared to PS5 and PC, this isnt 'feelings' this is logic.

So much so they launched with two, and had 90%+ quest ports, but were still going to pretend Sony's strategy was hybrid games? Sony isn't dumb, they know who they have to also get on board to increase overall sales to have significant market share, just like the PSVR1.

That's called having content, they arent going to release a headset with 2-3 games, come on, use your noggin. But look what Sony did release, GT7 and Horizon: Call of the Mountain, both games up there graphically with the best VR games ever released and one of those is a hybrid game. Lets see what they have in store for the rest of the generation (hopefully a glimpse of that whenever they do their next showcase)

Hybrid games... https://www.gamesradar.com/psvr-2-w...brid-games-like-resident-evil-7-and-hitman-3/

Which is no different form other headsets like Quest.

How many AAA games have Occulus and other headset manufacturers made outside of Valve made? (flat screen or VR) do they compete with PlayStation on that front?

No. We have 10 years of facts and 10 years of data. Everything you said is literally something you have no backing for or hasn't worked and you're pretending this will now changed based on nothing.

VR is factually down right now, this list factually has Kayak VR at the top along with PavLov and a bundled game at number 3.

VR is having a decline in units right now, and the Quest 2 is also declining.

Sony has never pushed any hybrid strategy, there is no evidence based on the past, or their current actions that is there strategy, you're claiming it is based on hope, just like your belief hybrid is going to sell headsets when it's not going to justify to most people who need to buy the headset outside the hardcore in online gaming communities like this forum, who can't sustain headset sales by themselves.

You are HOPING the thing YOU want to see will change things, without considering that you're in a minority. This goes for VR in general, this isn't a SOny PSVR2 thing as some people like to deflect to because they are incredibly excited for the headset, but this is a universal

Yes, a bundled game at number 3, so the sales of that bundled game aren't counted and GT7 and RE V cant be on that list because they aren't native VR games (which is stupid, they are still VR games, however plenty of PS5 owners who are interested in those probably already have those games, still, I wouldn't be surprised if they have had sales bumps)

Again, not 'hope' Sony have said this themselves (refer to previous link) they want to go down the hybrid/AAA route, that does not mean they won't also have casual games, obviously (heck, Horizon is casual), but that does not mean that their own first party VR only efforts won't be AAA quality even if still casual in nature but at the ease they could release hybrid games it makes it a no brainer. The difference between PSVR and PSVR 2 in regards to this is that for PSVR there were two SDK's, one for PS4 and one for PSVR which complicated development, with PSVR 2 its a single SDK. It's been designed so that developers can port games over to PSVR 2 easily, not just VR games but flat screen games also.

(actually, yes, hope, I hope Sony smash it out of the park with VR this time around, Last of Us, Killzone, Resistance, WipeOut, more Astrobot, more Horizon, Twisted Metal, Ratchet and Clank, SOCOM, Returnal, Syphon Filter, Warhawk, MLB, Destiny, Uncharted, I could go on, I personally want to see those types of games in VR whats wrong with that? and if I'm the minority then I don't want to be the majority)

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

GT7 and RE V arent gaining interest amongst VR gamers and you know this how? How do you know how many PSVR 2 headsets they are moving?

. Which is why firms are downgrading their outlook for this year for VR because nothing is moving

That's called having content, they arent going to release a headset with 2-3 games, come on, use your noggin.

Which I never claimed or implied. You're also linking to contradicting statements to Sony's words and actions. Just like people who keep using the Bloomberg article Sony directly debunked.

Sony's shipments of 2 million were specifically to have stock and push for a broader market. They wanted to avoid issues PSVR1 faced. They were clearly anticipating with their launch line up and marketing a broader range of early buyers to come to the platform.

Also in VR, ignoring the majority doesn't work, because the majority makes it so you get more of what you want, if the sales aren't there, Sony is not going to invest in VR optimization for a bunch of the games you listed. Market is too small to pull that move with VR, unlike console.